If Everyone Is Beautiful?

[Thurlor]

I realise that I have no way of knowing if anyone here actually believes that 'Everyone is Beautiful', however this is one of the few communities I have ANY involvement in so I figured I'd ask this question here.

If everyone is beautiful does that mean everyone is physically attractive? If a person claims everyone is beautiful when they actually mean everyone has value would they be able to admit that not everyone is physically attractive?

I am not beautiful and I would be offended if people tried to placate me by claiming I am.

 

[The Gopher]

Well obviously not everyone is beautiful. Neither physically or emotionally nor intellectually. Thankfully I'm all three so if anyone wants to get in the line to date me let me know and I'll see if I can fit you in.

 

[Cognisant]

I don't mean to belittle fat people... Okay apparently my subconscious does but consciously I try to be a politically correct person, sometimes, after all at 95kg I'm no thin man myself.

But this whole "everyone is beautiful" thing is just such utter bullshit, it's a half-assed solution to a delicate issue, it's so much easier to give insincere compliments to fat/ugly people than to contend with the fact that as a society we are by nature and culture shallow & superficial fucks.

 

[Hadoblado]

and I'll see if I can fit you in.

Your got room for 3.25 inches of pure domination?

 

[nanook]

beauty comes from being natural and so many if not most people have unlearned to behave in natural ways. as much as being fat is caused in part by being completely misinformed about what sort of food is tolerable for human bodies and by the fact that healthy food is rather hidden away in stores, natural behaviour would minimize the physical impact of such an outside factor and even natural people who are physically compromised are still better looking (physically, not subjectively) than unnatural people with roughly comparable types of compromise. acting naturally shows in folds that are created from smiling. it maximizes sun exposure. it implies that someone is sleeping more, which improves many details in the skin. unnatural people make bad/neurotic decisions which will often show in their clothing style. being natural implies a different body posture. specific behaviors of natural people are more elegant. so one person with 30kg of body fat looks kind of sexy and the other person with 30kg looks like a zombie. the natural person eats their fattening fast food and enjoys it, so watching them is equally enjoyable, the zombie eats like a pig.

there is no problem with our perception, there is a problem with judgement. the judgement reduces what we perceive. our "superficial" perception could guide us to a more natural lifestyle, but we won't allow it, because we have different plans. we are not honest enough with our perception, when we observe all the details of our life, but we don't mind seeing the other zombies for what they are.

 

[Yellow]

I am not a fan of the "everyone is beautiful" concept because it's ridiculous. If it was "everyone has value", I could get on the bandwagon. The emphasis on beauty as if it were an important (or the important) measure of value (especially for women, as this "movement" appears to be aimed) is not ideal.

 

[Grayman]

Everyone has their use, even if it's to clean my shoes. Someone has to do it.

 

[Cognisant]

I am not a fan of the "everyone is beautiful" concept because it's ridiculous. If it was "everyone has value", I could get on the bandwagon. The emphasis on beauty as if it were an important (or the important) measure of value (especially for women, as this "movement" appears to be aimed) is not ideal.

EXACTLY

 

[Grayman]

I am not a fan of the "everyone is beautiful" concept because it's ridiculous. If it was "everyone has value", I could get on the bandwagon. The emphasis on beauty as if it were an important (or the important) measure of value (especially for women, as this "movement" appears to be aimed) is not ideal.

Speak for yourself. It is ideal for me as a male to limit my competition in intellectual career paths by distracting females with alternate and petty value systems.

 

[computerhxr]

I believe that everyone is beautiful.

No, it does not have to do with attraction, physical or otherwise. And it's a scale where someone could be more or less beautiful when compared to another. Even very unattractive or horrible people have some beauty but it's just harder to find. It's like an ugly rock with a crystal formation inside.

[bimgx=350]http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag448/computerhxr/ugly-is-beautiful_zps3e21367b.png[/bimgx]​

I have noticed that external appearance is many times a reflection of their insides. If they don't take care of themselves or have depression then it may take a psychical expression. You can even tell by looking at someones yard if the people living have a messy or stable relationship.

