If I am not being objective I regret being so emotional.

[Black Rose]

In the wake of my almost not being able to control myself, I have come to the conclusion that I should not participate in certain venues of discussion because in those discussions I have been made the object of personal indiscretions about what I think and about what I believe and about the way I expressed my views and opinions. I do not think that it is wise of me to continue trying to rationally argue with people who make me the target of mischaracterization and lack of integrities.

In this matter, I decided I will keep silent when people start doing so and at my own discretion simply say I cannot in good will continue with such indiscrete biases being projected at me. If I come to terms with what others have said it will be because I no longer value the need to keep up with people's inability to self-reflect. I can if I have a tranquil presence become less harsh about other's thoughts about me but I must not let such situations like has happened spiral into inappropriate diaologs which are and should be unacceptable here on this forum.

If I seem to be going off course I would appreciate people telling me how I should be more rational and not berate me so much for the slight misalignment of wordings, phrasings, and overall composition of what I said. Please do not look towards me as bad or intentionally trying to offset the atmosphere of what is going on in the moment. I cannot keep up with such disharmony as I have seen recently and I am not sure if I can keep composed without deciding to take these measures of ignoring specific acts I feel are discriminatory against me and others.

That is why I appreciate people's tolerance and I hope to become more tolerate myself.

 

[scorpiomover]

There is no problem with expressing opinions.

You come up with ideas all the time.

But come up with your ideas. You have to expect that people will question what you say some time.

If it's not your idea, and not an idea that you would have probably thought anyway, then if you join the bandwagon, then you'll be questioned as if it's your idea, when you never really understood it at all anyway.

Why defend something that you don't believe in?

 

[Black Rose]

The difference between Ti and Te is tricky to navigate.

Te always wants you to show your work and what the consequences of events a and b are.

That means they see things as cause and effect.

If x happens then y happens - an objective truth of the way the world is.

The world is what it is yet Ti says Te is bad for claiming an objective reality exists.

Ti cannot divorce a person from their ideas. All ideas are logically valid in some universe. Te wants to be objective meaning is divorced ideas from himself and only cares about what "can happen" in "this universe'". That way they can plan and keep from being taken over by the forces of this reality.

Ti cannot separate themselves from their thoughts making everyone else to them seem like they can't either. This creates tensions, You are bad because you "defended" idea x. Ti has to make ideas about morals in persons trying to be objective about reality.

No, it is simply that in objectivity if the world is a certain way then it is that way regardless of what people think. The Te person is not defending some "idea". They are defending the concept that a shared reality exists that can be known and whose rules cannot radically change just because it seems we have ideas about it being different. All we can do is understand what happens if we make changes to this world in the ways the rules of the world dictate.

Therefore Te cares about the consequences of any action that happens in the world and must resist the notion that this universe does not exist with all its rules and facts. The antagonism people have towards an objective reality just has to be dealt with on the part of the Te person.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Look BR you spend so much time on this forum that you barely can be objective to be honest.
I spend one 100th of time and that is already too much for me.

 

[Black Rose]

The first criterion for being objective is not to attack the manager.

But this will happen anyway and must be accounted for.

As long as nothing wrong has been done by that person they cannot be blamed in any way.

I like to be here on this forum because it gives me stuff to do.

I cannot do stuff in real life so I must find some other way to satiate my need for cognition.

Sometimes this is difficult because I have ADD and am not always consistent in the way I learn things or in what I am learning.

Sometimes I have energy and sometimes I do not and this happens with a variety of tasks.

I do not spend all my time here but only a third of my time (4 hours a day).

I like being productive and writing is the only way I can be.

If ADD were not an issue I might be doing something different though.

Everyone's ADD is different and expressed differently so this is how I express myself.

Not to say I will be this way forever, I only recently got over my depression so life is getting better.

Once I clean my house and buy my new computer I think I will be able to do the research to cure the ADD as well.

Currently, I am in a transition phase where I have nothing to do.

I must keep from sinking into a depression again.

because In the past, I felt I had no purpose.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Wow I aint reading that wall of text.
I am just saying if you expect emotional support by talking ideas, but expect people to agree with you or like your ideas, INTPf is not the place.
Do not talk politics, or religion or idea topics to connect with people, not unless you expect some degree of disagreement. Or find people who agree.
The point being you go to prison to get emotional support, you are setting yourself up.
Not that people on forums cannot or should not be supportive.

But it seems you cannot wrap your head around people disagreeing with you.
Its simple.... they just do.
You also don't have to defend everything with walls of text, or talk about every nuance of it, but technically there is degree of emotional investment that is rational, and there is degree that is just too much.

