INFP using Ti better than 80% of INTPs...is this possible?

[MellifluousSky]

I welcome the discussion and YES this is a serious query...I'm INFJ fyi.

 

[Seteleechete]

Define "better", you can be superior at logical/rational reasoning and still have a preference for emotionally based decisionmaking/thinking/prioritization. But Ti implies having a preference for such logical/rational thinking over emotional thinking rather than it being a qualitative superiority of some kind.

 

[kora]

Sure, I think anybody can develop any function if they work at it, it's just less likely.
Also mbti is no science and could be complete bullshit

 

[Yellow]

Was this a study? Are you just using words? I didn't know that MBTI itself was substantial enough for studies of cognitive functions to be put to any real test. How do you even "test" for INFPs using Ti vs. INTPs using Ti? Do INFPs even have Ti in their stack? I thought that was INFJs. Did you mean INFJ?

I have more questions, but I'll let you catch up first.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'd like to hear what data led the OP to ask the question before investing in a response. Otherwise this is all just one more nebulous hypothetical debate.

 

[Tannhauser]

This is the problem with MBTI. The answer could be 'yes', because there does not exist any clear definition of what Ti is. It can only be described in terms of abstract ad-hoc properties. "It tends to do this and that, but it could also do something else".

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

i think what op is trying to communicate through that obscure Ti reference in the title is non-linear thinking. now, i could attempt to plunge into the rabbit hole of questions like "is that Ne?"or "whats Ti?", but i'd rather not for the same reason stated by tannhauser

 

[Architect]

Sure, and INTP using Fi is better than 80% of INFP's.

By the way, we pawn INFJ's on Fe too, you guys suck at emotional expression compared to us.

We're the emotional sex kings of the universe, but we sure suck at thinking.

 

[TheManBeyond]

Probably he base his claims in my posts

 

[DrSketchpad]

Firstly, Thinking in a dominant Feelers is its most unconcious function. If it works similarly to my inferior, an INFP is basically unaware of anything Te almost all of the time.

How about you? What is your attention to your inferior like? Do you tend to notice small details in your environment all the time? Or is most of the outside world pushed into your unconscious throughout the day? Especially when you were younger?

Basically, the INTP wouldn't really be an INTP or the INFP wouldn't really be an INFP for this to be sort of true. By definition a Ti dom is *dominated* by thinking. This comes at the cost of feeling being the most suppressed aspect of the individual's psyche. An Fi dom couldn't have "better" (that is, more mature use of) Ti, since it's basically invisible in the IxFP's mind most of the time.

EDIT: Also, an INFP would have a stronger Te motivation than Ti methinks.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Personally I think Fi is a form of Ti. With Fi you think in values, but with Ti you think deconstructively. They're much similar when you think about it, but it's the mode of thinking, i.e. thinking deconstructively or thinking from the ground up, that allows one to function to their full being, i.e. themselves. Both deal in abstractions, and both deal with reality as a concept.

But as for the OP, no, theoretically an INTP living to the full of what he or she is is by definition wielding Ti better than just about anyone else/type (this depends on whether we're also including or excluding ISTPs, but that's another issue altogether).

 

[marie]

INFPs uses Ti better than us? I thought they were inferior Te

 

[Polaris]

INTPs are better at getting drunk than 80% of all types when unable to express emotion.

 

[MellifluousSky]

Define "better", you can be superior at logical/rational reasoning and still have a preference for emotionally based decisionmaking/thinking/prioritization. But Ti implies having a preference for such logical/rational thinking over emotional thinking rather than it being a qualitative superiority of some kind.

"Define better"...That was my comeback, to which I received no reply. I think the assumption was that Ti bestows that qualitative superiority you mentioned.

 

[MellifluousSky]

Firstly, Thinking in a dominant Feelers is its most unconcious function. If it works similarly to my inferior, an INFP is basically unaware of anything Te almost all of the time.

How about you? What is your attention to your inferior like? Do you tend to notice small details in your environment all the time? Or is most of the outside world pushed into your unconscious throughout the day? Especially when you were younger?

Basically, the INTP wouldn't really be an INTP or the INFP wouldn't really be an INFP for this to be sort of true. By definition a Ti dom is *dominated* by thinking. This comes at the cost of feeling being the most suppressed aspect of the individual's psyche. An Fi dom couldn't have "better" (that is, more mature use of) Ti, since it's basically invisible in the IxFP's mind most of the time.

