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If I'm INFJ can I stay

Black Rose

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Many of you might think this is BS but I now believe myself to be an INFJ. You guys and gals just seem so more rational than I. Its not that I wouldn't love to be INTP its just that I have to think about how I act in real life and not on the internet. I don't really care if you hurt my feelings even if that caricaturist of my type. I have learned just to take it with a grain of salt that NT's debate aggressively where as I cant even say someone is a jerk even if I really want to. If you have ever had experience with INFJ males I would like to here about it considering I believe I am one. Your input is appreciated.
 

echoplex

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Nah, security will definitely have to take your INTP card. You will then be sent to a farm upstate, where you will live out your days peacefully INFJ Forum where you will be tortured until you beg for your INTPness back. An MBTI tribunal will then decide your fate.

Seriously though, a few points:
- One might say a dominant thinking type would be more sensitive to an apparent lack of rationality thus possibly resulting in your assertion that others here are more rational. Perhaps a feeler wouldn't really notice it.
- I'm pretty much the same about not liking to call people jerks. Apparently, I'm a really 'nice' person. But then, if you think about it, calling people names is a bit of an ad hom and really has no place in a logical debate anyway. So, that's not very convincing either.

Yeah, I've thought I was an INFJ over 9,000 times but deep down I know it probably isn't true. (lol @ my use of 'probably' *sigh*)
 

Black Rose

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Nah, security will definitely have to take your INTP card. You will then be sent to a farm upstate, where you will live out your days peacefully INFJ Forum where you will be tortured until you beg for your INTPness back. An MBTI tribunal will then decide your fate.

Will there be cat nip :D

Seriously though, a few points:
- One might say a dominant thinking type would be more sensitive to an apparent lack of rationality thus possibly resulting in your assertion that others here are more rational. Perhaps a feeler wouldn't really notice it.
- I'm pretty much the same about not liking to call people jerks. Apparently, I'm a really 'nice' person. But then, if you think about it, calling people names is a bit of an ad hom and really has no place in a logical debate anyway. So, that's not very convincing either.

Yeah, I've thought I was an INFJ over 9,000 times but deep down I know it probably isn't true. (lol @ my use of 'probably' *sigh*)

Could you describe what shadow functions of INTP and INFJ surface when they are stressed out. I read that INFJ's hold there feeling in until ever little thing become a mountain out of a molehill. Thats what I do. On the positive side I am a good listener I help people with there emotional and situational problem all the time.
 

echoplex

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There should always be catnip.

hmmm, the part about mountain/molehill is something I've actually seen attributed to INTP's inferior Fe, holding things in until they explode. Either way, I don't think I'd make any distinction from that. INFJ's inferior is Se, so if you are particularly drained from external stimuli, facts, the physical world in general, etc., you might want to lean towards INFJ. INTPs are supposed to be 'good listeners' as well, though if you feel you are consistently energized by helping people with problems, providing emotional support, that would make higher Fe more likely imo.

Do you relate to Ni quite a bit? You'd pretty much have to if you're INxJ.
 

Black Rose

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Actual is more of a sad feeling I have than an agree feeling when things don't happen right. I like helping people when they respect who I am.

Attracted to symbolic actions or devices, Ni synthesizes seeming paradoxes to create the previously unimagined. These realizations come with a certainty that demands action to fulfill a new vision of the future, solutions that may include complex systems or universal truths. - Wikipedia

I don't quite understand this. I know I have creative ideas but mostly I tell people about them other than implement them because I am uncertain as to how. But when there is an opportunity I take it.
 

Words

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OK!!! Yeah, I am also in the process of INFJ discovery. No, I am not one. What I mean is Nini.

First Question: Can you sense your functions?? Can you feel it?? Damn, all these years have been like dreams. The moment of realization comes in a flash brought by collected small data. Ever entered a dream and somehow small details catch your attention and suddenly you realize that your dreaming? (And then you play around with your dream: destroying buildings, flying, changing landscapes etc.) This might sound utterly stupid but yep, I can sense my functions. 0.0!!!

Almost every effing minute, boom! Ne! If if if if if if if if iffffffffFFFF x???? (Hint: Si Dom get's annoyed by this.) Play videogames and see if you like to experiment a lot. This is why I fail in Chess, I also wonder things like "what if I put my King(Most important) over here, a very vulnerable spot!!". In socialization, "what if I punch this random guy over here? Hmm..", "what if I called them idiots?" Or "I am going to kick this kitteh and see what happens!" This type of thinking happens naturally or one could say "intuitively". If it happens to you, then you have Ne.

