if Fe is supposed to drain me...

[shoeless]

then why am i so sensitive to others' emotional needs?
why do i have such an urge to help people/save people in emotional distress, rather than merely understand them? why do i want to be a therapist?
why do i constantly crave social contact? hugs and conversation?

am i just a freak of INTP nature?



(lol, mbti-crises are hilarious.)

 

[cheese]

It's cuz you're a wumman.

 

[shoeless]

maybe.

i've been wanting to have a kid lately too. which is bad because i'm only gonna be seventeen in a month. FUCK.

but it's not because i love babies or anything, babies are annoying as hell. mainly i've just been taking an interest in parenting, because of some of the stuff we've studied in sociology, and i have some theories regarding parenting methods that i'd like to try out. it's like raising a pokemon, except it's real!

...so, yeah. but that's besides the point.

 

[Chronomar]

Perhaps your Fe is abnormally developed for an INTP? That would (generally) be seen as a good thing.

...Or maybe who you see yourself as (and therefore how you answered the questions on the test) and the actions you display in your actual life are different in that aspect, in how you relate to others. This discrepancy is usually seen as a bad thing, but I think it is just natural.

...woah. Wait, "hugs"?! Never mind. You're just a freak.

 

[shoeless]

well i know about the developed Fe thing, but generally that just means you're better at utilizing it than other people. it's still supposed to drain you. logic dictates that i should be pursuing things that stimulate my Ti/Ne rather than Si/Fe, but alas.

by the way, hugs are fucking awesome. it's one of my favorite pasttimes.

 

[fullerene]

It's cuz you're a wumman.

it's like raising a pokemon, except it's real!

lmao! These responses alone were enough to make me happy I'm awake at 4:30 in the morning.

 

[Adymus]

The only way shoeless would be "abnormally" developed would be if healthy is an abnormal trait.

Fe is the most draining function for an INTP, there is no doubt about this. That however is not to say that we are going to avoid it completely. In fact, many of us try very hard to work on it as much as we can, we see it a challenge to master that part of ourselves. Needless to say, this is a very healthy path. This is why many types approach their Inferior functions in a very fetishy way: INTPs who like acting, improv, and giving speeches. INTJs who are into racing. INFJs who are into martial arts. the list goes on and on.

Simply put, you crave social contact because you understand the value and importance of it. Had you been an INTP with poorly developed Ne, then this might not be the case. But you do understand that social contact is crucial to learning and understanding people.

I think you are at a point were you have figured out that ultimately, the INTP's product is Fe. Sure, we do our modeling mainly in Ti and Ne, and that is what gives us the energy to call the lower functions into action. But ultimately the last step is to take our understanding and knowledge and to give them to the world, turning it into something objective that can be applied to all people.

This is not abnormal, and it is not different from other types. For instance, the INTJ is drained by Se more than anything. But they get the biggest feeling of reward when they see their Ni-Te designs come to life when they put in the work to turn it into Se, a physical reality.

INTPs have a very similar peak pathway, we get our biggest sense of heroism when we can Take our theories and understandings, and push them so far that we can actually share them with the world.

Fe is not just our cryptonite, it is our target. It is farther away from us than anything else, but it is what we aim for.

I relate to what you are saying completely by the way. I actually help teach people about themselves and theory behind their personality at weekly meet ups on Saturdays. Yeah, mustering up the Fe to actually articulate my thoughts to people is extremely draining for me, but the sense of heroism I get for it just gives me more energy to do it again.

 

[shoeless]

hmm.
makes sense i guess.

but something still doesn't seem quite right. i can't put my finger on it.
like, it seems like a job like therapist should be given to somebody with a natural proficiency in it. almost like it's an injustice for me to become one. because you know, as much as i crave it, i'm still pretty damn awkward.

(not that i ever gave much of a thought to injustice. it's not gonna stop me -- it just seems off-color.)

 

[Words]

Your not alone.

I suspect its the values?

 

[Adymus]

The way I see it is like this:

If a person can push hard enough to actually reach into their inferior functions to produce something, then it will always be valuable in some way. There were many steps that were taken to get to that inferior function, which means it will be backed by so many different cognitive functions that they will have more to offer than a person who only used two or three functions to get there.

