how to show remorse

[ruminator]

Someone did something to me. It cannot be undone, and it has permanently affected my life in a very drastic way (to the point where I feel like my life is ruined).

I've accepted it and am trying to move forward, but as I face the hardship that follows I think to myself "this is his fault". If I knew that he understands the seriousness of the harm he has caused and feels sorry for doing this to me, I would feel a lot better and it would help me let go and move forward.

When I spoke to him about it, all he does is give me advice on how to deal with it and stay positive and get over it. "If you stay positive and hope for the best, things will work out for you"; "It is going to be a challenge but it will make you a stronger person". And when I asked him if he feels sorry for putting me through this in the first place he said he is, but he is not going to sit and feel bad about it because that is pointless. He said there's nothing we can do now, and the only thing I can do is stop focusing on the negative and try to stay positive for the future.

I feel that there is a huge problem with the way he is treating this. It may be true that the only thing I can do is stay positive for the future, but at this stage, I feel that he SHOULD feel bad and can't lack remorse just because it's "pointless". I feel that he should not be giving me advice on dealing with the harm HE caused because it feels like he is trying to push it on me and run away from facing what he did and facing the guilt, it's his mistake so it's his responsibility to fix it, and if he can't fix it then he has to face it, he can't tell me to be positive to assuage his guilt.

But I don't know how to explain all this, I don't know how to explain why what he's doing (saying remorse is pointless, rationalizing by telling me to be positive, etc) is wrong. I don't know how to articulate why the way he's acting is wrong and it's driving me crazy!

The main thing that gives me stress in life is when I can't articulate/explain what I'm thinking and feeling, so I come to this forum in hope that you all could understand what I'm trying to say and help me express it.

 

[Jennywocky]

Not knowing the specifics, I can't comment specifically.

But what I hear you saying is that:

1. This man hurt you badly.
2. He doesn't seem remorseful enough for the pain he caused you.
3. This is upsetting to you.

I don't know whether you're referring to a breakup, or an episode of cheating, or whatever else, but what I typed above seems to summarize your feelings. It doesn't sound complicated for someone to understand. You explained it well enough here.

It does sound like one thing you're fixating on is somehow "getting him to accept the blame" or recognize how badly he hurt you in words that you can accept. But this could be unrealistic.

In life, sometimes people hurt us badly, and they never do come to terms, never do apologize, never do accept responsibility for their actions. And we are then left with the choice of festering in that anger and hurt regardless, or choosing to save ourselves and fix our lives and keep moving forward. (I could give you a long story about how my dad treated me, and it was never resolved, and I had to learn how to move forward regardless.)

You will alway be trapped until you can accept that this guy did hurt you and that you need to work through it for your own sake regardless of whether he responds. You can't make someone apologize or see things your way; but you can accept that he did fail you terribly, and that you didn't deserve it, and that you have the power to move forward.

In terms of the relationship itself: If he didn't end your relationship but is trying to stay in a relationship with you, you are not required to do so if you have found him untrustworthy and unable to take responsibility for the hurt he has caused. IOW, you can't force him to accept the blame for what he did; but at the same time, he can't force you to trust him when you don't.

In that case, it makes sense to try to get through to him; but you have the caveat of saying, "If you're unable to see how badly you hurt me and accept the fault for what you did, then I can't trust you and we will no longer be in a relationship."

 

[Cognisant]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you're female and "he" was your former partner/boyfriend?

I feel that he SHOULD feel bad and can't lack remorse just because it's "pointless".

Why, because it upsets you?
Do you believe you are entitled to his pain because you're in pain?

I feel that he should not be giving me advice on dealing with the harm HE caused because it feels like he is trying to push it on me and run away from facing what he did and facing the guilt, it's his mistake so it's his responsibility to fix it, and if he can't fix it then he has to face it, he can't tell me to be positive to assuage his guilt.

Has he wronged you or just left you, it seems like that wouldn't be in question if he'd wronged you in some explicable way so I'm assuming he just left you, so then why should he feel guilty, sure this hurts you but that's your problem.

That's how it works for everybody else.

I don't know how to articulate why the way he's acting is wrong and it's driving me crazy!

I may be wrong but, maybe the way he's acting isn't wrong?
Maybe loss hurts and that's just how it is.

Edit: Damn you ninja!

 

[Absurdity]

The guy is dodging responsibility for his actions with a barrage of platitudes. Pretty transparent coping mechanism.

 

[Jennywocky]

Edit: Damn you ninja!

I don't accept any responsibility for my ninja'ing.


Absurdity does sum up the guy well: I've dealt with platitude people before, it's all about absolving themselves at other's expense.

 

[Cognisant]

The guy is dodging responsibility for his actions with a barrage of platitudes. Pretty transparent coping mechanism.

For him or her?

Edit: AAARGH you did it again

Absurdity does sum up the guy well: I've dealt with platitude people before, it's all about absolving themselves at other's expense.

Uh hello what did he do?

