I'm not INTJ, I'm INTP.

[Yellow]

Hello, I'm new.

I joined this site because I tried the INTJ forum and it frustrated me, yet it was helpful to show me that I was mistaken. I am not INTJ, not remotely INTJ, and I am, in fact, INTP. Apparently, because I am tidy, and I finish my projects, the tests I took put me in the wrong category. Its not my fault I'm tidy: my husband is an ESFJ and a control freak. As for finishing projects, it goes with the tidy, somehow.

About me:
* I am 26.
* I have a BS in Zoology, O. Chemistry and Geology minors.
* I spent 2 years as a teacher (math and science).
* I was terrible at controlling a class full of rowdy children.
* My husband is an awesome teacher. He has English and Social Studies for 16 years, and he doesn't hate it.
* I am currently working towards a MS in Mental Health Counseling which I hope to follow with a PhD in Clinical Psychology.

* I have been married for 3 years, it has been an adventure. No kids yet.
* I have two cats: Buttecup and Lily. They are maniacs.
* My parents are INFJ and ENTJ, so I was on my own to learn my limited social skills growing up.
* My husband is working on teaching me the art of small talk.
* I love learning about practically every subject. I eat books. I LOVE Rand, Daniel Quinn, Dostoyevsky, and Dumas.
* I don't care for sports, video games, high tech gadgets, or cars. I know very little about computers and I'm down with that.

 

[Ermine]

Hi, new. I'm Ermine. Welcome and hope you find this place interesting.

 

[GarmGarf]

Yeah, being an INTP truly means (if the MBTI theory is correct) that the order of one's cognitive functions are: "Introverted Thinking"; "Extroverted iNtuiting"; "Introverted Sensing"; and then "Extroverted Feeling".

If the order of one's functions are the above, then there is a good possibility that the individual will give off certain evidences (such as they may prefer to start projects rather than finishing them, and etc), and many MBIT tests look out for these evidences. It's not the most accurate system, but it's quicker than explaining the whole theory to the individual.

Anyway, welcome to the forum!

 

[Da Blob]

welcome,
I used to be J but (k)now I am P
(hmmm sounds like the title to a song)
Personally the transition from being a J to a P indicated a maturation in my own thinking process. As I grew older I no longer needed the security offered by the J mindset but could afford to loosen my boundaries a bit. That being said the P to J ratio on the two MBTI tests I took were only 54 to 46 and 58 to 42... So P is not my dominant function...

EDIT; BTW I have really bought into the concepts of dominant and inferior personality traits. There seems to be more variations in human personality than the 16 MBTI categories can explain. However, including dominant and inferior, as personality variables expands that into 64 classifications which seems to reflect reality a bit better. From my POV a Dominant trait indicates a true strength, whereas an inferior trait indicates a weakness on that particular scale of personality...

 

[Minuend]

Welcome.

I thought I was INTJ at first as well. I'm organized and finish my tasks on time. But I'm also whimsical, constantly questioning myself and like to leave my options open etc.

I'm actually planning to become a teacher in middle school. I have no idea if it's a good idea. Time will tell, I suppose.

 

[uth]

I had a hard time deciding between J and P too. If you read many INTJ descriptions, they sound like me. But the INTP descriptions sound more like me. I guess the deciding factor is I am rarely completely certain about thing and am always looking to explore things at a greater depth. I think that's how I know I'm a P and not a J

 

[Yellow]

Yeah, being an INTP truly means (if the MBTI theory is correct) that the order of one's cognitive functions are: "Introverted Thinking"; "Extroverted iNtuiting"; "Introverted Sensing"; and then "Extroverted Feeling".

If the order of one's functions are the above, then there is a good possibility that the individual will give off certain evidences (such as they may prefer to start projects rather than finishing them, and etc), and many MBIT tests look out for these evidences. It's not the most accurate system, but it's quicker than explaining the whole theory to the individual.

Anyway, welcome to the forum!

Thank You. That is what brought me to the INTP conclusion; the functional anaylsis as opposed to the, sometimes, stereotyped tests.

welcome,
I used to be J but (k)now I am P
(hmmm sounds like the title to a song)
Personally the transition from being a J to a P indicated a maturation in my own thinking process. As I grew older I no longer needed the security offered by the J mindset but could afford to loosen my boundaries a bit. That being said the P to J ratio on the two MBTI tests I took were only 54 to 46 and 58 to 42... So P is not my dominant function...

