how to be sure you are intp? bias issues

[somfoolishfoole]

So from the moment I read the INTP description, I had no doubt that I was intp. It just explained so well why I've always felt like the only one in the room actually thinking and analysing my surrounding and etc etc..

ignore most of next paragraph perhaps, just a rundown of me personality typing my teacher.

Then yesterday I was sitting in class and I typed my teacher. To my perspective, he was the easiest person I've typed in a while. it was immediatly apparent that he was ne fi te si. it just made sence. he was loud in a creative way, and could easily be misinterpretted as a "fabulous" gay guy (nothing against fabulous gays, they are wonderful). so that struck me as Ne. his marking method is very selfish and shortsighted. he will happily dock you 20% of your marks in a test for pedantic subjective things where you didn't interpret something the way he invisioned it, even if your point of view is perfectly defendable. this, among other traits struck me a Fi. from there he is relatively organised (but not incredibly so) Te. and his appearance is changing but always professional and immaculate (my interpretation of a guy concious of myers brigs who has worked on his Si but has a primary Ne).

so.. the crux. I went to him and talked to him about myers briggs and mentioned that I had typed him as ENFP and he responded that he was an INTP.

there is no way in hell he is INTP. It strikes me that he just has Fi (2nd preference) bias to wanting to be smart and thinking like an intp. Now he has my Ne (unless...) all worked up trying to gather additional possibilities and combat bias (i know im prone to bias) and to make sure I have not chosen INTP for biased reasons.

if I was to speculate discrepencies...... ummm.. Ti? I sometimes can't be f**ked with seeking all the details of something, I merely skim the cream off the top of orgasmic scientific reads. that strikes me as perhaps counter to Ti.

Ne? hmmm... no... I'm pretty damned open minded. I can litterally change fundamental behaviours overnight if someone illuminates to me that they are unfavorable traits. I don't think you can get more open minded than me without just giving in to uncertainty and falling for crap like astrology. all my certaintys are well concidered and reasonable doubt has been reduced to a frightened little *insert non-masculine noun* consisting of .001% chance.

Si? my appearance is shockingly unkempt most of the time with exception for when i decide to give a shit and clean up well (this happens probably once a fortnight or so).

Si? routine in my life is non existant unless conciously applied.

Fe? I care deeply for the wellbeing of society as a whole and the suffering of humans on a grand scale. I think its pretty fucked up that millions are enslaved and millions starve to death and all that. but on a smaller, person to person scale, I don't give two shits for peoples struggles, even those closest to me like my girlfriend. if she is crying, I just want her to stop so my obligation to stop her from crying is nullified. I care more about the macro-caring scale than 90% of people. and care less about the micro-caring scale than 99% of people.

your opinions? am I INTP? decisive ways to test myself? ways to make my Ne STFU and accept that Ti knows that I'm intp?

ohhh ahaah.. that last one was a funny. come on... you must be able to relate to that last statement all you INTP's. I laugh now

 

[Steven Gerrard]

I just lol at the fact that he wants to be INTP.

The classic protagonist, it almost seems to me. The classic protagonist is at least always an introvert. And usually a disaffected thinker frustrated with the monotony of life and how stupid everyone is. And then something happens and he realizes he is special, and goes on an adventure and realizes he is much more competent than he thought and builds a healthier, more grounded in reality self esteem. Could the classic protagonist be an INTP? Sherlock Holmes offends many in the recent tv/movie fictions and all the other types of people he offends laugh along and relate to him whilst in real life they would be offended and threatened by his behaviour.


This may be the classic protagonist of the books I have read, and may not be the overall classic protagonist. Or it could just be me projecting what parts I identified with protagonists.

The real question is am I an INTP? (This is supposed to be funny)

 

[Turniphead]

The real question is am I an INTP? (This is supposed to be funny)

No no, pick me, pick me. Am I an INTP?


I've thought about this a bit lately. Typing others, and then typing others based off of the first people you typed. If you typed the first people wrong then the second group is going to be wrong also.

Sort of like a chain leading back to yourself. If you get yourself wrong then is the basis for how you see/type everyone else fundamentally flawed/inaccurate?

(Half asleep)

 

[Anktark]

I don't think an INTP can ever be absolutely sure about anything. However, there comes a time of acceptance that none of the other types fit as well. I could still consider the possibility of being some other type, however, there are just to many connections with the definition of INTP- it has rooted in my internal model of the universe too easily and too hard.
The last nail of assurance was the description at http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html . I would have a hard time coming closer to a description of myself. It just so happens to also describe INTP.
Here is a quote from it: "[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica]INTPs may be interested in the Folk musics of eastern Europe". Here is an example just in case:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv1lArNqLpA
The relevant parts: 00:00 till 01:31, from 9:19 and from 12:40 to 13:15

None of my peers/relatives ever understood my fascination with it. Though some of them learned not to bother with me if/when I listen to one.

Then there are thoughts I believe no other types would be entertained by: last month or so I got a jolt of profound happiness after I figured out the difference between flying(flight) and swimming or a jump. The definition given by most dictionaries felt too vague and lacking. I did not write it down, did not tell anyone, because it's for me to remember and use. I believe other types would consider such endeavors pointless, impractical and boring, but I am happy, because now I understand. Seems like knowing the difference, nuances between synonyms, essence of things is important to INTPs.

That said, if you are left with several possible types, learn the differences between them, understand how they tick. ISTPs might seem very similar to INTPs from the outside at first sight, but inside they ought to be quite different.
In the end, it should be up to the person to figure out which type he is. I don't think an INTP could readily except their verdict without trying to understand the reasoning behind it.

No need to force your Ne to shut up (I did laugh). Your TiSi will gradually suppress it for you. It might still squeal from time to time, but will be quickly soothed by Ti. That is, if you are INTP.

