Human hive mind.

[TheScornedReflex]

I have been thinking about this for sometime now. Say humans had developed as a hive species. Controlled by a overmind. Where do you think the species would be as a whole? Would we be capable of technological feats? Or would we be little more than animalistic drones acting no different than bugs?


Didn't know where to put this thread. Figured mods would move it if in the wrong place.

 

[Milo]

I'd say if it were an actual intelligent mind controlling us, and not just instincts, then we would probably be out harvesting the energy of other planets right now. Just a guess (partially based on the book "Ender's Game."

 

[SpaceYeti]

We'd probably have sex more.

 

[BigApplePi]

Didn't know where to put this thread. Figured mods would move it if in the wrong place.

Put it under sociology ... or pending mods, move the mods to move it to a modest place.

 

[RadicalDreamer31]

If human hive mind develop (further) there will be more than one, I think. Humanity is already a wide enough spectrum that concensus is already out of reach. Peoples who organise themselves will diverge further from other peoples.

Also if technological advancement is allow to continue at its current trend. The brain, DNA, and everything else will be redesigned. Again these "overminds" will most likely take a very different approach to their evolution then that of their counterparts.

Will these radically different transhumans hives place pressure on each other to develop further or be exterminated?

 

[TheScornedReflex]

We'd probably have sex more.

Sex is good.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

If human hive mind develop (further) there will be more than one, I think. Humanity is already a wide enough spectrum that concensus is already out of reach. Peoples who organise themselves will diverge further from other peoples.

Also if technological advancement is allow to continue at its current trend. The brain, DNA, and everything else will be redesigned. Again these "overminds" will most likely take a very different approach to their evolution then that of their counterparts.

Will these radically different transhumans hives place pressure on each other to develop further or be exterminated?

I reckon they would war. If only for the resources. But i am meaning hive as in ant mentality or close enough. Complete with Queen, workers and warriors.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Put it under sociology ... or pending mods, move the mods to move it to a modest place.

I don't know how to move it. I'll let the, heh, Overminds move it.

 

[joal0503]

I have been thinking about this for sometime now. Say humans had developed as a hive species. Controlled by a overmind. Where do you think the species would be as a whole? Would we be capable of technological feats? Or would we be little more than animalistic drones acting no different than bugs?


Didn't know where to put this thread. Figured mods would move it if in the wrong place.

that depends on how faithful, or how well connected the species is with their overmind.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

that depends on how faithful, or how well connected the species is with their overmind.

A fairly strong instinctual connection. Or it could be a psychic connection sent to a type of Undermind that oversees the drones.

Feel free to come up with scenarios and the such to help describe your views.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Yes. Also, in what manner is our connection... connected? I mean, is it simply social stimulation responses, or are we talking full-on cumulative intelligence shared via some sort of psychic connection betwixt our minds? If the latter, does distance matter, or does thought travel faster than light without being subject to the square cube problem distance brings, somehow? What manner of hive mind are we talking?

 

[RadicalDreamer31]

Once replicators are on the market, I'm copying myself a Billziontrillion times and making my own hive! Ima eat you

 

[SpaceYeti]

On a related note, a fictional creation of mine has what I called "Distributed Intelligence", where each individual robot (they were robots) functioned as it's own mind if it needed to, but it's intelligence was added to a sort of wi-fi network cloud mind when in proximity to other robots of it's kind. They all shared the same single mind when connected thusly, each robot becoming like an individual limb of the body. This resulted in the robots operating in swarms, as they were smarter and generally more capable that way. Once the creators realized the larger the swarm got, the harder it was to control, they tried to impliment swarm size limitations... which resulted in the swarms seeing them as a threat, and we have a relatively typical "man vs machine" war. However, do to the swarms vast intelligence and shared knowledge among every robot , the war was won in a matter of hours, by the swarm.

This was also merely background to the actual plot.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Yes. Also, in what manner is our connection... connected? I mean, is it simply social stimulation responses, or are we talking full-on cumulative intelligence shared via some sort of psychic connection betwixt our minds? If the latter, does distance matter, or does thought travel faster than light without being subject to the square cube problem distance brings, somehow? What manner of hive mind are we talking?

Whatever you prefer. Personally I like the psychic option. Overmind being the strongest. Having capability to communicate/control up to several kilometres. The Underminds would be mobile psychic hubs, if you will, the commanders enacting the Overminds will.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Once replicators are on the market, I'm copying myself a Billziontrillion times and making my own hive! Ima eat you

Nah ah! My hive will bet yours up!!

 

[SpaceYeti]

Whatever you prefer. Personally I like the psychic option. Overmind being the strongest. Having capability to communicate/control up to several kilometres. The Underminds would be mobile psychic hubs, if you will, the commanders enacting the Overminds will.

