If I weren't so interested in theories and introspecting... (ISFJ)

[KazeCraven]

I swear, as little as 5-6 years ago (age 14) half of the description for ISFJ (at least for the description here) would fit me to a T. Except for the stuff about gift giving and having trouble with abstractions, and missing the fact that I had my head in the clouds all the time, there really isn't much missing to that description. Hell, I hardly remember anything other than other people's (and my) feelings up until around 9.

Yeah, I had my nose in novels several hours a day, and I played lots of strategy games (RPGs too), but c'mon. I considered myself 'logical' because I was good at number crunching, but that was just basic algebra and arithmetic! Maybe I just developed my symbolic processor early on, and talked myself into the rest of it because I got social approval for being so smart. Plus I had an almost archetypal genius INTP older brother who had all kinds of theories to tell me about, so maybe that had everything to do with my strange development. We played make-believe (i.e. discussion-type RPG, usually involving Pokemon or something), so he was pretty much my best friend, and I used him as my role model for like the first 8-10 years of my life.

This is disturbing on multiple levels. Excuse me while I wallow in my WTFness.


Oh, and if you read the first sentence and declared BS, I must tell you: this is not a joke.

 

[MidnightGino]

It's weird, I used to type as an ISFP a while ago and it would fit me well too, but now I'm INTP and the description fits me perfectly. We need Adymus's typology knowledge

 

[Razare]

I believe children usually start out with F, almost always and then T is later developed. For an INTP, T is just going to happen very early. At least this is what I've heard on this forum before, that essentially all types start out F.

 

[MidnightGino]

I believe children usually start out with F, almost always and then T is later developed. For an INTP, T is just going to happen very early. At least this is what I've heard on this forum before, that essentially all types start out F.

Hmm... Makes some sense, actually.

 

[ShipwreckSilence]

I hardly remember anything other than other people's (and my) feelings up until around 9.

When I was younger I felt like I was very empathetic and aware of others feelings and my own. When I got older though, and really started to understand what emotions were and the deep/strong effect they had over people, I discovered I had a surprisingly tiny amount of emotional understanding. Now, in my case, I've realized that the reason I understand so much about what is going on in other people's heads is that I'm very observant of patterns in the way people act. By comparing the logical way for a person to be acting at a given moment to how they are actually acting, I could deduce how people felt, even when they themselves were unaware. I can even tell a lot of the time when someone else is using a friends phone to text me or something like that.

This may not be what you are talking about but I feel like I see a lot of INTPs refer to feeling like they have a strong F when they're actually doing this.

 

[Jedi]

They say we're born into our type, but I'm not so sure. I had much stronger F characteristics as a child and it wasn't until a series of bad events in my teens that Thinking seemed to become dominant. If I were a feeler I would have most certainly gone mad. There also seems to be some correlation, from my own observations, between a troubled childhood and introversion.

 

[IndigoSensor]

When you are in the process of growing up, it is not out of the question to appear as different types them the type you currently are. The thing is, as you grow up, your brain is quite plastic and has the abillity to morph and change. I am very much on the nature side of the nurture vs. nature argument. However, if you grow up appearing like an ISFP then you suddenly end up in a war torn country and have to fend for yourself at the age of 9 (then assume you survive to adult hood) you could very well develop into an ENTJ and actually go through life as that type, and possibly be healthy. External pressures (and I really do not like saying this) at a younger age will push you into one type over another, which eventually is locked in place in the late teenage year or 20's in some cases.

I think a person is born with a set of possible types they could be come. Some people might have access to many different possibillites then others. The idea I hold in my head the most is that a person can become one of four different types as the grow up. It is often set down pretty early on, but can take time. For you the fact that you said you appeared as an ISFJ makes sense. You were (again this is all a theory of mine) born with four functions, Si Ti Ne and Fe. As such you had the potential to become an ISFJ, ESFJ, ENTP or INTP. No one function really took charge for a while. You sort of bounce between different orders of these for a while, then based on who you are, and your external world, you locked onto Ti>Ne>Si>Fe.

 

[snafupants]

When I was younger I felt like I was very empathetic and aware of others feelings and my own. When I got older though, and really started to understand what emotions were and the deep/strong effect they had over people, I discovered I had a surprisingly tiny amount of emotional understanding. Now, in my case, I've realized that the reason I understand so much about what is going on in other people's heads is that I'm very observant of patterns in the way people act. By comparing the logical way for a person to be acting at a given moment to how they are actually acting, I could deduce how people felt, even when they themselves were unaware. I can even tell a lot of the time when someone else is using a friends phone to text me or something like that.

This may not be what you are talking about but I feel like I see a lot of INTPs refer to feeling like they have a strong F when they're actually doing this.

completely agree with the end conclusion. i have fallen into that trap before myself; i think it becomes more convincing as a lie and easier to buy into the more developed that intuition dimension is - mine in very developed. there was a point, not too long ago either, where i surmised that because i was in tune with others feelings, motivations, and deeper thoughts that i must be an empath, a feeler.

its hard to sift through because on one hand i do want to achieve emotional closeness to people - and i even let my guard down to do it - but on the other i am always aware of that cold, analytical voice in my head telling me that this action, or this turn of phrase will produce that result. the motivation seems to be what can this person do for me rather than pure feelings, theirs or mine. in my heart of hearts - alright, mind of minds - i am only superficially congenial and gushy only occasionally...underneath i am icily searching for answers and i dont really care about myself or others...just give me that damn answer.

spinning back the clock, i think i was isfp as a child. i displayed few if any of the qualities i do now, for better and worse. the only constant i can pin down is introversion. i was more unquestioning when younger, which was a blessing in a way, and more willing to trust people emotionally. i think logic is learned in the face of how unfair the world is, the knowledge that each person at the end of the day fends for him or herself is a heavy impetus to think rationally and act independently.

