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If I'm INFJ can I stay

Black Rose

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Very well, I don't wish to spend too much time sorting through your posts in order to get an accurate view of you as I'm a little low on energy; I'll take your word on this based on the fact that Fe hardly seems that unlikely.

Step one accomplished. :D But I never asked you to sort threw anything. I am doing that myself with this thread. Its good that your still helping me though.

As a matter of fact I think I understand how it could have appeared like you were using an Extraverted Perception function more prominently.
There was an instance of another individual on this forum, of who I suspect to be an ESFJ, using their tertiary Ne more readily in response to the Ne-heavy environment it was at the time, particularly in the part of the forum they frequented.
I'm doubting it's important to go into detail about why that is though as Adymus has outlined enough of it in his previous post
.


You both do seem to have allot of experience.

So what you're saying is that you learn best when you orient Tangibly.


Can you tell me why you believe you're iNtuitive/Abstract?
Thus far I've seen nothing indicating such; what I said about delving into whether you orient tangibly or abstractly still stands, even as I get a better grasp on your other orientations.

I'll even give you some definitions:

Abstract: thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances.

Tangible: thought of in reference to concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances.


Honestly, I'm leaning ESFJ more than ENFJ at the moment.

Si

is past and present oriented, wants little to change? Things are they way they are?

Ni

is future oriented, likes change? what could be should be considered?

Id have to say that I anticipate great changes in society because of technology and I want them to happen fast. Popular science is my favorite magazine. I like combining different ideas to make new applications in my mind. I see many possibilities for change in all areas of life and in thought.

If you need a dictionary to understand exactly what an individual means that could reflect back on your own incompetency; never should typology be put into simpler terms than it actually is, if it's not understood by an individual in its full, accurate form then they should not be utilizing it in the first place.

Of course most online definitions do not refine their definitions nearly enough nor explain them thoroughly in a logical order of occurrence, mostly they just explain manifestations of functions and ignore the process. Sort of like you're suggesting be done.

As well, Adymus I'm sure will agree when I say that you need to put MBTI out of your mind when dealing with typology, it will do nothing but destroy any actual understanding of what you're dealing with and fill your head with irrelevant stereotypes.


The MBTI I have not learned well enough. I base my interactions with you more on what you say than whats under your avatar. In real life I don't even try to type some one. Except maybe 5 times I tied to tell people about it. I told them I was not an expert but they should look into it anyway.


Two picture from 5th or 6th grade I would like to share.

[BIMG]http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/JeremyRexWilson/scan0301.jpg[/BIMG]

[BIMG]http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/JeremyRexWilson/scan102.jpg[/BIMG]
 

Words

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How unfortunate that he has an inadequate understanding of that which he's defining then.

Considering the current theoretical(not factual) orientation of cognitive functions, I am annoyed. Clear me on this: Typology is a high matter of theory and exploration, not something tangible and with one valid way(standard) of perception or logic. Your understanding may be different from mine, but that does not make it "inadequate". Unless, my logic is so visibly incorrect(more specifically related to my understanding of my own premises).

I enjoy your method of writing organization btw; It gives me this strange easiness of accessibility. Most visible patterns in writing are very helpful. The work you must have exerted requires praise.

I'm just going to throw this out there:

The MBTI tests are extremely inaccurate, granted, but in your case, ISFP seems a hell of a lot more likely than INTP.

Ha, that's exactly what I was thinking. Some sort of SP at very least. ;)

Bare Assertion Fallacy.(maybe it is not a fallacy but you get my point.)

How I wish people would explain. I'm sure Anime wouldn't mind. [the digression of topic]
 

Words

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Explain what :confused: Could you ask a direct question ;)

I am going to analyze the hidden social implication in this sentence(Fe). The emoticons, what do they mean? Am I suppose to take it literally? Am I suppose to clarify what I said?

Alright: I was asking the two to back up their assertions with reason. Notice their quoted words.
 

Black Rose

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Alright: I was asking the two to back up their assertions with reason. Notice their quoted words.

Sorry I misread your grammar. I thought you wanted me to explain something.
 

TruthSeeker

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How I wish people would explain. I'm sure Anime wouldn't mind. [the digression of topic]

Well, I can do my best.

Ftr, I doubt he's an ISFP. But SP? I could see that. Definitely an ESP, though...probably ESFP.

The reason why they believe that, I think, it is that his typing is frantic and wild, saying lots of crazy, seemingly random things without necessarily judging what he's saying first. That obviously points to extroverted perception (I have an ESTP brother who types exactly like this). The N/S thing is more of a vibe thing, really, at least for me. He seems to be more oriented towards the concrete ("I'm super awesome...yeah") and all that. But...that was just based on the few posts I've seen of him...and it could just be a "persona" he's putting on.

But then, I could be quite wrong...
 

Cegorach

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Step one accomplished. :D But I never asked you to sort threw anything. I am doing that myself with this thread. Its good that your still helping me though.

Mostly it has to do with my belief that I should properly gather all facts before putting forth too many suggestions, though this would often lead to stagnation in cases where it requires too much exertion of energy in order to actually do such to the perfectionist standards that my mind desires.

Of course, this rather haphazard approach I'm currently taking should eventually get to the correct result.
It'll just have far more mistakes along the way.


Animekitty said:
Si

is past and present oriented, wants little to change? Things are they way they are?

Ni

is future oriented, likes change? what could be should be considered?

Id have to say that I anticipate great changes in society because of technology and I want them to happen fast. Popular science is my favorite magazine. I like combining different ideas to make new applications in my mind. I see many possibilities for change in all areas of life and in thought.


First you might want to ask yourself: "How can perception be internal?"

And the answer is through a contrasting of a previously constructed worldview and new observations that have gone through a judgment process, for the purpose of creating some sort of shift in focus.

It's relevant to say that the best way to properly identify Introverted Perception is through explaining a long term process of which both Perception and Judgment are inherent.

Though I'll mostly focus on the worldview aspect of Si and Ni for now, due to not entirely being prepared to explain any furthering aspects of these functions as of yet. Definitions appear to require being eternally refined.

The entirety of the difference between Si and Ni all stems from the simple dichotomy of orientation between the Tangible and the Abstract (much like Ne & Se), however it taking part in specific aspects of a larger overarching process results in an evolution of these differences into more complex results such as orientation towards either the past or the future. Which I will explain momentarily.



Worldview

"How is a worldview created?"