I have no preference. I can imagine anything I want, and it'd be fun, but if we're not discussing the same thing, then what's the point in talking to each-other at all?

 

[RadicalDreamer31]

We will be stuck in a stalemate, then will we collaborate and take over the galaxy.









.. and then ima eat you.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

I have no preference. I can imagine anything I want, and it'd be fun, but if we're not discussing the same thing, then what's the point in talking to each-other at all?

I thought people would like to come up with their own theorys. Then let the dabating begin!

But anyway. The communication would happen instantaneous. The signal would weaken with distance causing the drones to resort to their base instincts and stop doing their masters will.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

We will be stuck in a stalemate, then will we collaborate and take over the galaxy.









.. and then ima eat you.

Now I know your plan and will eat you first!! Then I will assimilate your hive into my own.

Or I could go with: That's what she said!

 

[SpaceYeti]

I thought people would like to come up with their own theorys. Then let the dabating begin!

But anyway. The communication would happen instantaneous. The signal would weaken with distance causing the drones to resort to their base instincts and stop doing their masters will.

If it's instantaneous, then why is there a proximity requirement? That is, if it moves faster than the speed of light, so fast that it doesn't even count as a speed, because it's instant, then why would how far that infinitely fast thought had to go? Couldn't it be at every point in space at the same time?

 

[TheScornedReflex]

If it's instantaneous, then why is there a proximity requirement? That is, if it moves faster than the speed of light, so fast that it doesn't even count as a speed, because it's instant, then why would how far that infinitely fast thought had to go? Couldn't it be at every point in space at the same time?

Nope, its like a candle. The further away from the candle the weaker the light.

 

[Milo]

My post just appeared now?

Ender's Game. Read it! Good book if you enjoy a little fiction. It's about the human race fighting an advanced hive mind race. Pretty short too.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

My post just appeared now?

Ender's Game. Read it! Good book if you enjoy a little fiction. It's about the human race fighting an advanced hive mind race. Pretty short too.

It looks like it could be a good read. And a series to boot.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Nope, its like a candle. The further away from the candle the weaker the light.

That's only because light carries energy in a finite amount of time, with finite energy, in a circular proximity from it's source, thereby reducing it's brightness (distance between photons (or photon clusters)) by a cubed number per squared distance. If light traveled instantly (infinitely fast), it would be at every point in space at the same time, and the observer would go blind from the brightness, and the light would have infinite energy. Or it would not have infinite energy and the observer would not go blind because he could not interact with it, I suppose.

Anyway, how can this thing arrive at it's destination instantly, yet also be subject to the cubed square law? If it's infinitely fast, how does it lose intensity with distance?

 

[TheScornedReflex]

That's only because light carries energy in a finite amount of time, with finite energy, in a circular proximity from it's source, thereby reducing it's brightness (distance between photons (or photon clusters)) by a cubed number per squared distance. If light traveled instantly (infinitely fast), it would be at every point in space at the same time, and the observer would go blind from the brightness, and the light would have infinite energy. Or it would not have infinite energy and the observer would not go blind because he could not interact with it, I suppose.

Anyway, how can this thing arrive at it's destination instantly, yet also be subject to the cubed square law? If it's infinitely fast, how does it lose intensity with distance?

Err... Because...it.. Does? Maybe that Physic child shouldn't have been banned. We could of asked him

 

[snafupants]

School indoctrinates young kids on how to mis/perceive reality and the idiot box informs bigger kids what to think. I hated school.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

School indoctrinates young kids on how to mis/perceive reality and the idiot box informs bigger kids what to think. I hated school.

Are you a psychic? We need one to answer Yetis question. School sucked though. That's why I rarely went. So I'm only slightly indoctrinated... Kill all non believers..*shakes head* sorry bout that. But the Overmind has spoken.

 

[SpaceYeti]

School indoctrinates young kids on how to mis/perceive reality and the idiot box informs bigger kids what to think. I hated school.

... What does that have to do with anything?

 

[SpaceYeti]

My hypothesis; I would hypothesize that the thing which is the mind is actually a sort of cloud intelligence thing, each person within becoming a member of the mind. Thus, when the high-mind wants a sub-mind to know something, it simply thinks it, and the sub-mind knows it because it's a part of the process of thinking the thought. This necessarily reduces "instantly" to slower than infinitely fast (slower than light, in fact), but is also imperceptibly fast, and thus would effectively count as instant. This cloud brain itself loses intensity with distance, as it obeys the laws of basic geometry.

 

[Katy]

Anyway, how can this thing arrive at it's destination instantly, yet also be subject to the cubed square law? If it's infinitely fast, how does it lose intensity with distance?