If it feels right, then you are on the right track, that is all that matters. Life was never supposed to just be a cake walk, were you were supposed to just stay in your comfort zone the whole time. I suppose you can if you like, but you have to leave your comfort zone to find the best parts of yourself.

 

[Words]

This is why many types approach their Inferior functions in a very fetishy way: INTPs who like acting, improv, and giving speeches. INTJs who are into racing. INFJs who are into martial arts. the list goes on and on.

Explains my father's(weak Se) strange drive for sports. Can you elaborate on this "fetish"? Why? From where? How many people? The effect on the hierarchy of functions?

 

[Adymus]

Explains my father's(weak Se) strange drive for sports. Can you elaborate on this "fetish"? Why? From where? How many people? The effect on the hierarchy of functions?

"Fetish"

Fetish because it is something that we usually have no relation toward, yet we care a lot about in a very fetishy sort of way. For instance, an INTP does not relate well to Fe in general, and the whole concept is pretty alien to us, yet there are still Fe challenges that we push very hard at to get good with. They are things that we know we are going to have a lot of weaknesses in, so we push extremely hard to make sure we win.

Why?

Because that is just how our drive to develop ourselves manifests at times. And because we get an immense backlash of validation when we actually do it well and succeed.

From where?

The cognitive functions of course, where else?

How many people?

First off, how could I possibly know that, secondly, who cares?

The effect on the hierarchy of functions?

Well it begins in your dominant function, let's take me for example as it would be the easiest. So I start out with my Ti working on a theory or conceptual model, and then using Ne to gain more information and expand on my theory to gain more insights into how it works. Then I start using Si to relate everything I am working on to my own experiences and how my theory has related to me in the past. Then once my theory has been tightened up, I log this new theory into my Si, as it is now one of my known facts, and a part of my worldview. Then I reach into Fe to actually articulate and relate my Si to people, going back and forth to Ti and Ne so I can improvise new ways of explaining my ideas, which then ends up giving me even more new insights in the process, thus sustaining the cycle.

 

[Words]

Why?

Because that is just how our drive to develop ourselves manifests at times.

1.Where does this "drive" come from?
The natural want for sharing and contribution? But what if that "want to share" didn't originate from Ti+Ne+Si but because of a care for society and others?

2.Is it correct to say that everyone has a "fetish" on their inferior function?


3. Is there a "fetish" on the other functions? tertiary? Can the "fetish" result into having a strange development of functions wherein Fe becomes developed than Ne? Is that possible?

 

[Adymus]

1.Where does this "drive" come from?
The natural want for sharing and contribution? But what if that "want to share" didn't originate from Ti+Ne+Si but because of a care for society and others?

2.Is it correct to say that everyone has a "fetish" on their inferior function?


3. Is there a "fetish" on the other functions? tertiary?

1. It comes from the amount of validation that we get when we were able to successfully "win" at these fetishes. It has nothing to do with wanting to help people, it is the feeling of heroism that one gets when they defeat their weaknesses. It has more to do with the Archetypes than it does the exact cognitive function, but the fetish itself mainly pertains to the inferior. As the "shadow" is like that dragon that we must defeat in our heroes journey.

2. No, not really, but people can pick them up at different times in their lives.

3. No, we don't really view concurring our tertiary as a very heroic feat as we do concurring our inferior.

EDIT, new part to number three: No that is not possible.

 

[Words]

It has nothing to do with wanting to help people, it is the feeling of heroism that one gets when they defeat their weaknesses.

1.So, INTP's do not have a direct cognitive reason to help people? but instead it's because of defeating a weakness.

2. Do EFJ's have this direct cognitive reason? helping people.


3. Could this "fetish" be one possible reason why "Obama got into Harvard"?

 

[Adymus]

1.So, INTP's do not have a direct cognitive reason to help people? but instead it's because of defeating a weakness.

2. Do EFJ's have this direct cognitive reason? helping people.


3. Could this "fetish" be one possible reason why "Obama got into Harvard"?

No they do, but it isn't only about defeating a weakness and the main reason is not about helping people directly, it is about completing the personal peak pathway that the personality types go through when they have found something that are passionate in perusing. So it is in service to their Ti, but they aim to send it down the pipeline of their functional hierarchy all the way to their inferior.

2.Yeah, it's called being an Fe dominant. Helping people stimulates them... Come on man, that should have been obvious.