Ti is harder to identify but I'm just guessing it's just non-stop analysis.

Now, Ni. Adymus and the crew would probably say I don't have it if I have Ne but I digress. My understanding of it is like an "X" mark. The most important thing you have to learn about perceiving functions is that they're perceiving functions. They're meant to *see*. Wherein one can form a possibility with Ne(manipulation of object and oriented by object), one can perceive an object in a different angle with Ni(manipulation of subject-object and oriented by subject). Introversion boosts dependency against the object( e.g. Ti creates independent logic). Let's take the moon for example. My own perception is that "it's just the moon, circle and white". With Ni, however, you can "twist" that perception and it doesn't remain your "average", Si-moon. It becomes a raging fireball of death that will soon crush the earth after 10 years of strange metaphorical disintegration(Ok, perhaps that was Ne). But yeah, looking at things in a different angle but *not* changing their identifying forms is what I understand as Ni. You see a car from the front and then imagine seeing it from the back.

So, yes, Identify your own functions from your *own* observations. It makes it all the more gratifying.
 

Black Rose

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OK!!! Yeah, I am also in the process of INFJ discovery. No, I am not one. What I mean is Nini.

First Question: Can you sense your functions?? Can you feel it?? Damn, all these years have been like dreams. The moment of realization comes in a flash brought by collected small data. Ever entered a dream and somehow small details catch your attention and suddenly you realize that your dreaming? (And then you play around with your dream: destroying buildings, flying, changing landscapes etc.) This might sound utterly stupid but yep, I can sense my functions. 0.0!!!

Nope.

Almost every effing minute, boom! Ne! If if if if if if if if iffffffffFFFF x???? (Hint: Si Dom get's annoyed by this.) Play videogames and see if you like to experiment a lot. This is why I fail in Chess, I also wonder things like "what if I put my King(Most important) over here, a very vulnerable spot!!". In socialization, "what if I punch this random guy over here? Hmm..", "what if I called them idiots?" Or "I am going to kick this kitteh and see what happens!" This type of thinking happens naturally or one could say "intuitively". If it happens to you, then you have Ne.

This: Play videogames and see if you like to experiment a lot.
The rest, not so often.

Ti is harder to identify but I'm just guessing it's just non-stop analysis.

:slashnew:

Now, Ni. Adymus and the crew would probably say I don't have it if I have Ne but I digress. My understanding of it is like an "X" mark. The most important thing you have to learn about perceiving functions is that they're perceiving functions. They're meant to *see*. Wherein one can form a possibility with Ne(manipulation of object and oriented by object), one can perceive an object in a different angle with Ni(manipulation of subject-object and oriented by subject). Introversion boosts dependency against the object( e.g. Ti creates independent logic). Let's take the moon for example. My own perception is that "it's just the moon, circle and white". With Ni, however, you can "twist" that perception and it doesn't remain your "average", Si-moon. It becomes a raging fireball of death that will soon crush the earth after 10 years of strange metaphorical disintegration(Ok, perhaps that was Ne). But yeah, looking at things in a different angle but *not* changing their identifying forms is what I understand as Ni. You see a car from the front and then imagine seeing it from the back.

So, yes, Identify your own functions from your *own* observations. It makes it all the more gratifying.

My visual IQ is 117. Does that relate to Ni
I don't imagine things transforming into other objects. Just the way they are is what I see.
 

Words

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I'm sure you'll figure it out sooner or later.:)

This: Play videogames and see if you like to experiment a lot.
The rest, not so often.

I don't imagine things transforming into other objects. Just the way they are is what I see.

Well, I tried...:slashnew:

These two data points to INTP perception but I doubt there's enough validity there.

My visual IQ is 117. Does that relate to Ni

Don't know.
 

TruthSeeker

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Many of you might think this is BS but I now believe myself to be an INFJ. You guys and gals just seem so more rational than I. Its not that I wouldn't love to be INTP its just that I have to think about how I act in real life and not on the internet. I don't really care if you hurt my feelings even if that caricaturist of my type. I have learned just to take it with a grain of salt that NT's debate aggressively where as I cant even say someone is a jerk even if I really want to. If you have ever had experience with INFJ males I would like to here about it considering I believe I am one. Your input is appreciated.