"Exactly what is a worldview?"

"And where are the differences between Ni & Si within in?"


To start; a worldview is something developed throughout your entire life, it's like a large container of that which has been perceived and refined through countless moments and countless situations, and as it develops the more apparent its use becomes within an individual.

Even in young Ni or Si Doms/Auxs the formation process deviates their mind towards its creation through their Inferior/Tertiary Se or Ne; how else can one perceive when an important condition of their natural orientation has yet to be formed ?


In an Si the natural orientation towards the tangible evolves towards experiences or things that have already happened (the past) as being considered the most reliable source for further developing their worldview towards that which will best allow them to deal with problems, though as much as they orient towards the past they only do so so that they can properly prepare themselves for the the future and the unknown.

In an Ni the natural orientation towards the abstract evolves towards probabilities or things they believe are most likely to happen (the future) as being the most reliable source for accurately further developing their worldview towards that which will best allow them to deal with problems, though as much as they orient towards the future an Ni will still access their experiences in order to identify a solution; it's mostly a drive to access information before it comes.​

Like any function each is an orientation towards a specific way of processing and not an inability to think in any other way.

When new observations are made they're contrasted with this global model in order to come to further understandings and perceive what is according to Internal standards.


Animekitty said:
The MBTI I have not learned well enough. I base my interactions with you more on what you say than whats under your avatar. In real life I don't even try to type some one. Except maybe 5 times I tied to tell people about it. I told them I was not an expert but they should look into it anyway.


Two picture from 5th or 6th grade I would like to share.

[BIMG]http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/JeremyRexWilson/scan0301.jpg[/BIMG]

[BIMG]http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/JeremyRexWilson/scan102.jpg[/BIMG]

Yes, that's a good attitude to take when dealing with something you have yet to learn in its entirety.


As for those photos, they mostly make me think of an External Perception function in the way they're connecting themes together for the sake of creation/understanding.

It's difficult to get much of a read on whether that is Tertiary Se or Ne without knowing exactly what was going through your head as you made them.


Considering the current theoretical(not factual) orientation of cognitive functions, I am annoyed. Clear me on this: Typology is a high matter of theory and exploration, not something tangible and with one valid way(standard) of perception or logic. Your understanding may be different from mine, but that does not make it "inadequate". Unless, my logic is so visibly incorrect(more specifically related to my understanding of my own premises).

It is, and, as anything, it is open to anyone to interpret, but the further we get from core definitions and the more it becomes like creation of new ideas and your own personal experiences rather than mere interpretation of facts, the less alike Jungian typology it becomes, and when it is offered up as advice to someone asking their type on a Jungian typology forum you have to ask whether you should be offering assessment entirely of your own creation when they may not understand that that is quite what it is.

Not that I intended to lecture you on it exactly, it was not at all meant as an insult and more meant as a warning not to take it too seriously for the sake of Animekitty's understanding.

From my observation of you in the past you experiment with new concepts by experiencing and utilizing them in the moment, I could very honestly see you changing your theory in a month and saying the opposite of what you say now as you learn what makes the most sense to you.
Though I'll leave it up to you to ultimately verify
.


Words said:
I enjoy your method of writing organization btw; It gives me this strange easiness of accessibility. Most visible patterns in writing are very helpful. The work you must have exerted requires praise.

I've found that much like paragraphs, it becomes more accessible to read something that is split into distinct pieces.

I always found it remarkable how so many could be intimidated by a wall of text within a single post, skipping it in its entirety, only to go off to read at least as much, simply split among several posts.

It's more or less an experiment in readability and appeals to my aesthetic standards as well.

Words said:
Bare Assertion Fallacy.(maybe it is not a fallacy but you get my point.)

How I wish people would explain. I'm sure Anime wouldn't mind. [the digression of topic]

I will consider explaining if DesertSmeagle asks me to, but it's a little out of my current focus and not exactly that important.

I think Adymus just threw it out there for something for DesertSmeagle or others to think about on their own; he can hardly lecture the forum on his theories for every little possibility, nor can I for that matter.
 

Words

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@Cegorach

Try asking about Extroverted Perception. Anime might give an interesting answer(Ne), which would dull Introverted Perception and ultimately his functions for perception.
 

Black Rose

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I just noticed I put Sad ENFP as my signiture instead of Sad ENFJ

:storks::storks::storks:
 

Cegorach

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@Cegorach
I am definitely more Ni then Si

A video that shows me being abstract.

I wouldn't call that video particularly abstract.
Though perhaps the fault is with my explanation and the ambiguity and vast limitations of language:

"Abstract: thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances."


Your story is comprised of specific objects; candy bars, gummy bears, etc.
It is also set in an actual instance, so far as actual instances being things that have happened and/or been created as though they actually did happen and that being based on the Wizard of Oz, you're creating a tangible link between that and the actual instance of the Wizard of Oz, it being tangible as a story.

Though any fictional story does require some element of abstract thinking, particularly in how connections are made between fictional elements; what it appears to me like you're doing here is Abstract connections through the filter of Tangible thinking.

Even the fact that you keep linking me back towards past experiences or creations seems a little suspicious, though non-conclusive, in the favor of Si.



Now, to better demonstrate an Abstract orientation, I'm going to expand on my previous definition into how an Abstract oriented and a Tangible oriented perceive the same thing; this is meant to be used in conjunction with my earlier definition.

Abstract: The object of perception is stripped of context and details and the essential underlying idea is what is directly oriented towards.

Tangible: The object of perception is directly oriented towards in context and in details.​


Abstract is "x + y = z"
Tangible is "Red + Blue = Purple"



------------


I'm going to quote you on a few things from this thread to show further why I suspect tangible orientation:


"Id have to say that I anticipate great changes in society because of technology and I want them to happen fast. Popular science is my favorite magazine. I like combining different ideas to make new applications in my mind. I see many possibilities for change in all areas of life and in thought."

Popular science can be enjoyed just as much by iNtuitives as Sensors, it's what they take from it that actually shows their type.

Though the fact that you even told me such a Tangible thing again causes me a lean towards said orientation.

"In real life I don't even try to type some one. Except maybe 5 times I tied to tell people about it. I told them I was not an expert but they should look into it anyway."

Recall how what this is a response to was of me explaining how MBTI was a perversion of theory and that it was not accurate, so to not bother with it.

Notice how when I was speaking of it, I identified what I was speaking about only for the central of idea of creating understanding of typology.

