How the fuck do I deal with existential crisis? Is it Autism? "Reality" is exhausting

[louiesgonnadie]

I know, I've posted threads like this before. But this time, I'm done. I'm serious about getting out of this rut. I need to put insight into action. I feel desperate.

I posted this on a similar forum, breathed in all of the insight I got into my own conclusion, and decided meditation would be the best thing to start with -- yet I can't focus for jack shit, I am not aware of what is going on in my body and I am so consciously aware of every new thing or thing in general that I do that it's hard to be productive. Literally, I'm like "okay, just focus on where you are. breathe. how am I breathing? what the fuck am I doing? I look dumb as shit. Ugh, that aspergers tho? I'll worry about that later...but what if it explains this issue? How else can I trace this back? *thought pops up that is too complex to articulate in speech or type* I think I need to eat..." It's so fucking ridiculous. I'm deciding to post this here because like I said, I've posted here before, got good feedback, and I relate to the INTP/INP type at least in the MBTI system (or in other words, a stereotypical collection of traits associated with the type) which obviously doesn't mean shit, but at the same time also kind of does, at least in a communicational/social wavelength. So maybe that might help. Call me an attention-seeking dipshit, fuck it. I'm so done with this. I'm taking anything I can get at this point, anything of relevance.

And yeah, this is going to be TL;DR as fuck, but if you're interested in giving me feedback for whatever reason: please try to make a concerted effort at, at the least, getting a sense of my situation. Reading each paragraph will give you the best idea of the essence of my situation, because it is very complex and each paragraph elaborately ties the core mechanics of my situation together, like a story. In other words, skimming may lead to misunderstanding of my situation. So, read this like a story. If you're not interested in a story, I suggest you stop reading.
____

My life is in shambles. There are quite a few things going on at the moment, but it can be boiled down to a process called existential depression and anxiety. The root of it: if I can't pursue or access my purpose, there is no purpose anymore. I believe that there is a rational reason why; instead of explicitly stating why, I think my story will explain. The state of my well being and cognition could potentially hold me back, which is why this is even as big of an issue.

I got into typology almost two years ago. After struggling to find my type for about eight or nine months (despite other forumers finding it easy to pick out a type for me), I once again realized I was diagnosed with Aspergers ages ago (about 4 or 5 years old, so late 90s) and that led me to wonder if that was a reason why; a different brain structure. One year earlier, I found out I had such a diagnosis, and I went back in forth of being in denial, wondering what the fuck aspergers really was, and theorizing fallacies fueled by hope. I noticed having aspergers conflicted with my values, and a year later, I realized it may or may not be a possibility that my cognition may be autistic; I am of the belief that there is always room for error in the case of an observationally conclusive diagnosis, especially autism. I gathered some information from my childhood which made me afraid because at face value, it did seem to explain why the diagnosis fit -- which threw me into a suicidal loop for the first time in my life. But then, I formulated a plan to do everything I can to reevaluate such a diagnosis as accurate as possible, and learn as much about it as possible, so I can test others opinions. My depression and social anxiety deepened, suicidal thoughts and concept of suicide contrasted with my situation deepened and evolved, went into psych hospitalization twice, resumed therapy and psychiatry appointments, did group therapy on two separate occasions, and a year and three months later, I'm in the same paradigm; just more defined. I know much more about aspergers, mainly through an empirical perspective all consisting of factual information, anecdotal observation and personal theories.

I don't believe Autism is that arbitrary as people state it is. Everyone experiences it differently, but it's a similar process if it's a brain structure, which it is -- overconnectivity in certain regions of the brain resulting in deficits in others compared to a typical brain structure. It is a different cognitive wavelength of processing information compared to "neurotypical" processing. Autistic processing is naturally linear, while neurotypical processing is naturally balanced. It makes sense that autism is a disability in this case -- because it's a different way of processing information, people with Autism become stressed out trying to emulate or interact with the "neurotypical" processing wavelength (e.g integrating oneself into the world), and have to make a conscious effort to make up for such a deficit. Even if a person with autism can emulate the process pretty well externally, internally it causes stress since it is not a natural process, and will mentally drain the person with autism. This is bad because it takes away from the experience acting as a distraction. Compare that to a neurotypical process, which is much more balanced and dynamic in multiple aspects, not just in a social context but in a complete cognitive context. Obviously, this is all very broad, but this explains why neurotypical people will have an advantage productively in many aspects, even intellectually -- obviously neurotypicals are not incapable of possessing high intellectual capabilities, and they are probably more capable of grasping concepts because they have a natural ability to see a broader perspective, compared to the autistic person who naturally fixates on certain aspects. I posted about this in greater detail on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/aspergers/comments/2f433u/my_opinion_on_asd_discuss/ I also think this explains why people with Autism may have difficulty finding their type, for instance. Because it is a different brain structure, the way cognitive functions normally would manifest would be vastly different -- resulting in an unbalanced type. This is what I believe autism to be. And keep all of that in mind combined with my situation, because this all ties into my concerns.

But that's one thing. A major part of my crisis, but just one part of the picture. A clear part of the picture. I still have that plan to re-evaluate that diagnosis locked into the long-term, just don't know when. The main things that are fucking with me is this constant wall of anxiety and depression, and nonstop thoughts roaming through my head. Literally. The thoughts and feelings about autism are there to influence the main issues, and the scary thing is that autism may have been the issue after all.

I've dealt with this for the past five years, and my well being has generally gotten worse as time went on. I turned 20 this past summer, graduated high school (if you even count private "special school" a real graduation, and I didn't accomplish jack shit in technical school either) and I am still in the same boat, same depth of the water. Actually, I've had a very complex life. I haven't had consistent education. Public school made me really anxious in the fourth grade, and after a mishap involving a teacher, I was shipped to private school. I missed three years of school due to personal issues. "Personal issues" -- family abuse, poverty and borderline homelessness. So a lot of things have held me back, and hindered my personal development. I went through a socially awkward phase because of what was going on, which was hell starting high school (aka resuming school), and alienated childhood friends and potential friends due to that. I developed social anxiety, and then depression. I burned bridges which could have led to success, and other bridges that weren't even in my control were also burned. And now here I am. I still have bridges which are in danger, which is why I'm posting this.

I'm trying to focus on short term goals at the moment. Due to my depression/anxiety/issues (or just autism, which is the worst case scenario) I've been borderline agoraphobic, a forced shut-in residing in my room. I've came out of my cave and tried to get somewhere, even to the point of almost landing a job at a cafe last summer and made a friend or two, but it was never really worth it and gave me more insight into my problems or exposed problems I had with depression/anxiety/issues (or autism, god forbid). I withdraw after stress and try to analyze what went wrong, and then recharge. Depends on how serious the issue was, which in the most extreme cases, I've decided to avoid situations where, at least, I think I failed, and which may expose or exacerbate the issue further. So, I've been mostly wasting time for the past 4 years. I am at a standstill. 20 years old, and never had a job, license, driver's permit, credit, and a really inconvenient support network (no friends, struggling family). I haven't learned really anything about the intension of "reality" (life) over the past two years, and my academic experience in "high school" and technical school was wasted away by daydreaming and depression/anxiety/issues (or autism, I swear to fucking god). So, again, here I am, at a standstill.

Now, I've gone back and forth between being withdrawn/daydreaming/distracted by other things I thought were of value (and which negative possibilities of those things influenced my depression/anxiety) over the past four years which contributed to the hole I'm in right now. But now, at age 20-and-almost a-half, in the same hole, deeper -- this is starting to get really fucking pathetic. I'd do literally anything to get out of this hole and start bettering myself, and working towards small goals vis-a-vis long term goals/an area of stability (happiness). But I'm struggling to. Because I have so much bullshit going on in my head: thoughts, feelings, and ideas triggered by depression/anxiety (or autism, kill me now) -- so much so that my energy is chronically low, and a part of me is nagging "Recharge! Go play that strategy metagame for an hour to take the edge off." or some stupid shit. It doesn't matter how small of a goal I can set for myself, like brushing my teeth or taking out the trash -- hell, I save pages I want to read later as bookmarks and lack the effort to read it, or do it because I'm spending so much time 'recharging' over things that don't matter. I want to learn new things, but I can't completely comprehend anything I am unfamiliar with -- whether it be a concept, idea or even word sentence -- sometimes things just don't fucking register in my brain and don't appear to logically make any sense. The funny thing is, if it's related to some abstract model in my imagination contrasted with components of "reality" (I'll get to "reality" later) or something that just doesn't matter in the long-term (like something to take the edge off, like a strategy game) then the issue isn't as bad. So basically, things I am only familiar with, I can comprehend with just a solid amount of accuracy. Now, if you want to get clinical about this, you could probably just summarize all of this as low dopamine and serotonin. Obviously.

However, I find that even when I'm reading up on something that I might be familiar with, like autism/ASD for example, I get scatterminded, skim through paragraphs to let everything settle in, and find myself going back and forth between the external world (what I'm reading) and my internal, fucked up mind of bullshit. Within 5 minutes of reading something of value, I automatically find myself linking it to how it might be compatible with my situation or potential situations further down the road. Numerous times. Actually, that's about at least 75% of my day -- creating hypothetical situations in my head. Usually, social situations; I attribute this to my social anxiety. I'm always having these stupid conversations with myself, like rehearsal. You name it, positively or negatively tinted, they automatically pop into my mind and I often save more realistic ones as these "social scripts" that I can have access to if I don't know how to respond to something or if the conversation calls for that script. Because well, I'm not that interesting of a person, and externally at least, I totally lack any sort of gusto whatsoever. This ties into my unfortunate circumstances which robbed me of having typical life experiences appropriate to my development, and also my withdrawal period over the past five years -- I can't relate to other people in regards to content about myself. Or I'd just be like "Duhhh, hey! Does anyone like the color blue??? I saw a funny youtube video earlier!" like a dunce, without elaborating further.

The biggest reason why I have such a hard time with this, though, is because those things that matter are related to things I want for myself, and things I want to experience. Even if it is just something to know, something that seems relevant to myself or my life or what I want to be part of the construction of my life. I want to learn and keep learning, that's hallmark to being an open-minded person, learning is self-improvement, it just makes so much sense to me. But because it matters, it stresses me the fuck out. Whenever I try to learn something, I get into this hyper-conscious and almost manic state where I'm like "Okay, let's fuckin' do this! Okay, that's interesting. Wait, what the fuck does that mean? I'll google what "derived" means. Okay. Let's read more. Okay, what the fuck? That reminds me of my cousin, didn't she say something like that example of people like that illustrated? Why am I not even that close with my cousin anyway? *hypothetical social situation pops into my head* *start telling off my cousin, aunts and uncles, going into this intellectual rage* Wait, is it just aspergers? *go back on reddit's sub for aspergers* Okay fuck this, I'm playing GTA." Or some shit. I always get thrown into this loop whenever I confront what matters, and end up going back to what doesn't matter, because I simply stress the fuck out and end up getting way too distracted by hypotheticals derived from what I am reading. It might just be anxiety mentally preparing myself. I have no idea how to get out of this loop.

Back to the social anxiety and related issues. I'm a pretty skeptical person. Extraverted iNtuition, not confident, just fucking crazy -- whatever you want to call it, I always second guess myself and often evaluate every angle of an issue. Part of me sometimes feels like it's not because of my circumstances, but because of Autism. Then the anxiety deepens. I go into this paranoid-esque state of mind. Every time I make a mistake, and not just socially, every goddamn time I make a notable mistake, I automatically link it to 'is it autism?'. I evaluate every goddamn potential inability of mine and link it to whether or not autism is the root of my processing. For instance, I was watching "Mr. Show with Bob and David" a few months ago, which was this mid-late 90s sketch comedy show which was very "Monty Python's Flying Circus" esque, in that the plot of every sketch transitioned into the next and the show would evolve. I found that a lot of these sketches would poke subtle jabs at society, and while some of them I figured out, some of them I didn't (though I, generally, knew it was satire) and while I really enjoyed it, I made such a conscious effort throughout watching it trying to figure it out, that it was depressing and even exhausting. I couldn't help but feel that if I didn't get what they were mocking (even though a lot of it was related to factual and historical information I am ignorant to due to my inconsistent education) it was because I was autistic and stuck in "concrete" processing mode. My social anxiety has also gotten worse over the past year, and because I have so many thoughts and feelings in my head, and such low energy, I have similar experiences in social situations compared to trying to learn a new concept. So, I might look autistic in that I might miss a joke because my mind is skimming through conversations going back and forth between that and my thoughts. Or because I might have trouble structuring my thoughts out loud with complete accuracy, especially in deeper conversations, because of the clusterfuck of thoughts and feelings, and anxiety. It's chaos.

