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intelligence is overrated, ignorance is bliss.

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sushi

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discuss.

Since large groups of people generally display lack of intelligence when they socialize, having intelligence can make you seem like an arrogant know it all. Better dumb down yourself and fit into the orgy of stupidity.
 

sushi

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Base groove= Life of the party.
 

Base groove

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Since large groups of people generally display lack of intelligence when they socialize,


No, obviously it isn't. I like now Ne tries to find an escape but this one is in my sights.

Premise rejected

I need some water. :ninjahide:

Since large groups of people generally display lack of intelligence when they socialize, having intelligence can make you seem like an arrogant know it all. Better dumb down yourself and fit into the orgy of stupidity.

Even if your premise is accepted, your reasoning doesn't stand up to rigorous testing either.

Specifically:

having intelligence can make you seem like an arrogant know it all.
Non-sequitur.

Better dumb down yourself and fit into the orgy of stupidity.
Non-sequitur.
 

bemused

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I agree that having high intelligence can make for an unpleasant experience- as the mind never stops scanning the environment and seeking patterns and hyper-analyzing everything - it sucks when you eventually come to the realization that life is inherently worthless and random. We as individuals have to create our own meaning. However a lot of folks are working tirelessly every day to make life less shitty: Science, Technology, the Arts contribute greatly to that.

But to walk around like some smug, haughty asshole thinking you are this uber-genius and everyone that doesn't share your interests is inferior is retarded.

Socializing is something that is informal, lighthearted, and free. Even ivy tower eggheads barricaded behind their gated communities speak the language of the plebs when they mingle. If you go through life like you're some automaton - you are going to have trouble relating to anyone.

If you're around folks that don't share your educational background or interest, you can still communicate with them and debate them with metaphors (what INTP or any NT for that matter doesn't love them?). Although that will make it hard if you have extremely narrow interests and zero knowledge of the arts and pop culture.

anyway- I think people with high intelligence usually conclude that theyre not nearly as smart as the number a standardized test indicates they are. Who actually cares about that shit anyway?
 

sushi

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I agree that having high intelligence can make for an unpleasant experience- as the mind never stops scanning the environment and seeking patterns and hyper-analyzing everything - it sucks when you eventually come to the realization that life is inherently worthless and random. We as individuals have to create our own meaning. However a lot of folks are working tirelessly every day to make life less shitty: Science, Technology, the Arts contribute greatly to that.

But to walk around like some smug, haughty asshole thinking you are this uber-genius and everyone that doesn't share your interests is inferior is retarded.

Socializing is something that is informal, lighthearted, and free. Even ivy tower eggheads barricaded behind their gated communities speak the language of the plebs when they mingle. If you go through life like you're some automaton - you are going to have trouble relating to anyone.

If you're around folks that don't share your educational background or interest, you can still communicate with them and debate them with metaphors (what INTP or any NT for that matter doesn't love them?). Although that will make it hard if you have extremely narrow interests and zero knowledge of the arts and pop culture.

anyway- I think people with high intelligence usually conclude that theyre not nearly as smart as the number a standardized test indicates they are. Who actually cares about that shit anyway?

What is this language of the plebs? Whats the point of fitting in if you don't enjoy the company. I only talk about things that are meaningful, can be anything- stupidity (does not have to be the topic I want to talk about). Also never implied uber genius, just not giving a damn about socialization with people are concerned with triviality and squandering their life in meaningless orgy.
 

bemused

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[BIMG]http://kristinandcory.com/img/38/38c/Goth_Kids_Intro_South_Park.jpg[/BIMG]



I totally read your post in that voice.


What is this language of the plebs?
My point was that people, yes, even intelligent ones, get pleasure out the small things in life. The intellectual elites brag about their kids, talk about sports, reminisce about the past, kvetch about their wives and husbands, and watch youtube cat videos just like everyone else. Not every conservation has to revolve around life’s big questions.