It seems to me that you should look deeper into cognitive functions. For example, Ti is not something to gather or express information with from/to the outside directly. At least, that's how I understand it.
Another thing, that teacher you mentioned might be an INTP for all we know so far. Don't forget that people have all the functions present, they are just more dominant than others in different types. It doesn't help that with superficial observation we mostly see the results- not the path the person took to get there and not all people of the same type are identical.
On the other hand, the shortsightedness and close mindedness seem as very adverse and unusual for INTP. Thou he might be unhappy with his job and is doing the minimum amount of work required. I do that with manual tasks that bore me to no end. Oh, at least you didn't insult him by calling him an ESFP/J
[/FONT]

 

[Cognisant]

The single absolute sure way to know you're an INTP.

You're here, posting on this forum, when you should be doing something else

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Only tru INTP's know that they are INTPz for realz, others are fakers

if you want to know your type you should know what behaviours and traits can be associated with it, then it is a matter of statistics,

simple example if you are a maths tutor there is a good chance you use your Te, etc.
so there are things that can be connected with a given cognitive function and then you can over the week see whether you are Ne or Ti reliant in most of things, or maybe you are Se and Te.

your type is your internal judgement/analysis, why would you rely on the external judgement/information of others in this case, where you feed us your information?

In other words, one of us can make a good case to make you convinced or to increase your doubts, but the choice and all the pieces of the puzzle are yours

 

[scorpiomover]

So from the moment I read the INTP description, I had no doubt that I was intp.

One of the things that happened often here, was how much INTPs would talk about their P-ness. INTPs seem to be the most indecisive of the types, even to the point of not being sure if they exist. The expression "no doubt" is not part of an INTP's vocabulary. If it is ever used, it means they've almost certainly retreated into tertiary Si, and are not thinking clearly.

It just explained so well why I've always felt like the only one in the room actually thinking and analysing my surrounding and etc etc..

Most introverts feel this way all of the time.

Then yesterday I was sitting in class and I typed my teacher. To my perspective, he was the easiest person I've typed in a while. it was immediatly apparent that he was ne fi te si. it just made sence.

Ti is incredibly slow, and covers every angle. Combined with Ne, it works to develop a complete ToE (Theory of Everything). By the time an INTP can type someone quickly, he can pretty much type most people very quickly. But it can take months/years for an INTP to develop such a theory, and sometimes, never.

he was loud in a creative way, and could easily be misinterpretted as a "fabulous" gay guy (nothing against fabulous gays, they are wonderful). so that struck me as Ne.

Sounds very unconventional. iNtuitive.

his marking method is very selfish and shortsighted.

Introverts usually come across as egotistical.

he will happily dock you 20% of your marks in a test for pedantic subjective things where you didn't interpret something the way he invisioned it, even if your point of view is perfectly defendable.

Pedantry is the hall-mark of a T.

Sounds like this, among other traits struck me a Fi. from there he is relatively organised (but not incredibly so) Te. and his appearance is changing but always professional and immaculate

The consistent professional and immaculate appearance is very unlike an INTP. We can scrub up well. But it's just not important to us every day, and he only needs to be clean and presentable at work. "Immaculate" is overkill, for appearances' sake. I'm guessing that his reputation matters to him, and he sees his appearance is a part of that. Fi

An I, N, T, with Fi. Hmmm. INTJ fits the bill perfectly. They're also N-doms, which matches your idea about him being "loud in a creative way", and they have Fi, as you suggested.

Have you considered that he might be an INTJ?

(my interpretation of a guy concious of myers brigs who has worked on his Si but has a primary Ne).

The inferior is the last function to develop. Those who have, are balanced in all ways, and come across like some kind of beloved/annoyingly-indefeatable Übermensch. You could love him, or you could hate him. You might even tell others that you think he's an idiot. But someone will say "No. He's on the money."

so.. the crux. I went to him and talked to him about myers briggs and mentioned that I had typed him as ENFP and he responded that he was an INTP.

INTJs who lack confidence in themselves, due to setbacks, often type as INTPs on online tests.

P-ness is often associated with lack of confidence, when really, it's about a personal preference for keeping oneself open to change and adapt to new situations. The perception of many people, is that no-one would choose to remain in indecision except because they lack the confidence to believe in themselves.

there is no way in hell he is INTP. It strikes me that he just has Fi (2nd preference) bias to wanting to be smart and thinking like an intp.

He's your teacher, which means the world has decided that at the moment, he knows a lot more than you do, and given a choice between your 2 opinions, he's more likely to be right than you are. If anyone wants the world to think he is smart, you have more need and more motive than he does.

Now he has my Ne (unless...) all worked up trying to gather additional possibilities and combat bias (i know im prone to bias) and to make sure I have not chosen INTP for biased reasons.

Now, THAT sounds like P-ness, being willing to adapt.

if I was to speculate discrepencies...... ummm.. Ti? I sometimes can't be f**ked with seeking all the details of something, I merely skim the cream off the top of orgasmic scientific reads. that strikes me as perhaps counter to Ti.

Can't draw much from that. Everyone wants to skim sometimes. Calling science "orgasmic" is something that NTs often do. But

Ne? hmmm... no... I'm pretty damned open minded. I can litterally change fundamental behaviours overnight if someone illuminates to me that they are unfavorable traits. I don't think you can get more open minded than me without just giving in to uncertainty and falling for crap like astrology. all my certaintys are well concidered and reasonable doubt has been reduced to a frightened little *insert non-masculine noun* consisting of .001% chance.

Saying "I can change if someone proves to me that I should" is implying that every Sensor thinks they should not have to change, even when they have absolute proof that they should. Not what being a Sensor means.

Si? my appearance is shockingly unkempt most of the time with exception for when i decide to give a shit and clean up well (this happens probably once a fortnight or so).

Not too much Fi then.

Si? routine in my life is non existant unless conciously applied.

Some INTJs say they are often late, unless it matters to them.

Fe? I care deeply for the wellbeing of society as a whole and the suffering of humans on a grand scale. I think its pretty fucked up that millions are enslaved and millions starve to death and all that. but on a smaller, person to person scale, I don't give two shits for peoples struggles, even those closest to me like my girlfriend. if she is crying, I just want her to stop so my obligation to stop her from crying is nullified. I care more about the macro-caring scale than 90% of people. and care less about the micro-caring scale than 99% of people.

