How to be more decisive

[Ex-User (8886)]

Some time ago a INFJ told me: always choose the choice with the most choices. Perhaps it can be good for Ni people, but it's too much confusing for Ne, especially strong Ne people .

So there is an option: do the opposite, limit the choices.

(yeah, it's simple thought, I leave you expanding it)

here is an instance:
let's say you can work in home or in office. In home I can do many many things, maybe hundreds and maybe it's the reason why I can't focus, study and work in home. In office I have desk and a book or a computer and I have only 1 option - study/work.

And well, I study/work.

let me know what do you think and if it works in your life dear Ne-friends.

 

[Grayman]

Re: How to be more decisiveness.

Work at the coffee shop. The dopamine levels will increase and you'll be more productive. Maybe read a book in the forrest at the creek, especially a fantasy book as this provides more immersion.

More options that are of no use are just distractions or misdirections. Functionality is my dominant decision making function.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Re: How to be more decisiveness.

here is an instance:
let's say you can work in home or in office. In home I can do many many things, maybe hundreds and maybe it's the reason why I can't focus, study and work in home. In office I have desk and a book or a computer and I have only 1 option - study/work.

I understand you might've wanted to have a broader conversation but this in particular could relate to not having a structured learning / working environment where one's ability to be productive is impacted by possible attention deficits. If this is your main example, I wonder if you mean to discuss problems with attention & productivity or ADD?

 

[Hadoblado]

Changed title from 'how to be more decisiveness.', though if ESC is correct, it might need to be reworked to something along the lines of 'how to control my attention'.

Okay here goes:

More options is good in decision-making theory (see, decisiveness), but if you're trying to pay attention to something, less options can be better, depending on your cognitive 'load-out'. I suspect, similar to myself, you have difficulty dismissing possibilities. This can lead to all kinds of very odd behaviour. If you're sitting there at home with a desktop full of games beckoning, and a whole house full of work baying, and a gym down the road crying over you not having been in a week, and fast-food outlets that could make you forget all your woes in a finger-licking fury, it's pretty difficult to stay on task. All it takes is to consider one of these things once, and then it's taking up a non-negligible portion of my attention and trying to make it go away makes me think of it more. Without even going and committing to playing a game, it's limiting my effectiveness, giving me less reason not to play a game. The decision is now between working somewhere between 10% and 90% effectiveness, vs. 0% effectiveness and maybe being 100% effective later down the track when I'm less distracted. That would be more time efficient no?

By removing the option, my mind gets it into its thick head that the thought is not relevant, and the thought will eventually die, leaving me in peace to work.

I read an old study recently where even something as simple as running is more difficult if you're distracted. I can't remember the details, but it was something along the lines of runners who were counting forward in twos were less effective runners.

There's also a link between familiar surroundings and mindstates. Just like how people that only use their bed to sleep in are more able to get to sleep, a space where you only ever study in will put in you the right mindframe to study.

It's also good to keep comfort levels up. If you're unhappy while doing something, you will go into escape mode and be looking for ways to make yourself less miserable (such as say... not working). If you're comfortable and not unhappy (being happy while working is a bit of a stretch), you won't feel like you need to change the state of play. Personally I plan my study session out to remove all options and have all possible needs addressed. Music, sweets, drink, and a bathroom nearby. It's worth the effort to make sure everything goes smoothly.

 

[Sinny91]

Flip a coin.

 

[Ex-User (8886)]

Maybe I poorly expressed my thought. I give you some more examples:
1) I played World of Warcraft for many years and choosing a class was unsolvable problem - I was playing every class (there was 10 of them) and I never achivied anything in this game, because with most characters I didn't even reached maximum level, what was basis and just beginning. I used reasoning *always choose the choice with the most choices* and I choose druid, who could take every possible role in this game. But...

There was classes that were specialized in one thing and was better at it. Because I'm extremely competitive and want always be the best I couldn't play druid. So to the point, what would be my solution to the problem now?

Join a community (guild), ask what classes they need, add one criterion(best at something [dealing damage]) and choice would be very very easy.

more examples soon

 

[QuickTwist]

I think if you meditate you will be able to concentrate better and therefore well be more decisive.

Getting the Ne out through meditation can be a good way to keep your thoughts focused.

 

[Jennywocky]

Yeah, I've done that before. ..using external criteria to arbitrarily help me limit choice so I can make headway.