What is meaningful anyway? Don't we all derive meaning from an individual level?

And just for the record- the world elites, the guys calling the shots - love to get together every year for a good old fashion homoerotic, frat boy, pagan extravaganza- all the booze, cocaine, male strippers, and mock sacrifices you can handle. (re: Bohemian Grove)

You should lighten up a bit.


EDIT: obviously I meant conversation. Calm down you stuffy bastards.
 

Brontosaurie

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And just for the record- the world elites, the guys calling the shots - love to get together every year for a good old fashion homoerotic, frat boy, pagan extravaganza- all the booze, cocaine, male strippers, and mock sacrifices you can handle. (re: Bohemian Grove)

you seriously use the scumbags who rule this world as examples of intelligence?
 

Ex-User (9086)

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The intellectual elites brag about their kids, talk about sports, reminisce about the past, kvetch about their wives and husbands, and watch youtube cat videos just like everyone else. Not every conservation has to revolve around life’s big questions.

I think you might be deeply in the wrong here. How do you know they are the "elites", I think it is pretty difficult to tell which is what, also, most of the elites I know don't watch the TV and don't use the Internet (they do indirectly, they have others extract the information for them so that they do their stuff).
What is meaningful anyway? Don't we all derive meaning from an individual level?

No, some do on the collective level, some enjoy the composite of the two.
And just for the record- the world elites, the guys calling the shots - love to get together every year for a good old fashion homoerotic, frat boy, pagan extravaganza- all the booze, cocaine, male strippers, and mock sacrifices you can handle. (re: Bohemian Grove)

Again, as if it was so easy to tell that those guys at that expensive and "glamour" party are the elites and not the pawns.
 

bemused

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Wow

Okay- when I said intellectual elites, I was referring to the Ivy Tower guys that sit in think tanks like the Council of Foreign Relations. Their abstractions and philosophical musings are often turned into concrete policies. They literally (not in the cutesy hipsterdom speak, I mean LITERALLY) shape world policy.


If they're not the intellectual elite, then who are?


Again, as if it was so easy to tell that those guys at that expensive and "glamour" party are the elites and not the pawns
Unless you believe that reptilian humanoids are controlling the world from middle-earth; I suggest you do a little research - these guys ARE the world elites.



EDIT. I keep saying Ivy Tower, when I mean Ivy League.

Anyway- the elites I am referring to are IVY LEAGUE guys who think up some stuff in their IVORY TOWERS, and then governments sometimes turns their thoughts into policy. They like to schmooze too.


EDIT II: Hope that clears up the confusion.


EDIT III: yes- those scumbags are smart. Very smart. A lot smarter than us.


EDIT IV: I am not sure I know what you mean by 'collective meaning'? Don't we decide on a purely individual level what is or isn't meaningful?
 

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Just considering most people (?) are attracted toward people that seem to care or are fun to be around, then the claim can be sound.. "Intelligence" is more of a byproduct thing, it's extra, and not as essential - to a hive mind - as being fun and relatable, since "science" has a reputation for being "hard" most people don't delve, thus.

But there are multiple areas of intelligence... Someone can be more intelligent in social situations, which can be valued, but it can also be limited due to insufficiencies in other areas?
So ignorance is only partly bliss since it's capable of possibly getting by without potential benefits of intelligence, which is overrated for adhering to certain values more people will be inclined to feel alienated from -- although it can aid in some ways the experience of life, which I suppose exploring is a default responsibility, which can lead one to, in certain societies it could be more likely, claim it to be overrated due to results, but someone would have to apparently be condemned for losing interest or not being responsible/work ethic, also intelligence could be defined as how quick one adapts to unknown situations, so a truly intelligent person who is adept at all subjects would have no issue adapting to a social situation in which "small talk" must be tolerated for however long


And lol @ the Illuminati having orgies.. They probably do, too. At the moment it isn't simple to tell which facet of illuminati that is, but one thing is perhaps more or less certain: they have control over large amounts of resource, or they ARE the resource.. Also, some original teachings of them/Freemasons seem to be proponents of particular spiritual outlooks that seem to be frowned upon by society in general/synchronicities; etc, unless I did something wrong.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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EDIT II: Hope that clears up the confusion.

