Int(p)eresting to be here!

[FlorisV]

Hi I'm Floris (that's a normal guys name in the Netherlands), though I have an avatar here, I never liked nicknames and have already posted some things around here. I was fascinated by my Myers-Briggs test result and the amount of information on it, for instance INTP YouTubers sharing their views.

I am curious about myself and how I'm different from others and have read a lot about things I recognise many or at least some traits from (in order of relevance): SPD, ADD, High Sensitivity, Aspergers...compared to High Sensitivity and those "disorders" mentioned, "INTP" hit closed to the mark for me although fo me it felt arrogant to think of myself as very "smart"...I kind of feel it's gratitiously used if somebody calls me that (or high potential), because it's not clear what they really base that opinion on, other than that I obviously think through things that interest me, like psychology. It's not really I am smarter it's just that I think about those things more while others think more about other stuff. And I spend more time on my own which is spent on thinking rather than drinking.

I have already felt I was around pretty smart people with great memory (which I don't have) here because that infamous end episode of Lost was explained in detail to me ;-).

Typical INTP I am quite a loner and at 38 I still struggle with being single, to find an answer to the question what kind of woman I really want and what kind of woman would want me, not having had much experience in that department. I'm spending much more time meeting new people the past few years but it's really hard to find lasting connections, although in the last 3 years I have befriended 3 "heavy thinker" women I met through online dating (which in itself I have grown to hate btw), great and very special people to me but there is a mutual understanding we are not relationship material for each other. These women also struggle with being single, in different ways.

As for my avatar D*ckhead well it's Philip K Dick the writer. He may have been an INTP as well but he was not much of a procrastinator and quite productive, also had 10 wives...very philosophical however and I am planning to pick up reading him again after reading a couple of very interesting French novels from Michel Houellebecq.

I don't read a whole lot btw but it's just that I'm more bored with tv shows and have been bored with videogames for about a year now. I have always mostly been interested in low culture such as comics, sci fi shows and what not but I do have a hunger for a certain depth be it philosophical questions or merely how strong an artist's vision shows itself in the graphics.

 

[Sinny91]

After reading your post, I just spent the last hour reading up on PKD.

Here's a piece by Terence Mckenna; I Understand Phillip K Dick:
http://www.sirbacon.org/dick.htm

 

[Lot]

38 and single better not be my future. That's 10 years from now. At least one serious girl friend before then would be great.

Why do you hate online dating?

Do you have high standards or have you found yourself caring about less as you've gotten older?

What have been the biggest pitfalls you've found in your dating experience?

Strawberry Fields Forever?

 

[FlorisV]

After reading your post, I just spent the last hour reading up on PKD.

Here's a piece by Terence Mckenna; I Understand Phillip K Dick:
http://www.sirbacon.org/dick.htm

Thank you for sharing! Cool that there is a connection between the two, although I cannot fully understand McKenna's article here, some of his speeches are brilliant it seems he combines poetry with vision and philosophy.

***

On a completely different side note notice how the character Re-el of the anime "Ergo Proxy" has similarities with Amy Lee on the Evanescence album Cover:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/Ergo_Proxy_Set_1_cover.jpg

If you're interested in PKD, that cyberpunk anime just may also interest you as it covers metaphysics, many androids and manifestations of an entity that is possibly God.

 

[FlorisV]

38 and single better not be my future. That's 10 years from now. At least one serious girl friend before then would be great.

Why do you hate online dating?

Do you have high standards or have you found yourself caring about less as you've gotten older?

What have been the biggest pitfalls you've found in your dating experience?

Strawberry Fields Forever?

Thank you for your interest. I will respond extensively (INTP style?).

0. As for remaining single, it is a reasonable expectation that if you do not change your life and your patterns, it will remain the same. It is valuable to reflect on what you need to change practically and how exactly you could do this. Be wary of how incredibly fast life can go. I have been single for 8 years now. Before that I was alone until 28. I do not blame myself because I needed isolation and escapism to discover the suffering parts of my self I was neglecting. And there was no quick fix that really worked.

1. Why I hate online dating?

In short, because real life is better ;-). With the exception of night clubs, disco's and bars though. I needed to find more suiting, laid back activities to meet new people, like walking, picknicks, all sorts of things.

Reasons to hate online dating:

1.1 Lack of efficiency. It's a lot of work and yields little dates for me, although this had improved. Eventually I got fed up with the strong market forces that pushed me to become an extremely competitive product rather than a person, although initially this has pushed me to improve my life greatly (I added more social activities and sports to it).