He left her, that's all I can make out and I think people regardless of gender are entitled to do that.

 

[ruminator]

As I read through all of your responses, just an FYI:

I'm not sure where I indicated this was just about someone leaving me. But that's false.

If this was about someone just hurting my feelings by leaving me or cheating, it wouldn't be an issue because those feelings are transient. Once I heal, my life will go back to the way it was, unharmed, undamaged.

But in this scenario, the person did something that caused damage to my life which is permanent. I am now in a situation where no matter how much I heal, no matter what I do, it cannot be fixed. I will have to face this damage forever, my life will not go back to the way it was. The only thing I can do is accept it, but I cannot change it.

It's like if someone blinds you - you can never get your eyesight back. The only thing you can do is stay strong and positive and learn how to live with it.

 

[Jennywocky]

... the person did something that caused damage to my life which is permanent. I am now in a situation where no matter how much I heal, no matter what I do, it cannot be fixed. I will have to face this damage forever, my life will not go back to the way it was. The only thing I can do is accept it, but I cannot change it.

It's like if someone blinds you - you can never get your eyesight back. The only thing you can do is stay strong and positive and learn how to live with it.

That's how I feel about my dad.

But he died before ever apologizing for the things he did to me, and I was left holding the bag [yet one more case of screwing me over]. I actually went to therapy here at work to get counseling on how to deal with it, because I was experiencing massive depression and even some self-destructive ideation and couldn't get out of it.

He's dead. I'm alive.
I'll always have scars, but I have to learn how to live regardless as best I can.

 

[Cherry Cola]

He doesn't want to admit the gravity of what he's done because that let's him deal with it.

Meanwhile you want him to understand the hurt he's caused you, to bring the situation into the light so that you can move on.

Since he was the one that hurt you it's his fucking fault so he should own up to what he's done by letting you talk it out with him the way you want to. His saying it is pointless to mull over it is something he's saying out of denial, selfishness, ignorance or some combination of the three. Sure it might not help him in the short run, in fact it wont as it'll be hard for him. But at the same time, he needs to understand what he's done to you in order to develop as a human being. He can't own up to what he's done before he understands what he's done.

Besides what he wants doesn't matter. He did this to you, it's his fucking responsibility to talk it over with you in whatever way you need to talk it over. Needing to talk about something awful that has happened for a time is not pointless, it's a natural way of dealing with something difficult that has happened. Internalizing all those bad feelings and just letting them brew inside you like he wants you to do is most likely a bad idea. That's his halfassed approach which only works for him because of his lack of empathy.

 

[Absurdity]

There doesn't seem to be much sense in talking about what he should do, since he is clearly less than cooperative in this situation.

If he's guilty of anything criminal, OP should report, it assuming she as evidence.

If not then at least we might be able to help her understand that the man she is dealing with has a variety of defense mechanisms he is using to avoid feeling guilty. This could be from fear in the best case scenario or a deeper pathology in a less pleasant case. Perhaps this understanding of his cognitive disfunction will ease her suffering a bit.

 

[The Gopher]

Hmm I actually wondered about something similar. If I became temporarily insane and killed someone how would I act when I came out of the insanity? I probably would lack remorse and pretend I didn't care as a defense mechanism. Of course it would be worse for me if I was in court and sentenced on that basis unless a psychologist worked out what was going on.

For the record I'm not planning anything was just writing a story involving this.

 

[Cognisant]

Don't want to be a complete asshole here but I'm still in the "shit happens" camp.

I mean there's no happy ending to this sort of thing, no amount of talking about it is ever going to fix anything, even revenge will just leave you feeling hollow, as callous as I know this sounds I still honestly think the best course of action is to bury the past and move on. Not for his sake, absolutely not for his sake he should be punished, rather I'm talking about you, psychological wounds fade not as a natural process of healing but rather by being overwritten and forgotten.

You have to decide that you want to forget, that holding onto the past isn't worth sacrificing your future because if you don't confront yourself and overcome that anger it will fester inside you and there will be no compensation that can appease it.

 

[Jennywocky]

... For the record I'm not planning anything was just writing a story involving this.

Oh dear, uh... thank you for clarifying that.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Absurdity: I know I'm just trying to help the OP articulate things. There might not be any way to get him cooperating.

 

[Absurdity]

Absurdity: I know I'm just trying to help the OP articulate things. There might not be any way to get him cooperating.

 

[StevenM]

I'm wondering what the specifics are of the situation. Is it really permanent, and is there a practical way of dealing with the situation?

I know there has been times in my life where I have been extremely humiliated, and during the event, believing fully that it had a permanent impact on my life. Giving it 5 years, it seems that it was not the case at all.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I think that the most important person in this scenario is you, not that guy/whoever.

If some entity caused permanent damage and is unable to repair or redeem itself in your eyes, it is possible that such an entity is a parasite and causes harm.

I can only guess that you have suffered great loss, maybe you lost someone, maybe you are physically injured. I wonder why making someone feel remorse would be more important than ensuring that person repays their fault the best they can.