 

[Black Rose]

It is not about agreement or disagreement

that is not objective

my concern is that people personally attack me

and this would be fine if I were mature enough to handle it

so I will strive to become mature in order to not feel threatened by irrational people

 

[Black Rose]

BR: I think religion is this way (X) and reflects reality in way (Y)

Person A: You are wrong because reason (X), people who believe reason (X) are stupid, there for BR is stupid.

-

This is what I mean: if people believe I am bad for the way I reason about things then no matter what I say I am always wrong in their view no matter how neutral I am.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

In your niche situation I would prioritize grounding your speech into conventional language everyday people use.

Of course some things are too complex to bother, but as I have said before, I often have to decode what you're writing based off of what I think YOU are trying to say.

opening AK BR speech decipher 3.04.exe

Most people when they read what anyone is saying, they see what they want to see, in a manner of speaking.

If you can ground what you mean to say in a simplistic, conventional way, then anyone who means to add their own bias to build the argument you made is just going to look dumb.

 

[ZenRaiden]

It is not about agreement or disagreement

that is not objective

my concern is that people personally attack me

and this would be fine if I were mature enough to handle it

so I will strive to become mature in order to not feel threatened by irrational people

Ok well the way you feel about stuff will not change online to be honest.
You cannot become mature emotionally by interacting here really.
You do that in real life with people you trust.
It takes time to override some emotional stuff.
That said if you feel attacked personally, and that bothers you that is fine.
Its not unusual. Its normal, hence why personal attacks are not OK.
But I think you over identify with stuff.
Ergo RB not everything people say is meant literally, but to illustrate a point, if someone says you are stupid and its on internet you need to see that differently.
Everyone literally everyone gets called stupid or attacked all the time.
Its not pleasant for anyone, but the point I am making is its very common behavior, not escapable.
Seek company of people who respect you in real life.
So you don't have to feel overwhelmed by people on the internet.

 

[Black Rose]

I never really "defend" certain ideas.

All I do is tell people they are misrepresenting others and that's not cool.

I care about objectivity which means dishonest people will hate me.

 

[Black Rose]

If you can ground what you mean to say in a simplistic, conventional way, then anyone who means to add their own bias to build the argument you made is just going to look dumb.

I have to help my roommate go to Colorado but their car is broken.

During the group meeting of my social workers, I had to say that they were not intentionally trying to delay moving out. They broke both arms last year and do not want to be here. And that I do intend to help them move so they can be happy where they want to be.

When people make judgments about me or other people that are not true it makes me upset.

 

[scorpiomover]

When people make judgments about me or other people that are not true it makes me upset.

So when other people are positively judging you or other people, you get upset?

Would you prefer that people ignore you completely, and treat you like you like you don't exist? Would you prefer it if everyone here ignored your posts and threads?

 

[scorpiomover]

The difference between Ti and Te is tricky to navigate.

Te always wants you to show your work and what the consequences of events a and b are.

That means they see things as cause and effect.

If x happens then y happens - an objective truth of the way the world is.

The world is what it is yet Ti says Te is bad for claiming an objective reality exists.

Ti cannot divorce a person from their ideas. All ideas are logically valid in some universe. Te wants to be objective meaning is divorced ideas from himself and only cares about what "can happen" in "this universe'". That way they can plan and keep from being taken over by the forces of this reality.

Ti cannot separate themselves from their thoughts making everyone else to them seem like they can't either. This creates tensions, You are bad because you "defended" idea x. Ti has to make ideas about morals in persons trying to be objective about reality.

No, it is simply that in objectivity if the world is a certain way then it is that way regardless of what people think. The Te person is not defending some "idea". They are defending the concept that a shared reality exists that can be known and whose rules cannot radically change just because it seems we have ideas about it being different. All we can do is understand what happens if we make changes to this world in the ways the rules of the world dictate.

Therefore Te cares about the consequences of any action that happens in the world and must resist the notion that this universe does not exist with all its rules and facts. The antagonism people have towards an objective reality just has to be dealt with on the part of the Te person.

Sounds like you think Ti-users never evaluate what they think, never question, never consider alternatives, just make up castles in the sky, have no care about the consequences of their actions, and are just generally scumbags.

Do you think that ISTP car mechanics make up castles in the sky, ideas that have no relation to the real world?

Do you think that INTPs don't consider the consequences of behaviour such as you find in logic?

Do you think that saying such things about ISTPs and INTPs makes sound terrible?

What do you think of people who say terrible things about INTPs and ISTPs? Would you say they are good people?

You first apologise for being so emotional, and then say horrible things about INTPs, when this is a forum for INTPs.

Either you intended to say horrible things about the majority of people on this forum, or you don't consider the consequences of your actions before speaking and end up saying lots of horrible things to people.