This clears it, your elites, your view, rightfully so.
EDIT III: yes- those scumbags are smart. Very smart. A lot smarter than us.

It is arguably dependable on the information we (at least I) don't have. Or you mean smart looking? Then sure, a lot more.
EDIT IV: I am not sure I know what you mean by 'collective meaning'? Don't we decide on purely individuals what is or isn't meaningful?
True, however what I meant was that there are people who decide what is meaningful basing their systems of values on other individuals, people they love, people they fear, respect, etc. Also there are systems of values that include becoming popular, well liked and respected in the community, so the standards of meaning, for such an individual are dictated by the community, not by the individual itself (only a tiny part of what one realises/perceives), while truly, the root of the motivation would still be individual it is a base of influence that I mentioned (As in giving up your individual influence/meaning to socialise, commune, etc.).
 

Brontosaurie

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Wow
If they're not the intellectual elite, then who are?

they have power and they effectively own us. that's not good. that's not smart.

the truly intellectual aren't part of an elite. elitism is dumb.
 

Ribald

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discuss.

Since large groups of people generally display lack of intelligence when they socialize, having intelligence can make you seem like an arrogant know it all. Better dumb down yourself and fit into the orgy of stupidity.

I once made a post about 1984 and speculated on whether Winston should have actively been trying to be like everyone else all along. I myself tried to do this as a sort of last stand to fit in with society.

The conclusion is that it wasn't possible, at least not for me. It's like holding the tip of the hose for as long as possible while pressure builds up. Eventually I am going to explode. Every melt down I have ever had resulted from this kind of behavior, and I have had some truly epic meltdowns.

I imagine there are more to come. To me it is often a matter of finding new people who I haven't had time to judge and who haven't had time to judge me. While I am able to suspend judgment, I can communicate. With time, though, both ends of the relationship inevitably decay and a meltdown becomes unavoidable. In other words, I will probably get banned from this forum eventually. But for now, everything is pleasant enough.
 

bemused

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This clears it, your elites, your view, rightfully so.
They are concrete examples of real life people influencing world policy. These think tanks are filled with intellectuals, academics, politicians, aristocrats, wall street bigwigs, etc.

Just out of morbid curiosity- what elites were you referring to? The aforementioned reptilians? The illuminati? Satan? Aliens? The long lost atlantean ubermensch?

I am being serious. A sizable number of folks actually believe stuff like that. Are you one of them?
 

Ex-User (9086)

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Just out of morbid curiosity- what elites were you referring to? The aforementioned reptilians? The illuminati? Satan? Aliens? The long lost atlantean ubermensch?
Totally, as in, totally.

*Place a random reference to one of the groups here*

So that you can put me in the irrational box.

Obviously your model is so accurate, since it is yours, you can curiously ask me why mine isn't. Bad conduct man. Call me an idiot outright, waste of time. It is not something I would bother to discuss.

edit: Your response is a misunderstanding and a misattribution. I also did happen to refer to living people, what you do is called making a strawman.
 

bemused

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Hey man there is no need to get defensive. I am not judging.

I don't think you're an idiot. Hell I kept mixing up Ivory-Ivy-League-Tower for god sakes.

I was just curious. I just suspected given the tone of your post that you were "one of them".

David Icke fan? (just joking)
 

Ex-User (9086)

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Hey man there is no need to get defensive. I am not judging.
As I said, you can make as many assumptions as you like.

I did pick your post and so I am fine with being asked and picked in response. That's how I respond. I don't want to engage in a low information speculation.

OP: Bliss is overrated.
 

bemused

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what you do is called making a strawman.
My speciality.


