Internet Boldness, real life shyness...

[Papimojosten]

So, I'm new to this board, don't have many "real world" friend's, but am kinda excited to find a few more eccentric novelist and internal thinkers to communicate with. Anyway on to the meat and potatoes, I'm awful socially, I have like one best friend (entp) and few others with whom I share life and thoughts with. I have work colleagues but thats about it. Next problem theres a girl... at work... shes pretty in a North Carolina sweetheart kind of way. Not only that but the way I met her was we struck up a conversation.... them she went on to explain that she is studying to be a lawyer... I proposed out loud that she must be good at arguing. She said yes. She is also a practing Christian. So I decided to bring up a hot topic in that community.... abortion. We argued for 2 hours at work while she was gearing up to leave, so much to the point that co-workers were coming up to us to see if everything was ok. After that we've had sparse contact at work and everytime we do stop to chat it seems as through she walks off or wonders elsewhere. The talk, as I saw it, was very enjoyable and fun and I'm intrigued by her and ya know shes pretty too. I essentially won the argument but ya know.... anyways, I don't know how to rebound and talk to her, I was wondering if any other intps had advice, I'm not a social butterfly and have never particularly been one. I'm holding off the inferior feelings for her which when does kick in and activate its like I'm drowning in a sea of symbols that I don't fully understand and it usually ends with me poorly ruining or self Sabotaging whatever is happening. I've never really been in a relationship before, at least never a defined one with actual dating and whatnot.

Tl;dr intp doesn't know how to handle liking girl and social interactions, asking advice...

 

[onesteptwostep]

"Hey you're kinda fun to be with, what to have lunch/dinner with me sometime?"

Not so hard.

 

[QuickTwist]

Don't ever change.

It sounds cliche doesn't it? You're right it is. That said, welcome to the forum, you seem to be a pretty cool guy.

 

[Papimojosten]

Yea, I guess I get stuck on the ramifications of a "no" and how possibly awkward that would be at work.... She'll be there tonight when I go in... my natural prerogative is to start with something like that but usually end up stuck with a negative thought tree leading down a worse and worse case scenario. Also I have the kindergarten idea that if you show that you don't like a girl and avoid her (give her space) if she likes you she'll talk with you too or seek you out to speak with you. Or if you act like a douche' she might like you too.... at least seemingly, I dunno. Usually doesn't work...

 

[Jennywocky]

Yea, I guess I get stuck on the ramifications of a "no" and how possibly awkward that would be at work.... She'll be there tonight when I go in... my natural prerogative is to start with something like that but usually end up stuck with a negative thought tree leading down a worse and worse case scenario. Also I have the kindergarten idea that if you show that you don't like a girl and avoid her (give her space) if she likes you she'll talk with you too or seek you out to speak with you. Or if you act like a douche' she might like you too.... at least seemingly, I dunno. Usually doesn't work...

Basically, that's why it's good to just keep the query casual like onestep said. That way it doesn't come off as a dating commitment, it's more of "Hey, we enjoy hanging out, let's hang out some more and have some food too." Plus then she always has the option to ask you at a later time, if she decides she wants to grab a meal with you. You can always go for the more direct "Let's have an official date and potential romantic interest," but that's a more "yes/no, do or die" approach.

Girls are people too. If a guy avoids her, she might just think, "Well, he doesn't like me because he is ignoring me." Or if the guy treats her badly, she might think, "What a jerk." But you have to remember that the kind of bait you use determines the woman that responds. If you want a woman who likes you for being a douche... well, what does that say about her? is that someone you want to be with long-term?

It's less about hooking someone and more about finding someone who you actually want to be with. So if you at least are "you" when you approach people, the people who do respond are people who want to be with "you."

There of course are lots of kinds of people in the world, so some will respond to certain overtures you might not and vice versa, but you basically want someone you like being with and who you're compatible with.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

I really wouldn't recommend getting involved with a religious person if you are not.

 

[Jennywocky]

... boy I'm a shite reader sometimes. I missed all that junk in the middle.

Now that I read through that, it sounds like maybe that chance is gone... her behavior potentially is "nice girl Christian messaging" for "Don't wanna talk to you no more but don't wanna fight either". Getting into a two-hour debate that attracts the attention of others, about a sticking religious/political issue might not have been a great opener, considering she now "drifts" out of any conversations you have with her.

I guess asking her for hang-out time is still the best course, but mostly to let you know if that ship has sailed.

And yeah, having been in those circles for much of my life, it would depend on denomination and her specific view of religion in her life, but there might not be much room for a meeting ground in terms of an LTR.

 

[QuickTwist]

... boy I'm a shite reader sometimes. I missed all that junk in the middle.