However, while things like human interaction are universally important, I wonder if it's really worth it to have friends. While an intimate relationship would definitely be important to me, I wonder if most women I value are even authentic, decent human beings. I say this because I find that most people are, in one way or another, controlled by a system. Actually, we all have been at some point in our lives, but what matters is realizing what the system is doing to us humans and generally detaching from it, unless inconvenient to do so (I go by "damned if you do, damned if you don't" and weigh my options considerably; in this case it can be a lesser of two evils). This system is called society. Now, when some people think of the term society they think it means people in general. That's not society, that's humanity. However, we as humans have slowly created this system, society, to develop order and structure, and it seems a couple of power seekers developed an attitude which over time, has been taken way too far, and is now glorified and interpreted as 'heroic' (e.g. patriotism). Authority is everywhere, in multiple contexts, and misutilized. We, with the help of the media, have developed this social 'game' we play everyday with people that complicates things that shouldn't be complicated in the first place (e.g. intimacy), and even things non-related to social patterns. We have developed social hierarchy, which is basically peace, inverted. That's just a summary. And yet we wonder why people develop depression. So, I guess you could say I agree with the philosophies by people like Bill Hicks and George Carlin, and have adopted a similar motivation and attitude towards life. I believe everyone should mind their own business and just live, and not take life too seriously. But, since a lot of people aren't willing to do that, I'm okay with doing that myself and associating myself with people who have similar attitudes.

However, and this is important -- it's hard to take the first step and jump start everything with all of these thoughts going on in my head, some of it I illustrated above. Like I mentioned, the autism possibility scares me. I feel like a lot of my values wouldn't be reached if I have such a cognitive way of being, one that heavily affects lateral thinking, which would make it hard to become the person I want to be, and live the life I want to live. I can tell that from what I've observed, autistic people would have a hard time setting up a life that I am trying to establish. I don't want to experience life autistic; with the narrow thinking/processing disrupting my adventurous spirit, and the sensory abnormalities misconstruing positive life experiences (like concerts). I don't want to burn bridges with decent people I could be compatible with, because of a pathetic bullshit way of processing dynamic information. I feel like this disability could prevent me from being able to take advantage of society (again not talking about people in itself, but a system) in order to gather positive elements into my life. I don't want to operate on social scripts to get by in a conversation, which is a waste of my thoughts, if that's even explained by autism. I don't want to be more naturally attuned to what doesn't matter, especially if that's a rigid routine I've settled into, explained by autism. Even if I were to find some positivity, I feel like the stress caused by my way of processing would be wasted time and not worth it -- the way I would process information conflicts with the way the world should be processed. If you read that thread I posted about aspergers above, you might see why there is an issue being on a different cognitive wavelength. Also, it's hard to focus on things that matter, even the most simple, when you do things like indirectly linking your father's downfall -- going from a solid guy and family man, to an prescription drug addicted, psuedo-manic madman -- to the aspergers diagnosis you received as a very young child (my mother suspected something was going on, and referred me to a psychiatrist, was being treated by this psychiatrist who ended up retiring about three years later, and he referred me to another psychiatrist who ended up being irresponsible, meanwhile my father felt like he wasn't doing enough to support us and decided to start seeing my new psychiatrist, and was prescribed adderall, he had a reaction and the psychiatrist kept prescribing). I feel like these events are interconnected, and if I wasn't autistic, or if my mother didn't suspect something -- my father might still be with me and my family today, or the situation may have not been as bad and my father could have recovered. I can't help but hold myself accountable in some way. I can't help but be distracted by this guilt, and many other things, that are triggered by my self-loathing, low self-esteem; such as OCD like symptoms -- forcing myself to engage in rituals that make me miserable (such as watching a sad scene in a movie more than I want to) and sometimes even put me at risk -- all because of a great feeling of relief and conquer afterwards (though, I'm starting to hold a tighter reign on that via rational thought, with some success).

All of this reminds me that it wasn't like I had a choice to come into this world. I mean, it is my life -- why is it selfish to be in complete control of it? After all, Bill Hicks said "It's just a ride" -- to put this analogy in a different perspective, would you want to be stuck on the ferris wheel when you're afraid of heights? Compare that to my worst case scenario. See the connection? If the worst case scenario comes to fruition -- that if I do have Autism, and if it prevents me from reaching a positive platform in my life where my values are reached, then why the fuck should I keep living? It's disappointing. Wasted youth, seeing other sentient beings enjoy the elements I value that I never was able to experience, stressed out by a world that I am cognitively miswired to, etc. It's no different then being on that satanic rollercoaster forcing chunks of vomit out of your system. They're both unpleasant experiences. So, why suffer with that? All of that would give me motivation to just throw in the towel and kill myself.

So yeah, a lot of things going on, more elaborate than that, but that's kind of the gist of it. I basically feel like Steven Wilson in Porcupine Tree's "Fear Of A Blank Planet". As for right now, I want to focus on getting a job, income, being able to drive, and moving out. Trying to take things in bite-sized chunks for now. More specifically, I'm trying to find volunteer work because I have no job experience. Again, with all of these thoughts and issues roaming through my head, with the depression and anxiety (or autism, start decorating my grave), the suspense -- I cannot focus, and with every mistake I make I link it to the worst case scenario and start having suicidal and even homicidal thoughts. It's bad. So I'm trapped in a hole of internal fear. I have no idea how to get out of this hole. Like I said, I'm trying to make a concerted effort at meditation to start clearing my mind so I can prepare for learning about the life I want to build for myself, yet at the same type I feel like my psyche can't be arsed to deal with it. I feel resistance. Therapy isn't helping. I think my mother also has issues right now so she's having trouble grasping my situation. Prescription drugs aren't helping so far and I really don't want to go through the trial and error process of that (let alone be on prescription drugs all my life, or be ignorant of what's in my body) so I stopped taking them yesterday. I don't have access to anything that could help me take the edge off yet still be productive and in the moment, potentially such as cannabis (yet I want to do my own research first, then again, it's hard to like I illustrated above). No one to reach out to IRL. I'm flat broke. The list goes on. Only thing I have going for me is living along a suburban U.S. route where there are many shops and attractions accessible by walk.

Every time I tried to get out of the hole, I got sucked right back in, either because I fell into relapse or because a mistake scared me away. I can't keep going in this loop. I'm running out of time and I need to take action soon! Yet, I feel like life and society are one big clusterfuck, waiting to fuck me right in the ass until I bleed experience that doesn't even matter. I don't want to be part of a system, I don't want to deal with the grinding 9-5 life, I don't want to be another story of how I had to adjust my values and dreams to find 'stability', I don't want to be unable to branch out, for all my life. And for fucks sake, I don't want to be autistic. I need feedback on how to get out of this loop and take the first step, with limited resources. And before you tell me "oh, just consider more professional help" or the like -- I've done it, even when I thought it was pointless, just for the sake of being open minded. Didn't help. Also really trial-and-error, and there's only so much I can explore before the well of relevance runs dry.

And yeah, you might be looking for a TL;DR but I'm just too tired to make one right now. I spent half a week writing all this, by the way. I had serious trouble sleeping at night, trying to figure all this out and motivate myself to structure my thoughts into these paragraphs. I continue to have trouble sleeping consistently. I guess you could say this is a little insight into what my mind is like. I know this is long as fuck but I really wanted to get this out. So, to reiterate and expand upon the topic: How the fuck do I deal with existential crisis-like feelings and thoughts? Is it Autism? Am I just an unhealthy IN type? "Reality" and everything is driving me crazy. Read it, offer some insight, suggestions, advice, complain about this being TL;DR, call me a faggot, post this on 4chan, whatever. I'm just tired of this bullshit, and desperately trying to find a way out quick.

 

[OrLevitate]

I don't believe Autism is that arbitrary as people state it is.

the scary thing is that autism may have been the issue after all.

depression/anxiety/issues (or just autism, which is the worst case scenario)

depression/anxiety/issues (or autism, god forbid)

depression/anxiety/issues (or autism, I swear to fucking god)

depression/anxiety (or autism, kill me now)

Part of me sometimes feels like it's not because of my circumstances, but because of Autism. Then the anxiety deepens.

I evaluate every goddamn potential inability of mine and link it to whether or not autism is the root of my processing.

Like I mentioned, the autism possibility scares me.

If the worst case scenario comes to fruition -- that if I do have Autism

depression and anxiety (or autism, start decorating my grave)

Fuck autism!

I read the first few paragraphs then ctrl+f'd but I have no help to give you. You seem like the type that worries a lot. Maybe you're an autistophobe.

Maybe an autistic person can try to deduce whether or not you are autistic. I don't know anything about it.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

I read the first few paragraphs then ctrl+f'd but I have no help to give you.

Why didn't you just stop reading then?

 

[OrLevitate]

Cpl. Norman Fuller, who had come home two nights before from eighteen bleak months in Korea, waited on the porch outside Susanna's nest, with all the village watching.

Susanna had ordered him out while she changed, while she changed for her return to the human race. She had also called the express company and told them to bring her trunk back.

Fuller passed the time by stroking Susanna's cat. "Hello, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty," he said, over and over again. Saying "Kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty," numbed him like a merciful drug.

He was saying it when Susanna came out of her nest. He couldn't stop saying it, and she had to take the cat away from him, firmly, before she could get him to look at her, to offer his arm.

"So long, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty," said Fuller.

Susanna was barefoot, and she wore barbaric hoop ear-rings, and ankle bells. Holding Fuller's arm lightly, she led him down the stairs, and began her stately, undulating, titillating, tinkling walk past the liquor store, the insurance agency, the real-estate office, the diner, the American Legion post, and the church, to the crowded drugstore.

"Now, smile and be nice," said Susanna. "Show you're not ashamed of me."

"Mind if I smoke?" said Fuller.

"That's very considerate of you to ask," said Susanna. "No, I don't mind at all."

By steadying his right hand with his left, Corporal Fuller managed to light a cigar.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

Cpl. Norman Fuller, who had come home two nights before from eighteen bleak months in Korea, waited on the porch outside Susanna's nest, with all the village watching.

Susanna had ordered him out while she changed, while she changed for her return to the human race. She had also called the express company and told them to bring her trunk back.

Fuller passed the time by stroking Susanna's cat. "Hello, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty," he said, over and over again. Saying "Kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty," numbed him like a merciful drug.

He was saying it when Susanna came out of her nest. He couldn't stop saying it, and she had to take the cat away from him, firmly, before she could get him to look at her, to offer his arm.

"So long, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty," said Fuller.

Susanna was barefoot, and she wore barbaric hoop ear-rings, and ankle bells. Holding Fuller's arm lightly, she led him down the stairs, and began her stately, undulating, titillating, tinkling walk past the liquor store, the insurance agency, the real-estate office, the diner, the American Legion post, and the church, to the crowded drugstore.

"Now, smile and be nice," said Susanna. "Show you're not ashamed of me."

"Mind if I smoke?" said Fuller.

"That's very considerate of you to ask," said Susanna. "No, I don't mind at all."

By steadying his right hand with his left, Corporal Fuller managed to light a cigar.

Might as well link my post to 4chan or reddit/r/funny , then.

