I Doubt It

[BigApplePi]

What is "doubt"? I mean what the heck is it? Is it an emotion or is it logical? Where does it comes from and what doubts do YOU have? If the opposite is certainty, when do you have that? When you are fairly sure, does this sometimes lead you into trouble? Do you think you should be more careful?

 

[Cognisant]

*flips a coin*

You know the probable outcome is 50/50, but how do you know this?

The first result will always be one way or another, there's no 50/50 result, and it's this initial result that creates a bias, a belief that one way is more likely than another, even after 100 coin flips with an outcome of 50/50 there's still that (irrational?) belief that because it fell one way the first time it's more likely to fall that way the next time, after all why else did it fall that way?

So you see there's a mechanism to human thought based upon observation and recognition of patterns within the observed data (real or not) and it's only on a more abstract level that we can figure out (rationally) that the probable result for a coin flip is 50/50, only 50/50, and will always be 50/50 unless some other factor is involved.

Unfortunately life is a lot more complicated than a coin flip, making it much harder to accurately calculate the probability of this or that happening, so we experience doubt which is basically our pattern-forming recognition system having difficulty figuring out what the right course of action is based upon observed patterns. The problem being that there simply isn't enough data, not enough to be sure anyway, and with insufficient data different parts of our brain which have received different data come to different conclusions and "argue", and it is this cognitive dissonance that we experience as doubt.

In our behaviour doubt manifests itself as inaction, simply because it's easier to fuck something up by doing the wrong thing than doing nothing (most of the time anyway) so responsibility falls upon the conscious/rational mind to make the call, like a king in his throne room surrounded by his advisors, it falls upon you to make the decision (in spite of there being insufficient data) utilizing whatever amount of wisdom you posses.

This “decision making” is essentially fooling yourself into believing you know what to do, there’s no escaping the truth of it, life makes a fool of us all, but are you a wise fool or just a fool?
You’ll see by the results of your actions.

 

[Antediluvian]

I think doubt can stem from different sources. It can be intellectual (doubting the validity of proposed concepts to explain the world), it can from reflection of one's self, it can pour from irrational emotional reactions to stimuli...anything, really. As for what doubt is, the simple answer would be "uncertainty, to varying degrees." Just my perspective, really.

 

[Akuma]

I think "doubt" would be the consideration of possibilities.

.. I don't have much else to say..

 

[BigApplePi]

*flips a coin*

You know the probable outcome is 50/50, but how do you know this?

The first result will always be one way or another, there's no 50/50 result, and it's this initial result that creates a bias, a belief that one way is more likely than another, even after 100 coin flips with an outcome of 50/50 there's still that (irrational?) belief that because it fell one way the first time it's more likely to fall that way the next time, after all why else did it fall that way?

I will dispute this.
1. First toss - that could be the way it is.
2. Second toss opposite - how could I have been so wrong?
3. First ten tosses the same - there's got to be a pattern here.
4. First ten tosses mixed, random - there is no pattern. I will doubt the next outcome.
5. H T H T H T H T. Seems to be a definite pattern. But why? Try as I might I can think of no theory. I can't face facts. My mind is blown.

Unfortunately life is a lot more complicated than a coin flip, making it much harder to accurately calculate the probability of this or that happening, so we experience doubt which is basically our pattern-forming recognition system having difficulty figuring out what the right course of action is based upon observed patterns. The problem being that there simply isn't enough data, not enough to be sure anyway, and with insufficient data different parts of our brain which have received different data come to different conclusions and "argue", and it is this cognitive dissonance that we experience as doubt.

What if life IS a biased coin flip? The coin is biased. We form an opinion. We can never predict a specific flip in spite of our learning what the bias is, so we doubt.

This “decision making” is essentially fooling yourself into believing you know what to do, there’s no escaping the truth of it, life makes a fool of us all, but are you a wise fool or just a fool?
You’ll see by the results of your actions.

We can judge the coin bias accurately or inaccurately.