 

[Ex-User (8886)]

Yeah, I've done that before. ..using external criteria to arbitrarily help me limit choice so I can make headway.

and was it good for you?

 

[RaBind]

The reason Intp's value Ne so much so that it routinely becomes distracting, plaguing their minds with self doubt, is because above all else intps are concerned with being right.

Even if we are wrong we still want to be able to say that we weren't completely wrong, that we knew or felt all along that something was wrong. The need to always be correct can lead to being risk adverse.

In theory there is a "right" and "wrong" answer to every decision that can be made, and the intp wants and can enjoy pondering about these decisions (not arbitary ones, only those that they think are worthy) endlessly, always trying to see if they can optimize their view by even a little at each iteration.

In reality there are many ways to be right, and as it has been said many times, the execution is much more important than the idea in many cases.

Optimization leads to the most efficient use of effort, excluding the effort used for optimization as intps enjoy that shit and do it one way or another regardless of whether they should or need to, optimization doesn't necessary lead to the most outstanding performance, but like I said intps aren't after that anyway they are after that magical efficiency.

The solution is not to focus so much on the "best way to do things" but on the way to do things that will lead to "the best result". I'd think this would difficult though as you've be trying to go against the natural way your mind works.

 

[Jennywocky]

and was it good for you?

It helps.

I didn't have as much issue with focus when younger, I could drop into the groove and block out the rest of the world and stay focused for a very long time more than most people.

It's like when I started looking outward at all the diversity and started exploring lots of options / being open to options, well, it's a great thing on some levels and keeps my mind taking on new possibilities, but my focus is shot to hell. (I honestly think the Internet, which I also loved from the get-go, is another problem in terms of mucking up our attention spans. The brain seems to be wired to seek new input/stimulation constantly and has trouble going deep as easily.) I have some long-term projects I badly want to work on, or goals I want to achieve, and it's hell to get into a groove nowadays although once I establish focus, I can become driven again.

anyway, because my decision making can become too complex (using nuance, and having too many options), I find it easier to limit choice in some way, or "discover a value" to guide me, etc., so as to come to decisions. People do this anyway, automatically -- you get married, you limit your options. You set a spending limit, you limit options of what to buy. You choose a city to look for a house in, you limit your options. You pick a career, you limit job options. The limit in some way is imposed and "arbitrary" versus mandated, but it simplifies the problem solving.

Another thing that goes along with this -- at some point, additional options do not significantly improve outcome, since those options are likely very similar to the currently existing option pool. So you allow for the pool of options large enough to significantly improve getting the "best range of outcome" and then toss the rest that offering diminishing returns.

 

[JimJambones]

I'm trying to decide if I even want to be more decisive.

 

[QuickTwist]

I'm trying to decide if I even want to be more decisive.

Its even funnier because your being honest.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm trying to decide if I even want to be more decisive.

Gosh, man -- how did you even decide to post something about being indecisive, being that indecisive???

 

[JimJambones]

Gosh, man -- how did you even decide to post something about being indecisive, being that indecisive???

I think I'm making progress.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

If you want to be more decisive, just choose the option that sings out to you the loudest at the time,

Honestly, for a quick tip, just use a "random" mode of choosing, like, before you get the answers say to yourself "I'll choose the... third option", then when presented with the options, just choose option 3 with the confidence to knock down a skyscraper.

It can't fail, and neither will you.

 

[Nebulous]

I find solace in the idea that even if choose the "wrong" choice in this universe, there's an infinite amount of alternate universes in which I choose the other option.

*throws glitter in the air* multiverse

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I find solace in the idea that even if choose the "wrong" choice in this universe, there's an infinite amount of alternate universes in which I choose the other option.

*throws glitter in the air* multiverse

Multiverse is here, we are an multimik time till world end transcend, find a fire to burn for eons never sought for crisis towers upon they screaming souls.

Heavens gates of all irate, the hate of times endured for Love, of all above the ground around, the sound of minds explode expansive, trespass upon they night's dissolve.

 

[Grayman]

How do you INTP make the simple things so difficult. Then we have the opposite. People who are over simplifying it and suggesting it just be random.

The number of choices is so far down the list of importance. Pick the best option that has the greatest chance if success. If two tie for first place choose the one that consumes less time and you enjoy.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

always choose the choice with the most choices.

Wouldn't this be ideal for Ne dom? So that they don't feel trapped chasing after the next best idea/opportunity..