I don't think all INTP's are bellicose, pedantic debate-junkies. I can't say I'm as drawn to debate as most people here are either, and find it very hard to insult people to their faces. I am blessed with critical thinking skills and the ability to be skeptical, but I'm sensitive as well. My more "stereotypical" INTP brother constantly makes fun of me for it. I hate to admit it, but I'm almost addicted to flattery - not because I want something, it just makes me feel good! I don't much like conflict and just want it to be over. So I have thought I might be INFJ as well, but I still lean INTP. I don't see any Ni in me, and I am not a natural planner and visionary (at least I don't think so; others tell me I am the latter and have high Ni scores in the cog. functions test). I don't see any conflict with my sensitive personality. I think it is because I have a weak F; if I act as a peacemaker, everyone will get along and I won't have to use the F! It seems like your traits are similar to mine, so based on those alone, and especially when taking your very "INTP replies" on this thread into account, I see no reason to suspect you're an INFJ.

But hey, I don't know you, so to help you out I put together some descriptions of two INFJ males I have known here (I have known several INFJ women as well, if you want more info). They were very, very different, which is good as it gives you more insight into the very diverse INFJ modes of behavior. However, you will see common threads.

NB. These descriptions may bias you to say INFJ (remember I said I was prone to flattery?) as at least one of them is very positive. If you really want to seek the truth, remember that there is a bit of an INFJ-chic going on at this forum (at least I seem to sense there is; that may be a bad judgment call as I have not been here very long). I know you said you would really love it if you were INTP, but it still may bias you towards saying INFJ as well. Focus on who you are, not who it's "cool to be".:)

One INFJ male I knew back in my Catholic high school. He was a vegetarian and a very spiritual person: a strong advocate of Buddhism in a traditional Christian realm and a champion of social justice. He was kindly and compassionate to everyone he met, even social pariahs, and never begrudged anything he did. He inspired many people to go vegetarian as well, but never judged anyone who didn't. He was introverted, but quite outgoing as well; he had wonderful social skills was and beloved by almost everyone. He was a fount of wisdom and a source of moral inspiration for us all. He was a visionary and leader, a hard worker and planner who would always take the initiative to organize events, usually for a humanitarian cause. He was highly introspective, and not at all afraid of the public. This was an almost Gahndi-like INFJ in terms of his charisma and presence: many people reported having a "feeling" after they spoke to him.

Another I knew was far more more introverted and quirky. I honestly thought he was INTP at first. He used to dress up in a pirate costume (he was the lifeguard at a children's camp I worked at). He was quite fickle, however, and sometimes trusted his psychic senses a bit too much. He claimed to know everything about a person just by looking at them, and his predictions came true almost all of the time. He was freakishly in tune with people; unfortunately this meant he judged people for things they had not yet done. A hard worker who would always go the extra mile and make a sacrifice. He would discipline his subordinates when they were not up to speed quite readily, but would always give people second chances and was very kindly. A very responsible person. But he was very quick to condemn others for doing something wrong, and claimed to be misanthropic in his early days. He had a well developed Ti, and could use it to ramble on about his favorite subjects. Loved dungeons and dragons and fantasy/sci fi. Put on a mysterious, dark, persona.

Anyways, I hope that helped. Good luck making the judgment.:)
 

Ska

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Do you think you switch perspectives a lot? I remember my INTJ friend telling me about his Ni...we walked into this pizza shop and he told me his immediate thought process was what they were thinking about - what would they be thinking/felling after working their all day? Once I understood this I could understand why INFJs are considered"deeply empathetic" - Their Ni gives them the thought process/perspective of the individual while their Fe can pick up on their feelings and invokes similar feelings in themselves. I can't think of any better function combination for empathy.
 

Black Rose

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@TruthSeeker @Ska

I do have allot of empathy and this makes it difficult sometimes to be in heated situations. I cannot help but tell people why they act the way they do and this has lead many people to love or hate me for it. So I keep quite around those I think will be offended by it. I do make plans but I like being in a group to accomplish them. The problem is I feel hurt when no one listens to my suggestions. They think I'm trying to take control when really I just want to find the best solutions. I do not like groups with a single leader that discredits my ideas.
 

snafupants

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Enough of the hearsay, post a video! It need not put Stanley Kubrick to shame, just have yourself on screen for minimum two minutes, preferably talking and not just :auburn:.
 

Black Rose

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I'm thinking INTJ.

Have you viewed many INTJ videos on youtube? Or are you basing your thoughts on other experiences you've had with INTJ's. :)
 

snafupants

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Well, asked Adymus if he would have a look. He has become like The Wolf character - Harvey Keitel - from Pulp Fiction. Things will be set straight shortly...

The Wolf: You're... Jimmie, right? This is your house?
Jimmie: Sure is.
The Wolf: I'm Winston Wolfe. I solve problems.
Jimmie: Good, we got one.
The Wolf: So I heard. May I come in?
Jimmie: Uh, yeah, please do.