 

[lucky12]

I doubt we can come up with an answer

 

[BigApplePi]

I wanted to know if doubt was rational or an emotion. Could it be something else? Somehow we can't seem to get a handle on this. Unbelievable. If it were love, the answer would be an emotion. If we wanted to know if 3 is greater than 2, that would be rational.

 

[Dapper Dan]

My best guess is that doubt comes from intuition. When you say that you doubt something will work, what you really mean is, "I can't say for certain, but this idea seems to conflict with my understanding of the systems that govern this topic."

Of if you do think something will work, but you still have some lingering doubts, you could say, "I agree with this idea, but I've thought of some possibilities that we haven't accounted for."

 

[Cognisant]

I will dispute this.

That after 100 flips the first result might still influence the choice of the flipper?

Way to go dumbass, you missed the point entirely

 

[snafupants]

I guess doubt could be logical and/or emotional depending on what one is doubting. For instance, if one were doubting a relationship's success it seems like that would be a domain where logic would play less of a role than judging whether climate change is actual. Most people employ a crude species of doubt, however, when they really just don't feel like exerting the ol' noggin. You can go right ahead and doubt everything I have just said though.

 

[BigApplePi]

My best guess is that doubt comes from intuition.

My intuition says that seems to be true. It lays open questions about intuition though. If intuition is something taken in whole, does intuition always imply doubt? If I am fairly certain something is going to happen, is that because of a historical rating of probability and not intuition? Is this the same as saying, I've got so much sensory data collected, my reason tells me the truth and not intuition? No. A person who has failed to collect enough data can be (or say they be) intuitively sure. I don't think this is an INTP trait. It's a trait of those who lead with intuition.

 

[BigApplePi]

That after 100 flips the first result might still influence the choice of the flipper?

I was writing or thinking too fast and got sloppy. (An INTP who goes too fast is going to get in trouble.) When I said, "I dispute this", I meant those who would believe the first toss would influence what follows. You are correct some would allow that to influence them. I was disputing such a person. I take it the saying, "First impressions are lasting impressions" occurs because the 1st impression fills the mind, while the 2nd one is not "clean." It has to not only to register itself, but has to overcome what was there before. I was musing that the pattern H T H T H T, if it occurred, would have to blow to smithereens any such initial impression for such a person.

Way to go dumbass, you missed the point entirely

I think it's worse than that. What else did I miss? I will have to go back and reread what you said as there is more there than I have yet to pick up on.
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Edit: Cog. How about this? Doubt is a subjective state within a living being dealing with the unknown. Probability and statistics are objectivications of the unknown and are not subject to human judgment except possibly reason.

 

[BigApplePi]

I guess doubt could be logical and/or emotional depending on what one is doubting.

What a range!

For instance, if one were doubting a relationship's success it seems like that would be a domain where logic

It's hard to measure probabilities where human behavior is concerned.

would play less of a role than judging whether climate change is actual.

My first reaction was this must be true, yet taking the measure of the amount of climate change, though approachable with science including geological history and astronomical observations is almost as difficult because of the unknown variables.

Most people employ a crude species of doubt, however, when they really just don't feel like exerting the ol' noggin. You can go right ahead and doubt everything I have just said though.

What I'm now thinking is how to relate doubt to the four cognitive functions: thinking, feeling, intuition and sensation.
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I know this could (an expression of uncertainty) be off limits snafu, but can I mess with your logo?

 

[Abraxas]

Doubt derives from logic.

Logic derives from memories.

You have no memories. -> You have no doubt.

You have no doubt. -> You still might have memories, though.

 

[HDINTP]

It depends on each individuals intuition, also on that what we doubt about so i would say it is 50/50 and surely you think about possibilities which leads you there but i still think that i would rather use it as logical thing nevertheless you can sometimes get to be effected by emotions during the process...

 

[Dapper Dan]

I don't think doubt is inherently logical or emotional, though. It can arise in both kinds of situations, and that makes me think it's linked to N. Maybe S, too.

 

[Chaucerinthewoods]

Doubt is like, "should I feed this alligator this savory sausage?" Or "Is this girl hot enough to poke?" (conversely "This girl's too ugly to poke"). Doubt is the precipice of a decision, or how you feel and respond when you don't have any form of reassurance or certainty, whatever it may be. I ask you then what is certainty? I doubt you know.