Now that I read through that, it sounds like maybe that chance is gone... her behavior potentially is "nice girl Christian messaging" for "Don't wanna talk to you no more but don't wanna fight either". Getting into a two-hour debate that attracts the attention of others, about a sticking religious/political issue might not have been a great opener, considering she now "drifts" out of any conversations you have with her.

I guess asking her for hang-out time is still the best course, but mostly to let you know if that ship has sailed.

And yeah, having been in those circles for much of my life, it would depend on denomination and her specific view of religion in her life, but there might not be much room for a meeting ground in terms of an LTR.

shes pretty in a North Carolina sweetheart kind of way.

This is the detail that I caught at least.

 

[Papimojosten]

Well, I have a Christian background, being raise by my parent's who did identify themselves that way. That being said I'm more of a casual observer of that way of living because I find it to be full of foolish zealots who don't even truely practice what they believe, also though I have been on a few intellectism vs spiritualism debates because the two seem to cancel each other out. I feel the challenge of her faith would be good to refine it and at times I could use a "dash of sugar" to tge usually angry, bitter, snd subversive seeming thoughts I tend to spout. Back to the point though. When we were arguing she did continually say that it was just a spar and that we were doing it for fun to which I agreed and when people came up she was just as adamant as I that it was a friendly talk.... at times I catch her watching me from across the room, normally at least 7 times per shift, seemingly to many to be a coincidence, she doesn't speak to people for long but she does talk but usually ends up finding her own little corner. I think shes an infj I don't know, she usually has the infj look of sorrow and despair that seem to propagate that type. But whenever I catch her eyes she doesn't turn away. I've called her "bambi" regularly based on the look. But when I do go to try and talk to her without fail I only get a sentance in or so before so starts to move on. Its a tad confusing to me... I tried to tell her I thought she was intriguing and was gonna just ask her to coffee but she moved away quickly per the usge... I then said that "I was thinking about letting her be my friend", which I meant in a I don't make/keep friends very well type of way, but then she walked off, sarcastically saying, "what a pri ekedge that would be", before I could clarify that I'm not very outgoing and have few friends...

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Y'know everyone dismisses theological differences at the outset of a relationship and then they're miserable for ten years. XD

Judging by your description you've publicly humiliated her several times. She certainly sounds on guard, and that's probably why she's eyeing you. She's wary, not interested. I'd leave her alone if I were you. Her elusive behavoir is intentional, she's obviously 'handling' you.

but, hey, maybe I'm wrong and if you leave her be, she'll think it over and come to you. Then you'll know for sure. win/win right?

 

[QuickTwist]

Well, I have a Christian background, being raise by my parent's who did identify themselves that way. That being said I'm more of a casual observer of that way of living because I find it to be full of foolish zealots who don't even truely practice what they believe, also though I have been on a few intellectism vs spiritualism debates because the two seem to cancel each other out. I feel the challenge of her faith would be good to refine it and at times I could use a "dash of sugar" to tge usually angry, bitter, snd subversive seeming thoughts I tend to spout. Back to the point though. When we were arguing she did continually say that it was just a spar and that we were doing it for fun to which I agreed and when people came up she was just as adamant as I that it was a friendly talk.... at times I catch her watching me from across the room, normally at least 7 times per shift, seemingly to many to be a coincidence, she doesn't speak to people for long but she does talk but usually ends up finding her own little corner. I think shes an infj I don't know, she usually has the infj look of sorrow and despair that seem to propagate that type. But whenever I catch her eyes she doesn't turn away. I've called her "bambi" regularly based on the look. But when I do go to try and talk to her without fail I only get a sentance in or so before so starts to move on. Its a tad confusing to me... I tried to tell her I thought she was intriguing and was gonna just ask her to coffee but she moved away quickly per the usge... I then said that "I was thinking about letting her be my friend", which I meant in a I don't make/keep friends very well type of way, but then she walked off, sarcastically saying, "what a pri ekedge that would be", before I could clarify that I'm not very outgoing and have few friends...

Keep trying, she will cave.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I think it's best if you sort out your self-esteem before you try any type of dating. It seems like the balls in your court though, from reading her 'sarcastic' comment, so once your balls drop a bit (the other one) ask her out for food or a casual drink. By 'asking her out' I mean just a simple lunch. You at least have her phone number right?

 

[Papimojosten]

Yea, I tend to fluctuate on the whole self esteem scale... sometimes I think I'm the smartest person in the room other times I just would like to be alone to sort out if I am worth a damn.... anyways for her number no I do not, as previously mentioned my parents were conservative Christians so they thought homeschooling me was a good idea so to me asking for a number is personal so I don't tend to exchange numbers often....

 

[QuickTwist]

Casual is key.