Now notice how your response orients towards tangible examples of things you did in real life situations?

What an abstract oriented individual would usually do, at least the majority of the time when under the influence of their dominant Abstract attitude, is counter my concept of MBTI being worthless with either a question as to what part of its central idea is flawed, acceptance that the central idea is flawed, or denial that the central idea is flawed.

When an Abstract oriented person mentions Tangible situations or real life happenings it's generally for the purpose of identifying the central point.

"It could be said that when some one is defenseless against bad values I tell them there perspective is valued by me even if I disagree with it."

This is a Tangible experience of something you do in an actual instance that forms your worldview and values.

"They do not ask what happens in real life situations about you such as; How would you react if a waiter dropped food in your lap/floor.

I would help them clean it up and try to to them I wont complain to the manger about it.
"

Not only do you specifically point to the fact that you orient towards Tangible realities in how you want them to ask about real life situations, but you also explain what you would do in a real life situation despite the fact that it's not relevant to the underlying idea.

"By my understanding I need constant stimulation. I am not ADHD but I get bored if my mind is not occupied by external things, thats a reason I'm addicted to the internet. Waiting in lobby's frustrates the Hell out of me. I read books better when I'm at parties than at a quite library. When I was a child I had low self esteem because I wanted to be an inverter but no one in my family or school wanted to mentor me. My dad left my mom when I was 6 so a male figure was not there for me. I avoided people because I thought they did not care. Fe makes me feel good about myself so when I was unable to express it I got depressed. My personal problem have now almost been resolved. I am socializing more and I no longer feel frustrated if I not good at things that are impossible for me to reach mentally."

This is just Tangible example after Tangible example, there isn't much to say except that you're compromising the underlying idea in favor of the context and details.

It entirely points to Tangible orientation.

"Have you viewed many INTJ videos on youtube? Or are you basing your thoughts on other experiences you've had with INTJ's."

Generally if someone is trying to guess why another would do something, they'll first look to what their own motivations would be in that situation, unless of course they have some form of knowledge (such as typology) that will tell them the other thinks in an entirely separate way.

The way in which you immediately assume that member's guess has been gleaned from either direct observation or experience tells me that this is the most common way in which you gather information.


However, Ni is quite apt at assessing probabilities, it does not need to have ever experienced something in order to assume what is most likely based simply on their perception of inherent probability.


------------


I'm actually pretty convinced that you're an ESFJ, nothing points to an Abstract worldview or overarching orientation.

@Cegorach

Try asking about Extroverted Perception. Anime might give an interesting answer(Ne), which would dull Introverted Perception and ultimately his functions for perception.

I think I'll allow Animekitty to believe as he wishes, whether that be ENFJ or ESFJ, as I will believe according to what I have observed.

My goal here was to identify the underlying principles of what type he was and I believe I have done so, who I convince isn't really important to me as the truth stands on its own, above opinion.


Though that would be a good suggestion should I decide continuance of this endeavor. ;)


------------


Between Adymus claiming DesertSmeagle is an ENTJ in this thread and Words making an effort in convincing me to further explicate my reasoning, I'll try to divulge this as briefly as possible.


And I would have to say ESP here, with far less room for doubt than I've had with Animekitty, mainly due to an apparent lesser development of DesertSmeagle's lower hierarchy functions.

He predominantly orients Tangibly in his communication, especially in pointing at how his real life situations are cause for that which makes him worth something.

A few examples:
Notice how the bolded leads into real world Tangible examples.


There should b.e like subtypes of each personality because everyone is really unique and has different experiences..like i might like completely different music than some people.

o ya and how do i make posts? i have alot to talk about since everyone judges me in real life.

well, i dnt particularly like fasion because i see it as a means of comforming to social pressures and garbage like that. but if u just like fasion to look good go for it. I dnt wear many brand names but i try to look good haha.

im in this same identity crisis but for a different reason..i have social anxiety disorder, which ill make a post about soon.. i go to school all day lookin like a weirdo quiet retard, but i get home and im completely different..im 100% introverted, which i dnt think is good..i rely dont know how id act in public or college without anxiety. but i know id be pretty awesome.

i think that McDonalds has the most delicious double cheesburgers in the universe..too bad its so bad for you. i need to lose some weight.

Seriously, I didn't even put much effort into that, just looked through maybe ten of his first few posts on the forum.


Now that demonstrates a Tangible Orientation, particularly an Extraverted Tangible Orientation in that it focuses externally (and yes, focusing on your body is still external), near all of his attitudes demonstrate an in the moment, Tangible, experience focused mind that does not orient towards the underlying idea in the slightest.


There is no way that he's iNtuitive.

There is no way he is utilizing Ni in his higher hierarchy
.


There is, however, the possibility that he could be either F or T, though I would lean towards an Internal Value orientation in how he seems to be more concerned with "being awesome" than with creating a strong underlying system in which he can reference to prove his awesomeness, as would be the case with a Te Dominant.

ESFP seems to gather the most credence in terms of probability, though an ESTP who has become stuck in a Dominant Tertiary loop hardly seems that far out of the realm of possibility.
 

Words

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It entirely points to Tangible orientation.

I'm actually pretty convinced that you're an ESFJ, nothing points to an Abstract worldview or overarching orientation.

I get your reasoning for "tangible orientation" but what about direction of -troversion? Why not Ne - Si? Because of emphasized "tangible evidence"? Alright, then, why not Se-Ni?

Also why Dominant Fe?


And I would have to say ESP here, with far less room for doubt than I've had with Animekitty, mainly due to an apparent lesser development of DesertSmeagle's lower hierarchy functions.------------
Seriously, I didn't even put much effort into that, just looked through maybe ten of his first few posts on the forum.


Now that demonstrates a Tangible Orientation, particularly an Extraverted Tangible Orientation in that it focuses externally

near all of his attitudes demonstrate an in the moment, Tangible, experience focused mind that does not orient towards the underlying idea in the slightest.

What details do you identify for Fi? Ti? Te? Ne? Ni? Could you explain specifically? Are there certain general specific words that points towards an orientation?[that could help in understanding.]

Why Dominant Se? Because of the lack of Ji?


(and yes, focusing on your body is still external),
I read differently in that Jung stated that the body was still a part of identity implying an "intro-direction". He also connectively stated that one major perhaps evolutionary inclination for Introverts is self-survival, and for Extroverts, mass production.
 

Black Rose

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@Cegorach

I read your post very carefully. At least I hope so. I have 3 questions.