EDIT: Also, an INFP would have a stronger Te motivation than Ti methinks.

Well I have been a competitive cyclist for over 25 years (mostly indoor training) and my job requires a fair bit of Se monitoring. Even so, I would say no...Se distractions bug me, excessive or flooding details bug me, especially when I'm obsessed with understanding something. I find myself having to constantly re-check things to be sure that I have done them. Usually I have to leave paperwork within sight and reach or I will overlook entering important data. I have to "put them in my way". As I type this, I don't remember turning off the water faucet that was running just a few minutes ago. I boil the water out of pots constantly when I'm into something interesting. Se is magical for me though (when not under stress)...and I certainly agree with Nietzsche on aesthetics: "Only as an aesthetic product can the world be justified to all eternity." I definitely have a thing for beautiful surroundings.

 

[MellifluousSky]

Sure, and INTP using Fi is better than 80% of INFP's.

By the way, we pawn INFJ's on Fe too, you guys suck at emotional expression compared to us.

We're the emotional sex kings of the universe, but we sure suck at thinking.

Well I now consider myself pawned!

 

[MellifluousSky]

This is the problem with MBTI. The answer could be 'yes', because there does not exist any clear definition of what Ti is. It can only be described in terms of abstract ad-hoc properties. "It tends to do this and that, but it could also do something else".

And that is my biggest peeve...getting accurate definitions, because until you can define accurately, you cannot surmise accurately. Getting to grips with good definitions of Ni is particularly vexing, even as an Ni-dom. Regardless of nebulous definitions for Ti, an INFP has no reason to value their eighth function from the standpoint of healthy, holistic functioning. It would have some novel, isolated use yes, but not particularly useful where the dominant function order is concerned. As such, it's power to shape the existing Fi - Si framework seems questionable to me. The distinct personality is largely within the first four functions, at least theoretically.

 

[MellifluousSky]

I'd like to hear what data led the OP to ask the question before investing in a response. Otherwise this is all just one more nebulous hypothetical debate.

It was unabashed braggadocio iirc...which I considered unfounded, and for that matter rather untethered from existing CF theory. I was just curious not just for the perspective offered by Ti-doms here, but also of those not Ti-dom who have a good grasp on theory. Believe me...I have just a had a nebulous hypothetical debate...I don't really welcome another one so soon. Thanks for your response.

 

[MellifluousSky]

Was this a study? Are you just using words? I didn't know that MBTI itself was substantial enough for studies of cognitive functions to be put to any real test. How do you even "test" for INFPs using Ti vs. INTPs using Ti? Do INFPs even have Ti in their stack? I thought that was INFJs. Did you mean INFJ?

I have more questions, but I'll let you catch up first.

INFP...No study, I just could not resist picking at the assumption, being that Ti is eighth for INFP...theoretically speaking of course. Dario Nardi and a few others have CF tests, but the scale they use is too arbitrary in my opinion to be very accurate. A subjective scale of 1 to 5 can be off by quite a bit, "especially" once you have a solid grasp of how each function is defined. You can see the functions through the questions, which taints the results imo.

 

[JimJambones]

Then they are not an INFP by definition. What makes them think they are INFPs?

 

[Ex-User (8886)]

stiupid question, stiupid discusion without reason

 

[Seteleechete]

"Define better"...That was my comeback, to which I received no reply. I think the assumption was that Ti bestows that qualitative superiority you mentioned.

No the assumption is not clear. An INFP at say 160 IQ(as an example) would reasonable be better at deductive reasoning/logic than a INTP at 80 IQ but the INTP would still have a preference for using reasoning/logic surpassing the INFP and thus be Ti dominant while the INFP would still be Fi dominant. The "better" when it comes to "using Ti" could then be implied as a quantitative over a qualitative measurement, due to it being a measurement of preference in cognitive processing and not a measurement of how successful you are of utilizing those processes.

 

[JimJambones]

MBTI presupposes that an INTP is someone with a higher than average intelligence while claiming that intelligence isn't related to type. This is a shortcoming of the theory.

People seem to miss that the INFP description is about someone who is creative, nice and means well, yet has weak analytical thinking. This IS what it is trying to say about them. The system is trying to categorize people in this way while saying it is against stereotypes. It is likely that an INFP with a better Ti than 80% of INTPs is not an INFP. They probably just don't fit into the paradigm, making them reason that they are both INFP and highly logical.