Honestly tho that one post of yours did imply some 'secret cabal' of some kind.
 

redbaron

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Intelligence is bliss.

Ignorance and intelligence aren't mutually exclusive either.
 

Pizzabeak

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Anything along those lines is an Illuminati. There's more than one faction of those, probably.

Also, the Illuminati came out years ago, they don't care that anyone knows about them. And there are no reptilians, that's just obviously ridiculous.

See, it's synonymous with the Masons originally being secret, then more public once the church lost power, since they were executing and excommunicating people for being avant garde in regards to the church's authorities (Galileo), so that's why they were originally "secret".

so ignorance is bliss
 

Black Rose

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You don't need intelligence to be smart or creative. What you do need it for is to manipulate the environment according to your internal self organization. If you want understand instead of achieve they are not mutually exclusive. I feel dumb most of the time when I am around smart people and want to learn instead of be entertained. Only when someone who has the propensity for generating new ideas do I take interest in they must be contributing more than I am capable. The minutiae people get all upset about makes me wish I could rise above it all and someday find a grand unifying theory as to what the mind is at its most perfected state of development.
 

Hawkeye

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Intelligence is misunderstood.
 

sushi

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I once made a post about 1984 and speculated on whether Winston should have actively been trying to be like everyone else all along. I myself tried to do this as a sort of last stand to fit in with society.

The conclusion is that it wasn't possible, at least not for me. It's like holding the tip of the hose for as long as possible while pressure builds up. Eventually I am going to explode. Every melt down I have ever had resulted from this kind of behavior, and I have had some truly epic meltdowns.

I imagine there are more to come. To me it is often a matter of finding new people who I haven't had time to judge and who haven't had time to judge me. While I am able to suspend judgment, I can communicate. With time, though, both ends of the relationship inevitably decay and a meltdown becomes unavoidable. In other words, I will probably get banned from this forum eventually. But for now, everything is pleasant enough.

I entirely agree, most people would rather be sheeple than be alone with their own thoughts.
 

Rainer

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OP: It really depends on the group of people. Some large groups of people have quite intelligent discussions. Most large groups of people are stupid, because the general level of discussion in a group tends to get dragged down to the lowest common denominator in order to make people more comfortable.

I know that I've often been way too afraid of expressing my (fitful) intelligence. I'm trying to cast that off now, inasmuch as it can be done in a polite way. At least in the USA, there is not that much stigma against arrogant men. For women it is a different story :(

Ignorance is not bliss.
Intelligence + acceptance (of self and world) is bliss.
On the other hand,
Intelligence + excess self-criticism and -perfectionism is torment. I've been there too often to count, doubtless because of being a P/J cusper. The most capable xNTJs manage it just fine since they're so driven. making them scary to the rest of us, and often awful people to be around, since they apply those same standards to everyone else! Best to stay away from these kind of people if poss.

Honestly, the only thing that's given me much release from self-perfectionism is making communion with the Divine a great priority in my life. interpret how you will.
 

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Whatever the case may be on a short time scale, ignorance in the long run is absolutely not bliss. It leads to suboptimal decision making that can have disastrous results.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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Whatever the case may be on a short time scale, ignorance in the long run is absolutely not bliss. It leads to suboptimal decision making that can have disastrous results.
Disastrous results in the long run don't differ from the splendid optimal decisions.

If ignorance is convenient for that individual, then it is optimal for all this individual is concerned.

There are always areas where I will be ignorant, because of the amount of information and I am fine with making suboptimal decisions knowing that.
 

sushi

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Whatever the case may be on a short time scale, ignorance in the long run is absolutely not bliss. It leads to suboptimal decision making that can have disastrous results.

well maybe shit won't hit the fan for the indiviudal, life is random probabliity, and optimistic ignorant people attracts luck. and pessimistic people just know too much for their own good. After all we are all thinking about human problems, and those don't know it probably wont affect them.
 