1. If I am ESFP do you have any advice for interacting with you as an INTP? Are there things I should not do?
2. Should I act less awesome and give others more of a voice?
3. Should I be more independent and work on specific functions?
 

Adymus

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Cegorach, you're one of the smarter ones, I would have expected you to recognize the inherent weakness in typing people based solely on things they say on the forums.
I also would have expected you to take into consideration all of the unknowns, like external factors that would cause a person to act differently from how their type is supposed to act. Especially considering that the way you typed Animekitty would be seen as outlandish to any of the "normal" MBTI followers. And yet, this:


Your story is comprised of specific objects; candy bars, gummy bears, etc.
It is also set in an actual instance, so far as actual instances being things that have happened and/or been created as though they actually did happen and that being based on the Wizard of Oz, you're creating a tangible link between that and the actual instance of the Wizard of Oz, it being tangible as a story.
This logic is so flawed it is ridiculous. So according to you anyone that writes a story that involves tangible objects is a sensor... So pretty much every writer, directer, musician, and inventor in the world is a sensor then, because all of their products are tangible objects?

Interpretive information cannot exist without literal information, for example, a metaphor is nothing without a tangible object to demonstrate the pattern. If you are wondering why Animekitten's story was not filled with abstractions and concepts... it's probably because you can actually see abstractions and concepts... but you can see objects!
The story that Animekitty came up with began as a concept (Ni), and then he used physical objects (Se) to tell the story; even if he ripped off Wizard of Oz, he still had to conceptualize how he would draw these connections and re-tell the story in his interpretation. You cannot tell a story without adding physical objects to give it context!
Though the fact that you even told me such a Tangible thing again causes me a lean towards said orientation.
Dude, what!? Did you completely miss this:

"I like combining different ideas to make new applications in my mind. I see many possibilities for change in all areas of life and in thought."

How is that tangible? He is refering to taking the different concepts of ideas and synthesizing them for things that were never thought of before, and this is your proof of Si orientation? Really Cegorach? Really?
Now notice how your response orients towards tangible examples of things you did in real life situations?

What an abstract oriented individual would usually do, at least the majority of the time when under the influence of their dominant Abstract attitude, is counter my concept of MBTI being worthless with either a question as to what part of its central idea is flawed, acceptance that the central idea is flawed, or denial that the central idea is flawed.
1. You do realize Ni users have memories too, right? They didn't jipped of memory usage just being they don't have Si, they can talk about their past just as everyone else can.

2. Questioning why you think MBTI is flawed has nothing to do with being intuitive, that is actually what I would expect out of a Ti or Te user, if he has no opinion on the matter he has no reason to question you. Especially because of they way you sound like you know more about what you are talking about than he does.

However, Ni is quite apt at assessing probabilities, it does not need to have ever experienced something in order to assume what is most likely based simply on their perception of inherent probability.
Not true, Every intervened perception function needs to have experience of come kind in order to give it context. In the case of Ni, experiences are needed that can be synergized into patterns that give it greater meaning, and in the case of Si, Patterns need to be experienced before they can be concretized into facts.

Now with Ni, it doesn't necessarily need to have that exact experience in order to have a conceptual understanding of it, but asking about an actual instance is a completely reasonable thing for an Ni user, because it solidifies a concept into reality allowing it to stand on it's own.

As for Desertsmeagle...

How much he talks about tangable things is completely irrelevent, you are not taking into consideration how types can develop, you are applying them all to the exact same standards of behavior, like this romanticized notion of Intuitives constantly speaking in metaphor you seem to have. What I have assessed from DS, is that while he is indeed an ENTJ, he has not yet developed a strong connection to his Ni. This is actually quite common for Fe and Te dominants, especially when they are intuitive because their Ni is not something that is easily appreciated, so they essentially only use their Ni as their "cunning" but they don't actually understand it very well.
It is also very common for types to essentially "skip over" to their tertiary functions, like Desertsmeagle is doing, especially when the extrovert in question has not given themselves enough of a chance to reflect into their inner world. I don't think Deasertsmeagle would pass for what I would call the "average ENTJ", but that is what you have to expect with personality typing, not all types are going to act how you think they are supposed to act.

You need to have a way to take these unknown factors, like how they have grown up and developed into consideration, if you are only basing your typing off of superficial factors like how he expresses himself in text on a forum, you are bound to be wrong.

Edit: Do you have any idea how many feelers I have uncovered on this forum who thought they were thinking oriented, just because their thinking tertiary functions express themselves often? And you know what? If we only looked at their posts on this forum, then they surely would have seemed like Thinkers, but that is why I don't, that is why I use videos. Because in a video I can see their natural wiring, I don't just see how they are presenting themselves in some impersonal medium.
 

Razare

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If you're an ESFP, you shouldn't be using Ti at all. From what I saw of your first video, you were using it... and you were using it inefficiently, if I might add, worse than me. Having it as your 4th function sounds highly plausible. This would leave ESFJ or ENFJ. If you consider it is your third function then this would also include, INFJ and ISFJ.

You use N. I saw that in your eyes, they'd wander off to the left a bit, usually down and left but once was just left. You maybe had one Si check, but that was to recall the name "Mushroom Men". When you were talking about anything meaningful, it was Ti + N. Your N, from how you describe your idealism is very much an introverted N. Your N is internal, it's not a factor of your external environment, interacting with reality. Ni is far more idealistic than INFP's idealism. INFP idealism is more about trying to achieve their personal values in the world around them. It's really just a manifestation of their Fi function, which always wants everything in their environment to align with their personal values. When things in the external environment are out of synch, they get depressed, or flighty to try and change their environment.

Possessing an ideal and directing effort specifically towards that, in order to perhaps one day realize that ideal or ambition is Ni. Ni will often give you totally unrealistic ideals too, such as you described about creating artificial intelligence.

I think you use Fe to articulate; your articulation sounds similar to mine, which is why I would say this.

You're INFJ or ENFJ. Since you're thinking ENFJ too, I'd go with that. There's not a whole lot of difference between the two, except when your Ni is a top function, you tend to be more withdrawn and have deeper insights. Fe at the top makes you more sociable, usually; which in most cases allows you to succeed in life without relying on Ti. If however, you were in an environment where Fe wasn't cutting it for you, I could definitely see an ENFJ tapping their lower functions.
 

