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Inner extravert

MichiganJFrog

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Does the inner extravert really exist? I feel like I have been trying to play the extravert in order to lead a project at school, and I'm quite certain it's turned me into an overbearing jerk, while also accomplishing next to nothing. I am going to try just being real from now on and seeing where that gets me.
 

Pyropyro

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Does the inner extravert really exist? I feel like I have been trying to play the extravert in order to lead a project at school, and I'm quite certain it's turned me into an overbearing jerk, while also accomplishing next to nothing. I am going to try just being real from now on and seeing where that gets me.

I think you're using your shadow ESFJ that's why you're drained. I agree on your resolution though :)
 

MichiganJFrog

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I think you're using your shadow ESFJ that's why you're drained.

Drained, spent, fried...you nailed it, pyro. So is there a limit to how long you should expose this ESFJ to direct sunlight? Is it like Clark Kent and Superman, or Hayata and Ultraman? :confused:
 

Pyropyro

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Drained, spent, fried...you nailed it, pyro. So is there a limit to how long you should expose this ESFJ to direct sunlight? Is it like Clark Kent and Superman, or Hayata and Ultraman? :confused:

The less exposure the better. I think shadow exposure is more like holding your breath. The time exposing your shadow is better spent developing your other aspects, the Ne, the Fe and the Si
 

EyeSeeCold

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Any type can experience Extraversion or Introversion.

A habitual inward turning of the libido = Introvert
A habitual outward turning of the libido = Extravert



My personal observations:
ESTJ ← INTJ → ENFJ
ENFP ← INTP → ESTP
 

xbox

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Hmm (INFP?<--) INTP-->ESFJ when it comes to task binges. You could just wake up one day and randomly clean the entire house when certain functions are acting up? lol
 

MichiganJFrog

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Thanks all. It seems I haven't completely alienated my project partner yet. I dialed it down a notch (is it still okay to say that in 2012) and that seemed to work. A great deal of staring at tabletops and such. This is as it should be.

Any good suggestions on where to look for incisive discussions of all this Ni, Ti, Fe stuff? :confused:
 

snafupants

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Does the inner extravert really exist? I feel like I have been trying to play the extravert in order to lead a project at school, and I'm quite certain it's turned me into an overbearing jerk, while also accomplishing next to nothing. I am going to try just being real from now on and seeing where that gets me.

Being real is usually a prudent choice.

There is technically such a thing as an ambivert but most folks show a preference.

As has been stated before, the best litmus test for determining which way one falls is to ask where one gleans energy from: social interaction or solitude?

I realize this is not necessarily the issue, but it may help someone out there in cyberspace to hear this information again.
 

Dapper Dan

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I think you're using your shadow ESFJ that's why you're drained. I agree on your resolution though :)
Actually, it sounds more like ENTJ to me. ESFJ means that he's using Fe and Si, which, though less developed, should come naturally to him.

Plus, ENTJs are the stereotypical overbearing jerks. ESFJs are more like... mothers, I guess.

Also,
My personal observations:
ESTJ ← INTJ → ENFJ
ENFP ← INTP → ESTP
I don't get what this is supposed to mean, lol.
 

EyeSeeCold

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I don't get what this is supposed to mean, lol.

Arrows show the direction of movement.

ESTJ ← INTJ → ENFJ

INTJ transitions between sTJ qualities like ESTJ and NfJ qualities like ENFJ.


ENFP ← INTP → ESTP

INTP transitions between NfP qualities like ENFP and sTP qualities like ESTP.
 

MichiganJFrog

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As has been stated before, the best litmus test for determining which way one falls is to ask where one gleans energy from: social interaction or solitude?

I feel like tonight I had that rare optimal mix of both -- solitude hanging in the square observing the skate punks, cramming thoughts down on my cell phone as fast as the keyboard would let me, then social interaction with friends I have known for years and trust completely. I realize such things don't happen every day.
 

MichiganJFrog

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Actually, it sounds more like ENTJ to me. ESFJ means that he's using Fe and Si, which, though less developed, should come naturally to him.

Plus, ENTJs are the stereotypical overbearing jerks. ESFJs are more like... mothers, I guess.

I know next to nothing about any of this; however, I did read on another site that the optimal match for an INTP is an ENTJ. My wife tested out as one, and we've been together for 24 years. By contrast, my first intimate relationship was with someone I'd consider an ESFJ. It was a thrill ride, but by the time it was over, I was quite literally out of my mind.
 

snafupants

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I feel like tonight I had that rare optimal mix of both -- solitude hanging in the square observing the skate punks, cramming thoughts down on my cell phone as fast as the keyboard would let me, then social interaction with friends I have known for years and trust completely. I realize such things don't happen every day.

