How would the various types fare in a military setting?

[Reluctantly]

Generally, most people in bad situations don't tend to think rationally unless they're intelligent and optimistic. No INTJ would be willing to be told what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and without a true reason as to why to do it.

I doubt you speak for all INTJs.

INTJs In the Military
The military needs more INTJ officers!
Military Enlistment Advice
The Profession of Arms

And everything you say is not really the case. Yes, there is a lot of being told what to do and when, but how you do it is up to you and if you have decent leaders in charge they will tell you what's going on and why you are doing what you're doing. The shitty leaders don't tell you why and will lie to get people to do stuff; but they get in trouble for it, usually from their First Sergeant through a sensing session, a soldier coming to them, or an IG complaint.

Sure i'll have my guns, but I won't listen to some schmuck who's a "man" because he's been in war. Damn barbarians.

Yes, well, the military allows women in most mos slots, as well as letting them serve as officers. Generally, if you call them a "man" they take it offensively. All that the military expects is people show some kind of resilience in complicated and strenuous situations. And if that's what being a "man" is, then it's a far cry from being a barbarian. True, there are some dumb people in the military that want everyone to be a testosterone driven muscle head intent on maxing PT scores and using aggression in place of intelligence, but these have not been the norm for me at all. Truthfully, the army seems to attract all types of people, though you do tend to find certain types of personalities in particular positions, such as infantry soldiers having more of a think later, act now mentality, but it's also how they are trained to be. They need to do that to survive in combat.

 

[Sockrates]

I doubt you speak for all INTJs.

INTJs In the Military
The military needs more INTJ officers!
Military Enlistment Advice
The Profession of Arms

And everything you say is not really the case. Yes, there is a lot of being told what to do and when, but how you do it is up to you and if you have decent leaders in charge they will tell you what's going on and why you are doing what you're doing. The shitty leaders don't tell you why and will lie to get people to do stuff; but they get in trouble for it, usually from their First Sergeant through a sensing session, a soldier coming to them, or an IG complaint.



Yes, well, the military allows women in most mos slots, as well as letting them serve as officers. Generally, if you call them a "man" they take it offensively. All that the military expects is people show some kind of resilience in complicated and strenuous situations. And if that's what being a "man" is, then it's a far cry from being a barbarian. True, there are some dumb people in the military that want everyone to be a testosterone driven muscle head intent on maxing PT scores and using aggression in place of intelligence, but these have not been the norm for me at all. Truthfully, the army seems to attract all types of people, though you do tend to find certain types of personalities in particular positions, such as infantry soldiers having more of a think later, act now mentality, but it's also how they are trained to be. They need to do that to survive in combat.

Excuse me, I left out a word, my fault. No rational INTJ would join. Well when politicians are liars and make up some story and feed it to military folk who then feed it to the commoners, a lie is still a lie and ignorance shouldn't be forgiven, so long as they choose to remain ignorant.

My dad was in the army. I've learned a lot about it through him.

 

[Alomoes]

Whoever the second guy is, I don't know. Very individualisticly minded. Saying the obvious! Yay! I need to figure out what he is.

So, then is it implied that you are pro-military, Reluctantly? Sound very passionate on the subject.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Well in military you have to take orders. Then in civilian life you have to take orders. So whats the difference. Unless you find a job where you dont take orders from anyone or you build a business for your self you are going to be taking orders from someone all your life. Discipline? Whats the big deal. IN military all they want is simple following of rules. Any idiot can follow them thats why military can afford to have anyone working for them. The smarter ones will become officers or will do some speciality job. Military will find use for all. What are the benefits? One major benefit is steady income and lots of free things.

 

[The Grey Man]

Excuse me, I left out a word, my fault. No rational INTJ would join. Well when politicians are liars and make up some story and feed it to military folk who then feed it to the commoners, a lie is still a lie and ignorance shouldn't be forgiven, so long as they choose to remain ignorant.

My dad was in the army. I've learned a lot about it through him.

You didn't actually address any of Reluctantly's points, instead resorting to an ad hominem, and an inaccurate one at that. Since I don't get paid to spread lies, I don't (besides which I wouldn't), and I doubt your father was, unless he was in psychological warfare or something.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Generally, most people in bad situations don't tend to think rationally unless they're intelligent and optimistic. No INTJ would be willing to be told what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and without a true reason as to why to do it.

Sure i'll have my guns, but I won't listen to some schmuck who's a "man" because he's been in war. Damn barbarians.