Doubt is the temptation to accept an assertion of faith.

 

[BigApplePi]

In terms of the four cognitive functions, maybe we could break down doubt:

Pure thought is logic - "the odds of a coin flips is 50 percent = the exact doubt it will go one way is 50 percent.

Feeling - I can cross the street in sheer terror I will be run down by an unseeing bus = I doubt I will make it = fear.

Intuition and sensation - ???

Is doubt a judgment of thinking and or feeling not present with intuition and sensation? Both of those may carry the feeling of certainty.

 

[snafupants]

In terms of the four cognitive functions, maybe we could break down doubt:

Pure thought is logic - "the odds of a coin flips is 50 percent = the exact doubt it will go one way is 50 percent.

Feeling - I can cross the street in sheer terror I will be run down by an unseeing bus = I doubt I will make it = fear.

Intuition and sensation - ???

Is doubt a judgment of thinking and or feeling not present with intuition and sensation? Both of those may carry the feeling of certainty.

There's something intriguing about that delineation, but there's also something slippery about it. Couldn't we, alternatively, say that there is fifty percent hope/faith that the coin will come out, say, tails in the flip experiment? It seems like you grasp onto feeling and thinking as doubt functions because those more directly deal with decisions and planning and a certain, more direct ilk of interaction with day-to-day reality that most of us experience; intuition and sensation deal more with fuzzy abstractions and phenomenology, respectively, in my opinion. Thus, intuition and sensation are less prone to the modality in which a more tethered feeling like doubt could creep in; wouldn't one, farther, be more apt to doubt a reasoned thought than a inchoate abstraction or intuition? There seems to be more to doubt, substantively, with a clear thought than a vague intuition, you know?

 

[BigApplePi]

When it comes to cognitive functions, I sure would like someone like Adymus to weigh in on this. (That may be laziness on my part.)

There's something intriguing about that delineation, but there's also something slippery about it. Couldn't we, alternatively, say that there is fifty percent hope/faith that the coin will come out, say, tails in the flip experiment?

I like to think of an INTP or better yet, a good scientist who has as his/her sole purpose to remove as much of the emotional aspect of probability as possible from one's attitude. A scientist can certainly have hope, but if he's a player of Twenty-One or poker or roulette, he had best be as cool as possible. His "doubt" must be as perfect as calculated theory says is possible. Personally when I think (or think I'm thinking) I absolutely hate to think I'm allowing emotion to interfere with what I'm trying to get right. Desire to think is okay, but not pre-judgmental damn interfering emotion. As soon as emotion enters in, I come out the fool, lol.

It seems like you grasp onto feeling and thinking as doubt functions because those more directly deal with decisions and planning and a certain, more direct ilk of interaction with day-to-day reality that most of us experience; intuition and sensation deal more with fuzzy abstractions and phenomenology, respectively, in my opinion. Thus, intuition and sensation are less prone to the modality in which a more tethered feeling like doubt could creep in; wouldn't one, farther, be more apt to doubt a reasoned thought than a inchoate abstraction or intuition? There seems to be more to doubt, substantively, with a clear thought than a vague intuition, you know?

There is a cognitive function post somewhere which address something about this but I don't recall where it is.

I would agree one can doubt a reasoned thought but is that because the reasoning could be in error or because we are uncertain about the outcome in question? An experienced poker player "knows" the odds of card hands. What he is constantly learning is the psychology of his opponents. That's a different doubt, the doubt of experience of the opponent. Saying it now, it would seem doubt, the feeling, is more ascribed to emotion while with mathematical odds one doesn't use the word "doubt" in ordinary English language usage.

Sensation: If I handle an object, where is the doubt? I'm so busy sensing it all my attention is on 100 percent of the sensation, doubt can't enter in.

Intuition: Intuition looks at the whole. There is no separating out yes or no, high or low, up or down. As soon as one doubts, intuition is lost.

 

[Sanctum]

I think doubt primarily stems from intuition mixed with logic based on past experiences.