 

[OrLevitate]

Pi Ying rapped on the balustrade with his knuckles. "Without rules, my friend, games become nonsense. We agreed that all moves would be final, and so they are." He motioned to a servant. "King's knight to king's bishop six!" The servant moved the piece onto the square where Jerry stood. The bait was taken, the game was Colonel Kelly's from here on in.

"What is he talking about?" murmered Margaret.

"Why keep your wife in suspense, Colonel?" said Pi Ying. "Be a good husband and answer her question, or should I?"

"Your husband sacrificed a knight," said Barzov, his voice overriding Pi Ying's. "You've just lost your son." His expression was that of an experimenter, keen, expectant, entranced.

Kelly heard the choking sound in Margaret's throat, caught her as she fell. He rubbed her wrists. "Darling, please-- listen to me!" He shook her more roughly than he had intended. Her reaction was explosive. Words cascaded from her--hysterical babble condemning him. Kelly locked her wrists together in his hands and listened dumbly to her broken abuse.

 

[OrLevitate]

it's excerpts from "Welcome to the Monkey House". I was being a tool and throwing them at you. I want to say I understand what you're going through but I may not. You come off as a sensible and thoughtful, definitely contemplative individual. Those are good things for the world man, in my lackluster opinion.

 

[Coolydudey]

Writing all that out might be helpful for you, but if you want help from this (or any) forum condense it to four first paragraph lengths AT MOST and post it in the psychology (or perhaps philosophy) section. Then you should get a decent number of members reading it. Until then.... TL;DR

 

[onesteptwostep]

holy shit honey bunnies tl'dr

So, I've been mostly wasting time for the past 4 years. I am at a standstill. 20 years old, and never had a job, license, driver's permit, credit, and a really inconvenient support network (no friends, struggling family).

oh don't worry, people in their mid-twenties haven't gotten that far either~~

from the sounds of it you should join the military. the 'do or die' scenerio might be of good use to you, and get you out of that rump

 

[louiesgonnadie]

from the sounds of it you should join the military. the 'do or die' scenerio might be of good use to you, and get you out of that rump

If I have Aspergers, I probably can't join. I mean, I could lie, but surely they have ways of finding things out I'm assuming? Besides, that type of interaction and structure would be terrible for my anxiety right now.

 

[Anktark]

First, just to get this out of my system:

You flaccid imaginary friend gagging rank sheep biting ecumenically vague double blind trainspotting piles of frozen carbon diarrhea! I loathe all you TL;DR aficionados.

Now then, on topic and to OP:

Autism is not some highly contagious radioactive illness and definitely not the worst case scenario. From the information you shared I assume you have control over your motorics. It is just your thoughts running amok.

Let's say you do have autism. Now what?
Let's say you are just run of the mill fuck-up. Now what?

You might be somewhat happier to know which is it, but it doesn't seem to be relevant. So you might what to skip this step altogether.

As for difficulty learning and anxiety- are the subjects you are trying to educate yourself in interesting or required? Is there a subject you can just lose yourself in? Or maybe that's a wrong approach and crafts are more your thing? For career opportunities try and look for autonomous work with little human interaction (Cpt. Obvious over and out).

Rehearsing conversations beforehand is not that unusual from I heard.
Working out might help with your sleep schedule and reigning in the unruly mind. I suggest trying it for a while to see if it works.

Taking the first step- just do it. It will not be perfectly executed. Nothing in practice ever is. Don't be afraid to fail. You will fail many times regardless of your fear. If you are doing something creative and new then I advice you to fail faster. It's a bit counter intuitive, but it works. Trust me, I am a guy on the internet.


Finally, you seem like inquisitive, introspective and intuitive fellow. It doesn't matter if you are autistic- you are capable of rational though and can string a sentence together properly. That's an upper hand over a not so insignificant part of population (though I suppose that depends on where you live at the moment). The unruly thoughts are one of those problems you can ignore till it goes away.

 

[computerhxr]

You should get out more. Take a break from forced-reality and see what real-reality looks like.

 

[Minuend]

Dividing these topics into 2-3 ones would probably make things a bit easier to reply to.

How the fuck do I deal with existential crisis-like feelings and thoughts? Is it Autism?

These two could have their own threads. Some people will have pondered and found peace with the first part, others might have more extensive insight to the latter. Having experience and knowledge about both excludes a good chunk of repliers.

If you have autism, military sounds like a bad idea. If you get meltdowns, shutdowns or a sense of overload from sensory and mental stimuli, that would be a constant drain for you. In fact, around here people with asperger generally tend to work 60% or it gets "too much".

If you have autism, you need time to calm down. Having a place you can be alone or where it's at least quiet is important. Find out whether movement, sounds stresses you.

As for work, try to avoid customer service. Some quiet job where you can work with things and less people tends to be easier.

The chaos of thought can probably be reduced and calmed somewhat, though I don't know whether you can be entirely rid of it. Stress will make it worse. Both strong positive feelings and negative ones can make it chaotic and overloady with some people.

You might need to find new plans for your life. Which doesn't need to be a bad thing. There are a lot of ways to live your life apart from that one idea you've thought out. If worst case scenario you find yourself in work that you don't enjoy, you can still work the minimum you need to survive and spend your free time doing whatever you find interesting. And realize it doesn't mean that if you have a sucky job for a few years, you're stuck there forever. For instance. There is flexibility.

Overall, this issues will take time to calm. Finding some people you get along with and vent with helps most people.

Kinda difficult to whip out a good reply to that huge read. Here's a cat

 

[Yellow]

I'm sure I'm mirroring the previous replies, but after reading your post, I just don't have the energy to read anything more.

1. You do not have an ASD more severe than high-functioning Asperger's and I'm not even sure have that.

2. Being an Aspy is hardly the end of the world. It's not some degenerative disease. Most people with it embrace it as just another facet of their personality. In fact, I would encourage that outlook.

3. If you did have Asperger's, it would explain your issues transitioning from a teenage role to an adult role. either way, once you have your other issues under better control, I would suggest a life-coach.

4. You seem to have issues that are more pressing than mild Autism. Like anxiety and dysthymia. Medication doesn't have to be "the rest of your life". Sometimes your brain chemistry just needs a nudge in the right direction.

5. Family issues can be stressful for anyone at any time of life. You have to take a deep breath and wade through it (or take a vacation, you know, whatever seems best).

6. The younger you are, the bigger every crisis seems. Try to remind yourself that a year from now, you won't remember what you were worried about today. You will only remember what actually happened.

7. You are spreading your focus too thin. Pick one issue at a time. If getting a driver's license is important to you, go get it. If you want a job, start putting out applications. Going through the motions to complete concrete goals/achievements is a part of behavioral activation and can be your first step out of crisis mode.

8. Don't argue that #7 won't help. Just do it.

9. This is how you figure out if you're a "T". Turn that shit off for a few minutes. Take a break from your feelings, and process them one by one. If you can't, there's a fair chance that you're an "F" and now you know.

10. What Computerhxr said (it was short enough to read).

 

[louiesgonnadie]

First, just to get this out of my system:

You flaccid imaginary friend gagging rank sheep biting ecumenically vague double blind trainspotting piles of frozen carbon diarrhea! I loathe all you TL;DR aficionados.

ya thx

Autism is not some highly contagious radioactive illness and definitely not the worst case scenario.

Yeah, maybe not to you. That's because people have different values, different road maps. For me, where it fits into the mold of my ideal self, and life -- it's bad.

Let's say you do have autism. Now what?
Let's say you are just run of the mill fuck-up. Now what?

Yeah, like I implied -- next 15 years down the drain because of it? Done.

As for difficulty learning and anxiety- are the subjects you are trying to educate yourself in interesting or required? Is there a subject you can just lose yourself in? Or maybe that's a wrong approach and crafts are more your thing? For career opportunities try and look for autonomous work with little human interaction (Cpt. Obvious over and out).

Do I think they're interesting? Probably. Do I feel they're interesting? Usually not. Unless something clicks. Last thing that actually mattered that clicked: typology, a gateway to exploring psychology. I just hope it doesn't indicate lower intelligence capabilities or a poor information processing capacity/learning disability. I mean, wouldn't you have a hard time learning new information consistently with so much chaos going through your mind? For the past five years? Wouldn't you appear short-sighted and miss the essence of deeper things when your mind feels like it's going in some complex loop, with some constellation of issues roaming through your head, including the 'flavor of the month' you run into when you try to pop out of your withdrawals (engaging in the external world), and on top of all of that, when you encounter additional turbulence externally, including your home-life -- affecting nutrition?

I'm not sure if I can lose myself in anything that matters, only things that click with my imagination. Strategy games or first person shooters, for example. And no, it's not that I don't ever want to work with people...just right now, it's kind of reckless.

Rehearsing conversations beforehand is not that unusual from I heard.

But to the extent I do it? Like I said, it's the damn majority of my day.

It doesn't matter if you are autistic

It kind of does actually. It might just prevent me from ever having clean access to my true self. And that's a huge issue, if I want to live my ideal life.

The unruly thoughts are one of those problems you can ignore till it goes away.

I mean, how can I just ignore them when going out and doing things becomes a MAJOR trigger for them? Like I said I'm trying meditation to try and find some structure for my mind, but then my thoughts start reaching meta-territory. And that's bad.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

These two could have their own threads. Some people will have pondered and found peace with the first part, others might have more extensive insight to the latter. Having experience and knowledge about both excludes a good chunk of repliers.

I wasn't looking for people to tell me I was autistic or not, it was partly a rhetorical question, actually. I just need advice on how to ground myself with this chaos. I know some INTPs have had issues grounding themselves (though not experiencing the chaos I've had) because of how they cognize the world, so I thought this would be a good community to consult.

In fact, around here people with asperger generally tend to work 60% or it gets "too much".

So you're implying they're slow?

If you have autism, you need time to calm down.

I just don't have time for calming down, or like you implied, "recharging" in the sense that someone with autism typically does, retreating in their own little world for extended periods of time after engaging in the world. I don't want to live my life in withdrawal. What's the point then?

As for work, try to avoid customer service. Some quiet job where you can work with things and less people tends to be easier.

It's really hard to find a job that I might actually be able to get, that doesn't involve some practical socialization or communication. These are things that have driven me up the wall in the past because of my cursed-scatterbrain (which may or may not be permanent). My scarce work experience affects this, so I'll likely only land a cashiering job or the like -- something fast paced. Which is just fucking perfect. Any suggestions on what specific types of work might be tolerable in the state I'm in right now?

The chaos of thought can probably be reduced and calmed somewhat, though I don't know whether you can be entirely rid of it.

Do you think this goes for everyone or just a specific type of person?

You might need to find new plans for your life. Which doesn't need to be a bad thing. There are a lot of ways to live your life apart from that one idea you've thought out.

I'm okay with changing details of a script, but blowing everything up and starting clean slate because it's unattainable is the worst case scenario. The possibility that I can't reach that ideal platform of stability, that makes me depressed even more. The anxiety that I can't -- has led me deeper in my current state of depression. Imagine the state I'd be in if that becomes a reality? I don't mean the perfect life, just a solid wavelength of stability, where everything is generally okay. If I can't get there, why the fuck should I go on, if that's the catalyst for my issues? It's just not fair, I mean, it's my goddamn life. I didn't ask to be born, did I? The meaning of life is to live your meaning. Everything is pointless otherwise, there is no objectivity, ultimately. If I can't reach my meaning, why the fuck should I be part of a system, or something else, another catalyst?

Overall, this issues will take time to calm. Finding some people you get along with and vent with helps most people.

Yeah, and I have no one to talk to. Yeah, and you'll say "find some!" but really, how the hell can I effectively and consistently hold conversations and a certain character (which is the most common trigger for a friendship to bloom) when I have nothing interesting to talk about other then my problems? Add the self-consciousness filled social anxiety, and you have another major trigger.

Kinda difficult to whip out a good reply to that huge read. Here's a cat

I'm probably allergic to cats and certain pets. *itch*

 

[louiesgonnadie]

1. You do not have an ASD more severe than high-functioning Asperger's and I'm not even sure have that.

Then again, it's kind of hard to tell through text.