Razare

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Where I think Cegorach is going wrong here is that ENFJ's are very sensing oriented. It's their third function and they generally take full advantage of it. If Animekitty were an ESFJ, he should be relying on Si a LOT more to remember details, rather than Ti + Ni to articulate concepts. I never saw him use Ne.

My sister is an ENFJ, and she's into fashion, having nice clothes, and having a cool looking car. She cares very much about external objects in her life and is very good at dealing with them. She loves to do activities because it engages her Se. Spotting the ENFJ's Ni is difficult because it's introverted and they're constantly presenting Fe + Se to the entire world. It's when it comes down to their beliefs that you hit Ni, not when you're interacting with them on a superficial level. ENFJ's direct their Ni to determine their personal beliefs and create unique ideas or plans; they generally do not develop this into an all-encompassing worldview such as an INFJ or an INTJ. They don't need to take it that far, usually, because they're busy living life and enjoying it.
 

Cegorach

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I get your reasoning for "tangible orientation" but what about direction of -troversion? Why not Ne - Si? Because of emphasized "tangible evidence"? Alright, then, why not Se-Ni?

Also why Dominant Fe?

What details do you identify for Fi? Ti? Te? Ne? Ni? Could you explain specifically? Are there certain general specific words that points towards an orientation?[that could help in understanding.]

Why Dominant Se? Because of the lack of Ji?

I'll have to get back to you on these later, Words.
The level of energy in which it takes to externalize concepts clearly is wearing me down a little.

Words said:
I read differently in that Jung stated that the body was still a part of identity implying an "intro-direction". He also connectively stated that one major perhaps evolutionary inclination for Introverts is self-survival, and for Extroverts, mass production.

Perhaps.
What I have read of Jung I have mostly taken the core ideas from and perhaps lost many of the details, he is rather lacking in his ability to concisely get a point across.

And like I said, I'm not against evolution of Jung's theory, just those who base theories off of something they never understood in the first place.

I'll work on refining my definitions and incorporating that which I'm missing over time, including this, but for now I stand by my original statement so far as my current understanding of typology goes.

@Cegorach
I read your post very carefully. At least I hope so. I have 3 questions.

1. If I am ESFP do you have any advice for interacting with you as an INTP? Are there things I should not do?

I'm not entirely sure if that was a typo or if you mistook the second part of my post in which I was typing DesertSmeagle to refer to you, but I consider you to be an ESFJ and DesertSmeagle to (probably) be an ESFP.

Though I can answer these posts from the perspective of you being an ESFJ instead.



------------


1. I am an INTJ; if you desire to understand how to interact with me, as an INTJ, the best response would be "cower in fear" ;)
Though, in all seriousness, I prefer to keep detached, and I have every intent to treat you with respect, coupled with an often blunt honesty; so long as you're being respectful in return, and to others, we shouldn't have too many problems.

I don't have much advice for you in a non-individual basis, and though I imagine typology could be used in such a way, I've hardly focused towards the arena of inter-personal relationships within my exploration of it.

Animekitty said:
2. Should I act less awesome and give others more of a voice?

2. I believe I've filled this entire thread with long winded explanations while you have done plenty in the way of listening; from my admittedly limited observation you give people more than enough of a voice.
I wouldn't worry about it.

Animekitty said:
3. Should I be more independent and work on specific functions?

3. It never hurts to aim yourself towards activities and ways of thinking that will help you develop your lower hierarchy functions, just remember that you are ultimately going to be most comfortable with your Dominant and Auxiliary and the last thing you need to do is wear yourself out by treating function development like an exercise regime.
 

Cegorach

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Cegorach, you're one of the smarter ones, I would have expected you to recognize the inherent weakness in typing people based solely on things they say on the forums.

I understand the weaknesses of typing one on forums as I understand the weaknesses of typing them in any real life situation, but I have little choice as I do not have direct access to their minds.

I know you're implying the superiority of video-typing here, but I certainly have seen no evidence to back it up as a relevant theory.


Adymus said:
I also would have expected you to take into consideration all of the unknowns, like external factors that would cause a person to act differently from how their type is supposed to act. Especially considering that the way you typed Animekitty would be seen as outlandish to any of the "normal" MBTI followers. And yet, this:

I hardly see any way in which either you or I can avoid making mistakes based on our inability to see directly into an individual's motives, but I don't consider the way a person acts as any more than an obstacle of which obscures which functions they're using.

If you do find a way to do so I'll be glad to hear of it though.


Adymus said:
This logic is so flawed it is ridiculous. So according to you anyone that writes a story that involves tangible objects is a sensor... So pretty much every writer, directer, musician, and inventor in the world is a sensor then, because all of their products are tangible objects?

Interpretive information cannot exist without literal information, for example, a metaphor is nothing without a tangible object to demonstrate the pattern. If you are wondering why Animekitten's story was not filled with abstractions and concepts... it's probably because you can actually see abstractions and concepts... but you can see objects!
The story that Animekitty came up with began as a concept (Ni), and then he used physical objects (Se) to tell the story; even if he ripped off Wizard of Oz, he still had to conceptualize how he would draw these connections and re-tell the story in his interpretation. You cannot tell a story without adding physical objects to give it context!

You're misunderstanding what I meant.

I was pointing out that the story that was being provided to me as evidence of an Abstract oriented mind had predominantly Tangible elements and isn't exactly something I would consider an Abstract story; as I pointed out by saying what I've quoted below, every fictional story is going to be comprised of Abstract elements as well.

As a matter of fact it's near impossible to create at all without both Abstract and Tangible aspects, but there will be a dominant orientation towards one or the other that should be prevalent and point towards which function is being used to a greater extent.


"Though any fictional story does require some element of abstract thinking, particularly in how connections are made between fictional elements; what it appears to me like you're doing here is Abstract connections through the filter of Tangible thinking."


You do have a good point in that Ni to Se is possible, but very much like my interpretation I'm doubting you can honestly tell me that you know whether it began as your way or with a tangible identification of an object and the abstract connections tying them together.

Adymus said:
Dude, what!? Did you completely miss this:

"I like combining different ideas to make new applications in my mind. I see many possibilities for change in all areas of life and in thought."

How is that tangible? He is refering to taking the different concepts of ideas and synthesizing them for things that were never thought of before, and this is your proof of Si orientation? Really Cegorach? Really?

There is no specification as to whether those possibilities are identified using Ne or Ni, I had assumed Animekitty was referring to taking possibilities as he experienced them and developing through them change in how he lived his life and thought as he used his Ne to further add to his Si worldview.