The point is that you have to look past physical looks to see true beauty. You never know what's on the inside unless you dig deep. It's a matter of perspective.

 

[Brontosaurie]

noooo not that crap

enemy opinion

people who say beauty doesn't matter are also people who say everyone is equally beautiful when this demonstrably isn't the case. which means that they consider beauty something worthy of lying about, hence beauty matters there. HYPOCRISY

 

[computerhxr]

noooo not that crap

enemy opinion

people who say beauty doesn't matter are also people who say everyone is equally beautiful when this demonstrably isn't the case. which means that they consider beauty something worthy of lying about, hence beauty matters there. HYPOCRISY

I specifically said that beauty is not equal. I also did not say that beauty does not matter. I think it matters a great deal.

 

[Brontosaurie]

I specifically said that beauty is not equal. I also did not say that beauty does not matter. I think it matters a great deal.

sry it was about the topic at large, not a reply to you specifically

 

[Jennywocky]

people who say beauty doesn't matter are also people who say everyone is equally beautiful when this demonstrably isn't the case. which means that they consider beauty something worthy of lying about, hence beauty matters there. HYPOCRISY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6oYOozfJgI

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Spoiler

How human 'beauty' would appear to a nonhuman of similar or greater intelligence.
Humans like to over-complicate these things and pretend they're either noble or shameful, when it's purely utilitarian from a biological standpoint. Nevertheless, mate selection and child rearing remains the central focus of our short lives.

Don't feel bad. We're programmed this way and we're slowly gaining the ability to reprogram ourselves consciously. Then you can be attracted to whatever you specifically choose to be; be it plasticized celebrities and porn stars with painted abs and cleavage or giant baboon ass.

The only thing I lament, is that with our giant, massively expensive brains, is this really an interesting enough concept/problem to justify the ubiquitous obsession across the whole species? I rather wish we were like ants, with the majority of us incapable of reproducing and instead focused on problems actually worthy and in desperate need of our cognitive super powers. Sure, it's an entertaining enough diversion, and I enjoy as much as anyone, but it's still such a waste. I suspect we would be in much less danger of extinction if we were more like ants.

I suddenly understand anthile's intense admiration of the insect.



edit:
Maybe I could understand beauty in terms of efficiency, like a well-built machine, or smooth running system. Something perfect at what it's designed to do. What is a 'beautiful' human if not a biological machine designed to create strong and numerous offspring.

 

[RaBind]

When people say everyone is beautiful they mean everyone is sort of beautiful. Like if I say everyone is ugly. But I don't think you'd feel as compelled to correct such a statement, as there are probably less people out there who'd wish to take it literally, or at least that's what you think.
Whether everyone is beautiful or ugly depends on how dilute you wish to make the word, thereby expanding the idea to encompass many other ideas, which sort of screws up language.

 

[Grayman]

When people say everyone is beautiful they mean everyone is sort of beautiful. Like if I say everyone is ugly. But I don't think you'd feel as compelled to correct such a statement, as there are probably less people out there who'd wish to take it literally, or at least that's what you think.
Whether everyone is beautiful or ugly depends on how dilute you wish to make the word, thereby expanding the idea to encompass many other ideas, which sort of screws up language.

It is better to say, "You set the standard for ugly.". This way there is no confusion to just how ugly they are.

 

[RaBind]

It is better to say, "You set the standard for ugly.". This way there is no confusion to just how ugly they are.

I like that, thank you.

 

[Thurlor]

Thanks for all the responses.

I wonder what it is about INTPs that allow us to see through all of the crap.


@Nanook

As usual I don't really understand you. I think there is some sort of language divide.


@Yellow

I couldn't have said it better myself.


@Computerhxr

You seemed to have done exactly what I was discussing. You have redefined beauty to mean something other than physical attractiveness.

You also seem to be 'judging the book by its cover'. The most vile person I have ever met was one of the most beautiful women I've ever met.

I just noticed you change your stance half way through. You go from "external appearance is many times a reflection of their insides", to "You never know what's on the inside unless you dig deep".

