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Human motivation can be reduced down to happiness?

BurnoutPriest

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This is an interesting discussion that was brought up today. The basic story surrounding it was the claim that "All humans basically strive for happiness." I brought up things such as fascination with violence, disturbing events, general envy and pity as counterpoints but the idea still persisted. I have no alternative to propose for human motivation; but suffice to say I feel it is an oversimplification.

So, what do you believe motivates humans in general? Are there any counterpoints to the happiness hypothesis you would put forward?
 

Felan

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I would say survival is more basic than happiness. Beyond survival human activity tends to be simply doing something. Too many people stay in unhappy marriages and miserable jobs and in unpleasant living situations for happiness to be a primary motivation for anything really. Happiness is aspiration tempered with with a good measure of acceptance, and almost everyone manages to miss the mark.
 

Toad

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YES!!! People are such bullshitters. They say "Oh, my motivation is my family and this and that" but that's a fucking load of shit. The only reason they want to do this and that for others is to make themselves look good. Why look good? Because it makes them HAPPY!

Fucking selfish hypocrites.
 

Artifice Orisit

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On a very basic level the human mind is designed for survival, Pleasure & Pain.
The drive to feel pleasure and avoid pain tricks the mind into protecting the body.

Once the survival criteria are met a human will seek to thrive, Happiness & Sadness.
The drive to feel happy and avoid sadness tricks the mind into seeking the body’s secondary needs.

If the human mind can free itself from the bodies influence, either by attain happiness and pleasure, or recognising them as the animalist drives they are. Then it is possible for the mind to seek what it wants, things such as purpose, meaning, relevance, and worth.
 

preilemus

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im going to side with Nietzshe and say that power is the main reason for motivation
 

Kuu

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Fucking selfish hypocrites.

Yes, yes....


Me, I shall pass on the hypocrite part. I have openly and wholeheartedly accepted my own selfishness.
 

Ermine

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YES!!! People are such bullshitters. They say "Oh, my motivation is my family and this and that" but that's a fucking load of shit. The only reason they want to do this and that for others is to make themselves look good. Why look good? Because it makes them HAPPY!

Fucking selfish hypocrites.

People need to be selfish, or they'll burn out in the attempt to help others. What motivation is there for living if you aren't looking out for #1?

I'm not saying that helping others is bad, but your capacity to help others or do anything else is determined by how much you help yourself.
 

Beat Mango

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YES!!! People are such bullshitters. They say "Oh, my motivation is my family and this and that" but that's a fucking load of shit. The only reason they want to do this and that for others is to make themselves look good. Why look good? Because it makes them HAPPY!

Fucking selfish hypocrites.

It's not a load of shit at all, I think you're projecting your own desires onto them. If we assume all people are ultimately self-serving, then there are still countless ways we can do that. If I serve myself by serving others, I am still selfless, as distinct from someone who serves themself by trampling over others.

In other words, we can define somebody's values as such: what actions make them happy? If it's altruistic actions that make them happy, then they are an altruistic person, not a "fucking selfish hypocrite".
 

Fleur

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Yeah, but from where does the selflessness actually come from?
It's a mean of survival. In an individual level, one human helps others because of a hope that they will return the favour if needed, it's like some kind of insurance for dealing with unexpected events of future, although human might not have the perspicuous idea in their mind as they commit the act of so called "selflessness".
In wider terms, this "selflessness" increases specie's survival potentional. It could be said that "selflessness" is a form of pack's interior cooperation which has taken a slightly different form of expression.

Returning to the original question of this thread: I tend to think that the motivation cannot be narrowed down to only one aspect. Yes, the basic of the basics is survival, but, with the development of mind, humans might have raised the notch.
 

Felan

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As to whether power is the primary motivation of people, I have yet to witness even a small fraction of people try to exert themselves toward power. Most people are too timid and unsure of themselves to do that.

Beyond survival, it seems to me that human motivations become fairly erratic. Some are genuinely selfless, and some are selfishly generous. Though I have yet to meet someone who is truly without some degree of selfishness.

Humans are to my experience, beautifully flawed. The only constant is that humans need some way to pass the time: a hobby, games, television, reading, starting wars, exercising, painting, starting up businesses, meditating, and so on. The only common thread I see in every person is the need to do something.

Since survival doesn't fill the void of activity, other things must. The need to do something is so powerful that it will override the need to be happy or to have power. There is never a moment when I'm doing "nothing", though to some observers it might appear so. Even if you were to meditate and empty yourself of everything, you are still doing something.

After survival and then doing something, the most common thread I've seen is doing something for the sake of change. Often this is done to the detriment of a person's happiness. For example, many happy marriages can end not because they are unhappy with each other from the exhausting sameness. Look at the amount of vocabulary to describe this sense: burn out, needing excitement, boring, repetitious, same-o same-o (a literary construct that exists in French and Chinese to my knowledge, probably others), same shit different day, doing nothing, and so on.

In the end this vast array of activities and spontaneous changes in those activities leads humanity stumbling along in something we call progress.
 

dwags222

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Personally, I think human motivation can be simply boiled down to two things. Desire and fear. I think most people don't desire happiness as much as you would expect, and many people who desire happiness never attain it because of fear.
 

fullerene

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google "enneagram" sometime when you're bored. It's another type of personality testing, similar to mbti, but with 9 types and various levels of "health" for each one. The thing that pushes someone towards a healthier or unhealthier version of their type, the theory goes, is whether they're motivated by desire or fear, edging towards the positive or away from the negative. I'm not sure what I think about the types themselves (I scatter across them much different than I do with mbti, predominantly 5w4 and 9w1, but most INTPs fall as 5w4 I think), but the varying levels of health, and the fear/desire motivation that determines how healthy a person of that type is seem to be spot on.
 

Tyria

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Myers-Briggs is something like 70% accurate though... one of the most accurate that exists I think but it sucks to be in the other 30%.

Oh well. Someone better make something better I guess.
 
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I think it can be boiled down, more accurately, increase of pleasure and avoidance of pain. The issue is what each individual puts into each category. i.e. serial killers taking pleasure in murder, an artist taking pleasure in expression, an alcoholic taking pleasure from drinking, me experiencing pain while watching shitty movies.

Point being, pleasure is still the goal and pain is what we try to avoid.

So then the problem becomes how do we spin this shit in such a way as to make people act in the interest of making the world a better place and such.
 

Gamgee

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There is a theory that states all Human motivation stems from a fear of death. Figuratively speaking or even litteraly. If you are interested I would look up Terror Managment Theory.

I am under the belief that well... Humans don't really have any motivation other than the simple fact that they do things. Look at it this way there are at the most basic concept Humans can understand only two options. You can either do something or not do something. There exists a third temporary state in between doing and not doing, but other than that it is one of those two. So we either do thing or we don't do things and die. Since we all know next to nothing about what happens after we die and that everything is guaranteed to do nothing at some point it becomes clear we must do everything before we do nothing.

So the simple motivation of everything is to simply do, and this could translate into survival. Then again it could translate into other things as well.
 

dwags222

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i think human choice is rarely as simple as do or don't do. choice is usually more like do this, or that, or that, or that, or that . . .

whichever "that" we choose will have been chosen as a result of a complex interrelationship between our many desires and our many fears.
 
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