Is it because you have feelings for this person that you find it important as a part of reconciliation?

Does this person offer something besides simple encouragements and abnormal optimism in the face of permanent damage and its apparent involvement in it? Any help, support? (Words are cheap and I would discount them as helpful, but it depends)

Out of many possibilities he could be a sociopath and unable to feel guilt. I think I know a similar case and any further interaction didn't go well.

Last question, is it the kind of damage where you could successfully present your claims in the court to receive some compensation?

 

[Grayman]

When I spoke to him about it, all he does is give me advice on how to deal with it and stay positive and get over it. "If you stay positive and hope for the best, things will work out for you"; "It is going to be a challenge but it will make you a stronger person". And when I asked him if he feels sorry for putting me through this in the first place he said he is, but he is not going to sit and feel bad about it because that is pointless. He said there's nothing we can do now, and the only thing I can do is stop focusing on the negative and try to stay positive for the future.

This underlined statement is almost word for word what I would once say to my counselor in marrital consoling with my wife.

In part there is a communication issue. One he is being logical but you need an emotional expression and understanding from him and not a fix to a situation.

In his mind he feels bad BUT does not dwell on those feelings because he believes that the past is over and will always be a messed up place that never changes but the future holds possibilities however slim the chance that they be good may be, there are possibilities. In my case I looked toward a future of what I could offer my wife instead of focusing on what I had done to my wife to cause her to resent me for 5 years.

Even the smallest of problems took the backseat to the Issue and every problem was left undiscussed as she brought up the past over and over whenever she felt wronged by me. We both felt like we were not getting anywhere. She always brought up her feelings of this event in the past and we could never move past it to resolve other issues and every argument ended with nothing being resolved and both of us feelign frustrated with compounding issues and her list of aggravation growing bigger and bigger.

I wanted her to move on so she can heal and she wanted something out of me that I did not understand. I wanted her to have a better life and a better marriage and this required her to move on but she could not see past that event and I could do nothing to fix it or change it.

It took me awhile to finally understand. She needed me to ‘show’ her that I cared so deeply about what happened that I suffer as much regret or more for the loss she faced. She wanted me to simply communicate the measure of my care.

What she did not realize is that I so deeply cared and that I had suffered along with her the whole time. I wanted nothing more than to fix what happened and to make things better where I could. I could not. I did not dwell on it because it was simply impossible to fix and the frustration from that knowledge grew with every passing day and every time I saw the pain in my wife from the destruction I caused. The only thing I had to offer her was to help her end her suffering, to move on, to discover a different happiness. Things will never be the same but it was the only thing I had to give her and I desperately wanted to her to have that and to move on. She did not see it as me trying to help but as me avoiding ownership of my guilt. Her rejection of the only thing I knew would make thigns better for her became my ever greater frustration.

In the end he has to realize that although logically it cannot be fixed, before you can only make thigns better by moving on, you need to know emotionally that it affected him as much as it did you. You need this validation before you can start the healing process.

The thing is that it will not be an easy thing for him to show nor an easy thing for you to accept because as time has gone on and he has continued to be the same uncaring person how could you suddenly believe he is anything different?

 

[Grayman]

The disconnect...

I am to quick to forgive.
My wife is very slow to forgive.

I am unaware of being mistreated.
My wife is hyperaware.

I quickly move on from my own problems often too soon causing me to make similar mistakes
My wife takes too long from moving on and misses out on newer and alternate possibilities


These personalities conflict in a way that I expect her to move on at a faster pace but still not as fast as I. She expects me to care more about issues and dwell and discuss them but not as much as she. We have to meet in the middle and accept that the other means well in their own way.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

In a situation like this, it's understandable to want him to express his remorse for what he did to your life and the irrevocable change that you now have to deal with. He has not been forthcoming and hasn't taken the initiative to express his sorrow for his actions but instead you've initiated the conversation and he's side-stepped it. This seems to be a matter of justice for you. The scales are out of balance and you can't let it go since he refuses to be remorseful.

The fact is you DON'T NEED his confession! You can unilaterally hold him accountable. You can validate your own experience and unhook from the need for his confession. No amount of friends, family and forum members taking your side will substitute for your own internal courage and self-validation. It's the thing that frees you and will give you self-respect and energize you to rebuild your life.

For your own benefit, you may want to first allow yourself to grieve and experience your feelings of loss (if you haven't already done that). Talking to a counselor may also be helpful. You're not alone in this as most of us have dealt with unfairness and people who won't hold themselves accountable.

 

[Grayman]

In a situation like this, it's understandable to want him to express his remorse for what he did to your life and the irrevocable change that you now have to deal with. He has not been forthcoming and hasn't taken the initiative to express his sorrow for his actions but instead you've initiated the conversation and he's side-stepped it. This seems to be a matter of justice for you. The scales are out of balance and you can't let it go since he refuses to be remorseful

I would venture to guess that he has verbally accepted fault and has used the over used phrase of "I am sorry". What is likely the bigger issue is thathe is not convincing.