 

[Pyropyro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAfyFTzZDMM

 

[Thurlor]

Why is only one of the following statements acceptable in society?

- Everyone is beautiful
- Everyone is ugly
- Everyone is tall
- Everyone is blonde
- Everyone is skinny
- etc

 

[Pyropyro]

Why is only one of the following statements acceptable in society?

- Everyone is beautiful
- Everyone is ugly
- Everyone is tall
- Everyone is blonde
- Everyone is skinny
- etc

Well "etc" is quite useful when communicating.

The point is that beauty and ugliness aren't objectively measurable. The closest measuring device that we got is the golden ratio and even that isn't the only factor that is involved when describing beauty. As such, people simply accept "everyone is beautiful" since expressing the term uses the least effort and generates a certain amount of societal acceptance.

 

[computerhxr]

@Computerhxr

You seemed to have done exactly what I was discussing. You have redefined beauty to mean something other than physical attractiveness.

You also seem to be 'judging the book by its cover'. The most vile person I have ever met was one of the most beautiful women I've ever met.

I just noticed you change your stance half way through. You go from "external appearance is many times a reflection of their insides", to "You never know what's on the inside unless you dig deep".

I have not redefined beauty --- you have. I did not change my stance you are using your definition of beauty to make an assertion on my opinion.

Is beauty only physical to you?

 

[TheManBeyond]

For me beauty is something you find interesting, no matter what it is. There are different degrees in the scale obviously. A perturbed mind can be very beautiful even if it has given birth to the most ugly of diseases. owh, cry please. There's something about its belly, the true core, the fetus being fed in the womb that drives this source of inspiration, that warm place. Hard to explain tho.

 

[Grayman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAfyFTzZDMM

I think this video is at direct odds with @Nanook is saying.

 

[Hat-Wearing MAN]

Here's a better version of that crappy Christina Aguilera song.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=isrF__5gdII

 

[Pyropyro]

I think this video is at direct odds with @Nanook is saying.

His words can't bring it down.

 

[TheManBeyond]

this song is about growing up and overcoming fears and uglyness in the sense of insecurities, or trying to fill what we don't have yet before time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJLrDgJNTO8

xd

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Spoiler

giant baboon ass.

dat search history

Maybe I could understand beauty in terms of efficiency, like a well-built machine, or smooth running system. Something perfect at what it's designed to do. What is a 'beautiful' human if not a biological machine designed to create strong and numerous offspring.

And the barren?
Or is the idea that we're all beautiful creations of god?

 

[Jennywocky]

Thanks for all the responses.

I wonder what it is about INTPs that allow us to see through all of the crap.

It's because (IMO) we're typically the ones to always ask "why." We want to know the support for a particular belief or idea.

(And when there is no "why" then we're like, "Well, okay, then; that's a load of crap.")

There are a lot of people who have trouble naturally stepping outside their own frame of reference.

 

[redbaron]

Why is only one of the following statements acceptable in society?

- Everyone is beautiful
- Everyone is ugly
- Everyone is tall
- Everyone is blonde
- Everyone is skinny
- etc

They're all acceptable. Everyone is all of those things if you think about it.

 

[Sockrates]

Beauty is first and foremost an intellectual attraction joined with, secondly, a physical attraction.

 

[The Gopher]

Well there are some dirty rocks that are still dirty rocks inside. That said if it's defined by interested everyone is interesting.

 

[DelusiveNinja]

Let's distinguish beauty from physical attractiveness and value or worth by asking ourselves if we can conceive one characteristic of an individual without the other.

Can a person be considered valuable without being considered beautiful?
And similarly, can a person be considered physically attractive without being considered beautiful?

Well easily, in both scenarios, I can respond "yes" because there are lots of people who are both intrinsically and extrinsically valuable individuals in many respects and aren't at all considered by me to be beautiful. The same goes for people who may be physically attractive, possessing potentially mesmerizing qualities, capable of alluring large audiences, while simultaneously not being considered beautiful, by myself or the masses.