Moreover, the things you seem to say here about INTPs and ISTPs, are the sorts of criticisms I used to read on the internet about stereotypes of INTPs and ISTPs.

 

[Black Rose]

the things you seem to say here about INTPs and ISTPs, are the sorts of criticisms I used to read on the internet about stereotypes of INTPs and ISTPs.

hmm...

I might be wrong on that one...

my emotions are still kind of raw.

sometimes a certain type of person goes around trying to represent the total of a type's features, like INTP, and they corrupt other people's view of that type.

if so, please stop acting like the stereotype, you give IxTP's a bad name.

 

[scorpiomover]

the things you seem to say here about INTPs and ISTPs, are the sorts of criticisms I used to read on the internet about stereotypes of INTPs and ISTPs.

hmm...

I might be wrong on that one...

my emotions are still kind of raw.

Who is at fault then? Who benefits from changing what they say to being something that is NOT offensive?

sometimes a certain type of person goes around trying to represent the total of a type's features, like INTP, and they corrupt other people's view of that type.

if so, please stop acting like the stereotype,

If I have made you upset so much, and I am acting like the stereotype of an IxTP, then you believe that the stereotype of an INTP is one that would upset you greatly.

In that case, then since this is a site for INTPs, then before you joined, you would have believed that if you joined this site, that there would be hundreds of INTPs here would each would have upset you as much as I have, and thus you would have believed that if you joined this site, you would have been made to be upset over 100 times as much as you are upset now.

So if what you are saying is true, you would have NEVER joined this site.

So clearly, what you are saying is out of spite of hurt feelings, and does NOT in any way represent your true beliefs about the stereotypes of INTPs.

you give IxTP's a bad name.

I'm standing up for things that matter, which the stereotype of INTPs never do.

If having a backbone gives INTPs a bad name, then INTPs NEED that bad name. Men need a backbone to get a girlfriend. Who wants to date someone who will not stand up for what is right?

You most likely came here, because given the sterotype of INTPs is that they don't stand up for what is actually true and actually matters, you thought that you'd be able to say anything you felt like without calling you out on it.

Now you're seeing someone questioning and analysing your claims, showing they are bogus, and you don't like it.

I recall you also wrote that you joined a tech forum, and they also criticised you. Now I can see why you thought they did not like you.

They liked you well enough, as did I.

But you thoughtlessy say horrible things, and then when someone else points it out, you go on the defence and blame THEM for the problems you caused by the things you said.

If you really want people to like your ideas, then why not actually think "Is this offensive to some people?" and "Is this going to upset someone else?" before posting, and then amend it to something more reasonable and more moral.

Then the people on that tech forum will like you, and will like your ideas, and I will too. Even people IRL will like you, and will be happy to hear your ideas.

But if you persist in saying things that greatly upset and hurt others, then you'll just keep making people dislike you and not want anything to do with you.

 

[Black Rose]

different things offend different people

obviously, when I say anything anyone could be "offended".

that is why I left the INTJ forum, they did nothing but fight with each other

no, there is a difference between being a shithead and actually helping people with their ideas. challenging people just to piss them off is not constructive.

so it could be you think you are helping but you are not,

I would be permabanned on that tech forum acting 20 percent the way you have here. I tried to defend myself, to have a backbone there but they hate centrists.

you're not here to help me you are here to dismantle me. (like pod'lar did)

if it were anywhere but INTP forum you would have done things much much worse, here the rules allow people to have rational discourse but I have no doubt that under any other circumstances, you would have said horrible things to me in ways that similar people would approve and gang up on me.

you cannot just say I am wrong you need to destroy me in any way possible as the rules allow. that's not rational, and you're motives against me are not rational.

How old did you say you were, 54, and you feel this need to hate people so much?

Arguing just to argue shows you don't care, if you cared you'd explain my errors not exemplify them.

That is exactly what happens when people become crooked inside.

Anyone can see on the forum all the ways in which you have tried to twist things to make me look bad.

No one else is attacking me but you personally.

Don't bother responding if you want to just twist things further.

 

[ZenRaiden]

my concern is that people personally attack me

Yes, because on internet people can write anything they want including personal attack.
Your only job is to evaluate whether that is acceptable to you.
That said personal attacks are different from attack ideas.
Idea - sky is blue.
Personal - I love blue sky
Personal attack, people who love blue sky are stupid.
Idea - sky is not blue = disagreement.

Also you don't have to defend from personal attacks to be honest.
Its the internet.
Literally there are celebrities rage quitting internet, because someone attacked them.
Well that is like expecting the whole world to respect you, by default.
Ain't gonna happen.
It does not even happen in real life.
So you don't actually have to take every personal attack personally.