Already we accept fault on his part and yet we do not truly know if he is simply unable to properly articulate his remorse, after all not all men cry or show such distress as a some men or many woman do. We do not know if it caused by an inability to trust the intentions of this man because of background issues. We do not know if he really will not apologize like an obstinate fool. All we really know is that the OP is not being adequately validated by this man.

By reinforcing that he is guilty without knowing these things we could be enabling trust issues, promoting a false belief in his inability to accept his actions while further incriminating him when he is simple inept in satisfying the OP and her concerns. Perhaps we shouldnwait for her to fully define how she thinks he is not remorseful. She has specifically stated that she is not even fully aware of why she thinks this of him.

 

[Grayman]

Sorry PP this was meant more for Absurdity and i think CC. Are the edit buttons gone?

ANyways, I agree with you PP.

 

[Cavallier]

In a situation like this, it's understandable to want him to express his remorse for what he did to your life and the irrevocable change that you now have to deal with. He has not been forthcoming and hasn't taken the initiative to express his sorrow for his actions but instead you've initiated the conversation and he's side-stepped it. This seems to be a matter of justice for you. The scales are out of balance and you can't let it go since he refuses to be remorseful.

The fact is you DON'T NEED his confession! You can unilaterally hold him accountable. You can validate your own experience and unhook from the need for his confession. No amount of friends, family and forum members taking your side will substitute for your own internal courage and self-validation. It's the thing that frees you and will give you self-respect and energize you to rebuild your life.

For your own benefit, you may want to first allow yourself to grieve and experience your feelings of loss (if you haven't already done that). Talking to a counselor may also be helpful. You're not alone in this as most of us have dealt with unfairness and people who won't hold themselves accountable.

^Exactly.

Call the bastard a bastard because he is one. It would be nice to know that he is a good enough person to never do this to anybody else but even if that were true it still wouldn't help you much.

Then, after you've done that you need to find a way of redefining your life and your goals so that whatever he did to you doesn't count as "life changing".

 

[ruminator]

Thank you all for your responses,

Jenny:
I'm sorry to hear about what happened with your father. It must have been so hard to let things go without getting the apology and closure you needed. I know I might have to do the same. But I want to give it one more shot, to make him understand before giving up and moving forward.

Absurdity:
I agree with you, it does feel like he is dodging responsibility. But the difficulty here is...technically what he's saying is true (It is possible for me to be positive, it is true that we can't change the past, etc). So I can't articulate why/how he is dodging responsibility merely by telling the truth....

Also, you are absolutely right when you said that if he has some sort of psychological issue with facing guilt and is using defense mechanisms, understanding that would certainly ease my suffering because I would feel like he's incapable of feeling it in the first place.

Cherry:
Thanks for that response, I think you really properly articulated the whole issue of him thinking it's pointless to talk about what happened. One thing, however, is that I don't think just 'talking about it' is what he is against though. it's the whole 'feeling guilt/remorse' that he is against. What he's avoiding are those feelings themselves. I think when you said "He needs to understand what he's done to me in order to develop" you were very correct. I also feel that you have to look at the negatives in order to feel bad, and you have to feel bad in order to be sorry...it's a process, and you can't gloss over the negatives and just jump forward. But the difficulty is that in his mind he thinks:

1) just acknowledging the negative (by merely stating yes I agree) is enough..he doesn't have to think about it/feel for it;
2) he lessens the gravity of the situation with his "but you can still be positive", "but it will make you stronger", "but you can have hope that its for the best" statements....so on a scale of 1-10, if the harm is a 10, he is reducing it in his mind to a 5 because he is adding those "but this but that" statements in.

And I frankly do not know how to articulate why those two things are wrong.

Everyone:

I'm not attempting to keep this person in my life any longer. I'm going to cut him off. My plan is to make myself heard and once he genuinely feels sorry I will stop talking to him and move forward.

And I agree with Jenny, Cognisant, and Paradox that if he is avoiding guilt/accoutability it is best for me to let it go. But even if I'm going to do that, it still helps to just articulate what he's doing (the avoidance) and why it's wrong...I don't know I just have this thing where it really bothers me when I can't articulate/explain something and I think about it for days and days and can't let it go unless I figure out what I'm thinking. Articulating and figuring out how to explain what's in my head is a way for me to express myself and that helps me let my thoughts out and let them go.

The reasons I feel that he isn't remorseful:
- he was extremely hesitant to apologize and kept giving nonsensical blame shifting reasons before finally giving in
- when I try to explain the harm, instead of accepting it, he tries to put a bandaid over it with his optimistic statements to make it seem less bad (if you look above at my response to Cherry, I explained this in there)
- nonchalant attitude when we speak about it
- etc

I've known this person for a long time and there were times in the past, for other things, when he HAS showed me genuine remorse/being sorry. I know what that looks like.