So then, how do we determine what things are beautiful and what beauty is? Beauty is a characteristic of an object, person, or idea suggesting that a thing contains minimal or no unsettling imperfections. And "we" don't determine this. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and so only the beholder alone may judge something to be beautiful. Hence, it is not "we", but rather "I", who will judge something else to be beautiful. And if I look in the mirror to see my reflection (or reflection of my reflection) and think I am not beautiful, then I am not beautiful, in my own view at least.

 

[computerhxr]

Can a person be considered valuable without being considered beautiful?
And similarly, can a person be considered physically attractive without being considered beautiful?

I agree with you. Yes and yes.

I find cars and nature to be things of beauty. Beauty does not have to be human.

Beauty is a pleasing to the senses. It does not have to be attractive. Many times people find confidence to be attractive which has nothing to do with physical looks. Some people are ugly and confident and are capable of attracting so many options that they can choose from models or whomever.

So then, how do we determine what things are beautiful and what beauty is? Beauty is a characteristic of an object, person, or idea suggesting that a thing contains minimal or no unsettling imperfections. And "we" don't determine this. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and so only the beholder alone may judge something to be beautiful. Hence, it is not "we", but rather "I", who will judge something else to be beautiful. And if I look in the mirror to see my reflection (or reflection of my reflection) and think I am not beautiful, then I am not beautiful, in my own view at least.

I disagree with "contains minimal or no unsettling imperfections" because something can be beautiful for one single aspect. This goes along with the eye of the beholder because something that is beauty to one may not be to another.

Perfection is not beauty or antiquities would not fall into this category. Having just the right amount of character (imperfection) is a thing of beauty to some.

If beauty and attraction were subjective, then it would not change over time and everyone would be after the same people or things. At the same time social pressures re-program peoples perceptions of beauty.

I think that beauty being in the eye of the beholder is an evolutionary survival skill. If every man was after only the most beautiful women (or vise-versa), then reproduction would be limited. The fact that people can change their perception over time and adapt to different social situations is strong evidence of this.

When people assume the social context of physical idealism being beauty they are negating their self-worth. When you see other things as beauty then your self-worth can be nurtured and you can blossom into someone who is found to be more attractive and beautiful to more people.

 

[QuickTwist]

Even beauty is pointless.

 

[Grayman]

Even beauty is pointless.

It has its uses.

 

[QuickTwist]

It has its uses.

I'm glad my strategy worked... No beauty lasts forever. Even the view of beauty is fleeting.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

If "beautiful" here is not restricted to physical attributes, then what would it mean to agree or disagree with the statement?

as others already said, since there is no universally acceptable definition of beauty and it's constitutes(does the word beauty encompass a person's value or not? And if it does, then how can beauty be quantified if a person is physically beautiful but has repulsive demeanour or vise versa. Which would outweigh which? The value of a person or the physical attributes? And why?)...the statement "everyone is beautiful" is obviously not universally true

i think most people follow umberto eco's definition of beauty and ugliness, which defines beauty as something that stimulates pleasant, kind of disinterested contemplation and ugliness as something which arouses strong feelings of disgust and repulsion...its too vague imo

 

[nanook]

beauty is physical, but as i have defined in other threads before, aesthetics is the (recognition of) graceful interplay of static and dynamic aspects of reality.

so beauty comes in part from movement, from the fact, that something is alive or harmonizes with life. unless it's a zombie.

look at an alien race then. not too alien, just alien enough so you don't apply your personal preferences to them. as long as they are sort of healthy and move in roughly natural ways, they are all equally beautiful.

[bimgx=250]http://i.imgur.com/TPLtZil.jpg[/bimgx]

[bimgx=250]http://i.imgur.com/y1HI3WX.jpg[/bimgx]

perversions, fetishes or aversions, all 'programmed' preferences are applied on top of original perception of beauty, they can never fully replace it. original perception is based on how a lifeform looks naturally.

 

[Bock]

Thanks for all the responses.

I wonder what it is about INTPs that allow us to see through all of the crap.

It's feelgood-nonsense, it's supposed to manipulate emotions, the rational part is irrelevant. My guess is few to none truly believe it.