A lot of INTJs, who have Fi but not Fe, feel that way.

your opinions? am I INTP? decisive ways to test myself? ways to make my Ne STFU and accept that Ti knows that I'm intp?

In an INTP, Ti almost always overrules Ne. If you're an INTP who doubts your type, it's Ti that has the doubt.

Personally, I'm torn. I'd say that you could be an overly-quick-to-decide INTP, or an INTJ, or an ENTP. I was leaning towards INTJ. But it might be a bit odd that you and your teacher both are INTJs. Mind you, INTJs have no compunctions at arguing with each other. You could differ in your Enneagram.

Of course, I could be wrong about your teacher as well.

I think you'd need to add some details about yourself, maybe some funny stories.

 

[QuickTwist]

Here's a crazy thought. Try my method.

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=19033

I suppose if you can figure out how to type yourself using my method there is a good chance you are an INTP. Oh and the results matter too so add that into your calculations.

 

[somfoolishfoole]

@sephen gerard
I didnt understand much of your post. who wants to be an intp? me or the teacher?

@turniphead
haha I was thinking about that exact idea the other day. i was like ohh might have mum wrong, that means girlfriend is wrong, that means etc etc im wrong!!

@anktark
nothing much to say here.. umm I followed the link to the folk music, I did like it actually, but I did NOT understand what you had sent me to.

@cognisant
guilty hahaha. there is study to be done. I had today completely free for study. what did i do? converted a hindi person to agnostic, struck up a conversation with a newly discovered intj on facebook (yay). hes really smart and i relate alot to him. and then I went to the gym, then came home and jumped on intpforum. no study done yet.

@blaruan
I dissagreed with most of your post. But can't be bothered going into it. no.. I should... I hate when people don't grant my posts audience/responce. ummm
"only tru intps know..." disagree. true intp would secondguess it from time to time IMO.

yes others can give me pieces. pieces that I may be missing. this forum may not be all intps, but it's likely that most of them are nt's. nt's are clever and can give me the intellectual smackdown required for me to grasp sight of new fronteirs of thought.

@scorpiomover
good read. you were right to be confused between entp/intp. I'm on the fence. I can extravert quite easily. when I took the myers briggs test i came back as 11% I first attempt. 11% E 2nd attempt. the rest was like 85% N 70% t 60% p. I find that by nature I'm Intp. when i was young i was extremely introverted, but i didnt like being incapable of talking to people so for years i pushed my comfort barrier and pushed and pushed and pushed and got drunk and pushed and got drunk and pushed ^^. eventually after about 4 years it worked and I found it easier to talk to people. now I find I could probably relate to being entp but INTP is a more natural match feeling to it. im not too sure about intj. Ni i understand least of all 8 functions. and Te is just not me. I couldn't organise a plan to save my life.. well... I could make a plan and have all the good intention in the world to follow it. come the next day I wake up and plan doesn't get used. it just gets walked all over with whimsical daily operation.

overly quick to decide intp sounds like me. I do feel like I'm an intp with a bit of a twist of self confidence and comfort in my own skin.... I am very comfortable in my own skin, can easily take laughter unto myself, I am the fool at a party encouraging people to do drunken forwards flips into the bush and pour spirits into their eyes (always leading by example of course). I am 100% comfortable nude amongst people i know. there is no such thing as embarressment with nudity amongst a girlfriend. a common joke for me would be like if someone pulled my pants down at a party for a joke, rather than get embarressed and pull them back up, I would probably pull them further down and show my bare ass to them. most of this happens when I'm quite drunk though. I love stupid fun when im drunk.
ok a story of me... my life story has been people telling me to shutup coz noone cares about the boring science that i want to talk about... I've never really had a vent for my interests, I sence that this has hindered some personal development. ummm... I'm done. this reply has been long as hell.

@quicktwist
too much time/effort involved to resolve my 5% uncertainty that im not intp

 

[Polaris]

my life story has been people telling me to shutup coz noone cares about the boring science that i want to talk about... I've never really had a vent for my interests, I sence that this has hindered some personal development. ummm... I'm done. this reply has been long as hell.

Hm, this sounds awfully familiar....you do seem to talk about yourself a lot too. I tend to have this self-focus as per default, and have had to learn to pay more attention to other people during conversation. Only when scientific/interesting/analytical topics come up, do I sit up and pay attention.

Generic people interaction bores me to the point where I have severe concentration problems. I always find myself drifting out of reality and watching myself as if I'm in a movie. People talk to me and I have to sort of metaphorically punch myself hard in the head in order to muster up a reply. By the time it is expressed, it is often so forced and awkward that people just back off and leave me to it, to my great relief.

I don't know if it is poor form to ask you this (although you seem to be quite detached), but have you considered Aspergers/ADHD? I'm looking into it for my own, er...sanity.

Edit: To tie back in with the thread topic, INTP-types and Aspergers syndrome people seem to resemble each other somewhat.

 

[somfoolishfoole]

Hm, this sounds awfully familiar....you do seem to talk about yourself a lot too. I tend to have this self-focus as per default, and have had to learn to pay more attention to other people during conversation. Only when scientific/interesting/analytical topics come up, do I sit up and pay attention.

Generic people interaction bores me to the point where I have severe concentration problems. I always find myself drifting out of reality and watching myself as if I'm in a movie. People talk to me and I have to sort of metaphorically punch myself hard in the head in order to muster up a reply. By the time it is expressed, it is often so forced and awkward that people just back off and leave me to it, to my great relief.

I don't know if it is poor form to ask you this (although you seem to be quite detached), but have you considered Aspergers/ADHD? I'm looking into it for my own, er...sanity.

Edit: To tie back in with the thread topic, INTP-types and Aspergers syndrome people seem to resemble each other somewhat.