Adymus said:
1. You do realize Ni users have memories too, right? They didn't jipped of memory usage just being they don't have Si, they can talk about their past just as everyone else can.

Being an Ni user myself I'm more than aware of that, but I don't see how orienting yourself towards Tangible experiences in nearly every response has anything to do with having or not having memories.

Adymus said:
2. Questioning why you think MBTI is flawed has nothing to do with being intuitive, that is actually what I would expect out of a Ti or Te user, if he has no opinion on the matter he has no reason to question you. Especially because of they way you sound like you know more about what you are talking about than he does.

That is a good point, though at this stage I was merely pointing out my pondering in relation to possibility of manifestations.

I am able to see how any function could have contributed to it, but I was taking a risk in probability by identifying it as I did.

Adymus said:
Not true, Every intervened perception function needs to have experience of come kind in order to give it context. In the case of Ni, experiences are needed that can be synergized into patterns that give it greater meaning, and in the case of Si, Patterns need to be experienced before they can be concretized into facts.

Now with Ni, it doesn't necessarily need to have that exact experience in order to have a conceptual understanding of it, but asking about an actual instance is a completely reasonable thing for an Ni user, because it solidifies a concept into reality allowing it to stand on it's own.

Heh, perhaps I need to refine how I explain this then, because again it seems you have misunderstood me.

Ni does not directly relate to the experience is what I was implying, not that it doesn't, at some point in its development, need an experience in order to give it context.

As you said, it relates it to a greater meaning or underlying idea and shouldn't always be directly orienting itself towards the details of the experience as is happening here.

I agree with pretty much everything you said in that which I quoted and intended mine to mean the same, though this being largely written on the spot and drawing on far longer than I would have hoped it would has perhaps caused me to not explain myself in the detail required.

Adymus said:
As for Desertsmeagle...

How much he talks about tangable things is completely irrelevent, you are not taking into consideration how types can develop, you are applying them all to the exact same standards of behavior,
It's interesting that you assume I'm focusing on behavior when, in fact, I'm quite opposed to behavior and type being treated as one in the same.

I'm identifying functions as I see them in order of prominence, it has nothing to do with behavior except for the fact that that's obviously an obstacle to my assessment.

It's also quite fascinating in that I had always considered you as focusing on the manifestation of functions too much; perhaps we misunderstand one another's motives?

Adymus said:
like this romanticized notion of Intuitives constantly speaking in metaphor you seem to have.

Not at all, mostly we speak quite normally as are you and I, but when not forced to do otherwise iNtuitives will not orient themselves towards so many tangible situations as do these two, they will -predominantly- (though not exclusively) speak in theory, general ideas and underlying concepts.

As we are, as does Words and as does any other iNtuitive on this board.

Adymus said:
What I have assessed from DS, is that while he is indeed an ENTJ, he has not yet developed a strong connection to his Ni. This is actually quite common for Fe and Te dominants, especially when they are intuitive because their Ni is not something that is easily appreciated, so they essentially only use their Ni as their "cunning" but they don't actually understand it very well.
It is also very common for types to essentially "skip over" to their tertiary functions, like Desertsmeagle is doing, especially when the extrovert in question has not given themselves enough of a chance to reflect into their inner world. I don't think Deasertsmeagle would pass for what I would call the "average ENTJ", but that is what you have to expect with personality typing, not all types are going to act how you think they are supposed to act.

Again; his actions and behavior have not influenced my assessment at all except for in how they reflect his functional preferences.

I do not see Te to the extent that you obviously do, but I sure as hell see a lot of Se and something else which I have reason to suspect is Fi.

Though again, it's a matter of interpreting motivations and little more.

Adymus said:
You need to have a way to take these unknown factors, like how they have grown up and developed into consideration, if you are only basing your typing off of superficial factors like how he expresses himself in text on a forum, you are bound to be wrong.

You know of his upbringing beyond what has been expressed on the forum no more than I do, and while that will modify his behavior I'm still not even beginning to see where you've derived a Dominant Te orientation from.

Adymus said:
Edit: Do you have any idea how many feelers I have uncovered on this forum who thought they were thinking oriented, just because their thinking tertiary functions express themselves often? And you know what? If we only looked at their posts on this forum, then they surely would have seemed like Thinkers, but that is why I don't, that is why I use videos. Because in a video I can see their natural wiring, I don't just see how they are presenting themselves in some impersonal medium.

I agree, tertiary "favoring" is actually quite common and I've agreed with you on many of them and understood it as easily as you.

Though I will say that you're a little overly zealous on the INFJ typing in my opinion.


Keep in mind that this is not a game in claiming superiority so much as an exercise in understanding.


But like I said, I don't respect your video typing theory as valid at all and can't help but notice the multiple discrepancies as well as the fact that nobody but yourself seems to be able to accurately identify types through it without being prodded or excessive guessing games.
Though I'll continue watching in hopes that you eventually come up with something beyond bare assertion of it's ability.
 

Razare

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You don't have to use the video to type him either, if the debate is solely between ESFJ and ENFJ, then you can use his statements on this forum to make a conclusion.

I know I have creative ideas but mostly I tell people about them other than implement them because I am uncertain as to how. But when there is an opportunity I take it.

Creativity is often a manifestation of N, even if it is a third function. I honestly think Ni is more creative because it involves pursuing one concept to fruition; rather than feeling out a million possibilities around you.

Also, I have two ESFJ friends, neither shows the slightest bit of creativity compared to my ENFJ sister, myself, my INFP friend, or my ISFP ex-girlfriend. They're generally not that creative because their Si is very much a historical database, which focuses on "what is" not "what if".

AnimeKitty is very much a "what if" type of person. He talks at length in his video about all these possibilities he wanted to achieve. Or even the quoted sentence above leads me to this conclusion.

I cannot help but tell people why they act the way they do and this has lead many people to love or hate me for it.

According to AnimeKitty, he has insights into the motivations for people's actions. ESFJ's are not known for this. ESFJ's tend to make a profile of you based on your previous behavior, which will be a very accurate portrayal of you from an external perspective, but they generally do not delve into the inner workings of your mind and dissect motivations.

The problem is I feel hurt when no one listens to my suggestions. They think I'm trying to take control when really I just want to find the best solutions. I do not like groups with a single leader that discredits my ideas.