Your claim seems to insinuate that people in good situations are more rational than those in bad, which I see no evidence of. Further, your father seems to have lied to you about how the military works, because it does not work the way you say it does. You say your father was in the Army (not in this post). Well I was in the Army. I have experience with both toxic leadership as well as good leadership and shades inbetween. Even toxic leaders don't say to listen to them because they're a man. Selfish and bad, sure, but acting that way removes you from positions that mean anything, and generally get you demoted really quick. Even toxic leaders work within the generally nurturing system.

 

[Sockrates]

You didn't actually address any of Reluctantly's points, instead resorting to an ad hominem, and an inaccurate one at that. Since I don't get paid to spread lies, I don't (besides which I wouldn't), and I doubt your father was, unless he was in psychological warfare or something.

Her points are important to address, why? My father was an E5 when he left on his own will, even though the army wanted him to stay, they saw potential in him but he's smarter than that. He did what he had to do for himself at that point in time, which I respect. After 3 years of what he considered to be a waste of time and effort, but a lot of fun, he went home to pursue a life of hard work where he is his own boss and sets his own appointments. There's a reason for why he is the way he is, I'm able to interpret and understand this and it has lead to such conclusions.

You may doubt all you like, it doesn't change reality.

Your claim seems to insinuate that people in good situations are more rational than those in bad, which I see no evidence of. Further, your father seems to have lied to you about how the military works, because it does not work the way you say it does. You say your father was in the Army (not in this post). Well I was in the Army. I have experience with both toxic leadership as well as good leadership and shades inbetween. Even toxic leaders don't say to listen to them because they're a man. Selfish and bad, sure, but acting that way removes you from positions that mean anything, and generally get you demoted really quick. Even toxic leaders work within the generally nurturing system.

I would make the claim that those in the middle class are the most likely to be able to be rational. The poor and rich have been put in extreme situations, generally causing them to have a subjective view on things, whereas the middle class see things for what they are, on both sides of the spectrum, allowing them to understand both sides as well. I hope that makes sense to you. I agree with the end of what you wrote, it would only make sense for toxic people to do such a thing. Even though this toxic spreads throughout, causing a toxic system to eventually be put in place.

 

[The Grey Man]

Her points are important to address, why?

Because they directly contradicted yours, and had real military experience backing them up.

My father was an E5 when he left on his own will, even though the army wanted him to stay, they saw potential in him but he's smarter than that. He did what he had to do for himself at that point in time, which I respect. After 3 years of what he considered to be a waste of time and effort, but a lot of fun, he went home to pursue a life of hard work where he is his own boss and sets his own appointments. There's a reason for why he is the way he is, I'm able to interpret and understand this and it has lead to such conclusions.

Sounds a lot like my father. He didn't consider his experiences in the military to be a waste of his time, though. I can interpret and understand this, and come to conclusions radically different from yours. It doesn't really matter though; my own experience is more useful in drawing conclusions than secondhand accounts of his.

You may doubt all you like, it doesn't change reality.

You're right. Thanks for opening my eyes, wise one

 

[SpaceYeti]

I would make the claim that those in the middle class are the most likely to be able to be rational. The poor and rich have been put in extreme situations, generally causing them to have a subjective view on things, whereas the middle class see things for what they are, on both sides of the spectrum, allowing them to understand both sides as well. I hope that makes sense to you. I agree with the end of what you wrote, it would only make sense for toxic people to do such a thing. Even though this toxic spreads throughout, causing a toxic system to eventually be put in place.

That sure seems like a glaring golden mean fallacy. Just because they're not in the extremes doesn't mean they're any more or less rational. They may have a more solid basis for prior information equating to future trends, thus making their decisions easier to make, maybe, but a person is rational or irrational regardless. Being rational is using what information you have to make the best decisions you can.

That's just it, the toxic does not spread throughout. That was my entire point. The Army is a very nurturing system, as a whole. Sure, I didn't like it, but I grew as a person and am in a better position now than I was before, due to the Army, due to good leaders, and due to policies designed specifically to weed out the bad ones.

Listen, you're arguing about how the Army works, and you haven't even given it a try. Do you really know how it works? Could you describe it? I could, and it's nothing like the horror you describe so far. It seems as though you're basing your knowledge of the military on what you see in movies like Starship Troopers, where it's far more similar to what's described in Starship Troopers. (though not nearly as awesome or demanding)