2. Being an Aspy is hardly the end of the world. It's not some degenerative disease. Most people with it embrace it as just another facet of their personality. In fact, I would encourage that outlook.

Again, I explained why it conflicted with my values above. Maybe for you it wouldn't be such an issue, maybe you're pursuing a less adventurous or dynamic lifestyle. And actually, self identification with a brain disorder can actually be dangerous. Go on wrongplanet and browse a few threads, then you'll see why. Deluding oneself is for some people, IMO only hermits can make productive use out of it.

3. If you did have Asperger's, it would explain your issues transitioning from a teenage role to an adult role. either way, once you have your other issues under better control, I would suggest a life-coach.

Yeah, but anyone can have issues transitioning when they experience poverty and family abuse for more than five years, develop coping mechanisms for dealing with that, then subconsciously use those coping mechanisms to deal with other issues such as having issues transitioning back into school, which helps them daydream their educational years away, and lead to major depression and anxiety, which lead to a withdrawn state. In other words, people with aspergers often have difficulty transitioning but that reason vs depression/anxiety/neglect issues look similar at face value. But what you explain, again, is the worst case scenario.

This might sound ridiculous, but I'd rather go solo for now. Like, it's not like I've actually attempted to take charge of my life, so I'd rather gauge whether or not my issues are severe enough to do so, which probably explains some disability I might have. I don't want to lump myself into such a mold when my issues externally branching out might not be to the extent where I don't have control. I think CBT is all I need right now.

Plus, if I were to do that, it would be another trigger for my depression and anxiety. That's just me though. If you want to call me a feeler for that, go ahead. Doesn't matter.

Medication doesn't have to be "the rest of your life". Sometimes your brain chemistry just needs a nudge in the right direction.

Well yeah, but I don't want to 'rely' on it either. After all, addiction probably runs in my father's side -- my grandfather was a gambling addict, and of course, my father became lost in adderall.

Family issues can be stressful for anyone at any time of life. You have to take a deep breath and wade through it (or take a vacation, you know, whatever seems best).

Yeah man, I do this every day. The end result is nothing productive getting done.

6. The younger you are, the bigger every crisis seems.

True, but I think this point is not as relevant considering what I've been through, and what I could potentially go through.

7. You are spreading your focus too thin. Pick one issue at a time. If getting a driver's license is important to you, go get it. If you want a job, start putting out applications. Going through the motions to complete concrete goals/achievements is a part of behavioral activation and can be your first step out of crisis mode.

I don't understand. You say I'm spreading my focus too thin, yet you imply that I'm worrying on multiple subjects at once? I've tried to focus on smaller goals so I think I have that going for me, but the problem is finding consistency in motivation. For example, I tried working on my resume and finding volunteer work this summer. I just kept getting signs that it wouldn't work out in the moment, so I just folded.

8. Don't argue that #7 won't help. Just do it.

I get your point, but at the same time don't you think it's a little reckless to just start attempting when you have so much chaos going on? So consciously aware of everything that you do, which is linked to anxiety?

9. This is how you figure out if you're a "T". Turn that shit off for a few minutes. Take a break from your feelings, and process them one by one. If you can't, there's a fair chance that you're an "F" and now you know.

Depression and anxiety and not feelings, at least in my case -- they are cognitive disorders that can develop regardless of one's Jungian type. To imply that one is a feeler if one is heavily influenced by certain states is certainly not even scraping the surface when trying to determine the main functions of one's ego. Obviously the ego can be distorted in such a consistently depressive and anxious state. So no, this wouldn't make me a feeler, sorry.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

You should get out more. Take a break from forced-reality and see what real-reality looks like.

What if "real-reality" is a more dangerous trigger?

 

[louiesgonnadie]

And yeah, I know it sounds like I'm arguing to the point where I'm not listening, but I'm just finding inconsistencies between advice and my situation, so I'm just addressing them so I can improve understanding. I'm eager to put feedback into action, any feedback I feel is relevant.

 

[Minuend]

So you're implying they're slow?

What do you mean by slow? It's probably a word that could used about certain aspects of the autism of some.

What I meant, though, is that there's a lot of stress involved by trying to maintain a normal life. The stress builds and becomes too much. One could get difficulties with meltdowns, shutdowns, depression, anxiety.

I just don't have time for calming down, or like you implied, "recharging" in the sense that someone with autism typically does, retreating in their own little world for extended periods of time after engaging in the world. I don't want to live my life in withdrawal. What's the point then?

Why don't you have time? Setting aside some time to cam down is probably healthy to all people.

I guess you might not be particularly introverted? There is value to be had in spending time alone. Either reading, playing videogames, meditating, exercising or whatever one wants to engulf oneself into. You're also turning "having some time" to "living in withdrawal".

It's really hard to find a job that I might actually be able to get, that doesn't involve some practical socialization or communication. These are things that have driven me up the wall in the past because of my cursed-scatterbrain (which may or may not be permanent). My scarce work experience affects this, so I'll likely only land a cashiering job or the like -- something fast paced. Which is just fucking perfect. Any suggestions on what specific types of work might be tolerable in the state I'm in right now?

I said less people, not none people. Factory work, night shifts of some sort, perhaps. Some countries have programs to help people who need a bit of alternative work due to disability, illness etc.

Do you think this goes for everyone or just a specific type of person?

There are extreme cases where one loses control of ones mind entirely or where one doesn't posses the ability to comprehend enough to steer ones brain toward a more productive direction.

In your case, I believe you can to an impactful degree reduce the chaos. But it's not easy, and it does take time. It does require you to pay more attention to how you react in various situation and find ways to channel your anxieties into something else. Maybe manage your diet and exercise more harshly. Realizing when you have to do something, and when you need to relax and stop.
I know of a person who has been able to do this to a very drastic degree and who depend on it to be able to function. It takes a lot, but it is possible.

I also know that when you become able to manage some parts of your life, some of the chaos will lessen with an increased feeling of security and mastering.

There are also meds that can reduce this hyper thinking. Cirpalex (not addictive) helped for me, but I might have experienced more negative long term effects from it, so I would recommend trying to gain control without them. But I do not regret taking them, as they removed the worst anxiety and obsessive thinking.

I did read way back then that cipralex wasn't as effective with males. They responded better to something else which I can't remember but that you would be better off reading up on if it was an alternative.

I'm okay with changing details of a script, but blowing everything up and starting clean slate because it's unattainable is the worst case scenario. The possibility that I can't reach that ideal platform of stability, that makes me depressed even more. The anxiety that I can't -- has led me deeper in my current state of depression. Imagine the state I'd be in if that becomes a reality? I don't mean the perfect life, just a solid wavelength of stability, where everything is generally okay. If I can't get there, why the fuck should I go on, if that's the catalyst for my issues? It's just not fair, I mean, it's my goddamn life. I didn't ask to be born, did I? The meaning of life is to live your meaning. Everything is pointless otherwise, there is no objectivity, ultimately. If I can't reach my meaning, why the fuck should I be part of a system, or something else, another catalyst?

It will be painful, but you can adapt. After the worst disappointment, you can start focusing what you can do, not what you can't.

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to get some stability, though. Would that be because of autism, or something else? I can't remember everything from the first post down to the detail.

Yeah, and I have no one to talk to. Yeah, and you'll say "find some!" but really, how the hell can I effectively and consistently hold conversations and a certain character (which is the most common trigger for a friendship to bloom) when I have nothing interesting to talk about other then my problems? Add the self-consciousness filled social anxiety, and you have another major trigger.

You sound like the average person I meet online. Hell, I'm part of chat groups filled with people like that. Personally I started by making friends on this forum. I also know of a few weird, outcast people who made good friends on chat groups they found on 4chan. The most difficult part is finding a place with enough interesting weirdos.

Well, alternatively, you could find a forum to vent. It might help some even if you don't establish a more personal connection with anyone.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

What do you mean by slow? It's probably a word that could used about certain aspects of the autism of some.

Slow in processing certain information.

What I meant, though, is that there's a lot of stress involved by trying to maintain a normal life. The stress builds and becomes too much. One could get difficulties with meltdowns, shutdowns, depression, anxiety.

Exactly, so now you understand my dilemma. Not that I want a normal life (no such thing as "normal" in that sense as it's objectified, culturally mandated bullshit) but eventually everyone has to take advantage of the system in order to get what they want, no matter how they go about it. If I am unable to take advantage effectively, for those reasons you stated, that's a huge problem.

Why don't you have time? Setting aside some time to cam down is probably healthy to all people.

I mean in the autistic sense. Otherwise, I'm fine with it. I view typical recharging/alone time as a positive thing actually. Just, in an autistic sense, it's often hard to naturally draw the line between too 'little' and too 'much'. Then again, I think depression and anxiety can mirror that -- just the difference is, a natural process in the mind versus a triggered, developed process in the mind.

I guess you might not be particularly introverted? There is value to be had in spending time alone. Either reading, playing videogames, meditating, exercising or whatever one wants to engulf oneself into. You're also turning "having some time" to "living in withdrawal".

Don't really think it has anything to do with how I cognize, but I certainly do enjoy alone time.

I said less people, not none people.

I meant permanently. Then again, it's not like I'd need a degree of socialization for everything I do, so I guess it doesn't matter.

Cirpalex (not addictive) helped for me, but I might have experienced more negative long term effects from it

I'm just curious, what might have been these effects?

Would that be because of autism, or something else? I can't remember everything from the first post down to the detail.

Well yeah, considering that autism is a cognitive disability and if I had it, it would have to illustrate why I can't comprehend or experience a certain process to the point where it causes stress in my life.

 

[crippli]

All of this reminds me that it wasn't like I had a choice to come into this world. I mean, it is my life -- why is it selfish to be in complete control of it? After all, Bill Hicks said "It's just a ride" -- to put this analogy in a different perspective, would you want to be stuck on the ferris wheel when you're afraid of heights? Compare that to my worst case scenario. See the connection? If the worst case scenario comes to fruition -- that if I do have Autism, and if it prevents me from reaching a positive platform in my life where my values are reached, then why the fuck should I keep living?

No, I don't see the connection. Explain further!

Everyone is Autistic. A diagnose is just that one may be a bit more autistic then average. Even so, it's just one persons subjective opinion from a pseudo scientific field. Kinda similar to religion. Meaning, it's validity depends if you believe. A psychologist will make their best attempt to make one believe what they say. Otherwise what is the point with their existence if they only spout babble. So they will believe they are saying stuff that is relevant. As will ha priest.

I'm not going to advice you to believe or not believe. Probably one need to believe in somethings.

 

[Black Rose]

Slow in processing certain information.

If autism is about having a lopsided development of different regions have you tried to find out what they are in your situation to even them out? With me mediation is also difficult because of lack of clarity. With meditation it should be that it brings clarity. I have been listening to music on a deep level instead of siting doing nothing. Mantra meditation gives you an object of focus for me music. What is it that most takes away your anxiety, use that as the focus object. Listen to the object that brings clarity allow the tension in the amygdala to settle into that object.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

No, I don't see the connection. Explain further!

It was an analogy. There is a connection between my worst case scenario and having a bad experience on a rollercoaster because they are both bad experiences, and my analogy just played off of Bill Hicks' metaphor.

Everyone is Autistic. A diagnose is just that one may be a bit more autistic then average. Even so, it's just one persons subjective opinion from a pseudo scientific field. Kinda similar to religion. Meaning, it's validity depends if you believe. A psychologist will make their best attempt to make one believe what they say. Otherwise what is the point with their existence if they only spout babble. So they will believe they are saying stuff that is relevant. As will ha priest.

Your point is faulty. I see the connection you are making but it doesn't add up. Psychology is based off of observation while religion is based off of faith. One is rational while other is irrational, in the most simplistic aspect. As you say it's a subjective opinion, but it is the subjective opinion of many others which has evolved as time went on, which logically speaking, makes such an observation more accurate and dynamic. Your main point: "it's validity depends if you believe" is only looking at it from one angle; it can depend on many different factors, mainly on how consistent the doctors opinion is with the essence of your situation.