EDIT; BTW I have really bought into the concepts of dominant and inferior personality traits. There seems to be more variations in human personality than the 16 MBTI categories can explain. However, including dominant and inferior, as personality variables expands that into 64 classifications which seems to reflect reality a bit better. From my POV a Dominant trait indicates a true strength, whereas an inferior trait indicates a weakness on that particular scale of personality...

I think you're right. I have many qualities of the INTJ type, but the unique personality traits do not fit me so well. MBTI seems to be the most comprehensive personality classification system, but I wonder if it could be improved to include the nuances within each type. After all, it seems a bit far-fetched that there are only and exactly 16 types of people in the world.

Welcome.

I thought I was INTJ at first as well. I'm organized and finish my tasks on time. But I'm also whimsical, constantly questioning myself and like to leave my options open etc.

I'm actually planning to become a teacher in middle school. I have no idea if it's a good idea. Time will tell, I suppose.

Well, it is my experience that badly behaved middle school children are easier to deal with than badly behaved high schoolers. This is because in middle school, parents have more influence over their children and therefore they can help with discipline. In high school, those kids need to think you are the right hand of God because the behavior problems are usually beyond the parents' control by that time. I am not forceful, I space out too much to be consistant with rules, I am too easy going, and they just walked all over me. The only advantage I had, was they couldn't figure out how to push my buttons or get me angry like they did with some other teachers. Anyway, consistancy with discipline, and keeping the little buggers busy, busy, busy all the time are the keys to teaching happiness.

I had a hard time deciding between J and P too. If you read many INTJ descriptions, they sound like me. But the INTP descriptions sound more like me. I guess the deciding factor is I am rarely completely certain about thing and am always looking to explore things at a greater depth. I think that's how I know I'm a P and not a J

It helped me to discover my P side when I separated my actions from my reactions. I am constantly surrounded by J-thingummies and therefore expected to behave like one. When I am alone, and there is no pressure, I am rather P-ish.

Hi, new. I'm Ermine. Welcome and hope you find this place interesting.

Thank You.

 

[Black Pat]

This is three levels of interesting:

1. @ Da Blob and Yellow: It could be that INTPs develop "J" as a way of "getting by" in a culture that values accomplishment, and then later gets more comfortable with "P" as they realize accomplishing things isn't that spectacular. Oddly, once an INTP makes this realization, like Da Blob says, more possibilities for exploration open up and an INTP can choose where being more "J" is necessary and where being more "P" is necessary.

2. @ Yellow: "I don't care for sports, video games, high tech gadgets, or cars. I know very little about computers and I'm down with that."

I'm relieved to find out I'm not the only technophobe INTP out there. I don't have television, a microwave, an iPhone, a Facebook address, a video game system and I didn't get a cellular phone until I had to, and I hardly ever use it. My one concession is the Internet, but you can tell by my posting numbers that I don't use it very much. In fact, I write email, scan newspaper headlines, and check this forum out every few months- and that is about it. Anyway, it is nice to know I'm not the only INTP who isn't that comfortable with technology and computers.

3. @ Yellow: It is also nice to hear some kind words for the XSXJ crowd. Again, I was beginning to wonder if I was the only INTP who gets a lot out of relationships with ESFJ and ESTJ friends. Sure; they don't want to discuss theoretical matters or Doestoevsky, but they really can place you in situations ripe for analysis that you (the INTP) would otherwise not be able to place yourself in. (Also, for the straight male INTPs, your ESXJ friends help you meet women, easing the boring "small talk" so you can subsequently lean on your strengths. In effect, the ESXJ does the "small talk" for you and you deliver the substantive part. It works sometimes, and the times it doesn't work, you get something to analyze anyway.)

 

[Kidege]

Hi Yellow. Welcome to the non club of 26 yrs old INTP teachers.

I... would like to know what's so great about Rand one day. Cause I've never read a book by her, but what little I do know about her frightens me. (I'm not avoiding reading her work, though. I've just never run into one of her books at the bookshop)

Dostoyevsky and Dumas? Nice.