 

[Nebulous]

Well, I have a Christian background, being raise by my parent's who did identify themselves that way. That being said I'm more of a casual observer of that way of living because I find it to be full of foolish zealots who don't even truely practice what they believe, also though I have been on a few intellectism vs spiritualism debates because the two seem to cancel each other out. I feel the challenge of her faith would be good to refine it and at times I could use a "dash of sugar" to tge usually angry, bitter, snd subversive seeming thoughts I tend to spout. Back to the point though. When we were arguing she did continually say that it was just a spar and that we were doing it for fun to which I agreed and when people came up she was just as adamant as I that it was a friendly talk.... at times I catch her watching me from across the room, normally at least 7 times per shift, seemingly to many to be a coincidence, she doesn't speak to people for long but she does talk but usually ends up finding her own little corner. I think shes an infj I don't know, she usually has the infj look of sorrow and despair that seem to propagate that type. But whenever I catch her eyes she doesn't turn away. I've called her "bambi" regularly based on the look. But when I do go to try and talk to her without fail I only get a sentance in or so before so starts to move on. Its a tad confusing to me... I tried to tell her I thought she was intriguing and was gonna just ask her to coffee but she moved away quickly per the usge... I then said that "I was thinking about letting her be my friend", which I meant in a I don't make/keep friends very well type of way, but then she walked off, sarcastically saying, "what a pri ekedge that would be", before I could clarify that I'm not very outgoing and have few friends...

Those are the INFJ eyes.
She does sound like an INFJ. The sarcasm, staring, confusing signals, all of that.
They're tricky. (I honestly ruled them off my dating list after being with one for a few months; I find them way too emotionally confusing and REALLY hard to read. I'm okay with emotional partners as long as they're straightforward and I understand what they are actually feeling. I find INFJs to have a million different masks over their true thoughts, opinions, intentions.)

Ah I feel like I can really relate to your dilemmas though
I'm thinking of my old girlfriend so much. So I guess I'll just tell you my experience

Not sure what your age is, but from what I've observed many INFJs tend to go through at least one period (usually starting in their mid teens?) where they sort of experiment with their identity by trying to put themselves into a certain group/ forcing themselves to live out the person they see themselves as ideally
Like if they identify as goth or skinny pretty fragile girl or quiet elven nature queen they will put an unhealthy amount of effort into presenting that way. (I know an INFJ who had a serious eating disorder, depression, horrible anxiety etc trying to fit in with the crowd she idealized herself as belonging in.)
I honestly have no idea when this ends.

But just keep in mind that they can be a lil touchy about who they see themselves as.
So if she is presenting as a

They also plot
Well it's not necessarily a malevolent type of plotting. It's just that they think about things in a lot of depth, predict effects of different roads of action, and then with this almost psychic image of the future that they think they have choose an option that will lead to results that feel right.
Which can make others feel like the INFJ is manipulating them, which she isn't really, most times.

I dunno if any of this is helpful at all I'm goin to sleep, g'night

Welcome to the forum btw. You seem like you'll fit right in.
I'm looking forward to talking with you- I've got some advice/experience in getting from awful socially to awfully social.
Anxiety tips, perspectives that help you feel comfortable
& I've had an up and down religious path but I'm currently Christian, so I can understand that point of view as well.

Yada yada.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Yea, I tend to fluctuate on the whole self esteem scale... sometimes I think I'm the smartest person in the room other times I just would like to be alone to sort out if I am worth a damn.... anyways for her number no I do not, as previously mentioned my parents were conservative Christians so they thought homeschooling me was a good idea so to me asking for a number is personal so I don't tend to exchange numbers often....

Then no need to! If you're not used to exchanging numbers there's no need to do such a thing.

Also, your Christian background shouldn't be a problem whatsoever- that commonality you have with her is actually a plus, since you have that one more topic to talk about. You can easily talk about your agnostic stance or talk about how strict your parents were and so on. If you think you're a decently smart person and if you were homeschooled, then your parents did good in instilling that part of knowledge in you.

 

[TheManBeyond]

Use ur weaknesses as ur advantages

*sells smokes and disappears*

 

[Papimojosten]

Well I'm intrigued by the whole possibility of the "golden duo" or what ever the internet calls the intp infj pair. Although I must say having re-read this whole thread about three times I already am enjoying the community, it's nice to be "heard", if you know what I mean. She wasn't at work tonight, we'll see Friday though... I'm pleasantly surprised to find someone on this forum that is Christian (and intp?) I thought maybe I was an anomaly, especially how often in my youth I tried to think like an atheist and would conduct arguments in my head regularly and would gladly take any advice you'd care to offer... yea I hadn't thought about using it as a common topic for chatting though, thats a good point... yea I guess I'll attempt some sleep as well...