3. That is not really what I mean when I say fetish, because it is usually not a goal that you set for you life, it is more like something you do (which is mainly more of a hobby) because you enjoy the validation from defeating your weaknesses.

 

[Words]

2.Yeah, it's called being an Fe dominant. Helping people stimulates them... Come on man, that should have been obvious..

...just making sure. Phew, if this is all true, Personality Types draws very distinct boundaries...

 

[shoeless]

so your perception of the functional hierarchy revolves around psychological egoism?

that's fine, though i'm not sure i necessarily agree with it a hundred percent. i do believe people can be motivated to be altruistic without necessarily doing it out of their own self-interest.

i'm not saying that's me necessarily, because frankly i don't know -- i've never particularly felt that "heroism" or whatever from Fe-ing it up, but i don't have that much practice, so... for me, it seems (emphasis on seems) like my urge to help comes more from the desire to provide the understanding for people that i never received, and to reduce suffering, rather than masturbate my ego. but again. i don't know.

so, yeah, anyway. interesting stuff.

 

[Adymus]

so your perception of the functional hierarchy revolves around psychological egoism?

that's fine, though i'm not sure i necessarily agree with it a hundred percent. i do believe people can be motivated to be altruistic without necessarily doing it out of their own self-interest.

i'm not saying that's me necessarily, because frankly i don't know -- i've never particularly felt that "heroism" or whatever from Fe-ing it up, but i don't have that much practice, so... for me, it seems (emphasis on seems) like my urge to help comes more from the desire to provide the understanding for people that i never received, and to reduce suffering, rather than masturbate my ego. but again. i don't know.

so, yeah, anyway. interesting stuff.

It would not be accurate to say that this is "egoism". Yes, you are going to be drawn toward the things that stimulate your dominant function, but your reasoning is not necessarily self-serving. The way that you view what your personality is that it is producing something noble. I am suggesting that people are motivated by "The will to shine." This is similar to Nietzsche's "Will to power", however he made the mistake of assuming everyone is going to have a "will to power" in the same way he does. It is not necessarily power all personalities are after, but rather, a will to be great in whatever it is that stimulates your personality.

Obviously you are getting enjoyment and validation for what it is you are doing , and if you were not, you obviously would not be doing this. But as I said, you will still also see your Will to shine as a noble cause, and something that needs to be done, for more than just you.

 

[Anthile]

Hm, this thread assures me of the fact that I'm not a Fe person.

 

[Crazythinker1]

To me, it's about confidence. We all want to feel good about ourselves and if we venture outside our comfort zone and do somthing that is difficult for us and we succed then that makes us feel good and gives us confidence. Adymus, you know this stuff much better than I do but am I essentially correct here?

 

[intuitivet]

maybe.

i've been wanting to have a kid lately too. which is bad because i'm only gonna be seventeen in a month. FUCK.

but it's not because i love babies or anything, babies are annoying as hell. mainly i've just been taking an interest in parenting, because of some of the stuff we've studied in sociology, and i have some theories regarding parenting methods that i'd like to try out. it's like raising a pokemon, except it's real!

...so, yeah. but that's besides the point.

Now I want a child so I can evolve it into a dragon or something.

My Fe is pretty high too. I've been told I'm very caring and generous. Maybe your family/friends have effected you? My sister is amazingly caring and all my friends (bar two) are F's, I think mostly Fe's. Being around Fe's would probably cause you to become more aware of your own Fe and maybe cause it to develop.

 

[shoeless]

not a single Fe in the family. mom/brother are INFP, dad/brother are ESTJ, and brother is INTP (supposedly, but whatever he is it isn't caring).

the INFP's in my family have been sort of squashed by the ESTJ's, and so are constantly put on the defensive -- it hasn't been until very very recently (parents' separation) that they've been able to sort of come out of their shells and be more... F-ey.

so i don't think that's it.

probably has to do with my ex-ENTJ-boyfriend. he was seriously fucked up, man.

 

[intuitivet]

not a single Fe in the family. mom/brother are INFP, dad/brother are ESTJ, and brother is INTP (supposedly, but whatever he is it isn't caring).

the INFP's in my family have been sort of squashed by the ESTJ's, and so are constantly put on the defensive -- it hasn't been until very very recently (parents' separation) that they've been able to sort of come out of their shells and be more... F-ey.

so i don't think that's it.

probably has to do with my ex-ENTJ-boyfriend. he was seriously fucked up, man.