I've been tested. I have developmental dyspraxia and traits of asbergers syndrome, but not enough to charactorise asbergers.

edit: I think you would like me in real life. someone you could engage with.

 

[QuickTwist]

Evidence suggests ISTP.

 

[Base groove]

I was leaning toward INTJ.

 

[QuickTwist]

That is possible; he seems really results oriented.

 

[Anktark]

@anktark
nothing much to say here.. umm I followed the link to the folk music, I did like it actually, but I did NOT understand what you had sent me to.

The INTP description at http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html has a reference to it. I thought it would clarify what was meant by "Eastern European folk music" in the article. I found it rather hard to find using just basic keywords.
Gah, I need to work on my Te or stop expressing ideas altogether. It's peculiar how much I value eloquence, but am only borderline coherent.

 

[Valentas]

I stopped caring whether I am one of the three: INTJ, ISTP or INTP for some time already. I read a myriad of descriptions and each of them seem to have something spot on about me. However, the most qualities described seem to be from INTP realm and also my body type(I am not big, just a typical nerd, ISTPs tend to be a lot bigger) seems to rule out ISTP. Also I don't like physical activities which probably is very non-S. Also, I am terrible at proceeding with plans and I always leave work I don't like for the last minute. Probably little J in me too. This is why I hang out here on INTPForum. However, I don't have many qualities of INTP too and thus due to this confusion, I stopped bothering to find correct type for me. I am more interested in enjoying life and just showing who I am to potential mate or friends and if they accept me - fine, if not - I don't cry over that. Recently I became very concened about other people because the world is in turmoil and investigation with question "why?" lead me to be very nervous about direction of the world and society that I deem to be deceived and living in a matrix. I see that every day while hanging out with friends or just listening to people talks. Pretty clueless. I now sound F-like for caring about humanity but I stopped caring and life became easier. Analyze yourself, be yourself and stop putting labels on yourself. I am tired of generalization of people, I am invidual and thus have unique qualities that won't fit in anywhere into personality descriptions. Also, when you read about variety of topics on, say, INTP, there is always a conflicting view between people and then you have to choose one or the other. I hate that thus stopped bothering. I'd better just talk with people and try to improve my social skills instead putting a label on myself 'Loner and very introverted nerd'.

 

[JimJambones]

It is possible, as an intp, to be associating with another INTP and not realize it. Keep in mind that an INTP, or any of the other types are big tent categories that everyone falls under. As an undergraduate in college I was most likely in biochemistry class with other NTs, many of us were the same type. We each come from different environments and social classes that define who we are as individuals and not as a type. An intp is a name for a group of individuals that share some common triats. There isn't any such thing as an intp in reality. An intp doesn't exist as any particular person. Perhaps your teacher is wrong about their type. So what, that's for him to decide. There are intps that are philosophers, english teachers, artists, scientists, and they all have a few things in common. They will value truth, reason, and a love of learning above most other pursuits. Some are even a bit dreamier than others, giving a similar appearance to idealists. I was almost certain that a coworker was an INFP because she talked much about certain things being right or wrong, was a writer, an artist, and was always caught daydreaming, but over the years(key word is years), I found her to be more of a thinker than a feeler. She is also an intp that has a strong moral code, but it is clear to me that she is a seeker of truth above all else. So when typing another person as an intp, I have to ask myself: Are they a scatterbrained introvert that values logic, truth, and justice above all else? Try breaking an intp into a few core traits and you will find that more people than you think can fit within the type.

Also, when INTPs extrovert(Ne) they can appear bubbly and kind of gay even if they're not.

 

[QuickTwist]

^^ Excellent post.

 

[JimJambones]

I'm also skeptical of INTPs labelling other INTPs as ISTPs. It is highly unlikely that an ISTP is going to show any significant interest in typology in general. Maybe briefly. The ISTPs I know, and they are numerous in my family, would rather use a typology book to either wipe their ass with it or to start a fire with. Many of the ISTPs I've seen online are most likely INTPs that have been excluded from the INTP community. If you think you are an INTP and mention that you like to ride motorcycles or exercise or mountain climb or whatever, be prepared to take some heat for it. I would like to ride a motorcycle, but I'm afraid of not paying attention while driving and seriously hurting myself. The other day I was driving home and started thinking about a problem and didn't remember driving most of the way back home. INTPs don't usually see what's going on around them, but they can if they force their attention on their environment. They also lose shit a lot and don't hear when people are talking to them, and are constantly lost in thought. One thing is for sure, there are genious INTPs that will can accomplish much in life, and then there are the rest of us.

 

[QuickTwist]

If you had to give it a percentage, what percent of the population would you say are INTP? I am interested in how you respond to this JJ.

 

[JimJambones]

I would say less than 5 out of every 100 people, the genious INTP being 1 for greater than 100 people. That is my own guess though. I like to think back to high school for reference. I graduated with nearly 200 students, so there were probably as many as 10 INTPs, which seems plausible. Out of those, some were stereotypical INTPs, while others not so much.

 

[QuickTwist]

*nods* Your logic is sound and makes sense.

 

[somfoolishfoole]

I'm also skeptical of INTPs labelling other INTPs as ISTPs. It is highly unlikely that an ISTP is going to show any significant interest in typology in general. Maybe briefly. The ISTPs I know, and they are numerous in my family, would rather use a typology book to either wipe their ass with it or to start a fire with. Many of the ISTPs I've seen online are most likely INTPs that have been excluded from the INTP community. If you think you are an INTP and mention that you like to ride motorcycles or exercise or mountain climb or whatever, be prepared to take some heat for it. I would like to ride a motorcycle, but I'm afraid of not paying attention while driving and seriously hurting myself. The other day I was driving home and started thinking about a problem and didn't remember driving most of the way back home. INTPs don't usually see what's going on around them, but they can if they force their attention on their environment. They also lose shit a lot and don't hear when people are talking to them, and are constantly lost in thought. One thing is for sure, there are genious INTPs that will can accomplish much in life, and then there are the rest of us.