Adymus will be in his chair like, :matrix:, maybe taking a swig from his coke and having a stretch midway through, but for the most part, :matrix:.
 

Ska

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Are you sure you are not an E? You seem very engaged with the camera the whole time. I'm thinking ENTP, which would explain why you would have a more developed feeling function than an INTP.

I know I have creative ideas but mostly I tell people about them other than implement them because I am uncertain as to how.

That sounds ENTP to me.

An ENTP you would be more concered with using your Ne to come up with ideas and the analysis (Ti) would be secondary and take a back seat. I've also read that ENTPs are constantly seeking people to bounce their ideas off of and I'm guessing ENTPs get very upset when their ideas are not being appreciated (which you posted something about).
 

ckm

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Have you viewed many INTJ videos on youtube? Or are you basing your thoughts on other experiences you've had with INTJ's. :)

No, just based on the video you posted. Not based on my experience of INTJs. I think I see a lot of Ni, and some Fi and Se. As for Te, I view it as the absence of Fe.
 

Black Rose

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No, just based on the video you posted. Not based on my experience of INTJs. I think I see a lot of Ni, and some Fi and Se. As for Te, I view it as the absence of Fe.

What makes you think I lack Fe? If I may ask?
 

snafupants

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What makes you think I lack Fe? If I may ask?

He is right; please do not flip your shit. Definitely can rule out INFJ though. Wait...what was that? The almighty Adymus at the gates of your thread?

:kinggrin:
 

Black Rose

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Are you sure you are not an E? You seem very engaged with the camera the whole time. I'm thinking ENTP, which would explain why you would have a more developed feeling function than an INTP.

That sounds ENTP to me.

An ENTP you would be more concered with using your Ne to come up with ideas and the analysis (Ti) would be secondary and take a back seat. I've also read that ENTPs are constantly seeking people to bounce their ideas off of and I'm guessing ENTPs get very upset when their ideas are not being appreciated (which you posted something about).

Actually I talk to people to develop my ideas because creativity works better in group settings. It helps me generate more ideas then I could on my own. I do not really have a mind exploding with ideas. I like taking single ideas and refining them. Meditate on them if you will.
 

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Actually I talk to people to develop my ideas because creativity works better in group settings. It helps me generate more ideas then I could on my own. I do not really have a mind exploding with ideas. I like taking single ideas and refining them. Meditate on them if you will.

That sounds Ti-Ne right there

I cannot help but tell people why they act the way they do and this has lead many people to love or hate me for it. So I keep quite around those I think will be offended by it.

This also sounds INTP. Perhaps you are an INTP, and your mind initially gravitated to brutal honesty, but you now restrain yourself due to negative experiences?
 

snafupants

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That sounds Ti-Ne right there



This also sounds INTP. Perhaps you are an INTP, and your mind initially gravitated to brutal honesty, but you now restrain yourself due to negative experiences?

Case closed?
 

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You don't seem like a 'rational' in Jungian terms. You come off as an INTP and not an INFJ imo.

Oh, I type using socionic's cognitive function model, so that rational/irrational above comment might confuse some.
 

Adymus

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You have Ni/Se eyes with the lean toward Ni, and you are an Fe user, but your Ti is running at maximum capacity so it's no question why most people in this thread missed that (His use of Fe is extremely subtle.)

This might be hard for you (and everyone in this thread) to believe, but I think you might just actually be an ENFJ. Somebody else pointed out that you are very engaged, and they are right, you are too inviting and engaging to be an Ni dom.

I've seen ENFJs with extremely strong Ti before (one of them in particular also thought he was an INFP), I met a few of them not too long ago that I found hard to read at first just because I didn't see it coming. One of them was even into "NT stuff" like computers and programming, so I actually wondered if there was any of this kind of ENFJ on INTP forum, because I can see how they would easily mistake themselves for an INTP.
 

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Hey Adymus, is it possible for you to type me if I submit a video? I'm 99% certain I'm an INTP but I just want to make sure. I'm sure you get asked this all the time, so I won't be offended if you say enough is enough, lol.

And is it possible for you to tell how well developed my various functions are? I think I have a well developed Fe but if I don't I wouldn't mind knowing so I can get to work on it.:)

I know, I know, you're not a wizard, but I've been fascinated by your posts on typing people through eye movements and all that. It validates a lot of hunches I came across independently.:)
 

Black Rose

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Thanks for your analysis Adymus.
 