 

[KazeCraven]

@Razare: I guess it makes sense that people will tend to develop into their type, particularly if they end up not as an F-type.

When I was younger I felt like I was very empathetic and aware of others feelings and my own. When I got older though, and really started to understand what emotions were and the deep/strong effect they had over people, I discovered I had a surprisingly tiny amount of emotional understanding. Now, in my case, I've realized that the reason I understand so much about what is going on in other people's heads is that I'm very observant of patterns in the way people act. By comparing the logical way for a person to be acting at a given moment to how they are actually acting, I could deduce how people felt, even when they themselves were unaware. I can even tell a lot of the time when someone else is using a friends phone to text me or something like that.

This may not be what you are talking about but I feel like I see a lot of INTPs refer to feeling like they have a strong F when they're actually doing this.

Hmm, yes I agree with quite a lot of this.


@Indigo: That's an interesting idea. I tried reading ISTJ and INFJ for comparison, but istj was way too focused on facts & objective reality whereas infj... sounds way too assertive (not to mention that Ni descriptions usually leaves me scratching my head). When you say this is a theory of yours though, are you saying that this is something you've developed as part of your theories about people, or that you read this thread and came up with an explanation?


Hmmm, I guess I never really considered SJ types because I would go by reading cognitive processes, whereas Si sounds like super good memory (which I didn't have). It's funny that the ISFJ description starts with "ISFJs have a rich inner world..." because that takes all the focus away from outside details and thus sounds a whole lot like me (when I was younger, at least).

Which reminds me: is there a place for more accurate type descriptions? Yeah, I know Adymus talks about how bad and undeveloped they are, but the cognitive processes by themselves take a little thinking to piece together into a personality. Or maybe the idea that one can accurately 'describe' a type with a description is just a bad idea in general.

I'm surprised that two people here seemed more ISFP when younger.

EDIT: I should add that this isn't me questioning my type anymore. This is me trying to poke holes in the theory as best as I can, starting from the subject I know most about and working my way out.

 

[Adymus]

Plus I had an almost archetypal genius INTP older brother who had all kinds of theories to tell me about, so maybe that had everything to do with my strange development.http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?p=181499#post181499

aahhhhh, the plot thickens!



We actually are born with our personality types, however the different families, cultures, and genders we are born into heavily effect how our cognitive functions develop.
Especially at young ages, cognitive functions developed based on how much validation we were given when we used these cognitive functions, or by how much we were invalidated by using other cognitive functions.
We will always have our natural preferences and hierarchy configurations, but we are not always validated for our natural preferences, and our lower less preferred functions sometimes receive more validation than our higher functions.
Because of this factor, we don't often develop in the ways that are most naturally energy efficient for our personalities, and we take on behavior that might seem out of character to our personality types typical repertoire of behavior. This however is not perminant, and anyone that has developed outside of how their personality should have naturally developed can put their psyche back into balance, as long as they as the find themselves another environment that is more conductive to their natural abilities.

Kaze, I think what happened with you is the niche of INTP was taken by your older brother. It is really hard to shine with your natural abilities when your shine is constantly being dwarfed by someone older and more experienced/developed then you. So from being in an environment where you couldn't get as much validation from your natural preferences, because you have someone using those natural preferences much better than you are, you begin to start developed the functions that you can validation from, taking on a niche of your own. If your brother has Ti-Ne covered, then you will developed what he is not as proficient with Si-Fe.

This is almost exactly how it played out for me as a Kid. My older ENTP brother used to run Ne circles around me, and whenever I tried to show my Ne around him, I would get a "No that's lame" kind of response. So I started focusing on my Si, because Si was something I could certainly do better than him (Which is also why I have a very strong Si right now).
Although, this was the cause of a lot of unhappiness as a kid, and my Fe was also a bit unstable from the amount of stress it was constantly subjected to. I didn't actually gain confidence in my Ne until after high school where I was able to get away and carve out my own space in the world.

 

[KazeCraven]

That's... a very interesting explanation.

Of course, since you only have a paragraph to go by, your explanation pitting me against my brother is a little off, especially considering that my brother still had a much more developed Si than I did, but the part about using cognitive functions for validation makes perfect sense from what I know about child psychology. Though since his Si was focused on setting up a base for his Ti to work with, it would make sense that my Si would be primarily focused on Fe-type concerns. I could come up with all kinds of explanations for this, but in short it seems to me that it had lots (everything?) to do with validation.


Well, damn, if children are going around falsifying their type because of sibling/peer interactions, how are we as parents (future) supposed to cultivate type development? Guess I'll just have to keep a close eye on what the first inclination is...

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

Well, damn, if children are going around falsifying their type because of sibling/peer interactions, how are we as parents (future) supposed to cultivate type development? Guess I'll just have to keep a close eye on what the first inclination is...

Appreciate their natural talents when they display them? Though, of course, I can see one trying to help kids develop other cognitive functions.... Aw, hell. Why don't we just let kids work it out for themselves? That's how we did it.

 

[KazeCraven]

Hmm, yeah I suppose so. I guess it's more of an issue of being aware that lots of ways of being are okay rather than being concerned that the children are going the wrong direction.

 

[snafupants]

maybe if the child always seems deflated using "normal", societally approved functions (e.g., feeling over thinking), an assumption can be made that that function is subordinated to a less respected function in that particular childs hierarchy. totally agree with yall, let the kids be kids and dont project your personality onto the youngsters (, for self validation?)