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How would you define pride?

onesteptwostep

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#1
I was reading some Augustine and he defines pride as "the assumption of self-sufficiency". This struck me a bit because I always had imagined that pride was a positive, as in a thriving and existing emotion, rather than an neutral assumption. Pride I had always thought was something that was sadist, an emotion or disposition which places one's status as better than someone else- with a snide grin even. But an assumption? I feel like this could be an attack on my cool disposition as a person.

How would you define pride yourself?
 
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#3
self-esteem - I have value, I'm worth something.
pride - I'm the best, Team America fuck yeah.
 

Dia

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well I believe it's both those things you mentionned. The assumption of self sufficiency and to an extent an emotion of being better and a thriving emotion etc.. the second pulls resources from the first. very interesting question pal
 

sdm

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#5
Not so long ago I did an assessment that said that I valued humility. I was happy to see that but I didn't know why. I looked further. Some of what I read has opposed pride against humility. Is pride self serving in it's expression of being accomplished vs humility suggests some awareness of talents but recognition of the necessity for growth?
 

higs

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#6
I was reading some Augustine and he defines pride as "the assumption of self-sufficiency". This struck me a bit because I always had imagined that pride was a positive, as in a thriving and existing emotion, rather than an neutral assumption. Pride I had always thought was something that was sadist, an emotion or disposition which places one's status as better than someone else- with a snide grin even. But an assumption? I feel like this could be an attack on my cool disposition as a person.

How would you define pride yourself?
In France there is a term that is pretty much synonymous with pride, which is "suffisance" meaning basically self-sufficiency. You can say someone is "suffisant" if they seem kind of proud or arrogant.

Augustine definitely means it as something negatively charged and power thirsty in feeling, it's not neutral if you re-contextualize it within his thoughts I believe. The assumption of self sufficiency is faulty (it's an assumption) and dissociates one from the rest of society and moral laws. It's desire to transgress the law. It's love for your own power and belief that it is equal to God's. He's mad Christian, talks a lot about the ineradicable essential root of evil in man. This evil comes about he thinks when one considers oneself independent in every sense, when one transgresses the moral law given by God, just because one can, just to prove to oneself that one is powerful and self sufficient. Being evil is being so proud you put yourself on the same level as God, not bound by his laws when in reality you are weak. Just read Paradise Lost by Milton it's exactly the same thing, specifically when Satan the fallen angel rebels against God out of pride and he has been banished to hell, doubling down on his pride, on his refusal to serve the (in his eyes) "tyrannical" good. He says :

"Hail horrours, hail
Infernal world, and thou profoundest Hell
Receive thy new Possessor: One who brings
A mind not to be chang’d by Place or Time.
The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heav’n of Hell, a Hell of Heav’n.
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less then he
Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th’ Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce
To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav’n."
Notice how the devil is isolating himself from all external influence and rule (his mind is it's own place) and proclaiming his freedom, ambition and power even in the face of a power "whom thunder hath made greater". He's a tragic character, because he can only lose against all powerful God, but he's going to try anyway. That's pride. And by his pride he puts himself in hell. His false self-sufficiency which is doomed to fail.

An assumption is believing something, usually without justification. People who are proud assume they are entirely self-sufficient when in fact no one fallible can be.

It's a good remark on pride, I always quite liked Augustine, he goes deep and is very passionate. I know it's old and christian and stuff, but he's full of interesting thoughts. I really like it when he tries to put into words what an eternal God would be like, trippy as hell. I think re stating the line more explicitly would give "excessive or faulty assumption of self sufficiency." Perhaps it's the root of evil in me speaking but surely a bit of pride is okay ? :p Oh gosh I'm gonna fall and take that apple. AK suggested further up that there's like a continuum with valuing yourself and pride as a vice, which suggests that it's valuing yourself and believing in your own power in excess.

Might I add that in Paradise lost the devil is the most interesting character and all the other good angels kind of make you wanna puke with all the singing and flowery smells wafting around heaven, so I'm pretty sure Milton profoundly understood the pull of evil as he was writing it, and Augustine was just as introspective and self critical as well.

"I don't need anyone or anything external to guide my behavior because I always know best and have da power, the law need not apply to me."<- that's pride, in this case at least. I tend to kind of conflate it with vanity but I guess it is distinct. I'd have to think about my own definition, but Augustine's is pretty interesting.

Without being sure I might bet on the fact that Augustine would say that pride would be the original and most dangerous sin of all, which is why he would be talking about it. What book are you reading ? De Civitate Dei or Confessions ?

Sorry if rambling a bit.

To answer more specifically, an assumption can go hand in hand with a feeling, Satan as written by Milton I believe displays this pretty well in the verse I quoted.
 
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