Black Rose

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Wait, wait. Does it make sense to you? How accurate is Fe-Ni-Se-Ti to you?

If my definitions are correct than yes I would say they are in this order because of how often I use them.

Extraverted feeling (Fe) Politeness?
Introverted intuition (Ni) Problem solving?
Extraverted sensing (Se) Reflex?
Introverted thinking (Ti) Precision?
 

ckm

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Hm. Didn't think that was Fe. Oh well. The Fe-Ti conflict must be exhausting.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned you're allowed to stay whatever your type.
 

Saoshyant

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It is potentially dangerous to your mental happiness trying to be one temparment when you are really another. (I.e. An introvert dominant trying to become an extravert in a social situation not being 'active.') Look into it more, but I'd say your defintions two posts above are way off. So believing Adymus' psuedo-science is playing with fire. Beware!
 

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Do the following: ask yourself what taxes your energy more (intro/extroversion); read through eight or four type profiles depending on how far you can break your type down; and look at component parts (Fe vs. Fi). Solely relying on Adymus, or anyone that is not yourself, for the final decision is beguiled.
 

Ska

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Solely relying on Adymus, or anyone that is not yourself, for the final decision is beguiled.

Are you saying that the self is always the best indicator of type? I would have to disagree...I would say someone such as Adymus who is very educated on this subject is, on average, better at reading most people than themselves.

This is really an interesting situation. As Adymus guessed, I'm having a hard time comprehending how an ENFJ could be so Ti heavy. How is this natrual at all, at least according to the theory? I know, obviously, that the theory can be wrong and probably is in many aspects, but this is so backwards it's unbelievable. Like I've read and someone else warned here, heavy use of functions that are inefficient, unstimulating, and underdeveloped can lead to severe stress other problems. So if someone is in real danger of that by being mis-typed, how is a scenario like this possible?
 

snafupants

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Adymus does not have a window into every experience. Please mark that final decision was used. The verdict should corroborate your internal feelings and energy levels and modes of negotiating reality.
 

Black Rose

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Do the following: ask yourself what taxes your energy more (intro/extroversion); read through eight or four type profiles depending on how far you can break your type down; and look at component parts (Fe vs. Fi). Solely relying on Adymus, or anyone that is not yourself, for the final decision is beguiled.

By my understanding I need constant stimulation. I am not ADHD but I get bored if my mind is not occupied by external things, thats a reason I'm addicted to the internet. Waiting in lobby's frustrates the Hell out of me. I read books better when I'm at parties than at a quite library. When I was a child I had low self esteem because I wanted to be an inverter but no one in my family or school wanted to mentor me. My dad left my mom when I was 6 so a male figure was not there for me. I avoided people because I thought they did not care. Fe makes me feel good about myself so when I was unable to express it I got depressed. My personal problem have now almost been resolved. I am socializing more and I no longer feel frustrated if I not good at things that are impossible for me to reach mentally.

I feel like I understand myself allot better thanks to your post snafupants and to express it to others.
 

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Are you saying that the self is always the best indicator of type? I would have to disagree...I would say someone such as Adymus who is very educated on this subject is, on average, better at reading most people than themselves.

This is really an interesting situation. As Adymus guessed, I'm having a hard time comprehending how an ENFJ could be so Ti heavy. How is this natrual at all, at least according to the theory? I know, obviously, that the theory can be wrong and probably is in many aspects, but this is so backwards it's unbelievable. Like I've read and someone else warned here, heavy use of functions that are inefficient, unstimulating, and underdeveloped can lead to severe stress other problems. So if someone is in real danger of that by being mis-typed, how is a scenario like this possible?
While I am interested in seeing how Animekitty feels about my analysis, I also agree that self-analysis should not be the final verdict; you will not necessarily agree with your personality type, especially if your understanding of said personality type is based on descriptions and people you know who are also that type.


It's pretty rare, but it happens. Many people behave in ways based on how their external environment has rewarded or penalized their behavior. Because of this, you see many types developing lopsidedly, because one of their lower functions received more validation* than their higher ones. In our society you mainly see this happen in dominant intuitive and dominant feeling types, and intuition and feeling can both be misunderstood, unappreciated, or less useful in environments that reward logic and concreteness. Technically any personality type at all could develop like this, but it is not very often that you see it in dominant thinking or sensing types, although it is entirely possible if they grew up in the right, or in this case wrong environments.

*When I say "external validation or penalization" this includes but is not limited to validation by one's peers. Validation can come from anything really, anything that tests you on what "works" and what doesn't "work".