The fact that you're coming up with these "cool plans" that you suggest to the group in hopes that they do it, just screams ENFJ to me. My sister *always* does that. Formulating such plans is a manifestation of Ni, and I know from personal experience that it does hurt when your Ni vision is not realized.

ESFJ's are more structured in their plans. If they're inviting friends over to do something, then they'll follow socially acceptable protocol and do not interject random new ideas during the process, usually. Just as an example, like if I take my sister out to each Chinese food, well of course along the way she sees a store and has to shop there. If I tell her no, then she's all upset and the whole trip is ruined. My ESFJ friend would likely just stick to the predefined plan. She might ask if she could go to the store, but if I said no, she wouldn't be at all offended or hurt by it. There's a different dynamic there because she's not my sister, but even so, I don't think that would change the nature of her responses.

That hurt feeling the ENFJ gets is all about having their Ni squashed.
 

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I apologize for the condescending tone of my last post (Glad to see you ignored it), it looked like Anime kitty was being intimidated by your level of knowledge into thinking he was an ESFJ (Which was unintentional I am sure), and that rattled my Fe a little.
I hardly see any way in which either you or I can avoid making mistakes based on our inability to see directly into an individual's motives, but I don't consider the way a person acts as any more than an obstacle of which obscures which functions they're using.

If you do find a way to do so I'll be glad to hear of it though.
Well reading people is the way over that obstacle, but I can't do much at the moment to try and sway you into that, so I won't.

This is why the INFJs are naturally way better than us at this, they are not afraid to actually try and read a person's mind.


You're misunderstanding what I meant.

I was pointing out that the story that was being provided to me as evidence of an Abstract oriented mind had predominantly Tangible elements and isn't exactly something I would consider an Abstract story; as I pointed out by saying what I've quoted below, every fictional story is going to be comprised of Abstract elements as well.

As a matter of fact it's near impossible to create at all without both Abstract and Tangible aspects, but there will be a dominant orientation towards one or the other that should be prevalent and point towards which function is being used to a greater extent.
I completely agree, but I don't think his story is one that we can say is heavily oriented more toward tangibility more than it is toward abstract meaning. If this were Michael Bay we are talking about, then I'd agree with you (Even though I'm pretty sure he is probably an INTJ using a lot of Se to sell out to masses.)


Although, after writing that sentence in parentheticals, I think even if they wrote a story that was heavy in concrete details (Like Avatar), it is still not valid evidence to use for proof of their personality type.

You do have a good point in that Ni to Se is possible, but very much like my interpretation I'm doubting you can honestly tell me that you know whether it began as your way or with a tangible identification of an object and the abstract connections tying them together.
Fair enough.


There is no specification as to whether those possibilities are identified using Ne or Ni, I had assumed Animekitty was referring to taking possibilities as he experienced them and developing through them change in how he lived his life and thought as he used his Ne to further add to his Si worldview.
Okay let's focus on this for a second... How does it make sense that an ESFJ is focusing on and is inspired by championing change, as opposed holding on to their past experiences, and being resistant to new ideas that are not already tangible? I mean, generally speaking an ESFJ mainly uses their Ne to improvise when their community/Social circle is going in a direction that is outside of their worldview, not so much to conceptualize cool inventions or possibilities.
You are essentially suggesting that he is building his Si worldview based off of what is possible, that only happens when Ne is above Si, an ESFJ would base what is possible (Ne) off of what is Known (Si), not the other way around.

And lastly, he is already overmodulating his Ti, if he were overmodulating tertiary function too he would be in far worse shape than we already see.

There is also no reason for him to overmodulate his Ne so harshly, the world rewards Si more than it does Ne, that is why you don't actually see any SJs that are leaning heavily to unhealthy levels on their Ne.
It's interesting that you assume I'm focusing on behavior when, in fact, I'm quite opposed to behavior and type being treated as one in the same.

I'm identifying functions as I see them in order of prominence, it has nothing to do with behavior except for the fact that that's obviously an obstacle to my assessment.

It's also quite fascinating in that I had always considered you as focusing on the manifestation of functions too much; perhaps we misunderstand one another's motives?
If figured you were, which is why I was surprised to see that you were doing just the opposite.

I don't think you are making much of an effort to note the differences between Si and Se though, it seems like you are just noting all detail based perceptions as Si. There are many instances, such as Animekitten's story, where it could realistically be either.

Perhaps, manifestations of functions will tell you what functions they use, but there are many other things I take into account that tell me much more than that. Whether you believe me or not, with all that I take into account, I can see not just a person's type, but how they have developed, and their "style" of how they use their functions.


Not at all, mostly we speak quite normally as are you and I, but when not forced to do otherwise iNtuitives will not orient themselves towards so many tangible situations as do these two, they will -predominantly- (though not exclusively) speak in theory, general ideas and underlying concepts.

As we are, as does Words and as does any other iNtuitive on this board.
Animekitten does not already have a strong understanding of the theory. He is bringing up past instances not much so as proof, but as another thing to take into consideration. He is presenting it as objective information, "what about this", very much in the same way that we Ne users present Ne; "what about this?", it is detailed based information, but it is not information that he is holding on to as a worldview map, but instances that he is looking to integrate into a greater understanding.

Again; his actions and behavior have not influenced my assessment at all except for in how they reflect his functional preferences.

I do not see Te to the extent that you obviously do, but I sure as hell see a lot of Se and something else which I have reason to expect is Fi.

Though again, it's a matter of interpreting motivations and little more.
How is that not allowing his behavior to influence your assessment? You are noting that his behavior is very Se oriented based on the limited scope of what has been said on the forum, that sounds like you are only observing his behavior to me.



You know of his upbringing beyond what has been expressed on the forum no more than I do, and while that will modify his behavior I'm still not even beginning to see where you've derived a Dominant Te orientation from.
Which is quite a lot actually, he has stated that he has social anxiety disorder and that he is bipolar, so we already know that he is not living a "normal" life, and yet you are still holding to the same standards of any normal ESFP or ENTJ.



Though I will say that you're a little overly zealous on the INFJ typing in my opinion.


Keep in mind that this is not a game in claiming superiority so much as an exercise in understanding.
I only do it because I believe it is necessary. What we are getting into is more than just an exercise, we are actually effecting people lives, this demands accuracy of us.