For more efficiency I prefer activities that draw more "open" people (rather than the closeminded, result-driven folks that dating sites attract) and have enjoyed meeting lots of women on activity sites, even if it didn't result in a GF, yet. An internationally known one is Meetup.com. I like board and card games but there's a lot of other interesting sites and activities for me out there as well.

1.2 I got fed up with how forced the internet dating game is: there is supposed to happen something magical in the first meeting and if it doesn't, there is no further contact. Dutch people can be too result-oriented that way. I like to get to know people slowly, gradually and internet dating has only allowed this with women who were open to friendship.I did get to know 3 heavy thinker female friends and appreciate them greatly. I am not attractive to most women and most are not attractive to me so ideally

1.3 I would be very selective and active on many dating sites but they cost too much money.

1.4 Devaluation. In normal real life a beautiful woman gets approached plenty of times, but not by over 25 men per day, because they do need guts and the right opportunity. With internet dating the number of "approaches" becomes multiplied tremendously. The risk that is normally involved with approaching is removed and therefore the threshold is much lower, nonexistent even. That you are the guy making a move is no longer special. It is unnatural and even some homely looking women can become too much of a princess, they feeling they can get anyone and way more demanding. Also it's much more easy to ignore you. Really I do believe that internet dating can mess up people and about 80% of the internet daters never find a mate online, also for the other reasons mentioned.

1.5 Internet is a cold world with not much decency because people hide in relative anonimity and can get away with murder. A lot of guys are rude on dating sites and spoil it for the good guys. But women can also be really cold and indifferent, especially if their inbox is flooded. Internet dating can make you feel you barely exist.

1.5 Boring, short profiles with an abundance of cliches. I love writing extensive profiles and long messages but dating sites are not really a place that can facilitate old fashioned romantic souls that belong to older times where entire evenings were spent on carefully prosed love letters. They belong in Jane Austen and Emiliy Bronte novels.

1.6 Last but not least usually the photo is more promising than how she really looks. Be particularly wary of those that do not show their (usually fat) figure but only their face.

2. Do you have high standards or have you found yourself caring about less as you've gotten older?

In fact I had been "downdating" for a while. It was interesting but did make me realise more and more what's important for me. The thing I overlooked the most was, believe it or not, looks. I really need to adore how a woman looks, she does not have to be a model but she must have something about her looks that I really like. With internet dating it is way more difficult to get noticed by attractive women even if you have written a great profile. Too many men are competing for attention and incredible looks are the first selection criterium. I look very OK but I am not the average woman's sexual fantasy.

My own standards have become more specific and higher as I have become more self conscious. I need a woman to share my deeper INTP thoughts with, somebody that encourages me to bring out my light. There is this chemistry with my female friends. Now, a more attractive body/face and voila ;-). My current fantasy life is inhabited by a sensitive, somewhat "alternative" but not overly eccentric, artistic woman that I've briefly met on an activity and I will probably meet her again in the coming months since she showed interest in an activity that I organised and will repeat (picknick+playing Hints in the park).

3 What have been the biggest pitfalls you've found in your dating experience?

All could be summarized by lack of self conciousness which you will improve by dating. Pitfalls are good to learn about yourself so I don't really feel a need to warn about them. But here's a few.

Fear of loneliness can push you into a bad relationship. It can be nice to have an "average Jane" girlfriend so that you're considered more "normal" and have a buddy to do things together. You can learn from experience so it's never bad. But it's important to find an equal (<>INTP). A woman you really respect deeply and love and want to sleep with (remain friends otherwise), sex is important and lack of sex kills relationships.

Loveless, casual sex seems worth exploring on it's own but notice how every human being really craves affection and appreciation. I don't know about other INTP's some may love one night stands but I don't bother, they cost me too much energy. Prostitutes cost money and need to match with you too, while unsuited to give love. Life is short however.

I believe in Michel Houllebecq's notion that economic liberalism has been extended to sexuality as he describes in his first novel. Some people are filthy rich, others rot in poverty. Some people have a great and varied sex life, others have nothing. Times have changed indeed but I do not like to look at things from a single point of view, as if everything is about competitivty and numbers game. For INTP's dating is a different ball game, with a much smaller number of suitable love interests. I need to meet as much likeminded people as possible. Not an easy task as they are hard to find. I did all sorts of things like philosophy courses and walking in nature (found no relationship material for me personally there). I would like to meet more artistic women but not with a halfassed excuse as I don't see art as a mayor hobby.

I do need to be faster with approaches, keeping conversations running smoothly and be less...perceiving.

 

[Sinny91]

Thank you for sharing! Cool that there is a connection between the two, although I cannot fully understand McKenna's article here, some of his speeches are brilliant it seems he combines poetry with vision and philosophy.