I would disagree that being mistyped puts you in serious danger of becoming stress locked, just because most people don't change their behavior in any drastic ways when they are typed, so chances are they were already stress locked before they were mistyped. However, mistyping a person only perpetuates what made them stress locked in the first place, so it is best to get it right. Therefor I suggest you all take that into serious consideration before typing a person based on how they "seem to be behaving."

So yes, an ENFJ that is heavily over-modulated by Ti is entirely possible, like I said, this would not be the first time I have seen it. Anime Kitten does not appear to be as gripped by his Ti as I have seen in other cases (One other ENFJ that practically couldn't even articulate straight because he would not let go of his Ti. Even his Ti checks looked insane, his eyes would practically roll in the back of his head when he used Ti, just from the sheer amount of effort and energy he was putting into it.) Although I can see that it is holding back his ability to articulate, he can naturally articulate much faster and fluently than he was in that video if he was speaking in his more natural Fe style (without Ti checking everything he is saying.)
 

Cegorach

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I'm going to take a bit of a leap of faith and suggest EFP (Xe - Fi - Te - Xi)
'X' symbolizing an unknown variable.

Though I must point out that being F does not equate to being irrational, emotional or polite and friendly; what it actually signifies is that your mind naturally orients itself towards Values, as opposed to Principles in the case of a T.


Value orientation is a bias towards that which is of an affective regard that acts as a basis of conduct, theory or attitude.


Principle orientation is a bias towards fundamental perceived laws or rules that act as a basis of conduct, theory or attitude.


A function's directional orientation (Extraversion or Introversion) denotes whether it orients itself Externally or Internally.


Fi directs itself Internally and, as such, orients itself as a separate entity from the values of others, it's most comfortable with deriving its values from its own perceptions and principles.
However, a fundamental misunderstanding of Fi is that it does not participate in any form of communion or is egocentric and selfish; obviously this is incorrect, as it is more than capable of attempting to understand other individual's own unique values and sympathize with them as they are.

Fe directs itself Externally and, as such, orients itself as part of a larger web of values; contrasting and evaluating other's values in an effort to assimilate, direct and control those most appropriate.
It is relevant to note that Fe doesn't have to be group-think, rather it's oriented towards a more objective pool of information due to its External Directional orientation.


As well, there is an exceptionally vast difference between a Perception (Ne, Se, Ni, Si) Dominant and Perception Auxiliary, like the difference between a filter (Perception Dominant) and an influence (Perception Auxiliary).



However, if you actually are an Extraverted Perception Dominant as I suggested, then defining Ne and Se will be quite appropriate in forming a solid basis for understanding of your type.

Ne|Se: Indiscriminate perception of external, transient, inter-related Abstract|Tangible information.​

It needs to be understood that this is Ne and Se in an isolated state; like any Perception function it is not used for Judgment and is entirely indiscriminate in its disposition.
However, functions toss ideas and problems back and forth like a scalding hot potato and permeate one another into an often indistinguishable state.

I would really delve into considering whether you're oriented towards Abstract Perception or Tangible Perception.
I find many Ss believe themselves to be Ns because they have misconstrued ideas about N equating intellect.


------------


Short Description of EFP:


In using your functions hierarchy as an EFP you'll very often find that you wish to keep your options open so you can learn through experiences as they happen, sorting through which of them you can see as valuable to your distinct situation in that particular moment and thriving in contrasts between what is right for this moment and the next.

You may be bothered by those who make attempts at setting down rules with a less ephemeral stance that make an attempt to identify rules of conduct that are longstanding, though depending on your level of function development you may see some value in this, particularly if they are not forced.
Those with strong worldviews are going to get under your skin in particular.

In all likely-hood you would have a 'live and let live' philosophy; each to their own fits you perfectly and ultimately you want to do what you want to do, what feels most right to you in that moment.
Though should you value another enough you may temporarily allow your own values to be superseded in such a way that you've decided between their momentary happiness and your own and chosen that their happiness was of higher value to you.
Although if they subvert your values too often you may be forced to reevaluate your value of them and even possibly come to resent them, regardless you may feel like they don't value you as much as you value them.


The idea of taking from a pool of values may trouble you a little, only if you can see some Principle based reason as to why their values are logical for you and your life would you even consider integration, but given extreme circumstances you will derive values from your Te after it has adequately evaluated their Principle oriented worth.


------------


But honestly, I haven't paid much attention to your posts and am, as I said, taking a leap of faith based on ones that I do happen to recall.

Longevity and emphasis of observation from somebody who actually understands typology are going to give you an accurate assessment like no form of real-time typing will and anybody who gives you an instant evaluation, including myself in this case, should be taken with a grain of salt.
 