I'm not going to advice you to believe or not believe. Probably one need to believe in somethings.

Critical thinking is important.

 

[onesteptwostep]

If I have Aspergers, I probably can't join. I mean, I could lie, but surely they have ways of finding things out I'm assuming? Besides, that type of interaction and structure would be terrible for my anxiety right now.

You can lie, get in, and then get free medication and treatment if it's a big deal. Military is great for things like that.

 

[Minuend]

Exactly, so now you understand my dilemma. Not that I want a normal life (no such thing as "normal" in that sense as it's objectified, culturally mandated bullshit) but eventually everyone has to take advantage of the system in order to get what they want, no matter how they go about it. If I am unable to take advantage effectively, for those reasons you stated, that's a huge problem.

Depending on how hard you're hit, it's still possible to be able to do a lot of things.

I don't know what your plans entail, but it's possible to get some management. Disregarding things like the job market, having a job should be possible. It just needs to be the right kind.

If you want to study, that might be more difficult because of concentration, organizing and sensory overload. Though, perhaps something could be worked out, for instance you taking fewer subjects and spend longer time getting there.

You don't have to do everything right now, at once. Like you said, take small steps. Pick one thing in your life and try to do something with that. Things are messy now, but that doesn't mean they will be forever. You are only 20, people change jobs, educate themselves, etc at twice that age and beyond. And if you have to take things slower and spend more time on them, that doesn't have to be a crisis.

I mean in the autistic sense. Otherwise, I'm fine with it. I view typical recharging/alone time as a positive thing actually. Just, in an autistic sense, it's often hard to naturally draw the line between too 'little' and too 'much'. Then again, I think depression and anxiety can mirror that -- just the difference is, a natural process in the mind versus a triggered, developed process in the mind.

It's something that can be learned to understand better. One needs to start observing those processes and realize when things are too much or too little. With time the identification becomes more automatic.

I'm just curious, what might have been these effects?

I suspect they pushed some food sensitivity over the edge. Now I can't eat too often, too much or the wrong foods as my stomach will stop function properly. It's manageable, but can be frustrating at times. I'm also moving towards being underweight because of it. Though, times of excitement because of, for instance, videogames makes me eat less also.

When I was on meds, my partner did say I was more heavily detached and distant. Being a lot of depressiony and brainfoggy over the years that period wasn't noticeable to me in that way. He also said I was emotionally unavailable to a larger degree.

Well yeah, considering that autism is a cognitive disability and if I had it, it would have to illustrate why I can't comprehend or experience a certain process to the point where it causes stress in my life.

All people have blind spots. The blind spots will be less with some people. I know quite a few people with asperger; In terms of being able to understand reality, autism doesn't necessarily hinder it. You have people with asperger with varying degree of insight and capability of understanding.

An intelligent asperger will still be able to comprehend aspects of reality which a normal averaged person will not. Even though there's usually problems with, example, picking up on social cues, there are ways to understand people that relies on other mechanisms. In some cases, the alternative system can enable one to understand people more intently than normal people do. Doing it real time might pose some difficulty- energy draining and difficulties responding in time. But the understanding will be there.

What I'm trying to say is your intellectual abilities are still there.

If you are missing out on some things you are unable to experience, which ones do you regret not being able to?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

And yeah, I know it sounds like I'm arguing to the point where I'm not listening, but I'm just finding inconsistencies between advice and my situation, so I'm just addressing them so I can improve understanding. I'm eager to put feedback into action, any feedback I feel is relevant.

I still would say you're currently in a de-constructive, inactive mode of thinking that is the primary cause in holding you back. Chemical imbalances and neurological disorders are not to be overlooked but there are certain practical steps you can take to help your external situation. But you have to focus your willpower on making those first steps to transition into a more goal-oriented, active mode of thinking.

Fortunately you're not the first person to be depressed, to have anxiety, to have ASD, to have family issues, to be a late bloomer etc there are people with experience and training and there are programs specifically designed to help. My advice is more in line with Yellow:

Break down your whole story into separate parts and identify each obstacle, each goal you'd like to accomplish. Work on the little and simpler goals first and make your way up to the larger complex ones. After what I've read I would say your first step is to stop frequenting typology boards, it's not healthy for you. The second step is to apply for government aid including money and other benefits. Somewhere along the line a life coach or strong involvement in a practical support group is needed.

Motivation is another tough aspect considering everyone is different, but you have to believe in yourself. That this is what you want and that you have the power to do it.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

Fortunately you're not the first person to be depressed, to have anxiety, to have ASD, to have family issues, to be a late bloomer etc there are people with experience and training and there are programs specifically designed to help.

Sometimes realizing this sucks though because there are older people who experience these that give you insight on how you may experience the future, based on their circumstances. I guess you could say just focus on the positive outcomes, but it's kind of 50/50.

After what I've read I would say your first step is to stop frequenting typology boards, it's not healthy for you.

What did you read that indicated this and why do you think it's unhealthy?

The second step is to apply for government aid including money and other benefits. Somewhere along the line a life coach or strong involvement in a practical support group is needed.

I'm just going to reiterate what I said before on the matter:

This might sound ridiculous, but I'd rather go solo for now. Like, it's not like I've actually attempted to take charge of my life, so I'd rather gauge whether or not my issues are severe enough to do so, which probably explains some disability I might have. I don't want to lump myself into such a mold when my issues externally branching out might not be to the extent where I don't have control. I think CBT is all I need right now. Though I have considered support groups.

Plus, if I were to take government agency support, it would be another trigger for my depression and anxiety. That's just me though. Maybe that makes me a feeler, maybe it doesn't.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

Depending on how hard you're hit, it's still possible to be able to do a lot of things.

True, but the stress takes away from the experiences because Autism is ultimately an internal process. That's no way to live.

I don't know what your plans entail, but it's possible to get some management. Disregarding things like the job market, having a job should be possible. It just needs to be the right kind.

I guess if you want to get more specific, when I say I want a more dynamic lifestyle, I mean an ideal relationship, traveling, taking charge of hobbies, ones that I'm aware of and others that I've yet to discover, and maintaining inner peace (which comes strongly from imagination contrasted with reality). From what I've observed, a dynamic lifestyle is difficult for someone with autism. I think the last one is attainable even if I am autistic, but the others might be hazier.

If you want to study, that might be more difficult because of concentration, organizing and sensory overload. Though, perhaps something could be worked out, for instance you taking fewer subjects and spend longer time getting there.

I mean, fuck taking a longer time. That destroys the point of the life I'm trying to create. I can't waste any more time, I can't waste my younger years like this. If it takes a longer time to process things normal functioning people can, fuck it. If that breeds stress, what's the damn point? I just want a happy and peaceful life doing the things I desire.

You are only 20, people change jobs, educate themselves, etc at twice that age and beyond.

I have different values and am more future-oriented than some people.

And if you have to take things slower and spend more time on them, that doesn't have to be a crisis.

Again, that is not the point of my life.

It's something that can be learned to understand better. One needs to start observing those processes and realize when things are too much or too little. With time the identification becomes more automatic.

Yes and no. It's not a natural process, it might be able to operate automatically after several repetitions, but only from rote memory. It's not a natural experience.

All people have blind spots. The blind spots will be less with some people. I know quite a few people with asperger; In terms of being able to understand reality, autism doesn't necessarily hinder it. You have people with asperger with varying degree of insight and capability of understanding.

An intelligent asperger will still be able to comprehend aspects of reality which a normal averaged person will not. Even though there's usually problems with, example, picking up on social cues, there are ways to understand people that relies on other mechanisms. In some cases, the alternative system can enable one to understand people more intently than normal people do. Doing it real time might pose some difficulty- energy draining and difficulties responding in time. But the understanding will be there.

What I'm trying to say is your intellectual abilities are still there.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree here. You're right that everyone is limited in some way but obviously when you compare just personal preferences to how the brain is wired a certain way and how that starts interfering with how they are experiencing the world, it becomes a problem -- so your point becomes irrelevant. I don't think autism has anything to do with comprehending life, it just has to do with how they experience it -- which in more problematic situations does kind of interfere with how they comprehend it. And obviously autism doesn't have anything to do with determining someone's intellectual capabilities, just sometimes their issues can interfere with accessing it fully. Their external manifestations might look a certain way at face value which is 'functional', but it becomes much deeper; again autism is an internal process and starts that way. The reasons you state here are observations of my hypothesis that autism is a different wavelength of processing information. And of course normal people are each different too so even though, for example, a person with aspergers might make some connections from several repetitions of understanding someone interpersonally, obviously normal people could too -- just naturally.

If you are missing out on some things you are unable to experience, which ones do you regret not being able to?

I'm still young so I don't really have any regrets so far, but if the worst case scenario comes to fruition, the ones I listed above; the things I want to do with my life (which is basically the platform of stability I desire).

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Sometimes realizing this sucks though because there are older people who experience these that give you insight on how you may experience the future, based on their circumstances. I guess you could say just focus on the positive outcomes, but it's kind of 50/50.

It's 100/0. Knowing what's the worst case scenario means you can only be evermore prepared to deal with circumstances.

What did you read that indicated this and why do you think it's unhealthy?

Typology is full of uncertainty and it is not helping you. Getting lost in these experimental ideas to understand yourself is a huge distraction from actual progress.

I'm just going to reiterate what I said before on the matter:

This might sound ridiculous, but I'd rather go solo for now. Like, it's not like I've actually attempted to take charge of my life, so I'd rather gauge whether or not my issues are severe enough to do so, which probably explains some disability I might have. I don't want to lump myself into such a mold when my issues externally branching out might not be to the extent where I don't have control. I think CBT is all I need right now. Though I have considered support groups.

Plus, if I were to take government agency support, it would be another trigger for my depression and anxiety. That's just me though. Maybe that makes me a feeler, maybe it doesn't.

It doesn't matter that you are uncertain of how severe your situation is. What matters is that there are feasible paths to improving your situation and that they are available to you.

You have to get out of this mindset of searching for what you think you should do and get into the mindset of doing what you know you can do. You said yourself that you are desperate, well desperate doesn't speculate.

• You know that if you applied for government aid you will be provided with funds.
• You know that you can use those funds to pay for a permit and driving lessons.
• You know that career centers will teach you skills and provide you with job leads.
• You know that you can use your funds for transportation and for a career-ready appearance/attire for job interviews.
• You know that if you register for a disability you will be provided appropriate treatment/resources to even up your performance at school, work etc.

These are just some of what you can get started on right away.



One more thing I overlooked before, you said you stopped taking your prescriptions. I would strongly advise speaking with your doctor about the health impacts of this.

 

[crippli]

For the practical set up, ESCs schematics sounds sound. I think ASPs will do better with being provided resources and work their way from there. Less of the regular nonsense that will be appropriate for neurotypicals.

It was an analogy. There is a connection between my worst case scenario and having a bad experience on a rollercoaster because they are both bad experiences, and my analogy just played off of Bill Hicks' metaphor.



Your point is faulty. I see the connection you are making but it doesn't add up. Psychology is based off of observation while religion is based off of faith. One is rational while other is irrational, in the most simplistic aspect. As you say it's a subjective opinion, but it is the subjective opinion of many others which has evolved as time went on, which logically speaking, makes such an observation more accurate and dynamic. Your main point: "it's validity depends if you believe" is only looking at it from one angle; it can depend on many different factors, mainly on how consistent the doctors opinion is with the essence of your situation.

I'd say it's at least 50% imagination. There are not that many tools to work out accurate psychology. Rigorous studies help on this. Psychology is not tied down with the same challenging criteria as hard science.

Regarding my main point. You wrote "consistent the doctors opinion". Well. That reads to me as similar perspective to what I wrote, as an opinion is not a fact.

Critical thinking is important.