Taking that example as microcosm of your personality seems dubious.
 

MichiganJFrog

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Taking that example as microcosm of your personality seems dubious.

It probably is. Today, I'll most likely be back to my pensive, analytical self.
 

scorpiomover

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I have this weirdness about my introversion and extroversion. My ideal situation is to be around other people, but to let them socialise, while I just sit and watch from the sidelines. Oddly enough, I miss being around people, even though I really don't like to be that much with them, and even seem to have greater motivation when I am around people.

A habitual inward turning of the libido = Introvert
A habitual outward turning of the libido = Extravert
So what? Chronic masturbators are introverts, while sex addicts are extrroverts?
 

EyeSeeCold

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So what? Chronic masturbators are introverts, while sex addicts are extrroverts?

hah, pretty much.

Jung had his own definition for libido, in translated form:

Psychological Types Ch. XI Definitions

Libido

In my view, this concept is synonymous with psychic energy [63]. Psychic energy is the intensity of the psychic process—its psychological value. By this I do not mean to imply any imparted value, whether moral, æsthetic, or intellectual; the psychological value is simply conditioned by its determining power, which is manifested in definite psychic operations ('effects'). Neither do I understand libido as a psychic force, a misunderstanding that has led many critics astray. I do not hypostasize the concept of energy, but employ it as a concept denoting intensity or value. The question as to whether or no a specific psychic force exists has nothing to do with the concept of libido.

Frequently I employ the expression libido promiscuously with 'energy'. My justification for calling psychic energy libido has been fully gone into in the works referred to in the footnote.
 

scorpiomover

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^ Ps direct their energy within, to adapt themselves to the world without. Js direct their energy without, to adapt the world without to their inner desires.

From what I see, Extroverts try and use others as a medium for their goals, while Introverts use themselves as their medium.
 

EyeSeeCold

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If you're interested I can post his other translated meanings of terms.

^ Ps direct their energy within, to adapt themselves to the world without. Js direct their energy without, to adapt the world without to their inner desires.
If P = Inward Energy and J = Outward Energy, then what do you make of EP / IP / EJ / IJ ? What significance do Extraversion and Introversion have then in this context?

From what I see, Extroverts try and use others as a medium for their goals,
I've seen this mostly in EJ and NF. EJs reprising the leader role while NFs acting as catalysts for action.
while Introverts use themselves as their medium.
and this mostly in EP and ST. EPs being egoistically ambitious, while STs taking initiative and being pragmatic.
 

snafupants

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hah, pretty much.

Jung had his own definition for libido, in translated form:

Psychological Types Ch. XI Definitions

Libido

In my view, this concept is synonymous with psychic energy [63]. Psychic energy is the intensity of the psychic process—its psychological value. By this I do not mean to imply any imparted value, whether moral, æsthetic, or intellectual; the psychological value is simply conditioned by its determining power, which is manifested in definite psychic operations ('effects'). Neither do I understand libido as a psychic force, a misunderstanding that has led many critics astray. I do not hypostasize the concept of energy, but employ it as a concept denoting intensity or value. The question as to whether or no a specific psychic force exists has nothing to do with the concept of libido.

Frequently I employ the expression libido promiscuously with 'energy'. My justification for calling psychic energy libido has been fully gone into in the works referred to in the footnote.

That's Jung at his daffily abstruse worst.
 

EyeSeeCold

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scorpiomover

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If you're interested I can post his other translated meanings of terms.

If P = Inward Energy and J = Outward Energy, then what do you make of EP / IP / EJ / IJ ? What significance do Extraversion and Introversion have then in this context?
EJs seem to try to persuade / push others to do their bidding.
IJs seem to make up ideas, that they then expound on, and then expect others to follow accordingly, and when they don't, they keep going back to trying to explain to others why they are right.
IPs mostly seem to adapt to whatever is going on, but to get what they want, they act alone, often when no-one else is there to see.
EPs seem to just throw themselves into a situation with others, do what they decided to do, and then hope it works out.

I'd say that the difference between Js and Ps, is that Js do things to get others to act in ways that will get them what they want, while Ps just get on with things themselves, in the hope that the results they are hoping for, will get them what they want.