Hmm, how is it related to your ex? I had one of them too, bad times.

 

[shoeless]

eh, long story. in short, i really cared about him, but he had issues that i couldn't fix no matter how hard i tried. so yer.

 

[Dormouse]

Now I want a child so I can evolve it into a dragon or something.

Yessssssss.

I'll evolve mine into a gryphon and they can BATTLE.


That said, I'd guess my Fe is pretty active since I've got quite a bit of empathy going, but it's been like that all my life. Can you be born with one over-developped function?

'Cause I sure as hell didn't have Ti as a young-one. I mean, logic was pretty much alien to me...

Though I kind of think that's just a kid thing, nobody's rational at age six.

Meh, rambling.

Shoeless, you aren't a freak of nature. REMEMBER THAT I LOVE YOU.

Spoiler

Yay! A spoiler!
I love these things. Every post should have one.
Hmm... I'm thinking I should stop being creepy and long-winded.

 

[Irishpenguin]

Fe is still a tad bit confusing to me, just a tad.

The bit about parenting was interesting though. I have often thought of what it would be like if I had a little brother and how I would go about being a role model and guiding him a bit. I'm not sure if this is my Fe though since part of it is kind of like, I guess like a "What would it be like if I was in my older brothers position?" But I was still intrigued by what I might do and how I would handle it if I did have a little brother.

Having a child however, like a baby that is actually...mine?...no.....just no.

Spoiler

Just for you Dormouse...just for you

 

[Sparrow]

Fe is still a tad bit confusing to me, just a tad.

The bit about parenting was interesting though. I have often thought of what it would be like if I had a little brother and how I would go about being a role model and guiding him a bit. I'm not sure if this is my Fe though since part of it is kind of like, I guess like a "What would it be like if I was in my older brothers position?" But I was still intrigued by what I might do and how I would handle it if I did have a little brother.

Having a child however, like a baby that is actually...mine?...no.....just no.

Lolz. I prayed for a little brother all my childhood. Gave up 4-5 years ago. Sisters are nice and all but only if they're older sisters. Younger sisters are a pain in the ass. I wanted a little brother so I could mentor him and we could talk about random stuff and be random and we'd go on walks and stuff, play sports. , sadly, it never happened .

I'd be the greatest, goofiest, wackiest, craziest dad of all time

Yes, I love kids. I adore babies, I don't know why. Children are beautiful, innocent and it would be awesome to raise a kid...Babies up to age 7...

No, I am not a pedophile grr

 

[Dormouse]

I have often thought of what it would be like if I had a little brother and how I would go about being a role model and guiding him a bit.

Little brothers are punching bags.

I actually love children. Especially at that stage, about age four through seven, where they no longer require the upkeep of babies and are beginning to learn not to throw tantrums.

And you know, they begin talking. They're just learning to articulate, no filter whatsoever. Some funny stuff comes out.

 

[Sparrow]

Muhaha...I was watching this video...toddler was throwing a tantrum and she wanted her mommy...so daddy came in and slept with the toddler in the crib. The toddler stopped crying. Adorable XD

I'd be that kind of dad luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulz.

 

[Cavallier]

Hm, this thread assures me of the fact that I'm not a Fe person.

Ditto.

I can do it. That's about it. Afterward I'm tired. Care worn, beaten down, want to be a hermit for years, don't give a shit, make me talk to you and I'll kill you, don't want to do anything but live under a rock tired. I have succeded with stepping out of my comfort zone and done well. However, I don't get that warm fuzzy feeling of satisfaction. I've learned something and I do feel more confident doing it in the future. However, it's still exhausting and ultimately makes me a bit irritable.

Okay, so a lot of people lately have been getting pissed off when somebody calls their INTPness into question. I'm not simply denying that you are an INTP Shoeless. I'm merely suggesting that you might consider the idea that you are possibly not an INTP. Please don't get pissed with me. While I do think that having well developed shadow functions is healthy I still think that at the end of the day Fe should leave you feeling tired/worn out.

