I refuse to do what I am told.

[Thurlor]

I have always had this tendency and recently I began to wonder if other INTPs also deal with a similar thing.

If you tell me to do something (even if it is for my benefit) I won't.

If you tell me not to do something I will.

I used to think I was just being contrary, but it goes deeper than that.

It has spilled into my views of politics and I can no longer support anything other than voluntarism.

 

[Hadoblado]

Support voluntarism.

 

[BurnedOut]

In my case, I usually weigh the pros and cons and do what I am told if it comes with social utility and actual utility. I like keeping a low profile most of the times and am wearing a mask 99.99% of the times when I am socializing. But yeah, I do fuck people over whenever I feel like because I don't feel obligated to obey anybody.

I just think obedience is akin to a slavish mindset. One should never obey anybody if it does not come with any kind of utility. You should ALWAYS do what you want when you can get away with it or if the tradeoff of voluntarism is not bad. You don't owe anyone anything if you don't want to be

 

[Cognisant]

In epistemology, epistemological voluntarism is the view that belief is a matter of the will rather than one of simply registering one's cognitive attitude or degree of psychological certainty with respect to a stated proposition.

But registering one's cognitive attitude or degree of psychological certainty, with respect to a stated position, is itself an act of will, and that act of will is nothing but the act of: registering one's cognitive attitude or degree of psychological certainty, with respect to a stated position.

The will is not a thing in of itself, there's no will unto will, you can't willingly exercise your will because you're not an entity apart from yourself.

More broadly speaking I do what I want, whether I'm told to do it or not the choice was mine to comply or not, even when I'm doing something boring or unpleasant and I'd rather be doing something else the very fact that I'm doing what I am means that I've chosen to do it.

The very concept of free will is defunct, there is no free will, there is no not-free will, indeed there is no will at all (as a thing unto itself) there is only: I Do. What I Want.

Or more specifically: I Do.
If I didn't want to I wouldn't be doing it so the want goes without saying.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

The bandwidth people have determined what they end up doing. One way or another.

I did make my own model for determining that. A friend of mine simplified it by condensing it into FAFO. I don't think that includes the approaches and the values that under the why people do said things to . . Find out.

I try to avoid everything possible in favor of what I can attain for myself. People shift their approach towards you, end up guiding what you do anyways.

 

[Niclmaki]

I’ve always felt that it was a some sort of violation of an individuals rights to tell them what to do. I don’t tell anyone what to do, not even kids. I will ask, and suggest things, but no orders. (That was my career for a while; looking after kids)

For me, I almost always did what I was told until I was about 18, then I realized that I had never really exercised my own self-determination. Was quite a revelation.

I don’t have the inverse reaction though. If you tell me NOT to do something, I won’t feel compelled.

Have a related meme.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I used to have this to a dangerous degree. Once my relative told me I should do something reasonable and something I decided I was going to do anyway.

Them telling me to do that caused me to get annoyed and postpone on doing that important thing that I wanted to do just to show that I don't "obey" them. And I almost missed a deadline because of that.

Nowadays I'm much more aware of this reaction and I can agree with other's suggestions if I view them as important or beneficial.

 

[Drvladivostok]

I have always had this tendency and recently I began to wonder if other INTPs also deal with a similar thing.

If you tell me to do something (even if it is for my benefit) I won't.

If you tell me not to do something I will.

I used to think I was just being contrary, but it goes deeper than that.

It has spilled into my views of politics and I can no longer support anything other than voluntarism.

Well if your objective is to maximize your autonomy, which is the purpose of voluntarism, then this strategy is simply counterproductive, I can hack this system by just using reverse psychology.

To a degree my view of autonomy is linked to how it serve my wellbeing; I listen to my own believe and logical reasoning on things which I'm confident on my own ability to assess, on the other hand I get inputs from other people on things I don't know, though the choice is ultimitely mine.

I think most people confuse between the desire for personal autonomy and its function to realize positive benefits to the desiree. A 4 years old have great desire for autonomy but ultimately can't be held responsible for its use, therefore it ought to be limited. You're certainly more developed than some infant but I think this principle applies to most people.