Important only in terms of efficiency. And efficiency requires to not apply critical thinking when it is not appropriate. Efficiency as a whole will usually be maximized through transformations. Go slow where that is required, fast when that is required. Therefor critical thinking may equally degrade upon a situation, as it may improve upon it.

An aspect to consider is that most of the people around you may literary be partly a different species. You, if this article is correct have to learn their language, their whatever. Review the qualities in this article. I think a lot of this is quite interesting.
http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm

You may be remains of an ancient and extinct race, that interbred with humans.

ASP and INTP have a strong correlation. Theories have also been produced that the INTP is the one furthest removed from the base human, ESFJ.


Note:These are hypotheses. It's all semi related to your worst case scenario, of having ASP. That I do not understand, why that is a worst case scenario? May not be particularly suited for today's social sphere. That sphere isn't going to last, maybe it wont burst in our lifetime, but it will burst. If ASP traits where not valuable, it would have been breed out long ago. The parting gift from the fallen ancient race.



Here are some proposals for work if you need something to do. I do not know if this article is accurate, maybe some of it is.
http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2011/03/aspergers-traits-that-come-in-handy-on.html

 

[louiesgonnadie]

Typology is full of uncertainty and it is not helping you. Getting lost in these experimental ideas to understand yourself is a huge distraction from actual progress.

What if it's just a hobby of mine?

 

[OrLevitate]

It's enough, enough
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes, I saw the sign
Life is demanding without understanding
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes, I saw the sign
No one's gonna drag you up to get into the light where you belong
But where do you belong?
I, under the clear moon for so many years
I've wondered who you are
How could a person like you bring me joy?
Under the pale moon where I see a lot of stars
It's enough, enough

 

[louiesgonnadie]

What is it that most takes away your anxiety, use that as the focus object. Listen to the object that brings clarity allow the tension in the amygdala to settle into that object.

God damn, you know thinking about it I really don't know. Perhaps the sense of accomplishment, being of the belief that I am not insane (and yes, that's condensed). But even with this, I still have the racing thoughts and feelings of needing to rush through everything because it's so damn close. I guess you could say I experience many types of anxiety? Ugh. Even with the meditation, I just feel like I'm pressing pause. Maybe the closest thing is playing strategy games but those are outlets to stimulate my mind; after I'm done it often seems like my mind is refreshed and ready to start up the anxiety again. Which rears it's head in many different ways.

Music is awful for it, though I love it. That's bad.

 

[Black Rose]

it seems you need to practice doing something slow. A rhythm.
i had the problem of anticipation of needing to do something which caused anxiety
when this happens now i start paying attention to my environment to relax
i also am now beginning to visualize colors when i close my eyes
i suggest that when you feel the need to do something or think thoughts pause and notice then introspect a calm inner space that localizes your thoughts. if they have a position you can look at the space around it and disperse awareness into the environment.

 

[Bock]

OP sounds like me, sometimes to an eerie degree. Can't say i have any good advice though, i'm 25 now and my existence is a bad joke. I'm definitely not autistic but i'm far closer to that end of the spectrum than the neurotypical one. Can't even be bothered to go into family stuff, too much shit.

95% NEET for the last few years, burned most if not all bridges and i've developed pretty severe social phobia and anxiety in general. Those issues has pretty much always been present but not to this degree. I consume inhumane (well not really inhumane, but it sounds cool [no it doesn't]) amounts of caffeine in a pathethic effort to try to deal with the constant mindfog/chaos and utter lack of energy/motivation.

Tried three different antidepressants (bupropion, escitalopram and venlafaxine) and none worked, for various reasons (what a suprise...). Benzo:s doesn't help at all, i need motivation/energy/lust, not a sledgehammer to my head.

I have very low testosterone levels for some reason, my doc seems to think it's fine though (you pretty much have to grow tits to get TRT over here).

I guess i just hijacked your thread. Maybe i'll be of more help after some caffeine...

 

[QuickTwist]

I want to post in this thread, but will adhere to the OPs directions of "if you don't read everything, don't make a post."

 

[louiesgonnadie]

I want to post in this thread, but will adhere to the OPs directions of "if you don't read everything, don't make a post."

Thanks.

 

[cheese]

My impression:
The thing getting in the way of your life satisfaction is the racing thoughts and lack of energy. "Autism" is a red herring. It's a by-product of your anxiety - if you have it, it's not what will stop you from leading a satisfied life, this problem with your thoughts is. All this arguing around the subject and how it will affect your life is a fantasy and is what is *actually affecting your life*.

Also, you're choosing acceptable realities from a very limited experience. You don't know whether certain lives would actually be unacceptable to you unless you've lived them. Things are experienced very differently in reality compared to the imagination + anxiety. You're drawing your data from fantasy and other people's stories - and when they put their stories into words, sure it sounds bad, it sounds like they've had to settle for limitations. But remember they're just words. They can't transmit their internal/lived experience to you unless they go into great detail about what each moment of lived experience feels like, the way you did. Instead they use catch-alls like 'happy', 'worth living' etc which you will process through your particular set of criteria vs the circumstances of their life - forgetting that everything worth experiencing in life is experienced internally, and you don't know what each moment feels like to them and how it connects in significance to every other moment they've felt. It's the same thing you're doing with Imaginary Future You - yes they're sort of you, but you don't have access to how it feels to be-you-in-that-context, with all the added years of experience in between. You only have imaginings of circumstances which you compare to how you feel now, and how you feel now is shit about everything. You have a thousand arguments, you'll probably want to throw statistics at this, you'll talk about how we can predict certain things in life with a high degree of accuracy - you have a million ways to argue against anything. But you're just grappling with words - not reality.

This constant battle is what is keeping you from everything in your life, because it generates so much tension you're in constant need of 'taking the edge off', so any other goal is impossible to focus on. It's not autism that'll definitely make your life suck - it's your anxiety. It's making it so you're unable to do anything. You need to accept that your thoughts are a symptom, and not reality. When you deal with the anxiety, and the thoughts slip away, and you start to build up a bank of 'good experiences', you'll be surprised at how many of the arguments drop away, or become more nuanced; some things you thought mattered and were impossible to live happily without will cease to matter at all.

Whenever I try to learn something, I get into this hyper-conscious and almost manic state where I'm like "Okay, let's fuckin' do this! Okay, that's interesting. Wait, what the fuck does that mean? I'll google what "derived" means. Okay. Let's read more. Okay, what the fuck? That reminds me of my cousin, didn't she say something like that example of people like that illustrated? Why am I not even that close with my cousin anyway? *hypothetical social situation pops into my head* *start telling off my cousin, aunts and uncles, going into this intellectual rage* Wait, is it just aspergers? *go back on reddit's sub for aspergers* Okay fuck this, I'm playing GTA." Or some shit. I always get thrown into this loop whenever I confront what matters, and end up going back to what doesn't matter, because I simply stress the fuck out and end up getting way too distracted by hypotheticals derived from what I am reading. It might just be anxiety mentally preparing myself. I have no idea how to get out of this loop.

You need to find a way of self-soothing, so these thoughts stop controlling your mood (which in turn controls your life, which feeds into your thoughts about self and your mood, etc). So far you're using gaming, which over time is counter-productive as you recognise it's taking time away - thus making it an added source of stress when not using it, compounding the problem, and creating more reliance on it. (However, I think some of the anxiety around this is itself simply anxiety.)

It sounds like you're experiencing a lot of conclusion-leaping. Your mind leaps ahead to a conclusion then in a split second fills in an argument which appears to justify it (but often doesn't really). Try to catch yourself when this happens. It looks like you've done this already but your mind has then leaped ahead again, and you've been caught up in the anxiety-panic of feeling out of control. That's normal when you're in the grip of something. Just keep catching it; it'll keep trying to slip out of your grasp, but eventually you'll get better at recognising it and stop it before it happens. When you start intellectual-raging for instance - the emotion is a sign that something's up. Here's how it would typically go down for me: When you start recognising that 'something's up', you'll probably feel stressed by that and try unnecessarily hard to lock it down. Then you'll get pissed at yourself for trying too hard and making it worse. Then you'll get distracted with your red-herring fear (Asperger's). Replay the whole cycle a few times, and add a few random irrelevant thoughts scattered throughout just to piss you off and make you feel out of control. The out-of-control feeling triggers the need to be soothed, which your brain knows from past experience comes from gaming. So you game. Don't worry; you can stop your brain at any of these points. You don't have to rely on being soothed by games. You just have to learn to recognise that you are not the web your mind creates. You can choose to be part of it, or not. That's what meditation is about. The key, as in life, is to always return to the task.

Spoiler

One thing that's helped me is to focus on breathing. I know you've tried that and felt it useless, because you couldn't focus. You're not meant to be able to focus right off the bat. Being crazily distracted is normal. The key is to keep re-focusing. Recognise when you are no longer focused. With every thought/feeling you have, refocus on the breath. You can do this by concentrating on the feel of your breath against your nostrils. You may even need to do this every half-second, but that's ok. Take deep long breaths, in and out. Do it for at least a few minutes, till you start to see change. Feelings and thoughts, urges and passions and rages will rise up and go. Over time, you'll separate the thoughts in your mind from what *you* are able to do. When you learn to do this, you'll be able to self-soothe. It gives you the space you need during your train of thought, allowing you to see it clearly.

When you first recognise something's up, don't think your way out of it. You're in an emotional state. Calm the emotional state by self-soothing, separate yourself from your thoughts, and when you're ready, have a look again. Get used to noticing your mind instead of being caught up in it.
When you fail to stop the anxiety-train because you're trying too hard: Let go, feel the anxiety, then self-soothe.
When you get pissed off because you failed: Feel the anger, don't fight it, self-soothe.
When you get to your red-herring fear: Accept that it may be true, feel the anxiety try to choke you, self-soothe. Then accept that it may be true again and see if you feel any different.
When you have an irrelevant thought: It's ok, let it happen, self-soothe.
When you get anxious about self-soothing, worrying if you're doing it too much/wrong/worried you'll make a mistake/etcetcetc: Recognise it's anxiety, don't fight it, self-soothe.
When you feel resistance because all this self-soothing is bullshit and nothing will ever help you: Recognise you don't know that for sure, and try the self-soothing anyway. Give it a few minutes.
When you feel particularly overwhelmed and fuck this breathing shit because I'm losing my fucking mind: self-soothe. Keep returning to the task.

Breathing may not necessarily work for you. I don't actually know. I know it worked excellently for me, and suspect if it doesn't for others they haven't found something to focus on about the breathing. For me, concentrating on the physical sensation of the breath hitting my nostrils, and taking really deep, slow breaths, and exhaling slowly was sufficient.

Another thing which has helped is focusing on exactly how the fear feels in my body. This might be helpful for you just generally since you mentioned you're not aware of what's going on in your body. Maybe you need to jumpstart it by pinching yourself. If you feel that, you can feel your body. Then try to tense and relax different areas of the body at will. You'll probably be getting plenty distracted but that's ok, just keep returning to the task. You should build up some awareness over time. I think it will help for you. When you start being able to feel exactly where the emotion is in your body, you can work on other things.

Btw, in my experience the "hypothetical scenario" generator is a big cause for slip-ups in thinking and anxiety.

Spoiler

It's a form of that conclusion-leaping I talked about. A hypothetical scenario can operate as a question or an answer. As a question, it makes your brain answer, usually in emotional ways (eg how you responded - by raging at your family members). As an answer, it's usually an immediate and unchecked response to something your brain is thinking about, and usually emotional in nature. The emotion allows it to sidestep your rational processing, putting it into your memory/learning centre as 'true' - especially as your thoughts are slightly manic and everything is happening very fast. You then remember it as 'true' with deep certainty regardless of whether you checked it for accuracy, and it informs other hypothetical scenarios.