*buys smokes, smokes disappear also...... anger ensues*

 

[onesteptwostep]

The whole atheism/agnosticism was so 2010. Since most of the Four Horsemen settled down and withered away (Dawkins, Hitchens (RIP), Harris (idiot), and Dennett (probably doing some philosophy)) it isn't really 'cool' or 'in' to confess your atheism as it was back then. Imo every self-respecting Christian goes through that atheism phase and comes back into the church once they get a hang of society. Imo anyway.

And yeah, welcome, hope you enjoy your stay ^_^

 

[Pyropyro]

Welcome OP.

Being an INTP Christian isn't actually that much of an anomaly since I'm one too. Although my brand of Christianity might be a bit too left leaning for western tastes. There are a lot of subtypes of Christianity and not just the Bible-thumping ones you find in your area.

Current western Christianity is actually more Greco-Roman philosophy than its actual roots. Too much time spent arguing than helping your fellow humans and make this world less depressing in my opinion.

I'm actually ambivalent on the whole atheism thing. On one hand, I have helpful, polite and intelligent atheist friends. On the other hand, there's those kids who think they are suddenly Socrates level because they're atheists.

 

[Papimojosten]

Haha, well I certainly don't want to be behind the curve... yea it seems as though I lean a tad more Christian, though I am bothered by most of what I see in the culture.... If I could be a boondock saint I would haha. I won't lie when I was younger I used my "views" to play devil's advocate to stroke my own ego and imagine I was Socrates but with age relize my own mental shortcomings. But that's why I'm gonna attempt college. I'm interested when you say "western" what would that entail? Obviously American, which I find American Christianity superfluous and so involved with the agendacized pushing "home of the free land of the brave" bullcrap to be biblical at all... And if we're following greco-roman how soon till we encapsulate our own desires and lusts till we eat our own empire out of being sustainable and watch in self misery as maybe the Muslims "sack" Rome (America)....

 

[Papimojosten]

Oh, btw, I'm 23, shes 22...

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

Being a dude is a fucking beautiful existence. If a woman talks to you for more than 5 mins (even it is about abortion), we immediately start believing we might have a shot there.

 

[Papimojosten]

Well I don't think anyone's demanding an update but, the weekend left me no better off than before, she called in sick fri- sat, then today when I'm thinking shes not gonna come in and my most ratchet looking day yet (didn't have time to shower before work, put beard oil on, ate at a Mongolian grill [all you can eat!], all that jazz) she comes in to work. We talked some but seemingly to no avail and I think my inferior fe is starting to kick in and usually when that happens things become a real shit show... shes flighty still but I did make her smile today so there was that... tomorrow I'm gonna tell her we got off on the wrong foot with the argument and either ask her to coffee or something of the like.... if I don't wuss out when the time comes... by the way I would have loved to pretend I was a gay chick as a p.c joke for the last comment ha

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

The whole atheism/agnosticism was so 2010. Since most of the Four Horsemen settled down and withered away (Dawkins, Hitchens (RIP), Harris (idiot), and Dennett (probably doing some philosophy)) it isn't really 'cool' or 'in' to confess your atheism as it was back then. Imo every self-respecting Christian goes through that atheism phase and comes back into the church once they get a hang of society. Imo anyway.

i hope your caregiver is aware that you have managed to access the internet

 

[Pyropyro]

Haha, well I certainly don't want to be behind the curve... yea it seems as though I lean a tad more Christian, though I am bothered by most of what I see in the culture.... If I could be a boondock saint I would haha. I won't lie when I was younger I used my "views" to play devil's advocate to stroke my own ego and imagine I was Socrates but with age relize my own mental shortcomings. But that's why I'm gonna attempt college. I'm interested when you say "western" what would that entail? Obviously American, which I find American Christianity superfluous and so involved with the agendacized pushing "home of the free land of the brave" bullcrap to be biblical at all... And if we're following greco-roman how soon till we encapsulate our own desires and lusts till we eat our own empire out of being sustainable and watch in self misery as maybe the Muslims "sack" Rome (America)....

I think the degeneracy of western Christianity came when the Romans declared it as their official religion. I really think that your culture wont fall since you still have innovative dudes in both humanities and the sciences. At least my visit can prove the latter one. Your engineer nerds here are innovative.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

Imo every self-respecting Christian goes through that atheism phase and comes back into the church once they get a hang of society. Imo anyway.

Apparently getting hang of society reawakens that fetish for feeling weak and sickly.

 

[onesteptwostep]

i hope your caregiver is aware that you have managed to access the internet

?

Apparently getting hang of society reawakens that fetish for feeling weak and sickly.

Is that supposed to be sarcastic? If not the theology in Christianity is much more diverse than you seem to paint here. Different denominations and pastors preach the Gospel in different manners. Some preach it masochistically, some teach in a Victor Christus manner, some preach it in a calm, Methodist manner, some like it hot like them Episcopalian African Americans, and so forth.