And.. I'll avoid the dithyrambs to my beloved computers.

 

[Jesin]

Hallos, and welcome to this forum, which I hope you will find enjoyable.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I... would like to know what's so great about Rand one day.

That would be nothing . Although perhaps Yellow would be up to debating that since no one else will engage me on that issue.

*looks hopefully*

Be prepared for some spiritedness or but I will not be turned into

 

[truthseeker72]

d

Hi Yellow. Welcome to the non club of 26 yrs old INTP teachers.

I... would like to know what's so great about Rand one day. Cause I've never read a book by her, but what little I do know about her frightens me. (I'm not avoiding reading her work, though. I've just never run into one of her books at the bookshop)

Dostoyevsky and Dumas? Nice.

And.. I'll avoid the dithyrambs to my beloved computers.

Kidege, please disregard IB's visceral hatred of Ayn Rand. Allow yourself to read some of her shorter works, like Anthem, and then indulge yourself with Atlas Shrugged.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Kidege, please disregard IB's visceral hatred of Ayn Rand. Allow yourself to read some of her shorter works, like Anthem, and then indulge yourself with Atlas Shrugged.

Au contraire my friend. My hatred of Ayn Rand stems from having actually studied some of her work and disregarding her pseudo-intellectual tripe. She may have actually been a self loathing INTP operating strictly within an intellectual bubble (a pseudo intellectual bubble). Her economic theory may have been the opposite of Marx but it had the same fatal flaw in regards to human nature. If anyone wants to start with a shorter work, try The Virtue of Selfishness. It's not a novel but it's short and if after reading it you still want to explore her mind further, then you will deserve to read Atlas Shrugged

 

[loveofreason]

eh... I'm thinking that true, proper selfishness is a virtue (that doesn't automatically preclude kindness as a virtue either), but I've not read Rand's thoughts on the matter...

does this mean that I'm a self-loathing INTP trapped in a pseudo-intellectual bubble? Prolly. Pretty much sums me up. Hmmm.


Yellow! Save me from this fate! Prove that you are sane, self-loving, wise and balanced!

I love your avatar... it looks almost like a type of Cornus, and I'm fond of those.

I have children... I can only offer you my suggestion. Hysterectomy. Now. You'll be glad. Damn those screwy hormones.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

You objectivist whore you

 

[Miss Led]

Welcome. I too tested as a J at first because of my following through and timeliness. I don't naturally come by that though, it is a self imposed training due to a chronically late mother that scarred me for life in childhood, and the fact that I work in a field of concrete deadlines...plus..I am married to an INTJ and he is bossy.

 

[Yellow]

Au contraire my friend. My hatred of Ayn Rand stems from having actually studied some of her work and disregarding her pseudo-intellectual tripe. She may have actually been a self loathing INTP operating strictly within an intellectual bubble (a pseudo intellectual bubble). Her economic theory may have been the opposite of Marx but it had the same fatal flaw in regards to human nature. If anyone wants to start with a shorter work, try The Virtue of Selfishness. It's not a novel but it's short and if after reading it you still want to explore her mind further, then you will deserve to read Atlas Shrugged

I read Atlas Shrugged first and moved backward....but I am not a fan of short stories in general, not enough character development. Anywhoo, I agree that just about every philosophy does contain a huge flaw regarding human nature: including Rand. The flaw is the acknowledgement of the myth of human nature. That is, they all assume that their philosophies would work, if only people were better. Only, people aren't better, and they can't be made to be better. People are people, not some flawed creatures or condemned sinners. You can't teach scorpions to be better, you can't teach hawks to be better. Just because we are sentient, and can imagine a perfect world, it doesn't mean that this "perfection" would be possible by a great spiritual effort, or a mystical education that teaches people how to live good and fulfilled lives. We are just like any other animal, we are not flawed. Our world culture is flawed, our societies are flawed. Luckily, we are not humanity: we are just one culture that has gone out of control (Daniel Quinn, one hell of a writer).