Black Rose

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Cegorach you said

Fe directs itself Externally and, as such, orients itself as part of a larger web of values; contrasting and evaluating other's values in an effort to assimilate, direct and control those most appropriate.

I see this as what I do. It could be said that when some one is defenseless against bad values I tell them there perspective is valued by me even if I disagree with it. Its the person thats important, value differences can be worked out latter. I hate people that push there opinions on others but rarely am I not polite in telling them to stop what they are doing.

I think that I am now ENFJ but that a hunch that fits better with any personality I have examined. I think that many MBTI online tests fail to convey to me what type I am is because of the ambiguity of the questions asked. They do not ask what happens in real life situations about you such as; How would you react if a waiter dropped food in your lap/floor.

I would help them clean it up and try to to them I wont complain to the manger about it.

Instead they ask questions where you need many dictionary's and the comprehension of the people that have written them just to know why principles and values are not the same thing. I never made a distintion between the two before. :rolleyes: So I am more concerned about the practical application of the MBTI that can be applied to how I act in a 5 question multiple choice format that is not a dichotomy.

Not yes vs no but

Who What When Where and Why

I feel so complex as a person that the constraints of one liner questions are fickle to describe me. Words was doing an excellent job using whole paragraphs as a single question. Even thought I believed they were not enough of them. I leave you with this;

A wise man does not have the right answers but instead asks the right question - Quote from some sort of book I read on Greek philosophy
 

DesertSmeagle

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Who cares what personality you are.. seriously ..its just a label..and sometimes it even make you do things your unbiased self wouldnt do.
 

TruthSeeker

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Cegorach you said

Fe directs itself Externally and, as such, orients itself as part of a larger web of values; contrasting and evaluating other's values in an effort to assimilate, direct and control those most appropriate.

I see this as what I do. It could be said that when some one is defenseless against bad values I tell them there perspective is valued by me even if I disagree with it. Its the person thats important, value differences can be worked out latter. I hate people that push there opinions on others but rarely am I not polite in telling them to stop what they are doing.

I think that I am now ENFJ but that a hunch that fits better with any personality I have examined. I think that many MBTI online tests fail to convey to me what type I am is because of the ambiguity of the questions asked. They do not ask what happens in real life situations about you such as; How would you react if a waiter dropped food in your lap/floor.

I would help them clean it up and try to to them I wont complain to the manger about it.

Instead they ask questions where you need many dictionary's and the comprehension of the people that have written them just to know why principles and values are not the same thing. I never made a distintion between the two before. :rolleyes: So I am more concerned about the practical application of the MBTI that can be applied to how I act in a 5 question multiple choice format that is not a dichotomy.

Not yes vs no but

Who What When Where and Why

I feel so complex as a person that the constraints of one liner questions are fickle to describe me. Words was doing an excellent job using whole paragraphs as a single question. Even thought I believed they were not enough of them. I leave you with this;

A wise man does not have the right answers but instead asks the right question - Quote from some sort of book I read on Greek philosophy

Very well said. But I would go even further. Even if the questions were perfectly defined, type is based on unconscious tendencies, not behavior, and as such answering 100% on every dimension would not necessarily mean anything.

Even that soup example you gave wouldn't be great despite its precision. I'm no ENFJ (unless I'm a very strange one), but even being completely honest, I would react exactly as you did. Maybe it's just because I hate coming across as an asshole, maybe because of INTP apathy. I dunno. My point is, two different types could do the same thing in the same situation for two very different reasons.
 

TruthSeeker

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Who cares what personality you are.. seriously ..its just a label..and sometimes it even make you do things your unbiased self wouldnt do.

I can't disagree more with the "just a label" bit (unless, by that, you mean "worrying about who you are doesn't change your type, so don't worry if it hurts you more than it helps", in which case very wise words), but I cannot tell you how much I agree with the second. But I'm still very much a person that is always "in the process of becoming". Not just growing in my type, but growing as a person. The second, I think, is far more important.
 

Cegorach

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Cegorach you said

Fe directs itself Externally and, as such, orients itself as part of a larger web of values; contrasting and evaluating other's values in an effort to assimilate, direct and control those most appropriate.

I see this as what I do. It could be said that when some one is defenseless against bad values I tell them there perspective is valued by me even if I disagree with it. Its the person thats important, value differences can be worked out latter. I hate people that push there opinions on others but rarely am I not polite in telling them to stop what they are doing.