I lose Soooooooooooooo much stuff. Its not even fair. I can litterally lose like 4 water bottles in a week when each and every one was purchased with the intent of keeping for daily use. There is only two things i never lose. Cellphone coz its always in right pocket. Wallet because its always in left pocket.

Also, not paying attention when im driving... God you have no idea. No1 but me is allowed to complain about this. If i get in the car and i have 3 destinations to go to, i will 80% of the time, go to the first place, then return home before i know what ive done. Or in another situation, if i get in the car to go to perhaps a friends place or a store. There is a 90% chance i will start auto-driving to a more commonly visited destination. There was no exageration in this post. None of you are ever allowed to complain about these two things with me present

 

[Turniphead]

I almost never loose things...

The price is anxiety.

I have systems in place so when I leave somewhere I always check the spots the things are supposed to go. Water bottles always go in the same spot in my bag. I almost always have the same items in my pockets. I always double or triple check that doors are locked and things are turned off.

I've been taking Vitamin D pills(to help fend of S.A.D., it's winter here), and I often can't remember if I took one already today, so I turn the bottle after I take one to indicate that I have taken one. This sometimes works, as long as I can vaguely remember what position it was in before.

 

[Microtonalist]

Without having met your professor, I'd still say that it's entirely possible that he is an INTP after all. Many people in the teaching professions develop a teaching persona which is totally different from their private persona, and usually much more extraverted. This was driven home it me at a young age when I saw the way my father (a teacher) interacted with his students. I'd type my dad as an INF something or other, probably INFJ. Put him in a classroom, and suddenly he's an E. Take him out, and he reverts to his normal personality, more familiar to his family and friends. It's all a performance.
As I got older and got to know some of my professors outside of class, I came to realize that this is a pretty common phenomenon. Think of how blatantly introverted professors are often perceived: dry, boring, aloof. No one wants to be thought of that way, and most professors realize that their students are more likely to actually pay attention to them if they seem more extraverted, even if that's not their natural inclination.

Then there's the issue (that I think someone above mentioned) that many INTPs get very excited if they get to talk about things that interest them. I can turn into the life of the party if I get to talk about my interests. Your professor might just be excited because he gets paid to lecture about his favorite topic.

 

[scorpiomover]

good read. you were right to be confused between entp/intp. I'm on the fence. I can extravert quite easily. when I took the myers briggs test i came back as 11% I first attempt. 11% E 2nd attempt. the rest was like 85% N 70% t 60% p. I find that by nature I'm Intp. when i was young i was extremely introverted, but i didnt like being incapable of talking to people so for years i pushed my comfort barrier and pushed and pushed and pushed and got drunk and pushed and got drunk and pushed ^^. eventually after about 4 years it worked and I found it easier to talk to people. now I find I could probably relate to being entp but INTP is a more natural match feeling to it. im not too sure about intj. Ni i understand least of all 8 functions. and Te is just not me. I couldn't organise a plan to save my life.. well... I could make a plan and have all the good intention in the world to follow it. come the next day I wake up and plan doesn't get used. it just gets walked all over with whimsical daily operation.

Interesting. Jung wrote about the type being there from birth, almost as if it was genetic. But he also said in his interview with Freeman, that "the type changes throughout life". What if both are true? We have a genetic type in our DNA, that is with us always, and cannot be changed. But we also have the ability to transform our type. You, it seems, have both.

I am 100% comfortable nude amongst people i know. there is no such thing as embarressment with nudity amongst a girlfriend.

I used to walk around nude in my apartment. Felt normal to me. I only stopped, when it became clear that people saw me through the window, and others were having a huge problem with it.

ok a story of me... my life story has been people telling me to shutup coz noone cares about the boring science that i want to talk about...

Interesting. I've had a similar problem, in that I often come up with unconventional alternatives to existing ideas and inventions. The responses range from "it can't be done", to "someone else probably already did it, and you're wasting your time", to "what are you trying to do, win the Nobel Prize for Economics?" to "why don't you go off and make it then, and leave me alone". I've always been an oddball. I thought by coming here, I'd find like-minded people. But even here, I feel like an oddball.

 

[somfoolishfoole]

Interesting. Jung wrote about the type being there from birth, almost as if it was genetic. But he also said in his interview with Freeman, that "the type changes throughout life". What if both are true? We have a genetic type in our DNA, that is with us always, and cannot be changed. But we also have the ability to transform our type. You, it seems, have both.

I used to walk around nude in my apartment. Felt normal to me. I only stopped, when it became clear that people saw me through the window, and others were having a huge problem with it.

Interesting. I've had a similar problem, in that I often come up with unconventional alternatives to existing ideas and inventions. The responses range from "it can't be done", to "someone else probably already did it, and you're wasting your time", to "what are you trying to do, win the Nobel Prize for Economics?" to "why don't you go off and make it then, and leave me alone". I've always been an oddball. I thought by coming here, I'd find like-minded people. But even here, I feel like an oddball.

I could definatly say I went from like 90% introverted and pushed it down to like 20% introverted. I used to be crazy introverted, I didn't even talk to a girl untill I was about 16.

"why don't you go off and make it then and leave me alone?"
Lol because it is an intp, not an entj. It doesn't want to make it (couldnt do it if it tried). Just wants to know that it's possible.

I definatly agree that even amongst INTP's there is large differences in personality.

I put it down to A: mistyping in a few cases. I don't think every INTP on here is really an INTP, although I'm not saying this is a majority. I think only a few are mistyped.

B: different ages/which age in life they discovered myers briggs, therefore how much work has been done on their functions.

C:gender

D: intp's plain and simple just differ. I have an INTP friend and him and I are so similar but so different. He has way more feels than me. I am way more certain of my opinions, if I they have been well thought through. For example, he is not even an atheist, he is agnostic. I incorrectly assumed it was common sence for an intp to be gnostic atheist. (gnostic = 100% sure). Actually, as a point of intrigue, I find it interesting that I have lately upgraded from 99.999% sure god doesn't exist, to 100% sure. To me that is a huge difference, I am actually claiming to KNOW for CERTAIN he doesn't exist, to me thats a big deal.