What I do like about Ayn Rand though, is that she seems to get to the heart of what it is to be a rational being. She wrote the things I always thought but couldn't quite express. She gives us words of comfort in an illogical world. *Raise your hand if you are in love with John Galt* (well, its more of a man-crush, except I'm a chick). I have read and re-read Atlas Shrugged as a sort of security blanket. It reassures me that I'm not alone, there are people who think like me somewhere in the world. I will admit though, The Fountianhead wasn't all that great.

eh... I'm thinking that true, proper selfishness is a virtue (that doesn't automatically preclude kindness as a virtue either), but I've not read Rand's thoughts on the matter...

does this mean that I'm a self-loathing INTP trapped in a pseudo-intellectual bubble? Prolly. Pretty much sums me up. Hmmm.


Yellow! Save me from this fate! Prove that you are sane, self-loving, wise and balanced!

I love your avatar... it looks almost like a type of Cornus, and I'm fond of those.

I have children... I can only offer you my suggestion. Hysterectomy. Now. You'll be glad. Damn those screwy hormones.

True and proper selfishenss is very much a virtue. If you truely have your own best interests in mind, then you will, in turn, be serving the interests of other, truely selfish people. Kindness should not be seen as a charity or be given in pity. Kindness is something you give to the people you care about because you enjoy making them happy, or helping them out. One of Rand's best clarifications (though they are all good) is that you would die to save someone you love, because it is your decision and you don't want them to die. However you cannot live for anyone, and anyone who would ask it of you is no better than a murderer because it would crush your spirit.

My avatar is an Ansel Adams photo and I'm a huge fan of dogwoods too. I had a forest for a back yard growing up and scattered amongst the evergreens were dogwoods.

Yeah, my husband is turning 40 soon and so his biological clock has gone from ticking to all out screaming. I'm not too worried though. I just know that if we have a girl, for the love of all that is holy, she needs to be more like him than me, or he will die from stress when she hits her teens. I just flat-out don't want a girl for fear that it would be a vapid, screamy thing.. I couldn't handle that. A boy like me would be fine... I am just trying to figure out where to submit my blueprints.....

 

[INTPINFP]

Im very messy.

 

[Yellow]

Im very messy.

Well I am too, kinda, which means I have to spend a ton of time cleaning up. I am naturally inclined to leave things around and not worry about clutter. Then I have to retrace my steps, cleaning up after myself, cursing myself for not having taken care of the mess as I went along. It's like I am my own naggy mother... or something .

 

[INTPINFP]

ya my mother is like that too, annoys the crap outta me, if one thing is not perfectly parralel or if there is a crumb on the floor she gets angry

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

@Yellow.

I so agree with you about Daniel Quinn. Ishmael is my bible and that gorilla is my Jesus.

Okay, maybe not but it's great anyway.

You've highlighted one of my two main problems with Rand. To be honest, I don't hate a majority of her ideas but since the other aspect of her beliefs was her devotion to unfettered capitalism, I come out strongly against her (also to yank truthseekers chain a little ). I realise it's her way of reacting to circumstances in her homeland going from Czarist to Lenin but to me the reaction seemed like moving to the north pole to escape the heat of the equator. I felt she took promising notions and reached unsupported or unsubstantiated claims. Her notion of rationality is actually not too shabby. I like the notion of reality existing outside the realm of consciouness.

However her views on mans nature ("Man's only nature is to not have a nature") is to me a foundational flaw. If the foundation is flawed, the house usually doesn't stand.

btw, The Virtue of Selfishness isn't short stories. I'm not sure if your mention of short stories was in relation to that. If not, oops....

Lastly, if I met a real life John Galt, I would find the thickest part of his skull and stab him there with a kitchen knife, making sure to release the handle as I do to get that thumpthumpthump sound of the rattling blade.

 

[Ermine]

Lastly, if I met a real life John Galt, I would find the thickest part of his skull and stab him there with a kitchen knife, making sure to release the handle as I do to get that thumpthumpthump sound of the rattling blade.

I occasionally think about how I would react to a real life Galt. While I like some of what he stands for (self sufficiency and rationality), it would be maddening talking to him. He probably wouldn't take me seriously no matter what I do.

 

[Yellow]

I so agree with you about Daniel Quinn. Ishmael is my bible and that gorilla is my Jesus.

Finally! You know, I have tried to get people to read it and they usually say they can't handle getting lessons from a gorilla. I'm like, but he's a brilliant gorilla! And I can't really toss the Story of B at most people because I'm surrounded by christians.