If he was sorry he would be the one reaching out to me, he would say "I know you're in a horrible situation now because X,Y,Z" instead of covering it up with optimistic statements, he would be the one asking me what he can do to make things better instead of just telling me to get over it, I would be able to sense the sadness in his voice like I have in the past, that's really all I expect as an apology.

I read Grayman's last post about how maybe I am expecting too much - I am not expecting him to beg at my feet for a month. I just want him to accept and have some empathy for how bad I'm harmed without dismissing it with his optimistic "but this but that" statements, and take responsibility for doing it to me.

In terms of articulation, the one thing that is really bothering me is the "but this but that" stuff (IN the above reply to Cherry, I talked about him making a level 10 go down to a 5 because of his expectation that I'd be optimistic). Is there a word for this?? It seems similar to rationalizing, but that's not on point. It feels really wrong.....but I don't know what to call it or how to explain why.

THink of the example I gave in my prior post about someone blinding you...imagine if someone blinded you and all they said was "yeah it sucks BUT you'll be fine - you just have to stay positive and be strong and things will work out" isn't that insensitive?? if someone beats you up and paralyzes you and says "you'll be fine"...if someone frames you for a crime and you end up in jail and they come visit you and says "your situation is bad but you'll be fine, just be positive". Isn't that messed up?? Someone ELSE can say those things to make you feel better....but the person who CAUSED the harm cannot. The person who CAUSED the harm has to think "yeah it's really bad, i've ruined her life, i've done this, i've done that" and face the negatives in all their travesty without assuaging it. Only after they've done this, as time goes on sure maybe they can make themselves feel better later by turning it into a positive....but not without going through the step of facing it first..

^^^ I've tried my best there to explain what I'm thinking...but I still don't know the proper name for what that's called and the proper way to articulate why it's bad

 

[Absurdity]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimisation_(psychology)

This is extremely manipulative behavior. You should get as far away from this person as possible, as this sounds like an abusive relationship.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I'm not attempting to keep this person in my life any longer. I'm going to cut him off. My plan is to make myself heard and once he genuinely feels sorry I will stop talking to him and move forward.

THink of the example I gave in my prior post about someone blinding you...imagine if someone blinded you and all they said was "yeah it sucks BUT you'll be fine - you just have to stay positive and be strong and things will work out" isn't that insensitive?? if someone beats you up and paralyzes you and says "you'll be fine"...if someone frames you for a crime and you end up in jail and they come visit you and says "your situation is bad but you'll be fine, just be positive". Isn't that messed up??

If that's the case that guy is really sick. It is really dangerous to get close to a person that presents obvious mistreatment in such a way and openly to his victim. This may sound harsh but you are probably lucky that he didn't put you in a basement or manipulate you into something else.

The advice would be to not allow him to ever get in touch with you. His remorse has no value as you are going to forget this guy anyway and he is a genuine psycho.

 

[ruminator]

Wait I hope you didn't misunderstand - those examples I gave (blinding, framing for a crime, etc) are just hypothetical examples to illustrate my point of how saying "you'll be fine" to your victim feels intuitively wrong. Those things didn't really happen

 

[Grayman]

Wait I hope you didn't misunderstand - those examples I gave (blinding, framing for a crime, etc) are just hypothetical examples to illustrate my point of how saying "you'll be fine" to your victim feels intuitively wrong. Those things didn't really happen

Until you tell us what he atually did I am inclined to assume you are exaggerating the level of his offense or the measure of his part in it.... well I guess you have been exaggerating since you had to clarify. ?.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Until you tell us what he atually did I am inclined to assume you are exaggerating the level of his offense or the measure of his part in it.... well I guess you have been exaggerating since you had to clarify. ?.

....because....?

 

[Absurdity]

....because....?

Seems to me because he's cast the situation in a way that makes him identify with the man.

 

[Hadoblado]

It doesn't seem like minimisation to me. It feels like he acknowledges what happens, probably feels regret, but does not want to shoulder the burden of making things right. In all probability he does feel like shit about it, but ruining someone's life isn't something easily undone. If the damage is irreversible, then from his perspective, he can only lose from helping you.

 

[Polaris]

Run, get the fuck out of there. Don't expect anything from someone like that.

 

[Grayman]

@CC and Absurdity

Someone did something to me. It cannot be undone, and it has permanently affected my life in a very drastic way (to the point where I feel like my life is ruined).

First he/she starts off with "'feel like' my life is ruined", meaning that it may not in fact be ruined and that regardless of what 'is' he cannot get past what his emotions are saying to him.

When I spoke to him about it, all he does is give me advice on how to deal with it and stay positive and get over it. "If you stay positive and hope for the best, things will work out for you"; "It is going to be a challenge but it will make you a stronger person". And when I asked him if he feels sorry for putting me through this in the first place he said he is, but he is not going to sit and feel bad about it because that is pointless. He said there's nothing we can do now, and the only thing I can do is stop focusing on the negative and try to stay positive for the future.

The other guy says he is sorry but it is disregarded by the OP as being 'invalid' as OP continues to claim he is not sorry.