Is this true? If so then you are an INTP and being able to pull of Fe just shows that you are well developed. If it does not tire you on some level then you are not an INTP. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that there is no such thing as a "freak INTP" so much as there are people who are INTPs and people who are a different type. No harm done.

Also, personally, hugs kind of suck. I like hugs from only one person on this planet. When anybody else hugs me (including my parents) I just sort of freeze up until it's all over with. People apparently like to hug. Weirdos.

Lastly, I think I might trying having a carpet slug some day. Just not in the near future. I turned to my boyfriend yesterday and said that he would have to find somebody else to give birth to his demon spaun.

 

[shoeless]

why would i get pissed? that's just silly. what am i, some kind of INFJ! posh!

anyway, i frequently question my INTPness, but i'm like 90% sure i've got it basically right. i am certainly drained with prolonged Fe exposure (after the fact, at least), but the point was i still constantly crave that exposure, which is what doesn't seem to line up with, well, most INTP's (it seems).

 

[Jesin]

This sort of thing is why I don't use MBTI theory much anymore.

mainly i've just been taking an interest in parenting, because of some of the stuff we've studied in sociology, and i have some theories regarding parenting methods that i'd like to try out.

You know that whole thing where you get really interested in a project, do it for a while, and then eventually lose interest and move on to the next thing?

That would not work well with kids.

 

[Mary]

I completely understand what you're saying. I want to make people happy. But only people I like. It's weird. I don't completely understand it. But basically I try to understand what would make them the happiest then I do it, and I get overly excited if they like it.

Dormouse: I love children at that age. They say the most ridiculous things. My sister and I go out 'children watching' and just stare at weird kids doing the silliest things. I'm not even joking.

Most of them know me by now. They just love piling on top of people. I once had 6 three year old boys trying to get a piggy back at the same time.

Cavallier: I have questioned my INTPness many times. Sometimes I act like an INFP around my friends, but when I'm in my 'thinking mode' I act like a complete INTP. I figure I'm somewhere in the middle, but I tend to identify with INTPs better than INFPs.

anyway, i frequently question my INTPness, but i'm like 90% sure i've got it basically right. i am certainly drained with prolonged Fe exposure (after the fact, at least), but the point was i still constantly crave that exposure, which is what doesn't seem to line up with, well, most INTP's (it seems).

YES. Exactly. I want to be nice but afterward I have to rest. Or I go loopy.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Okay, about hugs. I was pretty nervous or not good about them a couple years ago. Ya know- when I was a kid it was fine, but then i became a teenager, got weird and seperate. But I've come back to giving good hugs. I dunno. I try to make them not-awkward for my brother & dad, who clearly find them a little awkward. I don't feel awkward!

I think part of it was the feeling that I WANTED to be hugged. Which made hugging much nicer. I dunno.

I also learned how to have really awesome hugs with my ex-gf. That was kinda like boot camp.

 

[Adymus]

Ditto.

I can do it. That's about it. Afterward I'm tired. Care worn, beaten down, want to be a hermit for years, don't give a shit, make me talk to you and I'll kill you, don't want to do anything but live under a rock tired. I have succeed with stepping out of my comfort zone and done well. However, I don't get that warm fuzzy feeling of satisfaction. I've learned something and I do feel more confident doing it in the future. However, it's still exhausting and ultimately makes me a bit irritable.

Okay, so a lot of people lately have been getting pissed off when somebody calls their INTPness into question. I'm not simply denying that you are an INTP Shoeless. I'm merely suggesting that you might consider the idea that you are possibly not an INTP. Please don't get pissed with me. While I do think that having well developed shadow functions is healthy I still think that at the end of the day Fe should leave you feeling tired/worn out.

Is this true? If so then you are an INTP and being able to pull of Fe just shows that you are well developed. If it does not tire you on some level then you are not an INTP. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that there is no such thing as a "freak INTP" so much as there are people who are INTPs and people who are a different type. No harm done.

Also, personally, hugs kind of suck. I like hugs from only one person on this planet. When anybody else hugs me (including my parents) I just sort of freeze up until it's all over with. People apparently like to hug. Weirdos.

Lastly, I think I might trying having a carpet slug some day. Just not in the near future. I turned to my boyfriend yesterday and said that he would have to find somebody else to give birth to his demon spaun.