But like I said, I don't respect your video typing theory as valid at all and can't help but notice the multiple discrepancies as well as the fact that nobody but yourself seems to be able to accurately identify types through it without being prodded or excessive guessing games.
Though I'll continue watching in hopes that you eventually come up with something beyond bare assertion of it's ability.
That is because I have actually given this forum very little to work with. I am the only person on this forum that can read people accurately (85% to 90%) because I am the only person who has been trained in it. Everyone else read a thread I wrote on it, so essentially they understand a very small portion of the theory, in theory alone. Reading people is far more than just an understand of theory, it takes experience, it takes self-mastery, then finally it takes a sophisticated level of theoretical understanding, and it certainly does not just happen all at once. Ideally one should be trained in reading people in person, by a mentor with the same personality type as you.
You as well as everyone else on this forum actually know very little of what reading people is and how it is done, so please don't assume my thread is all there is to the theory.* I actually wrote the thread originally as a synopsis just to see how other INTPs take to it, how much skepticism will be expressed, and what questions will be asked of it.

*I'm withholding the rest, it's pod'lair material and our main site with forums will be up soon, so I am saving the rest for that moment. I'd rather not present it in the form of MBTI like I did the first guide, MBTI does not deserve the credit for our work.

That aside, thank you for not just concluding that I am completely full of shit.
 

Cegorach

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I'll be around in a few days to answer these and hopefully find a conclusive answer.
You do make some relevant points that I'll need to reevaluate when I get a chance.
 

DesertSmeagle

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Im masturbating to this video. Ill probably masturbate to it forever.

Ya computer technology is pretty crazy. Who knows what could happen in the next 10-20 years. I had a computer 8 years ago with a 25GB hard drive and like 64 MB of ram..Now this laptop, which sucks faggot penis, has 250 GB and about 3.5 GB ram.

But i dont know what the fuck your talking about. Computers on planets? why? Jupiter is made up entirely of gas. Nanobots? To consume Jupiters resourses? By carbon based computers do you mean human beings? why would we have to go to Jupiter to get carbon? im sure we can make somthing identical to it now.

I dont think robots break very easily. They build cars and are used in the military. Here ill show you an example of one.Its not necessary to build millions of tiny robots to go through billions of miles of space to collect gas from jupiter. I dont know what your saying, but i think you wana make human being/robots by getting carbon from jupiter with really fast computers. Or maybe u want to turn Jupiter into a robot. Im not sure what your saying.Maybe you should send this video to nasa, so they can masturbate to it while theyre bulding rockets and satellites.
YouTube- Boston Dynamics Big Dog (new video March 2008)

:cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::beatyou:
 

Black Rose

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Im masturbating to this video. Ill probably masturbate to it forever.

Ya computer technology is pretty crazy. Who knows what could happen in the next 10-20 years. I had a computer 8 years ago with a 25GB hard drive and like 64 MB of ram..Now this laptop, which sucks faggot penis, has 250 GB and about 3.5 GB ram.

But i dont know what the fuck your talking about. Computers on planets? why? Jupiter is made up entirely of gas. Nanobots? To consume Jupiters resourses? By carbon based computers do you mean human beings? why would we have to go to Jupiter to get carbon? im sure we can make somthing identical to it now.

I dont think robots break very easily. They build cars and are used in the military. Here ill show you an example of one.Its not necessary to build millions of tiny robots to go through billions of miles of space to collect gas from jupiter. I dont know what your saying, but i think you wana make human being/robots by getting carbon from jupiter with really fast computers. Or maybe u want to turn Jupiter into a robot. Im not sure what your saying.Maybe you should send this video to nasa, so they can masturbate to it while theyre bulding rockets and satellites.
YouTube- Boston Dynamics Big Dog (new video March 2008)

:cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::cat::beatyou:

I was wrong about the robots breaking part.

1. Computers can be made of nanotubes and nanotubes are made of carbon.
2. Jupiter could be transformed into one big supercomputer with nanobots.
3. It would have 10^47 bits of Ram acording to Ray Kuzweil's 2005 book (The Singularity Is Near)
4. When Jupiter is tuned into a giant computer Artificial intelligence will live inside of it.
5. Our brains will be turned into software so we can upload ourselves int Jupiter.
 

DesertSmeagle

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Thats some fuckin crazy shit...It really is.
How are we gonna turn our brains into software?
So wed all be living in the Matrix?
What if the artificial intelligence created its own software which would destroy the human race software.?
hmm,,interesting...sounds like a good idea for a movie.:borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg:first post i can use this emoticon with:borg::borg::borg::borg:
 

Black Rose

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Thats some fuckin crazy shit...It really is.
How are we gonna turn our brains into software?
So wed all be living in the Matrix?
What if the artificial intelligence created its own software which would destroy the human race software.?
hmm,,interesting...sounds like a good idea for a movie.:borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg::borg:first post i can use this emoticon with:borg::borg::borg::borg:

Nanobots merge with our braincell to create software.
It would be like the matrix except it would be like a video game.
The A.I. software will be programed to be out friends like dogs and cats are our friends now.

In the future people will have superpowers.

YouTube- Deus Ex: Human Revolution NEW "They Can't Stop The Future" E3 2010 Trailer
 

DesertSmeagle

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If there was a effect world, this would be a great idea. But people would probably hacks the system.. So all of out minds would be one collective computer mind. So the entire han race could be wiped out at once . But if this didn't happen it'd be a cool idea. Maybe oneday it will be our only hope for survival .
 

Razare

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I'm not certain why we would have to upload our brains into Jupiter. I mean, yeah we probably could at some point... it might be a decent Plan B should the human race face the destruction of Earth, with no other viable place to survive.

Why not simply augment our bodies to the point of achieving a state in which we take forever to die? Then we can travel to other planets. By then, we'll have better engines so it'll only take a thousand years or so; and we'll have better technology so we can tell what the closer planets actually have for atmospheres. Maybe we'll send probes on ahead of us, to scout out good places to move.
 

Black Rose

An unbreakable bond
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with mama
I'm not certain why we would have to upload our brains into Jupiter.

If you live for millions of years your memories will exceed your current body mass so you will need more computation to grow and evolve. I wonder what it would be like to have a brain the size of a planet.
 

Razare

Well-Known Member
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Today 6:16 PM
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Apr 11, 2009
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Easy, we create pocket dimensions inside our head, to store our genetically-modified brain the size of a universe. Then if our body dies, we just get a new one built and hook it up to the pocket dimension brain.

BTW - I wont be taking part in this transformation, I fully look forward to death. Being around this boring universe for all of eternity would be equal to Hell for me.
 
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