They guy says there is nothing 'we' can do. This would indicate the guy wants to play an active role in helping but sees no path to take. How is this running from responsibility? Has he been given a reasonable answer on how he can help or is the emotional frustration of the OP preventing him from being reasonable and working with the other guy? If the guy says he is sorry a number of times and the OP continues to press the other guy for some kind of validation and the other guy is frustrated knowing he cannot get help in any way, shouldn't he tell the OP that the only solution is to move on?

Why should the guy focus on things he cannot change and make himself suffer stress anxiety etc instead of focusing on the future where greater possibilities lay? Would it be helpful to your son if you accidentally did something to lose his eyesight to mope about all the time and say how horrible a person you are or would it be more helpful for you to teach your son to survive without his eyesight?

Why does it seem like the OP played a role in what occurred?

 

[Red myst]

From what I gather, It takes 2 to tango. And one person came out more adversely effected than the other. Now the OP wants someone to share the pain. Misery loves company. I say shit happens, and what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

 

[Cherry Cola]

@CC and Absurdity



First he/she starts off with "'feel like' my life is ruined", meaning that it may not in fact be ruined and that regardless of what 'is' he cannot get past what his emotions are saying to him.



The other guy says he is sorry but it is disregarded by the OP as being 'invalid' as OP continues to claim he is not sorry.

They guy says there is nothing 'we' can do. This would indicate the guy wants to play an active role in helping but sees no path to take. How is this running from responsibility? Has he been given a reasonable answer on how he can help or is the emotional frustration of the OP preventing him from being reasonable and working with the other guy? If the guy says he is sorry a number of times and the OP continues to press the other guy for some kind of validation and the other guy is frustrated knowing he cannot get help in any way, shouldn't he tell the OP that the only solution is to move on?

Why should the guy focus on things he cannot change and make himself suffer stress anxiety etc instead of focusing on the future where greater possibilities lay? Would it be helpful to your son if you accidentally did something to lose his eyesight to mope about all the time and say how horrible a person you are or would it be more helpful for you to teach your son to survive without his eyesight?

Why does it seem like the OP played a role in what occurred?

For starters, whether or not the OP's life is literally ruined or not isn't relevant, the point is something terrible happened to the OP and this guy is to blame for it.

He is running from responsibility by seeking the path of least resistance for himself while ignoring the needs of the person he wounded. The OP needs to talk but he will not because he doesn't want to face up to his own guilt in the matter. He vies to forget rather than face what has happened. He says there is nothing to be done, but clearly there is. The OP is not looking for sorry's but for him to be willing to talk with the OP about what happened so that he may understand what he has done to the OP. As he is the one who did the deed, he should be able to do this for the OP.

You say that the guy wants to help but doesn't think he can. Why then is he not willing to even try? How can you presume to know that talking things over wouldn't help the OP? To me it seems that you assume things must be handled by means of defiant stoicism, but in reality that's not an effective approach for dealing with trauma.

It seems to me that just as Absurdity said you identify with the perpetrator in this case, you imagine him to be like you. But that isn't necessarily the case as neither you nor I know the specifics. However, there is no reason to assume the OP is lying. Sure there isn't any particular reason to assume the OP isn't lying either but why not give the OP benefit of the doubt? The basic approach to threads like this one is to give the benefit of the doubt to begin with.

@Red myst: Okay, what a shame then that the human psyche isn't as simple as your stance on this matter.

 

[ruminator]

Absurdity:
Thanks for that link. It certainly feels like that's what he's doing. But can it also be minimization if the rationalizing statements are true??

"It sucks I framed you and put you in jail, but you deserved it/being in jail isn't a big deal/it wasn't my fault" - stuff like that I can see being minimization because those "but" statements are false.

"It sucks I framed you and put you in jail, but you can still appeal the decision/you can be positive and hope for the best/you can face the challenge and it will make you a stronger person/you can go to therapy and become happy again" ---- is that called minimization too? because those "but" statements are actually true. The victim can do those things.

I've looked on the internet and all the examples of minimization I found were about people denying fault, and lying about the severity of the harm (saying things that are actually false). But I didn't find anything saying giving advice to your victim "but you can stay positive, etc" is also called minimization.

Grayman:

If you'd read my prior post you would know that I'm not unreasonably saying his sorry isn't genuine. It is quite obvious when a sorry is genuine and when it is BS (I even listed a few specific reasons/examples).

focusing on the positives is something the victim can do to make himself feel better...but the perp can't do that to make himself feel better. The perp has to face the negatives he caused and not avoid it by diverting to the positives.

I agree that there's nothing to do now but look forward. However, that doesn't mean you take remorse out of the picture. It's a necessary step in the process and you can't just avoid it...