I think you are and Shoeless are talking about are two different things. You seem to be just referring to straight Fe use, like going to work and dealing with people all day. What I think shoeless is talking about is essentially using Fe on her own terms, using Fe in such a way that is expressing something that is stimulating to her Ti and Ne. The ladder is completely different experience and is much more gratifying. It still drains us, but to a much lesser extent, and in such a way that does not just feel like a waste of energy.


I vouch 100% for Shoeless being INTP, not just because I also relate to what she is talking about. But yeah, usually having your shadow functions being pushed on with little to no pay back would leaving you completely drained and worn out at the end of the day. Using your inferior functions pursuing something that you are passionate about, technically does still wear you out a bit, but over all experience was gratifying enough to want to do it again.

In Olympic Weightlifting, the competitor has to lift the barbell off the ground and over their head in one smooth and continuous movement. To do this they must move their body in unison, starting with gaining momentum from stronger muscles like the legs, so they can have the propulsion to lift with the torso and then the arms. If the weightlifter started with the arms alone, it would probably not get very far, and maybe pull a muscle.

This same principle can be seen with how we use our functions. If we just use straight Fe, without any Ti-Ne to back it up, then it is just a tiresome chore. But when we actually gain momentum by Stimulating Ti and Ne, then we can use that energy to propel our Si and Fe, to do something that is over all very satisfying.

There are so many different intricacies that go into how we use our functions, even our inferior functions, that MBTI fails to make people aware of. Seeing people excel in fields where MBTI suggests that they would fail because of an inferior is not an uncommon thing at all.

 

[Adymus]

That said, I'd guess my Fe is pretty active since I've got quite a bit of empathy going, but it's been like that all my life. Can you be born with one over-developed function?

No, they are like muscles, you are born with pretty much all of them undeveloped. Although your mom was probably a big influence in developing it early.

'Cause I sure as hell didn't have Ti as a young-one. I mean, logic was pretty much alien to me...

Though I kind of think that's just a kid thing, nobody's rational at age six.

It is not that you were not using Ti, but that your Ti's logic was not very logical in the way we understand it now. Ti Logic is not objective, it is a completely subjective understanding of what does and does not make sense, and it is subject to change over time.

 

[Dormouse]

No, they are like muscles, you are born with pretty much all of them undeveloped. Although your mom was probably a big influence in developing it early.

Alright, I'd kinda figured she'd have had something to do with that, especially since I'm the eldest and therefore got 100% of her attention. Still, I feel cheated out of emotional apathy.

It is not that you were not using Ti, but that your Ti's logic was not very logical in the way we understand it now. Ti Logic is not objective, it is a completely subjective understanding of what does and does not make sense, and it is subject to change over time.

Oh, now that's interesting... Hmm. I have much to ponder.

 

[Adymus]

Alright, I'd kinda figured she'd have had something to do with that, especially since I'm the eldest and therefore got 100% of her attention. Still, I feel cheated out of emotional apathy.

Really? It was just the opposite with me, I was the youngest, and that's why I got 100% of her attention.

 

[Dormouse]

That's bizarre... My parents ran out of steam for the two others. Their attention was way split between the three of us, but perhaps that's because we were fairly close in age.

It's odd, if you take baby photo albums, there are five for me, about one for my younger brother and barely any pictures at all taken of the youngest.

 

[Sparrow]

That's bizarre... My parents ran out of steam for the two others. Their attention was way split between the three of us, but perhaps that's because we were fairly close in age.

It's odd, if you take baby photo albums, there are five for me, about one for my younger brother and barely any pictures at all taken of the youngest.

My mother obsessed over me. There are at least 40 baby pictures of me. There are perhaps 10 of my sister. Err. Meant 5 albums. Yeah.

 

[uth]

why would i get pissed? that's just silly. what am i, some kind of INFJ! posh!

anyway, i frequently question my INTPness, but i'm like 90% sure i've got it basically right. i am certainly drained with prolonged Fe exposure (after the fact, at least), but the point was i still constantly crave that exposure, which is what doesn't seem to line up with, well, most INTP's (it seems).

Have you taken a function test? It may show that your Fe or Fi is more developed than expected. It's also another way to confirm that you are INTP.

 

[Adymus]

Have you taken a function test? It may show that your Fe or Fi is more developed than expected. It's also another way to confirm that you are INTP.

Dude, no it isn't...