I feel like the thread integrates more than one concept. As already mentioned I'm understanding that it could be a factor of attention deficits, but I see it also relating to being a specialist or generalist. Like with your MMO example, trying to do too much at one time means there will always be someone who outperforms you in a particular skill which hurts your external success, as well as your internal success because of failure, distractions, workload and stress. Also there's making up your mind in what you want to do for your personal and professional life, settling down allows you to build up success which you could then use to follow your uncertain dreams when you have the resources. And then at the day to day level, narrowed choices mean you have more power to scrutinize possibilities and optimize your outcome.

 

[IndigoViolet11]

This is from someone who score around 90+% in P. Er, well..

I do divination on that lolol. Put one, put two, put three, download a randomizer, press the key,. Ah the capital "He" chose one for me, and there I go. Job done. Less trouble

But here the devil kicks in
Hey still not rational enough. But then, IF, at times, two or more choice is just so so much equal that you are damned desperate in a second to choose one and go, that might be a good idea. If I am that of a degree desperate, I put my left and right hand out (in my mind not out in public tho), and choose either left or right, something similar to a coin flip. Left for choice A, right for choice B, or maybe make up an extra one choice between Left and Right, call it Middle perhaps.

In real world though, there are choices that is supreb headache, and it seems that INTP are so prone to things like that, rationalizing all aspects of everything and then computer shock boom overloaded with that. Too much information. Too many to digest. Nothing done at the end, and stalemate sitting there could not do a thing. A pain, totally... terribly, just absolutely annoying to an extend that I would want to throw myself out.

Sometimes I just couldn't evaluate anything due to the comparatively lack of information on so much aspect of my life, especially that the awareness of very strong, but had to throw myself out knowing that, and kick myself out to at least get something done. Who knows, the thinking process sometimes is fast enough to at least make something happens, and at least, to get some basics out of the way. It is at times risky, a degree of risk that one needs to put in sometimes.

 

[Intolerable]

I'm the hare in the turtle and hare story.

I can do virtually anything I'm motivated to do. Therein lies the problem. I'm motivated to do something very, very rarely. It usually comes in spontaneous bursts where I'll form a goal in my mind and then burn through a task all superhuman like. Then my jets cool and I'm in an almost comatose state for a bit. Sometimes for days.

I do not view this as procrastination. Rather I view it as prep work. My mind is spending hours formulating a strategy to do a task in half the time I normally do it. That's how I explain the process. If I don't do something it's because I haven't yet found the optimal way to do it.

Yes, there are things I hate doing. Only because I never could find a way to do them that was optimal.

 

[IndigoViolet11]

Hey guys I just wonder. Will it help that we get distracted for like 15-30 mins about something, and then spend the rest 45 mins to an hour to get things done actually? And not answering any phone calls unless they are important? You spend some reasonable time in hobbies, and then put it aside for laters.

 

[cotovios]

How do you INTP make the simple things so difficult. Then we have the opposite. People who are over simplifying it and suggesting it just be random.

The number of choices is so far down the list of importance. Pick the best option that has the greatest chance if success. If two tie for first place choose the one that consumes less time and you enjoy.

So far so good but what if the greatest chance of success is a choice you're trying to avoid?

Let's say you're deciding between playing videogames and doing some work. According to the frame of past experience where you chose videogames more often than doing the work which makes it the one with the greatest chance of success, how do you deal with this kind of choice?

 

[IncohateINTP]

Check out The Paradox of Choice - Why More is Less by Barry Schwartz. Too many choices will reduce the effectiveness of making / ability to make decisions.

 

[viche]

Set a goal of what you are trying to achieve.
Out of the options you see, select the ones that will move you to that goal. In other words prioritize the options in accordance with your goal.
Next act on them and realize the options that would move you towards the goal.

And finally, don't worry much about it because as much of life is about exploration as it is about "streamlining" yourself, so checking out different options isn't all that bad in the end. It's best if there is a balance ofc.

The advice "choose the choice with most choices" sounds only further confusing and disorienting to anyone who already has a strong intuition and is waddling around all these options every day of their life.

 

[Grayman]

So far so good but what if the greatest chance of success is a choice you're trying to avoid?

Let's say you're deciding between playing videogames and doing some work. According to the frame of past experience where you chose videogames more often than doing the work which makes it the one with the greatest chance of success, how do you deal with this kind of choice?

That is just the difference between what you think you should want and what you really want.