 

[Red myst]

To OP, for what it's worth, I find myself remorseful over past things I have done that I am not proud of at times. It takes a while to set in, and usually is triggered by some current event that I see someone else do. Could be 30 years later, and something happens that triggers a memory of something unethical I did and I feel a remorse and sadness that I did not feel then. Fortunately for me these were isolated incidents and not done out of meanness or part of my normal character. So sometimes I see things and think to my self how fucked up that was and I did something similar once. I don't think there is anything you can do about the other person if he is stuck in denial or whatever. If he is truly a prick, then what goes around comes around eventually. But if this is a decent person, at some point they may feel very remorseful about the situation even though you are nowhere around to know. Regardless, you are in charge of your own feelings, you are allowing him to hurt you further by ruminating about it. Think of it this way, he may be unable to feel guilt right now as a self defense mechanism just as you are unable to let this thing go without some real sincere communication with this other person. The two of you are at odds with each other. Such matters can take years to resolve. Find a perspective to look at your situation that will allow you to live with the facts as they are now and move on. Things have a way of working themselves out without trying to force them. Im 51 years old, I can tell you, life's too short for all the bitterness.

 

[Grayman]

@CC

Yes we should give him the benefit of the doubt but what is said and the way it is said and the exaggerated comparisons used indicate that the OP is exaggerating the situation.

I've looked on the internet and all the examples of minimization I found were about people denying fault, and lying about the severity of the harm (saying things that are actually false). But I didn't find anything saying giving advice to your victim "but you can stay positive, etc" is also called minimization.

It is more of a matter of 'is he trying to help you get better for your sake' or 'for his'. The exact words can have so many different meanings depending on the background and the tone in which they were used because these things help us understand the intentions of the speaker.

What i disagree with Absurdity on is the mostly centered around the word "Dwell". It is not healthy to dwell. It is good to be remorseful. It is good to consider adn discuss. I is good actively adapt to a new situation. It is good to talk but a healthy person who has good coping skills does not dwell in things that cannot be changed.

Your comparisons:
These comparisons indicate the injustice was deliberate. Was his injustice to you so deliberate?

Some of these comparisons indicate a physical and life damaging event that is irreparable. Is it? Or do you only feel like it is something you will never get 'fully' past because right now you are just so dismayed by what occurred?

Your comparisons indicate that you were the only one affected and he was the only one who played a role in this. Is this right? The quoted statement of the other guy uses the word 'We' instead of 'you' will get through this...

YOu can give an example and I can tell you, yes that guy is a prick, that was an asshole move. What does it matter what I think of the guy in your comparison because the man you are having issues with is not the guy in the comparison and he did not do the thing in the comparison. The only thing we are getting from you is a picture of how you see the situation and not what the situation really was.

 

[redbaron]

How do we know the OP is exaggerating exactly?

 

[Red myst]

I am still trying to figure out how a person (OP) could find themselves in a position that they can be so entirely devastated by 1 persons act that they think there entire life is screwed up now. That is the first issue I have. And the second is why the OP is dependent on a sincere apology in order to feel better, move on, whatever.
If its not a financial or parental obligation or a criminal act, what could be such a big deal between two adults that one could think their life is ruined?
And what is the part the OP played in the incident in the first place?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I am still trying to figure out how a person (OP) could find themselves in a position that they can be so entirely devastated by 1 persons act that they think there entire life is screwed up now. That is the first issue I have. And the second is why the OP is dependent on a sincere apology in order to feel better, move on, whatever.
If its not a financial or parental obligation or a criminal act, what could be such a big deal between two adults that one could think their life is ruined?
And what is the part the OP played in the incident in the first place?

You are presented with a hypothetical scenario and asked to find a solution to a problem.

Then you start asking about the specifics and trying to understand why this problem needs solving at all? And for what sake should you be given this information? You presumably are here to try to help solve it, aren't you?

Why not treat this thread as a problem-solving challenge and try to come up with something?

 

[Cherry Cola]

You are presented with a hypothetical scenario and asked to find a solution to a problem.

Then you start asking about the specifics and trying to understand why this problem needs solving at all? And for what sake should you be given this information? You presumably are here to try to help solve it, aren't you?

Why not treat this thread as a problem-solving challenge and try to come up with something?

This is what I'm trying to get at. I don't see the need to question the situation because there aren't any signs that point towards the OP being misleading. You have to give benefit of the doubt for there to be any point to threads like these.

I don't think the unspecified nature of the deed is reason enough to assume the OP is providing a skewered picture. There's always ambiguity in advice threads.

 

[Red myst]

You are presented with a hypothetical scenario and asked to find a solution to a problem.

Then you start asking about the specifics and trying to understand why this problem needs solving at all? And for what sake should you be given this information? You presumably are here to try to help solve it, aren't you?

Why not treat this thread as a problem-solving challenge and try to come up with something?

My perspective is stated in post 37. The problem seems to be self inflicted, so the solution has to come from within the OP. I have have been somewhat critical, but have offered my perspective of how I deal with remorse. I don't think it is a problem to be solved with with a Ti answer, but from introspection and reflection of the OP with the aim of looking at the current situation through different lenses or prospectives. Maybe mine will help.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

If the problem is really serious, wouldn't generalized hypotheticals be ultimately unhelpful? We'd need the specifics, which OP is not comfortable with sharing and that's totally okay, but then a professional therapist should probably be sought out.