I lost my direction in this post. End.

Oh, I do think there are a few intps around here who think similarly. I think hawkeye has a similar mindset to me. I admire the wisdom in the opinions of elusive peanut (from what little I have seen from him). I think he uses logic and insight similar to mine, but where I do it on an introspective level, he is able to interspect it, which makes him an avid judge/mentor/counceller to people. though my judgements of him are based on very little

 

[Spocksleftball]

"I don't think an INTP can ever be absolutely sure about anything."

If you are still stuck contemplating your INTPness in a subroutine after days, weeks, or years, then the answer is yes you are an INTP. No other type would bother.

 

[Jennywocky]

"I don't think an INTP can ever be absolutely sure about anything."

If you are still stuck contemplating your INTPness in a subroutine after days, weeks, or years, then the answer is yes you are an INTP. No other type would bother.

INFPs actually seem to question their own type more than INTPs do.

Their questioning, I've observed, can go on for years and years. You think they're settled... then suddenly a year later: "OMG I DNT KNOW WHUT MAI TYPE IS OMFG HELP ME PLS!" [followed by pictures of bunnies farting Skittles]

 

[Spocksleftball]

INFPs actually seem to question their own type more than INTPs do.

Their questioning, I've observed, can go on for years and years. You think they're settled... then suddenly a year later: "OMG I DNT KNOW WHUT MAI TYPE IS OMFG HELP ME PLS!" [followed by pictures of bunnies farting Skittles]

In my experience, they tend to question their own validity, not if they test got their type wrong. I dated an INFP for years and in the end she was just too unsure of a) why everyone didn't worship her, and b) if she was certain she could continue, given the current state of the world. I found her cyclical and predicable. Besides hiding behind everyone else made the worship desire self-defeating.

 

[Jennywocky]

In my experience, they tend to question their own validity, not if they test got their type wrong. I dated an INFP for years and in the end she was just too unsure of a) why everyone didn't worship her, and b) if she was certain she could continue, given the current state of the world. I found her cyclical and predicable. Besides hiding behind everyone else made the worship desire self-defeating.

Well, that's nice; but I'm on a few different type sites, which is where I'm drawing my info from, and there seems to be a high proportion of INFPs who act exactly how I said. It's a cliche at this point.

Age and newness to MBTI also has something to do with it, I am sure.

 

[Spocksleftball]

Well, that's nice; but I'm on a few different type sites, which is where I'm drawing my info from, and there seems to be a high proportion of INFPs who act exactly how I said. It's a cliche at this point.

I withdraw my comment then. How can my personal experience compete with the knowledge of the Internet collective.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I always thought you seemed like an INTJ, they can be quite dissociative as well, extraverted sensing being their inferior they aren't only opt to not notice what's going on around them they need to ignore it a little now and then to avoid becoming neurotic.

But the way you describe yourself does sound more like an xNTP, you're too comfortably detached in your judgements to be an INTJ. If it wasn't for the fact that you seem relatively uninhibited I'd say INTP for sure. Have you ever thought about whether you have adhd or add? Since I already claimed you were a narcissist I understand if you are sceptical.

It's just that the inattentiveness, lack of inhibitions, impulsiveness, and the way you seem to always be on the go even if you don't know quite where you're going kinda fit the bill for ADHD which would explain why you have those traits despite being an INTP.

I don't consider ADHD or ADD mental disorders, they just cause trouble because nowadays we live in super structured societies where everything has to be done in a certain way. I have ADD myself and I do the shit you listed too (lose things, forget appointments, take the wrong train/bus, fail to get off the train/bus at the right station), except with my wallet, cell, and keys because I always keep them in my pockets or in a specific part of my bag.

Do you switch subjects a lot when you're thinking about something? Like... is a typical train of thought for you somewhat stringent or all over the place to the point that it doesn't take long before you have no idea what it was specifically that started your train of thought?

 

[Jennywocky]

I withdraw my comment then. How can my personal experience compete with the knowledge of the Internet collective.

I know, I know -- that one experience with your ex-girlfriend who knows her type of course should trump the bulk expression of mass confusion by many INFPs on generic MBTI sites. It's terrifying, why doesn't the world make any sense??

... I'm still wondering where Spock's right ball went.

 

[Spocksleftball]

I know, I know -- that one experience with your ex-girlfriend who knows her type of course should trump the bulk expression of mass confusion by many INFPs on generic MBTI sites. It's terrifying, why doesn't the world make any sense??

... I'm still wondering where Spock's right ball went.

Yes, how could anyone have enough intellect to phathom something based upon an actual experience when the internet is chaulked full of experts, lawyers, and physicians. Lord knows, people who troll all day on forums are certainly respected members of the internet community, and any referenceless statements are fully backed and thus endorsed by the collective as a whole--regardless of actual exposure to any of their own theories in practise.

 

[Jennywocky]

Yes, how could anyone have enough intellect to phathom something based upon an actual experience when the internet is chaulked full of experts, lawyers, and physicians. Lord knows, people who troll all day on forums are certainly respected members of the internet community, and any referenceless statements are fully backed and thus endorsed by the collective as a whole--regardless of actual exposure to any of their own theories in practise.

Please, continue.

It sounds like you've only managed to scratch the surface of this provocative area of study and still have a deep repository of insight that you would like to contribute.

 

[Cherry Cola]

In my experience, they tend to question their own validity, not if they test got their type wrong. I dated an INFP for years and in the end she was just too unsure of a) why everyone didn't worship her, and b) if she was certain she could continue, given the current state of the world. I found her cyclical and predicable. Besides hiding behind everyone else made the worship desire self-defeating.

Doesn't it kinda make sense that if INFPs question themselves, their validity, whether they are truly living in accordance with their own nature, etc etc, then they probably also question their type?