Don't ask me to quote where I read it but it was a few years ago n I think Tesla touched on it as well...

The mind thinks in frequency, can be registered, etc - kinda where the label psychic came into thing. Being psychic is, to put it simply, the ability to read another radio wave... kinda like tuning into the right frequency. So proximity would be required but if you've strong enough minds (say Lieutenants) then those minds would be receiving the Queen's instructions, being the more open to her specific frequency... in saying that, her mind would be friggin' powerful in order to do so and you'd need more than one queen if you were looking to dominant an entire region/ continent but I guess there could be machines that could amplify that form of frequency.

(altho, this conversation kinda reminds me a bit of the collective consciousness....)

 

[SpaceYeti]

That really didn't answer the question, I think.

 

[Katy]

hmmm... might be the way I interpreted the question

How do you think the square cubed law applies in this case?

 

[Katy]

I don't see how it does apply, that's all. It isn't about volume - it's about frequencies and how they travel

 

[SpaceYeti]

hmmm... might be the way I interpreted the question

How do you think the square cubed law applies in this case?

If the psychic communication happens truly instantly, that is, it takes zero time, then the square cubed law does not apply, because no travel actually takes place. The communication is, or at least can be, in all places at the same time. It does not spread out such that it can become weaker as it travels away from the source, as that requires traveling some distance in some amount of time. It effectively doesn't travel. It can be anywhere period if it can be any particular place at any time. My problem is that the squared cube law does not apply, thus not limiting the range of the communication. At least, not due to a weakening of the signal.

So what does limit the range?

Edit; I suppose it would apply if there was no directional control for sending the message, and the "psychic particles", for lack of a better name, were to be instantly teleported to a particular range, but in a circle around the sender instead of a target location.

 

[Katy]

If the psychic communication happens truly instantly, that is, it takes zero time, then the square cubed law does not apply, because no travel actually takes place. The communication is, or at least can be, in all places at the same time. It does not spread out such that it can become weaker as it travels away from the source, as that requires traveling some distance in some amount of time. It effectively doesn't travel. It can be anywhere period if it can be any particular place at any time. My problem is that the squared cube law does not apply, thus not limiting the range of the communication. At least, not due to a weakening of the signal.

So what does limit the range?

Edit; I suppose it would apply if there was no directional control for sending the message, and the "psychic particles", for lack of a better name, were to be instantly teleported to a particular range, but in a circle around the sender instead of a target location.

ah ok...

No, it wouldn't happen instantly - there would be a delay either in receiving due to a number of factors like being distracted or simply not strong enough to receive the signal to begin with. By what I understand in regards to telepathy, it isn't like a lightening bolt to only one person but only the recipient gets a clear image of what the instruction is like. So someone who is less receptive might get an image of flowers or bliss due to their feelings towards their leader, but the recipient would get that sense of bliss as well the message, 'go clean up isle 4'.

The further away.... I'm of two minds. It makes sense that signal strength would get weaker the further away you are from the source and yet, if you're tuned into a specific frequency (imagine your radio and how far away you can receive a particular station clearly), then it might be possible with the right factors to have a minimal delay in reception.

 

[snafupants]

... What does that have to do with anything?

The dissemination of thought you jackass.

You can't combat my posts with insight, so just stop.

Eat your cupcakes and move on.

My hypothesis; I would hypothesize that the thing which is the mind is actually a sort of cloud intelligence thing, each person within becoming a member of the mind. Thus, when the high-mind wants a sub-mind to know something, it simply thinks it, and the sub-mind knows it because it's a part of the process of thinking the thought. This necessarily reduces "instantly" to slower than infinitely fast (slower than light, in fact), but is also imperceptibly fast, and thus would effectively count as instant. This cloud brain itself loses intensity with distance, as it obeys the laws of basic geometry.

After the above rhetorical abortion are you really about to get on your high horse?

 

[SpaceYeti]

Sure, that works.

 

[Tony3d]

If mankind were to work together as a hive mind, then external competition would be minimal at best. Without competition amoung ourselves, humans would remain primative and simple creatures simply providing the required amounts of nourishment that is required for the group as a whole to survive.

Even the death of a few thousands of lowly workers would not even be worth straying from the path of ultimate survival of the group.

This human hive mind would be weak, it is the external challenge and competition among others that pushes humans to constantly grow and evolve as a civilization.

The power of the individual triumphs over all.



However, once you start going with the idea of multiple hives competing against one another for survival, then things get a bit more sketchy as to what would happen. But I will save that for another time, it seems like that might take a lot of words...

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Multiple hives is the most likely to occur in this scenario. Multiple landmasses and the such. So start typinp Tony!!