Post #10 from Absurdity is perhaps the most succinct.

 

[Grayman]

This is what I'm trying to get at. I don't see the need to question the situation because there aren't any signs that point towards the OP being misleading. You have to give benefit of the doubt for there to be any point to threads like these.

I don't think the unspecified nature of the deed is reason enough to assume the OP is providing a skewered picture. There's always ambiguity in advice threads.

The benefit of doubt has to go both ways.

The OP has failed to answer questions so far. He/She seems to be looking more for validation than help. The OP comes here for validation instead of people who know the situation or the individuals, why?

We cannot be certain that the guy is or not avoiding the situation as we don't know the story and I would rather give more benefit of the doubt to the guy who is not here to defend himself than the individual who is here looking for something but is not very forthcoming with information.

 

[Cherry Cola]

But there is always doubt and you can never trust someone you don't know and haven't met to be telling the truth about a scenario involving strangers, this is always the case with advice threads. The base approach is always one of trust. Only if the OP shows signs of not being trustable does the benefit of the doubt run both ways.

The only sign that the OP isn't being truthful is that she hasn't specifically said what has happened. But that's only a potential sign, the OP could've left the specifics out for a number of reasons, so I find myself unable to understand why you you're saying she's just looking for validation. You're reading something between the lines which I can't see :O

@OP: When he's telling you to just think positively he's invalidating your emotional response to the situation since you can't just feel okay by telling yourself things are okay when they are terrible.
It's like telling a man with no legs to stand up.

 

[Grayman]

But there is always doubt and you can never trust someone you don't know and haven't met to be telling the truth about a scenario involving strangers, this is always the case with advice threads. The base approach is always one of trust. Only if the OP shows signs of not being trustable does the benefit of the doubt run both ways.

The only sign that the OP isn't being truthful is that she hasn't specifically said what has happened. But that's only a potential sign, the OP could've left the specifics out for a number of reasons, so I find myself unable to understand why you you're saying she's just looking for validation. You're reading something between the lines which I can't see :O

In a round about way I am trying to ask the OP. Did he try to help the situation, actually talk about it even if it did not satisfy you. In effect has he always and continually blown you off or is what he is doing just not satisfactory to what you feel you need from him?

He is showing remorse if he talks to you a 1,000 times before he finally says "I cannot dwell on this". vs twice. If the victim never gets past it, does it mean that the perp should never have a chance to heal and be a better person? I don't feel as if I am getting enough information from the OP to determine any of this and it isn't information that should be difficult to give but then I may just not be asking the right questions...

@OP: When he's telling you to just think positively he's invalidating your emotional response to the situation since you can't just feel okay by telling yourself things are okay when they are terrible.
It's like telling a man with no legs to stand up.

It is more like a man with mangled legs. He is telling the man with mangled legs to stand up and does not hand him the crutches or lend him a shoulder.
The OP can be positive eventually if she is given the tools. Did the perp try to give the OP tools before he finally just said to be positive or just tell the OP to stand up without any real regard or concern to how the OP should accomplish this task?

We should not validate the emotional response of the guy with bad/no legs that he should just give up hope. You don't need legs to love, have kids, go to college, or create music. So be positive and get up and move on. Eventually, if the person is unable to move past their perdicement you have to either push them foward harshly and move on yourself.

 

[Cherry Cola]

The way I read it I take it the OP is still in the stage wherein she needs to understand and sort out what's happened, to process it fully and untie potential knots so as to be able to eventually try and get past it. One of these knots being the perpetrators unwillingness to see the situation for what it is. I know if someone hurt me gravely and I got the sense from their responses that said someone didn't understand the level of hurt and didn't want to then that would really bother me and could probably delay my moving on. Actually that has happened lol.

 

[Grayman]

The way I read it I take it the OP is still in the stage wherein she needs to understand and sort out what's happened, to process it fully and untie potential knots so as to be able to eventually try and get past it. One of these knots being the perpetrators unwillingness to see the situation for what it is. I know if someone hurt me gravely and I got the sense from their responses that said someone didn't understand the level of hurt and didn't want to then that would really bother me and could probably delay my moving on. Actually that has happened lol.

I guess it's not something I relate to very well. It seems unhealthy to make ones emotional well being and strength of will so dependent on anothers point of view. In effect the victim allows themselves to be continually ruined by this and yet it serves them no purpose.

 

[Tutu]

Sorry to hear that you feel hurt.Ive been there and it takes a while for me to get to the stage where I can accept both rationally and emotionally that in a sense it has nothing to do with the other but my own expectation.But that doesn't mean the others wrong deeds can be justified.I guess the way he handled it make it seems like he's not part of it and spared himself of the responsibility without understanding how much you cared(cause you the hurt)and reciprocating it.Is that what's going on?