I'm guessing from what you've described and the way you write in general that you've got a lot of questions and answers all over the place, and the emotion of them all is causing you to be unable to process them all sufficiently - which usually makes them pop up even faster as they sort of generate/lead on to each other. All of this is adding to your anxiety. The Asperger's thing for instance - every thing you think is now operating as a question to which "Asperger's" is the answer, but because you're a naturally questioning/suspicious person who desires clarity, that then operates as a question as well ("is it really the answer?"), which leads you down several different paths, all of which branch out into their own issues.

Spoiler

This response comes from personal experience with the stuff you seem to be describing. For instance, I used to be convinced I could never be happy with my mind below a certain level of intelligence. I had all the arguments like you did. People trying to reassure me would present arguments back to me - which was a mistake, because of course I had counters. The more people I argued against, the more I became convinced that I was right. But over time as I focused on other things, I just...forgot about it. It stopped mattering. When I think about it now, I laugh, because it seems so absurd to me. I'm happy with my mind. It could be better, but that's just an objective fact now, not something that causes me distress.

The anxiety and racing thoughts I only figured out years later. After living with it for a while, I started to 'catch it in the act' - making me conclude things which, after a moment's thought, didn't make much sense. I would still get caught in these thought labyrinths of 'logical arguments' nested within each other though. It took some practice to start recognising it when it happened. When I took these labyrinths apart, I'd often see how many invisible assumptions there were that invalidated the argument (and whole edifices I'd built based upon a few key 'facts'). (This sort of thinking is actually written up in most INTP profiles, iirc, and typically the INTP learns as he gets older to rein it in, and take more cues from the outside world. So don't worry, it's normal; you've just got anxiety as well.) When I was able to separate my Observer Mode from my thoughts, I'd see myself conclusion-leaping using emotion and hypothetical scenarios, but taking the conclusion as basically certain without realising.

A couple of people did tell me in the past my mind was poisoned, or that I was living in a huge elaborate 'logical' world of my own making, that I had to step out of it into reality to really know anything - couldn't just argue myself there. But I didn't believe them because I could argue them down, and they wouldn't know how to respond, and argument was the only route to truth I knew. Over time, reality/experience *did* show me how far short some of my imaginings were (like with the intelligence thing) - I'd been arguing with words, these other people had been speaking from reality. That, along with really getting to know the inner workings of your mind - seeing it operate in real time - will change things. At least make it possible for you to enjoy life some of the time, even if you slip up sometimes, as I still do.

Welp, that's it for me. If the similarity in process I see in you isn't actually there, then at least this has been a good bit of brain exercise for me.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

It seems that words(arguments, overthinking, anxiety) are the obstacle here, and the only thing internet advisers can give is words. That's the reason I was trying to impart some certainty earlier to bring it out of the mental sphere but I can't tell if it had any effect.

I hope you can find a person in real life to speak with about these issues to help you with motivation and action.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

I know I'm proving some of your points here, but I feel like I just have to exchange some ideas about some things you wrote here:

"Autism" is a red herring. It's a by-product of your anxiety - if you have it, it's not what will stop you from leading a satisfied life, this problem with your thoughts is.

Maybe, but you realize that Autism is an internal process that can seriously affect quality of life, right? I said before -- I don't want a perfect life, I just want to be on that platform where I feel like everything is okay. If core parts are missing, I won't ever be on that platform. I can tie this into it being a psychological need, which the lack of could be fueling my depression. I know there are theories about psychological needs out there (like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs) albeit I haven't read too much into them yet, but that's a real possibility. Maybe life would be easier if one ignored self-actualization and would just 'be' drifting through life taking whatever one could get, but once one is exposed to the concept and it fits into their value system, it's kinda hard to break free from it.

All this arguing around the subject and how it will affect your life is a fantasy and is what is *actually affecting your life*.

Perhaps, but it's a fantasy based off of reality e.g. 'mental preparation'. This is a good exercise, unless taken to an extreme, such is the case with me.

You're drawing your data from fantasy and other people's stories - and when they put their stories into words, sure it sounds bad, it sounds like they've had to settle for limitations. But remember they're just words. They can't transmit their internal/lived experience to you unless they go into great detail about what each moment of lived experience feels like, the way you did.

Yeah exactly, everyone has different values. I'm just hypothetically placing their detailed circumstances into my simulator of how I might react to them, and then a value is developed.

But you're just grappling with words - not reality.

I can see where you are getting at, but I kinda feel like you're underselling it. Obviously words only describe these complex perceptions and concepts. But they matter, and they can guide you and prepare you for the long-haul. It's also a form of intuition.

But yes. When you add the depression and anxiety into the mix, it imprisons you.

So far you're using gaming, which over time is counter-productive as you recognise it's taking time away - thus making it an added source of stress when not using it, compounding the problem, and creating more reliance on it. (However, I think some of the anxiety around this is itself simply anxiety.)

I think it's more than that, it's a hobby that I enjoy doing, as insignificant it may be on or related to the external. But yes, I fall too deeply into it because it's 'insignificance' is not as intimidating and allows me to play with my imagination; another escape and mind exercise.

Your mind leaps ahead to a conclusion then in a split second fills in an argument which appears to justify it (but often doesn't really).

Can you give me an example?

The out-of-control feeling triggers the need to be soothed, which your brain knows from past experience comes from gaming. So you game.

Actually, the desire to game isn't so much connected to immediate stress relief as much as it is just because it is a mind-exercise that I like to use to distract or relieve me from the concept of reality for a certain time being. The fucked up thing is, I actually shut out any sort of idea-generating/productive imagination-based activities in leu of riding the whole train of thought down just to squeeze some ideas out based on what the fuck is going on in my head. I feel a need to clear my mind before engaging in certain activities. I feel like energies are being confined to two different areas in my imagination (how this fits in my "reality" (self-actualization based/related, preparing for future) or how this fits into my "imaginary-reality" (complex worlds I spawn from playing video games or observing reality, mind-exercises from playing strategy games and filtering my observations of "reality" into my analytical intuition) -- and that is generally a major problem because it doesn't take me anywhere, as long as I have nothing significant to work with (which I mostly don't).

Breathing may not necessarily work for you. I don't actually know. I know it worked excellently for me, and suspect if it doesn't for others they haven't found something to focus on about the breathing.

Or maybe they're not doing it right.

Another thing which has helped is focusing on exactly how the fear feels in my body. This might be helpful for you just generally since you mentioned you're not aware of what's going on in your body.

Yeah I've been trying this like when I walk in public. To an extent I can recognize how I'm feeling e.g. if I am physically stiff or having a stomach reaction (chills) to something, but I have to make a conscious effort to process what is going on inside my body and I feel like it makes more connections to possibilities in my head and can get too carried away with it, which can sometimes be distracting and disrupts the appropriate action to buckle down and counter or analyze the problem, and why I'm reacting a certain way. It's a pain in the ass. I just cognitively prefer to ignore what's going on in my body. Explains being out of shape and my erratic sleeping schedule. If it's not just because of stress, bad sensing function also, perhaps.

Btw, in my experience the "hypothetical scenario" generator is a big cause for slip-ups in thinking and anxiety.

Spoiler

It's a form of that conclusion-leaping I talked about. A hypothetical scenario can operate as a question or an answer. As a question, it makes your brain answer, usually in emotional ways (eg how you responded - by raging at your family members). As an answer, it's usually an immediate and unchecked response to something your brain is thinking about, and usually emotional in nature. The emotion allows it to sidestep your rational processing, putting it into your memory/learning centre as 'true' - especially as your thoughts are slightly manic and everything is happening very fast. You then remember it as 'true' with deep certainty regardless of whether you checked it for accuracy, and it informs other hypothetical scenarios.

Spoiler

Funnily enough, it isn't always purely emotional in my case.

(This sort of thinking is actually written up in most INTP profiles, iirc, and typically the INTP learns as he gets older to rein it in, and take more cues from the outside world. So don't worry, it's normal; you've just got anxiety as well.)

FWIW, the profiles describe personality traits that any cognitive type can experience in one way or another, which lead to stereotypes. Plus, I'm not entirely sure of my cognitive type.

Welp, that's it for me. If the similarity in process I see in you isn't actually there, then at least this has been a good bit of brain exercise for me.

Yes, it's similar -- but that in itself doesn't invalidate my theories on certain things, and how they fit into my life. However, I do need to implement the practicality of handling what's going on in my head, as that is holding me back from taking the first step into my future efficiently.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

i suggest that when you feel the need to do something or think thoughts pause and notice then introspect a calm inner space that localizes your thoughts. if they have a position you can look at the space around it and disperse awareness into the environment.

Bolded can mean several things -- bringing yourself back into the physical environment by letting thoughts fizzle, or noticing how thoughts are rooted in the internal environment (your mind and body)?

 

[Black Rose]

Bolded can mean several things -- bringing yourself back into the physical environment by letting thoughts fizzle, or noticing how thoughts are rooted in the internal environment (your mind and body)?

you can do both. my internal environment is not as real to me as my external environment. it feels as if my body is transparent to all things that come into it. the first step is to pay attention and realize how they flow as waves of energy that are temporary. don't get involved with them to the extent that attachment is resisting where they go. Follow them where they go and then you can let go of them. Hold onto that state that follows as release of tension.

 

[Kuu]

Well that was a long read.

After Minuend and Cheese's great posts I feel I don't have much new to say, but a few addendums and support to some points.

My impression:
The thing getting in the way of your life satisfaction is the racing thoughts and lack of energy. "Autism" is a red herring. It's a by-product of your anxiety - if you have it, it's not what will stop you from leading a satisfied life, this problem with your thoughts is. All this arguing around the subject and how it will affect your life is a fantasy and is what is *actually affecting your life*.

This constant battle is what is keeping you from everything in your life, because it generates so much tension you're in constant need of 'taking the edge off', so any other goal is impossible to focus on. It's not autism that'll definitely make your life suck - it's your anxiety. It's making it so you're unable to do anything. You need to accept that your thoughts are a symptom, and not reality. When you deal with the anxiety, and the thoughts slip away, and you start to build up a bank of 'good experiences', you'll be surprised at how many of the arguments drop away, or become more nuanced; some things you thought mattered and were impossible to live happily without will cease to matter at all.

This is the most important thing for you to get out of this thread. Autism is a red herring, and not your biggest enemy. Like OrLevitate said, fuck autism.

You keep trying to use reasoning to solve your perceived problems when it is too much reasoning that is your real problem, what is dragging you down, fighting ghosts, trapped in a terrible fictional world of your mind. Thinking-dominant people have a hard time with anxieties and depression because of it. They need to shut down their brains and bring them back to reality, but they consider that to be their strongest, if not only, asset, so they resist to absurd, indeed self-destructing, lengths.

What you require is two things. First is to shut the "simulation generator" off and stabilize yourself and get some real data. Various people have added advice related to that, meditation, exercise, music, breathing...:

You should get out more. Take a break from forced-reality and see what real-reality looks like.

Working out might help with your sleep schedule and reigning in the unruly mind. I suggest trying it for a while to see if it works.

Remember that the mind and the body are one. To heal your mind sometimes you must focus on your body. You have to, like EyeSeeCold says, stop frequenting psychology boards, and furthermore I would say you need to minimize your gaming and computer usage. All those things stimulate the mind (even if they're largely escapism) but let the body idle, and what you want is activities that make you focus on bodily things, so the mind cools off the racing thoughts. Get out more, absolutely, though perhaps not to places where there's people (for they are anxiety triggers). Working out is great, neurochemically, but it might seem too daunting at first, motivation-wise and due to people-anxiety.

Last time I had a major depressive breakdown, hiding in a dark room sleepless with racing mind and self loathing and suicidal thoughts, I found peace by frequent hiking. There was a good amount of forest a couple of minutes walking where I lived at the time, and I went there for many months, many hours to calm down, sometimes in the middle of the night. It was secluded and solitary. No people to disturb me, to provoke intrusive thoughts about my worries in society. No buildings or roads or anything to remind me of civilization, for that matter. No past mistakes or future concerns. Just me and nature, existing in that moment. Immersed in the most primal reality. The negative thoughts still came, but not as bad, and diminished over time to the point I was able to tackle basic tasks and limited social interaction again. The mild exercise, the stimuli of sun and wind and sights and sounds are good to the body and mind. Away from the social-constructs of man, I found my strength, and my desire to keep living, between trees and rocks under the great blue.