Spocksleftball

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Since we are all ignorant of God (all none faith aspects), and some are happy with this lack of knowledge, I contend that ignorance could be blissful with a high degree of probability.
 

sushi

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its more like intelligence vs social skills debate. They happen to be inversely proportional.
 

Pyropyro

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You don't have to dumb down yourself or act as a know it all in large crowds. You do need to research about said crowd's preferences though and use that info to discuss stuff with them. It's kind of learning the dress code for the occasion but for the mind.

I'm pretty sure that being ignorant is very bad in my country. You'll either beg/sell yourself on the streets or become some politician's dog.
 

Pyropyro

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Dress codes are dumb as hell.

I know right. If I can work without pants on then I would (one of the things I missed about working online). They're but one of those annoying things that one needs to do to get to their long term goals.
 

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Ignorance by its very nature is bliss. If one is unaware of something one can't worry about it.

The only intelligent beings we know of (ourselves) seem to have taken quite some time to have evolved yet in the relatively short time we have been here we have changed our environment on such a large scale and have accomplished more than any other species (that we know of). So, intelligence is great when you have it but hardly necessary to be a successful species. Interestingly enough, from our perspective it looks like the pinnacle of evolution.

I'm reminded of a short story (SF) that I read many years ago in which a space borne hive species only activates intelligent units when it detects other intelligent entities in its vicinity. Intelligence was considered a waste of effort when it was 'alone'.
 

NSINTP

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Slartibartfast "I'd much rather be happy than right any day" ..are you? "Um no"
 

DrSketchpad

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My own mind is my favorite hangout space anyways, my intelligence / knowledge only makes my internal monologue all the more interesting and more meaningful feeling...

idk, depends on what your values are... :confused:
 

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understanding is more important than knowledge.
 

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understanding is more important than knowledge.

That is like saying energy is more important than matter. The truth is that one cannot exist without the other or it is really nothing.
 

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The concept of energy, as we have redefined for today, does not parallel previous definitions. So before this time, energy was called "chi." You just defined energy as nonexistent.
 

aerialview

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It might involve a type of intelligence in itself to appreciate meaningless or frivolous banter. :cat:

Laughter works as a form of stress relief and relaxation, so there is a purpose behind it. Be a serious pessimist your whole life and you may die early.
 

Grayman

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The concept of energy, as we have redefined for today, does not parallel previous definitions. So before this time, energy was called "chi." You just defined energy as nonexistent.

I don't understand.
 

^_\\

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The world is a shithole and whether it takes a hundred years, ten thousand, or a million to improve it has to because it's the only remotely acceptable course of development. If the world exploded right now you'd be putting a lot more people out of their misery than destroying worthwhile lives. A LOT, on an unimaginable scale.

To put it another way, Children are dying. Go along to get along doesn't work and never has.

*

And because people, in much, much harder times than these, spent their lives forging a better world for us, trusting us to do the same for those who would follow. There's people out there who are going to go through all the same shit I did, except there's one little thing I can do about it: when they look around they can see someone openly on their side, I can be the kind of person who I desperately needed to run into if I don't completely forget what it was like.

And if people look and see that there are people on their side less of them will give up, or not manage to stay motivated or declare that the world can burn for all they care: they owe it less than nothing. And next generation there will be more people who stand up for us. This is how all societal change occurs. A critical mass needs to be reached, and it starts with disorganised people with nothing to gain from it standing up for something because it's right.


And because the future is going to be very, very long: what we do echoes not quite in eternity, but in a much longer time than I can possibly imagine. Of course the natural bias is going to be away from long term improvements. I can't come close to making myself feel that scale but all the short term sacrifices are right in my face.




*I'm talking about the underlying attempt to make some attempt to preserve and improve standards. If that involves temporarily, or even permanently dumbing yourself down, to better influence people, all I can say is it depends on the circumstances and what you want if it's worth it.



edit: and fuck you for saying "life of the party." Pretty sure your problem with base groove's post wasn't that it didn't like dancing and getting drunk.
 
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