 

[dr froyd]

everyone believes they are a unique, independently-thinking being.

unfortunately almost everyone is good at only 2 things: following orders and following other people.

 

[Daddy]

You wouldn't last long in an authoritarian system. It's good to be flexible.

 

[Black Rose]

Depending on my mood.
And if the person is not a jerk.
I obey 95% of the time.

I aways ask nicely if I need something.

 

[sushi]

because obedience following orders and doing favors for someone entails some kind of reward in this world, or gain such as promotion at work.

as per blind obedience. everything to humans is a form of a deal or exchange. If its a sour deal, like doing a favor for someone and get nothing in return, or pressure to conform and obey, its probably not worth it. I usually play along to figure out their motives, but if it ends up to be a lose of me in long run and exploitation, i just stop giving a damn.

 

[Puffy]

I think being able to do what you’re told is healthy in a lot of circumstances.

For me if I agree with the suggestion I’ll go ahead and do it. If I don’t I’ll gently challenge it and suggest alternatives and see what can be negotiated. Sometimes you need to go ahead and do it if they’re firm about it or spot holes in your ideas. If I’m really struggling with the idea of doing what they’ve said I’ll consult other people involved and see what they think. Only time I wouldn’t do it would be if there was a moral or ethical reason to challenge.

I think this is just a basic necessary skill when working with other people, especially if working with someone more senior than you. There are plenty of occasions a senior person has known better than me on account of their experience and it’s been an exercise in humility to simply trust their judgement and go with it.

I would say that I’ve struggled with authority and this area a lot but that overall it’s an area I’ve grown a lot from.

 

[birdsnestfern]

I obey if its got integrity and aligns with my inner compass and I feel like I'm on a team of people doing the same.
If its a boss, I usually do in a whirlwind and get it to them fast. (Unless there is an unreasonable or unfair request).
For example, I do not just trust ANYONE to tell me to do something if I disagree with something about it, even if they are at the highest level. I will try to change something if it is wrong.

If its in a restaurant, yes, the customer is always right. (Unless someone is being unusually irate and needs to be handled otherwise).
Customers almost always get fast services from me and the feeling that I do care to make it a mutual relationship.

Where I stick my chin out to refuse is when they make you adopt something stupid like Skype to spy on you or it imposes restrictions that are not helpful or don't make sense.

I'm not a trained seal that follows every order, I want to do my part to create a team, but if the players are not acting like a team, they prevent you from your full abilities to help. You've got to be allowed personal authority to really be effective - then you can do your projects the way you do them best.

Heirarchy and how its distributed determines how much I want to be on a team. I like a flatter heirarchy where everyone has powers to speak and do and be effective in a true team like environment with equity that gives you reason to want to obey, but it needs to be within reason. Don't blindly follow without clear integrity of what you are doing.

 

[sushi]

following orders from stupid people is really hard. its one of the hardest things you have to deal with at work.

if someone likes blind obedience, they should join the army or something.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I have always had this tendency and recently I began to wonder if other INTPs also deal with a similar thing.

Yes, all my life I boycotted school, because my parents had to push me to get good grades. I hated it so I never studied.

If you tell me to do something (even if it is for my benefit) I won't.

Not always, but I have to say I have done this, I thought it was just a phase in life. I never grew out of it. Hate myself when I go along with things, and I hate myself when I don't.

If you tell me not to do something I will.

I have a motto "JUST DO NOTHING"

I used to think I was just being contrary, but it goes deeper than that.

Psychiatry has now invented a new condition called PDA. Check it out. I think its just natural tendency for some of us. WE cannot all be conformist. It would be the end of civilization if we all mindlessly conform.

It has spilled into my views of politics and I can no longer support anything other than voluntarism.

Some of us have to be conformist. Some of should not.
Its the nature of the game. We as humans are stronger in variety.
Much like in military everyone cannot be infantry. You also need snipers, artillery, airforce and other varieties to make the sum total stronger.
Humans are not ants. And even ants have specialized units, due to natural selection, because that is how the hive works.
Humanity is not monolithic.