***

On a completely different side note notice how the character Re-el of the anime "Ergo Proxy" has similarities with Amy Lee on the Evanescence album Cover:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/Ergo_Proxy_Set_1_cover.jpg

If you're interested in PKD, that cyberpunk anime just may also interest you as it covers metaphysics, many androids and manifestations of an entity that is possibly God.

Thanks for that, I'll check it out.

In regards to the dating... Love (or something like that) will find you when you're not looking

 

[crippli]

Hi Floris.
Alcohol seem to be the best solution when it come to lovemaking. Although I do find intelectualizing it amusing. What maks you think you will sucseed with this approach? To me it seems to be an attempt to covert thinking into emotions, like water into wine?

 

[Lot]

Thank you for all that. I can relate with the last statement.

I'm very timid. The other day I got confused by a waitress and thought I was supposed to follow her. She then just kept walking and gave me a funny look for following her. So I just left after awkwardly standing in the middle of the restaurant, on a Saturday night. But I was also really high. Far too stoned to function in a busy environment. If I wasn't high I probably wouldn't have chosen that place to eat at. Sushi and japanese grill sounded like a good idea.

So approaching women in any kind of, I guess sexual way, is really hard for me. Even when sober, especially when I'm sober. Unless the woman is chasing me. Then their is less pressure, but, still once it's gets to the initiating intimacy part, I'm at a complete lose of what to do. Then I over think everything and miss good opportunities.

The decision making side of me really wants some hard proof before putting effort into emotional stuff, that leaves me vulnerable to rejection. Or in more accurate terms, I'm being a coward (little bitch). I have my confident periods, but I'm not sure why I waste them not doing anything, or not following up with romantic endeavors. And when women, and a few men, get really sexually aggressive with me, it freaks me out. Because I can't wrap my head around it. Everything just moves too fast for my feelings and desires to be known. So I flee or I'm indecisive, which has the same result as fleeing. Also it feels cheap, especially when men try to get with me. They are very pushy and often forget that a few compliments isn't enough to get into someone's pants. Or their approach reminds me of mine, and I think less of them lol. I've learned a lot about myself by getting hit on by men.

It's taken me almost an hour to write this my attention span has shortened and I'm not sure where I was going with all this. Welcome to the forum. I like the way you organize ideas.

 

[Sinny91]

It's just occurred to me that so far I've only read male INTP accounts of being sexually shy/unsure..
Is it the same for INTP women?

 

[Pyropyro]

Welcome FlorisV

 

[FlorisV]

Thanks for that, I'll check it out.

In regards to the dating... Love (or something like that) will find you when you're not looking

Or not. It really depends.

Yes it could find you, but unless super lucky or attractive, only when you create much more opportunity for that than the average person, meeting a whole lot of new people in a laid back setting. Less people match with an INTP than say, with an ESFJ. While the social activities cost more energy. Not wanting children myself is also a gigantic dealbreaker in my case. It seems an impossible task to ever let love find me but I am trying.

And beware of the manipulative types that see your childlike sensitivity through your thick walls of rationality...

 

[FlorisV]

It's just occurred to me that so far I've only read male INTP accounts of being sexually shy/unsure..
Is it the same for INTP women?

I honestly don't believe INTP males to be sexually shy/unsure. Be careful not to confuse sexual shyness/insecurity with inexperience/overthinking, rather than actual fear of intimacy. I have almost never been nervous on a date. For a lot of guys it 's just impossible to attract any woman if they're on automatic INTPilot, too rational and in their heads.

And from what I've seen from female INTP YouTubers, did not seem so sexually shy or unsure either. I did think some of these girls could be kind of weird to the point where it made me uncomfortable...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XpI-UWyrmI

 

[FlorisV]

Hi Floris.
Alcohol seem to be the best solution when it come to lovemaking. Although I do find intelectualizing it amusing. What maks you think you will sucseed with this approach? To me it seems to be an attempt to covert thinking into emotions, like water into wine?

You go with whatever works for you.

It's an amusing metaphor but alcohol does all sorts of things with people, depending on the person. Some get violent, others do crazy things. I tend to get loud, nauseous and lose my physical balance. But I cannot stand the taste of alcohol. If I must drink it, let it be in a very sweet mix and let it be very affordable unlike cocktails and not too strong. But of course, I am not obliged to drink alcohol so I really don't care about it.

In my INTP arrogance I tend to view alcohol as a loser's substitute for a real solution because of all the bad side effects. There should be better, more solid ways to let go than liquid courage. I'm better off learning to feel more, consciously. If enabled to try it out (finding an openminded mate) I would be into experimenting with tantric sex and that sort of thing.