You might think that what I propose sounds like a waste of time, since you seem for some reason fixated on the thought that you're running out of time, but you are wrong on both accounts. You are still quite young, and taking time to calm down and gather strength is an investment so you can do things in the future. Rushing things ends in failure more often than not, ultimately you waste more time in failed rushed jobs. Take your time, calm down. You can't make a giant leap to the top of Maslow's pyramid, you need to walk your way up from the base.

As a closure to this emphasis on the body, do mind your nutrition. It's obvious, but not eating, or eating only junk food will fuck up your mood, energy, etc. Keep sugar in check, drop caffeine, get some multivitamin supplement, and try to eat healthy. Cooking, if you can get into it, is a good rhythmic activity to trance out of worries, and get a good physical reward in the end. It's both a necessary survival skill as well as a good social skill to have.

Once you've calmed down the worst of your anxiety and crawled out of the pit of despair will come the most elusive task so you can progress, which is death. Ego death, that is. Your professed dream lifestyle doesn't sound so out-there (traveling, hobbies, stability, a good relationship... rather common desires), but for some reason you speak as if you're actually out for some grand, fantastic thing. Whatever those things yet unspoken are, some you will have to let go, be they false ideas of your self, or simply unrealistic dreams and expectations. The present, anxious-ridden self must die, so that a stronger self can be born.

It will be painful, but you can adapt. After the worst disappointment, you can start focusing what you can do, not what you can't.

And from your previous thread r4ch3l pretty much parallels my experiences and thoughts:

It's true!

OP -- this time last year I was in a place similar to where you are now. I was obsessed with figuring out what was wrong with me after going through a crazy winter where I went into psychosis and didn't leave my room, just read and thought for 16 hours a day. This obsession eventually led to me finding this place.

The "never going to achieve my goals" narrative was also one of my reasons for contemplating suicide. I felt fundamentally defective most of my life and with all the brain damage I was certain I had done to myself I thought it was over.

Then I stopped giving a shit.

I realized that my fear of not achieving my goals meant I actually wanted to live, not to die. And then I decided to try and concentrate on living, on the process.

My life is not amazing now but I can say that this time last year I was afraid to leave the house and routinely didn't even get up to drink water or eat for days at a time. Somehow through accepting life as it is and being patient and nicer to myself I've accumulated friends, a job, a new goal, health, and employable skills.

Accept that you never may accomplish your goals. Live anyway. Trust me, you'll have a better shot at getting there this way.

This is great too:

Taking the first step- just do it. It will not be perfectly executed. Nothing in practice ever is. Don't be afraid to fail. You will fail many times regardless of your fear. If you are doing something creative and new then I advice you to fail faster. It's a bit counter intuitive, but it works. Trust me, I am a guy on the internet.

Whatever you do, don't join the military.

I consume inhumane (well not really inhumane, but it sounds cool [no it doesn't]) amounts of caffeine in a pathethic effort to try to deal with the constant mindfog/chaos and utter lack of energy/motivation.

Reduce caffeine. It might be a socially sanctioned drug, but is not without bad sides to it. With its short-lived effects and subsequent caffeine crashes, it might do you more damage than good.

Look into L-theanine.

 

[cheese]

Maybe, but you realize that Autism is an internal process that can seriously affect quality of life, right? I said before -- I don't want a perfect life, I just want to be on that platform where I feel like everything is okay. If core parts are missing, I won't ever be on that platform. Maybe life would be easier if one ignored self-actualization and would just 'be' drifting through life taking whatever one could get

No, you don't know this - that's what I'm trying to say. You think this will be the case based on your data cruncher, but that shit is broken: prone to bias, currently overworked, obsessive, avoiding its real problems. Only actually experiencing life will give you the answer one way or the other.

Perhaps, but it's a fantasy based off of reality e.g. 'mental preparation'. This is a good exercise, unless taken to an extreme, such is the case with me.

I can see where you are getting at, but I kinda feel like you're underselling it. Obviously words only describe these complex perceptions and concepts. But they matter, and they can guide you and prepare you for the long-haul. It's also a form of intuition.

Yes, it's similar -- but that in itself doesn't invalidate my theories on certain things, and how they fit into my life.

I know, I really do know the feeling. No, I don't think the thinking is absolutely useless - there's certainly something to be said for mental prep. But they're still just simulations. You still don't know how things will be until they are over. I've been wrong both ways before - thinking I knew how bad something could be, and it being far worse than I could've imagined. And thinking something was going to be terrible, and having it turn out wonderfully perfect.

Btw, that need to be mentally prepared is another typical INTP, and also enneagram 5 trait. I think most people on the board can relate to that feeling, and obsessively going over simulations.

Can you give me an example?

Funnily enough, it isn't always purely emotional in my case.

Oh damn, I don't have great examples off the top of my head. I should write them down somewhere.

Spoiler

By the brain 'leaping' I also mean making associations, because this muddies up your thinking as well. Often an association can be mistaken for a thought-out conclusion, if close enough, so it's important to pay attention to those too. Some examples of associative thinking with you were when you went from looking up a definition to thinking about your cousin, to your feelings about her, to family, then to anger about them, then Asperger's (think of this one as the 'black hole' of thought - anxiety is associating everything it can with it).

If you've ever felt a strong resistance when you imagine living in the future as an autistic guy, that's already emotion guiding your thoughts. Because you feel it'll turn out badly, you only consider bad futures, and reflexively dismiss anyone else's experience of it being good, and now seem convinced it'll be impossible for you to enjoy life if you have Asperger's.

As a rule of thumb: Any time you feel emotional about something you're thinking - and by emotional I mean sad, happy, uncomfortable, resistant (could feel like a very cold/calm "this is unacceptable"), angry, etc - you should pause and really force yourself to go over what you just thought, and force yourself to expand possibilities especially at the point of negative emotion. You will probably start to see the links between thoughts are sometimes very shaky.

Yes, it will often not seem emotional in the sense that the word is used (strong feeling). You may feel calm, you may feel only slight distaste, whatever. But somewhere along the chain of thought is often a pocket of resistance, or a bit of manic association, which damages the integrity of the chain. When it's obvious - like noticing you went from looking up a word to a reddit thread on Asperger's - it's easy to see.

[Also, it's not a useless function - it can allow for insight, can make you feel good if the leap is positive, etc.]

Yeah I've been trying this like when I walk in public.

Listen to kuu - being in public can intensify anxiety. Try learning to calm yourself at home, because practice makes perfect, and once your body knows how to access that pathway it'll be closer at hand when you really need it.

-----------------------------

I'm planning to make this the last reply I post in this thread, or at least to you. I think anything else could be counter-productive.

Whether you believe us or not, whether we're right or not, I think you and we all agree that the first thing to do is calm the anxiety. Everything else can be ignored for now; everything else will come from there. Good luck!

 

[louiesgonnadie]

Just wanted to update this thread about trying to take everything in and get into a meditative groove, and how that's going:

I want to exercise, but the anxiety being in public fucks me up. I want to have a clear mind while exercising, even jogging. Should I wait until I have a clearer mind, or something else?

I know @Kuu you mentioned exercise in your post. The main thing that would trip me up is the social anxiety. I can't jog around in my neighborhood without feeling self-conscious wondering if my neighbors think it's weird that I'm jogging instead of walking, if they even noticed (which they probably mostly don't) even though it obviously doesn't mean jack shit in the long or short run. I have nowhere to go to vibe out and calm down, other than some dumpy suburban park, and when I am in such an environment I have difficulty tuning into it because I'm so absorbed in my thoughts. I can't go outside at night because of my mother's guidelines. I'm in a shit position in regards to this.

Speaking of which, the meditation is still going badly. The extreme lack of motivation/frustration/other worries (pathetically short height, I'm a 5'2 fuck) are interfering and I find it hard to maintain inner peace after clearing my mind, or should I say, attempting to.

Should I stock up on nutrients and replenish my body first? The problem there is without the clear mind, I can't focus for jack shit, so I don't know what I should put in my body. And I'm flat broke, so I can't really buy anything. Plus my mother has a lot of damn issues right now so she probably can't keep up with it.

Also, I finally ran into a really good example of how "things just don't fucking register in my brain and don't appear to logically make any sense" sometimes like I was talking about in the OP. I was reading this reddit thread debating whether or not suicide could be a rational decision, and then I read this comment about a psychologist who proposed his own concept of a brain phase he called "psychache" (here was the original comment if you perceive the way I'm illustrating this is faulty: http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyvie...e_can_be_a_rational_decision_even_for/cn3dflp)

"He wasn't at all pro-suicide, and developed treatment processes which he believed spoke more directly and effectively to the pain suffered by those who are suicidal. But his most important contribution was introducing the suggestion (backed up by credible research) that being suicidal was not necessarily, inherently, a function of specific mental illness."

When I read the bolded, I was thrown into a loop because it just didn't make sense to me. If the person was becoming suicidal, and that would obviously be linked to some type of melancholy, why wouldn't that consistency be linked to some type of "illness", hence the term "ill" - even if there was a decent basis behind those feelings? Doesn't there have to be consistency considering an illness and it's development? That's what tripped me up. I feel like I'm misunderstanding though, because I get the feeling that the sentence is actually true in some way. SEE HOW FUCKED UP MY MIND IS?!?!?!?!?

idk, I was going to let this thread die but things aren't going well. So fuck it, kinda.

 

[Black Rose]

louiesgonnadie

Metal illness is something i have that is why i am on SSDI. It doesn't have to be that the reason you decide to end it all is based on emotion but a lack of meaning. I do find meaning but it is also veiled by misery. I think life has purpose but the person you mention does not. Its rational to decide what to do if you know why you are doing it but in his case it was based on a relative truth so it seem he was unable to see all options. This happens and seems rational but the full picture is that dignity is lost for those people in their minds. As non of us know everything it is by our reason we make choices. So if you are blind you might not think beauty exists but your access to what you think is needed to find purpose has be destroyed you don't know what to do so think its rational for life to end. But this is not the case. Life is a challenge and false meaning is attachment to a single object to find it. If you let yourself be limited to one option it is where you loss your ability to see that you have dignity.

You have anxiety because the brain you have is unable to see more options. Your brain is separated into one dominate force that is in control and that force inhibits your thinking. The way to change this is isolate that force and cut it of until is denigrates. This will create pressure but in the end it will be the biggest relief you have ever experienced. Then you can see more options and parallel process linking to what you were once unable to access. I've done this several times, i have felt my brain heat up in places and released its grip. Other times i have had bursts of insight without this pressure and my mind filled with a cool mist. Back and forth is builds up and is released but to keep it from coming back it must be that the total system isolates those parts before they emerge as a gigantic problem.

 

[crippli]

If suicide is a viable option. Why not take it gradually? As what it does is to take "you" as far away as possible. The logical approach for me would be to take baby steps, seek out social services, and explain the situation. Then they will do what a suicide will also do, just much less drastically. But the effect should be comparable. They will sett you up somewhere that is less stressful. It is important that you state what it is that you need. Preferably take this through the psychologist.

I think keeping the suicide option is a healthy backup. As long as it is considered rationally. When it tips over to a mental disordered is if it is being idealized. Every fantasy can become "real" if it is repeated in the brain enough times. Do some self monitoring. Use "the red hotline phone" if you find your thoughts go into repeat, and have someone else take care of the problems.

The INTP can figure out a whole lot. But not get to have much done about it. Similarly, many others can not figure much out, but they do get much done, when things have been figured out for them. I can't say I have a good grasp on what specifically the issues here are. But I do think the above approach can work more often then not. Basically change the environment, and much is changed, generally speaking.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

I have updated this thread, but bumping it for reference.

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=23442

 

[louiesgonnadie]

Suicide