I'm being drafted to the Army!

[BitRogue]

But yes, you presented it very objectively based solely on experience and I thank you for that. But what would you have thought would happen if one day there would be an ambush on your convey? What would you have done then? You're going to have to shoot back, otherwise you'd be killed.
I simply want to take away that option from myself - I don't want to be in the line of fire or line of defense just so I wouldn't need to shoot back. I realize you probably support the same value for human life and probably had to go to the army out of no choice as I did... But what I'm basically saying is that since Israel is a modern country with overdeveloped drafting system (well... obviously - they draft hundred of thousands of soldiers every year) maybe I can avoid that.

Well, while I would have hoped that you would have been drafted into a non-combat corps like engineering or signals or some such, its not impossible that no matter what your role is, bad luck can happen and you stray into an enemy ambush. This is why you have to go through basic training irrespective of where you get drafted.
At this point, I'd like to clarify the definition of what you might consider murder. Murder is where you have a choice to make between taking someones life away against their will and you choose to take their life. Basically its a choice, but its typically premeditated, ie you werent forced into doing it. Now in your scenario of an ambush, there are a few factors you need to consider. First - Its either you or them. Second, you can still choose to disarm when you aim. Do not think that you fight Hollywood style where you stand up and spray bullets. Your rifle is in semi-automatic mode (in other words, one shot at a time, the trigger will not repeat, you have to lift your finger and pull it again) This means that every shot counts, and that means you must aim. If you aim, you might as well aim for a disabling shot.
But they also shooting at you, I hear you say. Yes. So heres where you rely on some of your ESFP team mates to draw their attention while you make quick sniping actions. But at no time do you simply just stand up and pretend you're a god of the battlefield. Stealth, tactics, camouflage and cool-headedness are what wins skirmishes and battles.
Do I sound like Im speaking from experience - hell no. I never got into a fight like that, but its part of training. You really do need to listen to your officer and retreat is also very real reality. Heroes generally don't have an extended longevity.
So I know your thoughts are based primarily on totally removing you from that situation. This is why I tried to get drafted to anywhere except infantry. Even as an operations signaller, I got to stay with the vehicle while the other guys had to fight. So yes, even I had those fear tendencies that you are displaying.

We were told stories of the old days that the signallers didnt have a long life expectency either. If the comms got cut then the signaller had to run and take the message to the commanding officer personally. I can only be thankfull for those 2inch thick metal walls.

If the team and the commander would have thrown the grenade atleast the commander would of came out alive but it wouldn't of been ethical. But they did the right thing and nothing good came out.

Hmmm, there is such a thing as tear gas. Also, we always carried around flash grenades (also known as stun grenades). Non fatal, usually most people dont know what hit them (even if they might have known what it was, usually your brain is reeling - 10 second downtime while your synapses reboot) and by that time its all over. Cuffed and taken away.

Also, I've checked if jail time in the army = recorded on the civilian file - no. It does not appear in your civil file. Means that you can get any job you want if for instance the "army" fires you.

Phew, to be really honest, I really didnt want to go to the army at the time, but personally, I think if I'd faced a choice between the two, I would have done the army anyway. I live in mortal fear of jail time. I think there are at least some interesting things to do in the army.

The real problem with ethics is that it's not very interesting for the worldwide media - but everytime we do something wrong it will jump ahead in titles ignoring everything else. When was the last time you heard on the news "The Israeli army faced a tough decision today but has made a progress towards ethics"?

Id hardly use the press as a concern as to whether to act ethically or not. The press go out of their way to find people doing things unethically. No wonder the world is in this mess.

for example there are many stories of commanders that ask for "coffee" as an order, if you disobey you will be jailed. I think it's an insult to make coffee for a commanding officer that is one year older than me.

Yeh, I agree, that does suck. In my experience you have a right to just walk away from that. It is not a military action to make coffee for anyone. You could try and reason with him and explain to him that if he'd asked nicely you actually might have done it, but you feel that an arrogant order that has no basis of military activity in no way demands a positive response on your side.

 

[stig]

Fascinating thread. Do you believe in the causes in which you'll be drafted to fight for?

 

[PINT]

This article provides evidence that Israel's military commits murders and war crimes.

Maybe the article's allegations are true. Maybe they are not. The burden of proof is not on me. It is on Israel's military. Until and unless they provide proof that they are not murderers, nobody should agree to join their gang.

 

[The Gopher]

Phew, to be really honest, I really didnt want to go to the army at the time, but personally, I think if I'd faced a choice between the two, I would have done the army anyway. I live in mortal fear of jail time. I think there are at least some interesting things to do in the army.

I agree about the jail thing I need to be free. Granted in the army your not free but if ever needed you CAN get free ehhm now illegal thoughts behind. I wouldn't be able to survive in the same place without Internet.

 

[Reluctantly]

So what ended up happening?

 

[Philosophyking87]

Noooo!
The last thing we need is another INTP wasted in war.
=[

 

[Nibbler]

I was in the American Army. I assume soldiers are soldiers. My advice would be to keep your head down & your mouth shut. The loudmouths and the "I don't wanna!" types have the worst times.

I was a head-down, shut-up person. I would get occasional compliments on my professionalism and respectability. I was mainly left alone because of it.

And be good at something that is safe. For instance, if in a fight-y position (heh), don't be the best bomb disassembler or they will rely on you to disassemble bombs.

Be good at the radio.
Be good at training others.
Be good at sniping (although this is a double-edged sword because enemies pick off snipers, but the demands are different).

Conversely, don't volunteer for stuff unless it's made clear if you don't volunteer, there will be crappy consequences. If you volunteer, it means you're cooperative and the lowly supervisors love to take bad advantage of "Me! Pick me!" types because you will make them look good. But I have a feeling being an enthusiastic volunteer for duties will not be an issue for you.

If you start off a general private, you will do a lot of guard duty and crap details until you can get more seniority. This is the most vulnerable time for someone with your impatience to accidentally rear its head and hurt you in the long run.

So in the end, my advice is to try your best to bear through the initial entry stress. Keep quiet. Don't volunteer, but don't be a complainer. Become an expert in something safe and in tune with your skills.

edit: Oh! This is an old thread I replied to. Welp, I hope all is going well and you've managed to stay out of jail. Good luck. And for anyone else going into the army against their wishes (usually because of family pressure), please see my advice above.

 

[Jackooboy]

Do what Nibbler says... Pretty much just do your time and don't complain or be a problem. Keep your head LOW...

Don't distinguish yourself as first or last... it can only harm you either way. Be in the middle of the pack. Don't talk about ideas... just exist and again, don't distinguish yourself in a good or a bad light.