Anecdotal evidence of the type you give is not very convincing because, the sample pool is nonexistent, there's no way for us to know that she was really an INFP because lots and lots of people get theirs and others type wrong, and INFPs don't even want to be worshiped that's more of an INFJ thing.

 

[Spocksleftball]

Please, continue.

It sounds like you've only managed to scratch the surface of this provocative area of study and still have a deep repository of insight that you would like to contribute.

no need. Here you are again

 

[Jennywocky]

no need. Here you are again

You need to stop taking this so seriously.

But yeah, don't bother, I'm done engaging you.

Doesn't it kinda make sense that if INFPs question themselves, their validity, whether they are truly living in accordance with their own nature, etc etc, then they probably also question their type?

Anecdotal evidence of the type you give is not very convincing because, the sample pool is nonexistent, there's no way for us to know that she was really an INFP because lots and lots of people get theirs and others type wrong, and INFPs don't even want to be worshiped that's more of an INFJ thing.

Well, yeah, in accordance with the first part of that, I noted earlier in the thread that typically INPs are conflicted from running on Ji (which is closure oriented, it wants to draw conclusions) paired with the unlimited open-endedness of Ne. Any new bit of data will force Ji to reevaluate. Thus, closure is never reached if the INP is actually engaging the world in a way that allows for a continual flow of new information.

[As a side note, I think this is why the Ji+Si loop can become predominate -- it's actually a way to lessen chaos and constant change, it allows Ji to come to closure. So INPs under stress will predictably hit the Si loop and rely on past fixed info, to provide some stability if they're under continual stress in their lives.]

INTPs at least are typically just thrown off by environment data, but INFPs can be thrown off by their own feelings / harmonance with their feeling state. So if they "feel off" for some reason, then it throws everything out of whack -- this can be internally driven and externally driven.

All that is according to the actual MBTI theory, it's inherent in the definitions.

In general, my other comments were simply, "This is what I've seen" over the last seven years / 40,000 posts on type forums. It's not like I pulled it totally out of my ass. Yes, I could be wrong. It's just anecdotal. I was simply providing data that seemed to suggest in addition to the theory itself that I've seen many more INFPs get confused than INTPs, but of course that doesn't mean that INTPs don't become confused at all.... nor that no other types don't get confused as well.

^^ Maybe I should rewrite that last bit, ha! All the negatives... not even sure I phrased it right. "Yes, INTPs can become confused, and other types also can of course become confused."

 

[Cherry Cola]

Yeah and they seem to equate not being themselves with being useless which doesn't help things.

 

[Jennywocky]

Yeah and they seem to equate not being themselves with being useless which doesn't help things.

Interesting.

Well, when an INTP feels she doesn't understand anything (or can't tap into the information flow for some reason), she also feels blind AKA useless. It's kind of comparable between types.

 

[Spocksleftball]

Doesn't it kinda make sense that if INFPs question themselves, their validity, whether they are truly living in accordance with their own nature, etc etc, then they probably also question their type?

Anecdotal evidence of the type you give is not very convincing because, the sample pool is nonexistent, there's no way for us to know that she was really an INFP because lots and lots of people get theirs and others type wrong, and INFPs don't even want to be worshiped that's more of an INFJ thing.

While you are correct, there is no sample pool for me to point to; my point is there is no sample pool for anyone to point to. Empirical Internet references are equivalent to a null set used in multiplication.

Based upon my experience, I expounded on someones questioning their type as evidence for INTPness. This was challenged, even though it was meant tongue-in-cheek. I gave a contrarian view of what someone else posted--I considered a blanket statement--to which I am opposed. I questioned no one's intellect or right to have their own opinion, yet mine seems to need invalidation based upon a sample set of 1 as opposed to 0.

And here, another blanket statement "INFPs don't even want to be worshiped that's more of an INFJ thing" that again makes me wonder, for the second time in as many days on this site, if the majority here are letting definition--ala internet--drive the concerns. INFP and INFJ are not two types of people that act in any regimented way like other INFP or INFJ people. Type isn't a gimp suit that fits all of one type or another.

 

[Cherry Cola]

While you are correct, there is no sample pool for me to point to; my point is there is no sample pool for anyone to point to. Empirical Internet references are equivalent to a null set used in multiplication.

Based upon my experience, I expounded on someones questioning their type as evidence for INTPness. This was challenged, even though it was meant tongue-in-cheek. I gave a contrarian view of what someone else posted--I considered a blanket statement--to which I am opposed. I questioned no one's intellect or right to have their own opinion, yet mine seems to need invalidation based upon a sample set of 1 as opposed to 0.

And here, another blanket statement "INFPs don't even want to be worshiped that's more of an INFJ thing" that again makes me wonder, for the second time in as many days on this site, if the majority here are letting definition--ala internet--drive the concerns. INFP and INFJ are not two types of people that act in any regimented way like other INFP or INFJ people. Type isn't a gimp suit that fits all of one type or another.

My eyes hurt now. Anyway..

You need to consider the subject and the context. This is a forum, you have 14 posts, no one knows who you are or anything about your level of proficiency when it comes to MBTI; hencewhy, it's not strange that people won't take your word when you make a generalization based upon 1 instance, also including in the same post another generalization based on nothing which isn't even correct.

Jennywocky on the other hand is a well known user, people know that she can back her shit up, that she makes sense, and knows MBTI. So when she says that in her experience, which is banned on multiple cases being observed over a period of time in different forums it will carry more weight than what you said. This isn't all fair but that's how it works. Your also wrong to say that Empirical Internet references are equivalent to null, why would that be? Your whole point rests upon your ex being a better example of INFPs in general than several INTPs from different internet forums. So you should explain why that is.

It was a blanket statement from my side that INFJ's want to be worshiped rather than INFPs, it's a commonly known fact about INFJ's after all. Types are abstract concepts designed so that all people fall under them, it follows thus that any statement about the characteristic of any given type has to be a generalization, that's so trivial and so obvious it hurts to point it out. The difference between my statement and yours was that mine was correct. You don't need to backup basic knowledge, if you had to then having any form of discussion would be tedious. Kindly look it up yourself.