I realise it's her way of reacting to circumstances in her homeland going from Czarist to Lenin but to me the reaction seemed like moving to the north pole to escape the heat of the equator.

I agree with you there. I started reading the book for a scholarship essay, and I was kind of turned off by her paranoia, but I had to keep reading because I had to write about the "Robinhood" bit which was in the back half. However, I was converted by the clarity of thought, especially regarding selfishness, the whole "check your premises, there are no contradictions" thing and the views on sacrifice and religion. Again, it was like she was saying what I always thought but couldn't define. Being only 16 at the time, it almost brought tears to my eyes. (I will admit, We The Living did make me cry at the end. I was in public. It was embarassing.)

btw, The Virtue of Selfishness isn't short stories. I'm not sure if your mention of short stories was in relation to that. If not, oops....

Well, I was referring to the 'start small' approach to reading her works, but it's all good.

Lastly, if I met a real life John Galt, I would find the thickest part of his skull and stab him there with a kitchen knife, making sure to release the handle as I do to get that thumpthumpthump sound of the rattling blade.

Ha! that would certainly be inappropriate behavior.. a bit harsh maybe?

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Ha! that would certainly be inappropriate behavior.. a bit harsh maybe?

Since you are new here, you probably don't realise how tame that is.
It has a Ghandi-esque quality in comparison.

 

[Yellow]

Since you are new here, you probably don't realise how tame that is.
It has a Ghandi-esque quality in comparison.

Again, Ha! *note to self: fear the pig*

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

*note to self: fear the pig*

You will go far my young padawan

 

[Kuu]

>>> Has recently bought Atlas Shrugged. Had to get out of the country to get it in english -_-. It remains in the stack of "books to read" that is neglected until this month of hell is over.

Welcome. For you, a caravan of a thousand elephants:
x1000

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

>>> Has recently bought Atlas Shrugged. Had to get out of the country to get it in english -_-. It remains in the stack of "books to read" that is neglected until this month of hell is over.

Welcome. For you, a caravan of a thousand elephants:
x1000

The first time you read Atlas Shrugged you're allowed to skip the speech that's around 3/4s into the book.

(My dad has read the book 4 times... the 4th time he made himself some chapter-notes so that he could just refresh himself that way, especially when he was looking for a specific passage.)

 

[The Fury]

Welcome to the madness Yellow.

When I first took the MBTI (and the second and the third and the fourth time) I was told that I was an INTJ but after spending an hour on that forum it was obvious that I didn't belong there.

I fell in love with "Atlus Shrugged" and went through it in a week the first time I read it.

 

[loveofreason]

Ansell Adams? That explains why it looked too perfect to be real. He was one hell of a photograher....

And I'll jump on the Ishmael bandwagon to say that I too found it compelling.

err... I believe if you post your blueprints to Cognisant in Australia, he'll be able to whip up a kid or three to (very loosely) your design. If you're not too fussy about materials that is... he is quite deservedly our resident Frankenstein.


Dear IB... that's objectionable whore to you, my porcine undertaker! No pay, no more fun!!!


Please do excuse me Yellow, I'm pleased you joined our little carnival of horrors.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Dear IB... that's objectionable whore to you, my porcine undertaker! No pay, no more fun!!!

All whores are fun, even objectionable ones and if they don't except pay, all the better!

 

[Yellow]

>>> Has recently bought Atlas Shrugged. Had to get out of the country to get it in english -_-. It remains in the stack of "books to read" that is neglected until this month of hell is over.

The first time you read Atlas Shrugged you're allowed to skip the speech that's around 3/4s into the book.

(My dad has read the book 4 times... the 4th time he made himself some chapter-notes so that he could just refresh himself that way, especially when he was looking for a specific passage.)

Well, I'd agree its acceptable to skip the 50 something page radio broadcast lecture towards the end becuase you want to know what happens next. The other little ones aren't so bad... especially Francisco's speaches regarding money being the root of all good and self-esteem/promiscuity, oh, and the pirate's speech about robinhood... well they are all good, but yeah go ahead and skip the broadcast.

I did the same thing your dad did. I have a little index of my own marking the page numbers of all the lectures.