EJs differ from IJs, and EPs from IPs, in that Extroverts seem to act as if they are part of a group, while Introverts act as if they are acting independently of the group. In EJs, this combination results in them acting towards the group, or as part of the group, to get the group to do what they want. Hence, direct persuasion and pushing.

In IJs, they act independently of the group, but still wanting the group to do their bidding, hence indirect persuasion, such as by giving over rational reasons why their bidding should be the best course of action, and acting expectantly that others should follow suit.

In IPs, the P-ness of adaptation and the I-ness of independence, results in pure action alone, often with almost no-one other than very close friends having a clue what is really going on in their lives.

In EPs, this results in the same independence of action that Ps have, but this time, while still in the group, and still maintaining a communication with the group, giving them the conflicting behaviour of someone in a group deciding to do things within the group that the group don't really understand, but still wanting the group to be involved.

I've seen this mostly in EJ and NF. EJs reprising the leader role while NFs acting as catalysts for action.
EJs are quite pushy. They act ON people.

NFs work with people as a subject in itself. They think of people the way NTs think of machines, as things they intuitively understand the workings of, and how to impress inputs that will result in the desired outputs.

and this mostly in EP and ST. EPs being egoistically ambitious, while STs taking initiative and being pragmatic.
EPs get on with things themselves, while still being within the group. Then they let the group decide the value of their efforts. Because they are acting within the group, but acting independently of the group, this makes them seem as if they expect the group to follow suit, much as the INTJ appears to expect the group to do the INTJ's bidding, just because the INTJ says it is the most rational course of action.

STs are very pragmatic, because they work with things, and they stick to what they know, the familar, usually because what we already are familiar with, has already been investigated thoroughly, and we already know what things can and cannot be done with them, and how they work. So they can just get on with solutions, or immediately say that the thing cannot be done. However, they will stick to the tried and true, no matter if it applies or not. Put an ST in a situation where things are very different from what they are used to, and they go haywire. They keep trying to treat the situation as something they know.

Classic example: ST: "What are you eating?"
NT: "Shmeat".
ST: "What kind of meat is it? Lamb? Beef?"
NT: "No. It's Shmeat."
ST: "Oh. So it's lamb (made from sheep, sounds like shmeat, the closest the ST knows)
NT: "No. It's artificial meat."
ST: "So which kind of artificial meat is it? Lamb?"
NT: "No. It's artificial meat."
ST: "Now you're just trying to confuse me."

STs can get on with things by themselves, because they have an existent working method that deals with THINGS, and so doesn't need the input of people. But if you ask an ESTJ to bake you a cake, they will put all their cake things in their car, drive round to their friend's, and bake it there, WITH their friend. They need someone else there, to be part of a team.
 

MichiganJFrog

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EJs are quite pushy. They act ON people.

Is this true at certain times and in certain situations more than others? How does this pushiness manifest itself gender-wise?
 

scorpiomover

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Is this true at certain times and in certain situations more than others?
When they are threatened, or when they want something to happen, and others don't seem to be behind them on it.

How does this pushiness manifest itself gender-wise?
Gender doesn't seem to make a large difference. Women and men seem to be equally pushy in similar ways. The main difference is that male EJs tend to use their physical body as being intimidating, as well as words, while female EJS seem to rely more on threats and verbal intimidation.
 

CGULL

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I am an INTP with a decent extraverted side. I am quite outgoing with my friends but I am to myself around strangers. I find that if I drink a lot I become almost like an ENFP. I find myself drinking almost for socialization and not for the buzz when I do go out. Or maybe both.
 

IdeasNotTheProblem

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When I was bit younger I would go out to parties wearing a tight fitting denim jacket with matching denim pants. A Canadian tuxedo if you will. Along with a red bandanna plenty of booze and a healthy dose of Bruce Springsteen playing on the Juke Box. I found myself extremely outgoing, energetic and the life of the party. I also found that women would not only notice me but some even showed interest as well. I always thought of it as my "bizarro self". Now I think maybe it was the INTP shadow finding some sort of wormhole embedded in the fibers of the denim jacket.

My Hypothesis For: "Being The Boss"
INTP+Denim jacket=INTP shadow w/(Libido)=ESFP"the performer"+Born in the USA="The Boss"


Lets put this to the test. your local thrift store should have a good selection of denim and The Boss' older album "Born In The USA", if you don't have already, should be easy enough to find. Good Luck! and let me know how it goes for ya. Warning exercising your shadow in this sense is often very draining.
 
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