You also state that one cannot generalize when it comes to INFPs and INFJs because they don't necessarily act like other INFPs and INFJs. But types are gimp suits (they are not kinds of people, like you wrote) designed to be one size fits all they just don't cover all aspects of personality, and no one is required to have all aspects of a type to belong to said type. This is also trivial and obvious. This is another reason why your ex is a much worse source of information than what Jennywocky had to offer. I think you suffer from a case of hubris, because you've made no sense thus far but you're still being all "haha I'm so much smarter than this forum".

I mean so far what you've done is complain about generalizations in a subject that revolves around generalizing as well as pointing out (as if though I or anyone else was unaware of it) that two people of the same type can be very different. Oh yeah you also claimed that internet=null without saying why that is.

Culvuterate Dreblishnyskler

That made more sense than your goddamn shit post, please stop wasting my time.

 

[Base groove]

If you are still stuck contemplating your INTPness in a subroutine after days, weeks, or years, then the answer is yes you are an INTP. No other type would bother.

And here, another blanket statement "INFPs don't even want to be worshiped that's more of an INFJ thing" that again makes me wonder, for the second time in as many days on this site, if the majority here are letting definition--ala internet--drive the concerns. INFP and INFJ are not two types of people that act in any regimented way like other INFP or INFJ people. Type isn't a gimp suit that fits all of one type or another.

Maybe you would like to make an attempt to explain yourself again, maybe without excessive sarcasm, as you seem to have opposing or contradictory opinions which might be causing you problems?

 

[Cherry Cola]

He was too busy being right so unfortunately he didn't have time to realize that while his argument is sound in itself it not only applies to his opponent, but to everyone who dabbles, dabbled or will dabble in MBTI including himself. It's like using dynamite as pesticide. Yeah sure it was nasty seeing those cockroaches crawling around in your house.. but at least back then you a house.

 

[Minuend]

My eyes hurt now. Anyway..

You need to consider the subject and the context. This is a forum, you have 14 posts, no one knows who you are or anything about your level of proficiency when it comes to MBTI; hencewhy, it's not strange that people won't take your word when you make a generalization based upon 1 instance, also including in the same post another generalization based on nothing which isn't even correct.

Jennywocky on the other hand is a well known user, people know that she can back her shit up, that she makes sense, and knows MBTI. So when she says that in her experience, which is banned on multiple cases being observed over a period of time in different forums it will carry more weight than what you said. This isn't all fair but that's how it works.

That's not true for all of us. Even people who are knowledgeable of something can be erroneous. I don't take something for face value just because a certain user said it. And I don't take new people less seriously just because they are new.

I'm actually surprised when people look to longtime users as a kind of authority figure that knows more and have more insight, even when they are obviously wrong. It's a terrible bias. Of course, sometimes I'm influenced by the bias too. But when people do it more or less consciously..

This isn't about the posters in question, btw, it's a general statement about a trend.

 

[Jennywocky]

While I appreciate support from people, I'd rather focus on the arguments I made:

- My sample size is over a long period of time and many interactions / observations with people online -- it's not an observation of one person who I happen to be involved with. If I provided numbers, it was to quantify the sample size and observation period I'm talking about. You can evaluate for yourself whether the sample size is large and varied enough.

- MBTI theory itself suggests that INPs is one of the more likely types to confuse themselves where self-typing is concerned, simply by the nature of the functions involved, and INFP could be expected to edge out INTP since at least the INTP has a more detached perspective vs the INFP need for internal harmony as a balancing mechanism to signal when something is "right." i.e., the external anchoring used by INTP helps keep it a bit more stable.

I noted too that I could be wrong; the arguments I made suggest certain conclusions but aren't conclusive.

 

[redbaron]

I tend to agree that INFP's pretty much rival or exceed INTP's when it comes to self-doubt and uncertainty. From personal interactions (INFP father and an INFP friend) and given the general knowledge obtained from various MBTI sources

It seems like the INFP in general is the only type capable of being as floundering as an INTP. The persistent desire for certainty (Ji), followed by the persistent desire for uncertainty (Ne) seems to affect both types greater than others.

It's not so bad for ENXP's, because they revel in the chaos of uncertainty - which ironically makes it easier for them to have greater certainty of their type. Whereas INXP's can also revel in chaos, but eventually want to retreat from it - it is an unnatural feeling and can quickly cause fatigue and anxiety. Yet it's hard to allow oneself to commit to anything as a Ti or Fi dom - there's always something that just doesn't sit with their incredibly individualized notions of what is logical (Ti) or valuable (Fi).

In either case, I'd agree that INFP can't be ruled out on the premise being discussed.

 

[Cherry Cola]

That's not true for all of us. Even people who are knowledgeable of something can be erroneous. I don't take something for face value just because a certain user said it. And I don't take new people less seriously just because they are new.

I'm actually surprised when people look to longtime users as a kind of authority figure that knows more and have more insight, even when they are obviously wrong. It's a terrible bias. Of course, sometimes I'm influenced by the bias too. But when people do it more or less consciously..

This isn't about the posters in question, btw, it's a general statement about a trend.

That's true, still it's a phenomenon that cannot be said not to exist. It's also less about authority than it is about knowing what's can reasonably be true coming from another user. In this case there was anecdotal evidence which isn't like a logical argument you can follow, hence the phenomenon becomes a lot more prominent.

 

[redbaron]

It's also less about authority than it is about knowing what's can reasonably be true coming from another user.

I don't think anyone should ever assume anything can reasonably be true based on the user it comes from - ever.

I kind of liked that Spock challenged an idea on the basis that it didn't mesh with his own experience. MBTI is built on anecdotal evidence after all, and it's a net positive when someone shares more information. Even if I disagree with the conclusion, I enjoy it when users do not simply take things on faith - something I think the forum does a bit too much of when it comes to certain MBTI ideas/theories.