Very well, I don't wish to spend too much time sorting through your posts in order to get an accurate view of you as I'm a little low on energy; I'll take your word on this based on the fact that Fe hardly seems that unlikely.

As a matter of fact I think I understand how it could have appeared like you were using an Extraverted Perception function more prominently.
There was an instance of another individual on this forum, of who I suspect to be an ESFJ, using their tertiary Ne more readily in response to the Ne-heavy environment it was at the time, particularly in the part of the forum they frequented.
I'm doubting it's important to go into detail about why that is though as Adymus has outlined enough of it in his previous post
.


Animekitty said:
I think that I am now ENFJ but that a hunch that fits better with any personality I have examined. I think that many MBTI online tests fail to convey to me what type I am is because of the ambiguity of the questions asked. They do not ask what happens in real life situations about you such as; How would you react if a waiter dropped food in your lap/floor.

I would help them clean it up and try to to them I wont complain to the manger about it.

So what you're saying is that you learn best when you orient Tangibly.

Can you tell me why you believe you're iNtuitive/Abstract?
Thus far I've seen nothing indicating such; what I said about delving into whether you orient tangibly or abstractly still stands, even as I get a better grasp on your other orientations.


I'll even give you some definitions:

Abstract: thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances.

Tangible: thought of in reference to concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances.


Honestly, I'm leaning ESFJ more than ENFJ at the moment.

Animekitty said:
Instead they ask questions where you need many dictionary's and the comprehension of the people that have written them just to know why principles and values are not the same thing. I never made a distintion between the two before. :rolleyes: So I am more concerned about the practical application of the MBTI that can be applied to how I act in a 5 question multiple choice format that is not a dichotomy.

Not yes vs no but

Who What When Where and Why

If you need a dictionary to understand exactly what an individual means that could reflect back on your own incompetency; never should typology be put into simpler terms than it actually is, if it's not understood by an individual in its full, accurate form then they should not be utilizing it in the first place.

Of course most online definitions do not refine their definitions nearly enough nor explain them thoroughly in a logical order of occurrence, mostly they just explain manifestations of functions and ignore the process. Sort of like you're suggesting be done.

As well, Adymus I'm sure will agree when I say that you need to put MBTI out of your mind when dealing with typology, it will do nothing but destroy any actual understanding of what you're dealing with and fill your head with irrelevant stereotypes.

Animekitty said:
I feel so complex as a person that the constraints of one liner questions are fickle to describe me.

Everybody seems to feel that way, don't they?

But regardless of how complex you are, your complexity will be made up of a multitude of distinct pieces, each of which can be defined and evaluated.

Animekitty said:
Words was doing an excellent job using whole paragraphs as a single question. Even thought I believed they were not enough of them.

How unfortunate that he has an inadequate understanding of that which he's defining then.

Animekitty said:
I leave you with this;
A wise man does not have the right answers but instead asks the right question - Quote from some sort of book I read on Greek philosophy

What a fine oversimplification of a rather complex concept.

Even that soup example you gave wouldn't be great despite its precision. I'm no ENFJ (unless I'm a very strange one), but even being completely honest, I would react exactly as you did. Maybe it's just because I hate coming across as an asshole, maybe because of INTP apathy. I dunno. My point is, two different types could do the same thing in the same situation for two very different reasons.

Exactly.
 

DesertSmeagle

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I can't disagree more with the "just a label" bit (unless, by that, you mean "worrying about who you are doesn't change your type, so don't worry if it hurts you more than it helps", in which case very wise words), but I cannot tell you how much I agree with the second. But I'm still very much a person that is always "in the process of becoming". Not just growing in my type, but growing as a person. The second, I think, is far more important.
It really is..As long as you keep an open mind and dont let the label control who you become, its fine. I used to be like this, and tested as like an isfp because for some reason at the time i wanted to be one or something..but then i got real, and recognized bias...and now im fukin awesomme...ohh yeeaa
 

Adymus

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It really is..As long as you keep an open mind and dont let the label control who you become, its fine. I used to be like this, and tested as like an isfp because for some reason at the time i wanted to be one or something..but then i got real, and recognized bias...and now im fukin awesomme...ohh yeeaa
I'm just going to throw this out there:

The MBTI tests are extremely inaccurate, granted, but in your case, ISFP seems a hell of a lot more likely than INTP.
 

Cegorach

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I'm just going to throw this out there:

The MBTI tests are extremely inaccurate, granted, but in your case, ISFP seems a hell of a lot more likely than INTP.

Ha, that's exactly what I was thinking. Some sort of SP at very least. ;)
 
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