How Smart Are You?

[Agent Intellect]

A lot of people, here and on other MBTI forums, seem to think that being NT is an automatic pass to having above average intelligence. I see a lot of people say things like "I can't believe INTP's would act this way!" and so forth. It has me thinking about how smart people actually see themselves.

I, for one, don't think I'm really any smarter then an average person. What I would consider myself is more curious then the average person.

And I suppose that's the distinction I'm wondering about. Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? I have a horrible memory, I'm not the greatest puzzle solver, I don't always pick up on concepts right away, I'm not particularly witty or creative, and I'm a complete social retard, but what I am is curious and I am persistent when it comes to trying to understand something that I'm interested in. I've spent long periods of time trying to make sense of concepts that are probably quite simple to some people - but, of course, a lot of other people would have probably given up after a couple minutes of mulling it around.

So I guess my questions are: do people see themselves as being smart, intelligent, creative, etc?
Is intelligence something that can be measured in any way (IQ tests, GPA's, one's ability to play Jeopardy etc)?
Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? How about open mindedness? Or skepticism?
Are NT's really naturally intelligent?
Is intelligence something you're born with or is it something that can vary/grow on a daily/monthly/yearly etc basis?
And, ultimately, how does one even define intelligence? Are there a variety of different ways that one can be intelligent? Creativity; ingenuity; deductive/inductive thinking; memory; pattern recognition; ability to learn quickly or easily; holistic/reductionist thinking; strategic thinking so on and so forth.

 

[Ermine]

So I guess my questions are: do people see themselves as being smart, intelligent, creative, etc?
Is intelligence something that can be measured in any way (IQ tests, GPA's, one's ability to play Jeopardy etc)?
Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? How about open mindedness? Or skepticism?
Are NT's really naturally intelligent?
Is intelligence something you're born with or is it something that can vary/grow on a daily/monthly/yearly etc basis?
And, ultimately, how does one even define intelligence? Are there a variety of different ways that one can be intelligent? Creativity; ingenuity; deductive/inductive thinking; memory; pattern recognition; ability to learn quickly or easily; holistic/reductionist thinking; strategic thinking so on and so forth.

I don't intend to be pretentious by answering this question. But I also wonder this a lot. People consistently tell me that I'm smart, but I have a hard time believing it. It's especially hard when the people who tell me I'm smart are smart in the very areas I'm lacking in. All I really have a claim to is curiosity, a weird brain that thinks in a weird way, a decent memory, and the drive to learn about what I find fascinating. Oh, and lots of time on my hands, being fairly "antisocial". I guess that kind of answers the first question. We all have our abilities, and sources of "creativity" and "intelligence".

I don't think that intelligence can be measured properly. There are just too many variables. The IQ test, for example, only measures puzzle problem solving ability. It's affected not only by the ability to answer the questions, but cultural context, attention span, internal and external distractions, and many other things. And there are also many other forms of intelligence, such as spatial, emotional, verbal, and social intelligence.

And is open-mindedness a condition for intelligence? Not necessarily. An example of this would be my grandpa. He isn't all that curious. He has yet to learn how to use a computer, he doesn't really read except for books on stuff he knows about already, he doesn't explore much, he does the same sort of thing day and day out, he's very tradition oriented, he just does what he does. However, he's an expert at what he does. I think that qualifies as a sort of intelligence. This sort of lifestyle would be detrimental to my intelligence, but to each his own.

I don't think that the MBTI is an indicator of intelligence as a whole. It really just hints at predispositions. For example, extroverts tend to have more social intelligence. Feelers tend to have emotional intelligence. In the case of NTs, all it really says is that we're geared towards curiosity, intuition, and logical problem solving skills. That's just one form of intelligence out of many. Also, the brain is a sort of muscle, that is strengthened when used, and weakens when it's neglected. The more we work on different skills, the more "intelligent" we become.

And you're right. It's hard to define intelligence, even in a general sense. I think this is better worded in terms of skill level.

 

[ohrtonz]

A quick simple comment on this and a bit how I think. Usually when someone does something the easy way or has someone do it for them I may think ,and I notice some others will say (not sure their type), "why didnt this person just do it themselves? This is easy" or "why didnt they do it, they know about that stuff" But more I try to realize maybe it was worth their time to have someone else do it while they do other things, instead of trying to label them as not intelligent.

I myself usually out of laziness or convenience have someone else do it sometimes. I build my own computers but I was having a problem with a new part, I had no other parts to test so I brought it to a PC shop and paid $10 for them to verify it works and it was my other part that was bad instead of me shipping the new part back. Sure I am no master at computers but I can troubleshoot. Though I don't think I told anyone that I did that in fear of being ridiculed by some as they say in a stubborn voice "i wouldnt pay for that I do it myself!"

I change my own oil. And I think it's very easy to learn and do. I could on the one hand think low of everyone in the world that pays for their oil change, but I have to remind myself. Other than those that really just don't want to learn it, there are those that find it more convenient and faster to have a shop do it. And there is nothing wrong with that, doesn't make them stupid.

I think curiosity is a good way to describe the feeling of being smarter, because I know I'm forgetful and stuff to, I'm smart and creative and curious to learn things instead of just being ignorant.

 

[Toad]

I think that being intuitive, we are able to figure things out much easier. I have always been able to learn things very quickly and was always ahead of my class.

That being said, I agree that most NT's take too much pride in their type.

btw, I hate you.

 

[Cassandra]

Truthfully, although I am endlessly curious about math, I have little math ability. I would rate my innate math ability as "average". However, due to my curiosity for the subject (and just because I think it's fun), I tend to score higher on math tests, but only because I spent a lot of time reading and doing the math. Not because I'm good at it.

I think intelligence cannot be (feasibly) measured, but it can be perceived (albeit, subjectively). You can tell if someone is good at something, say a subject like chemistry, a game like chess, or even a sport, and say correctly that they have intelligence in it, however, due to the complex factors going into how and why that person has those abilities, it cannot be easily or with any certainty reduced to a numerical or otherwise (seemingly) simplistic answer.

Intelligence encompasses what you know (background knowledge), and what knowledge/ability you have that allows you to achieve new knowledge. That second category includes positive learning characteristics, such as curiosity, diligence, open-mindedness, determination, passion for your subject, etc. It also includes your ability to properly use knowledge finding tools, such as the internet, books, speech, listening, and the most basic of all, your senses.

What most "intelligence measuring tests" presume to measure is your capacity to gain new knowledge. This really is largely a derivative of the first two "factors" of intelligence, a person's knowledge base (in terms of facts, ideas, etc.) combined with those sections of their knowledge base and personality which are conducive to expanding their knowledge base (in terms of curiosity, ability to use an index, to understand others, etc.)

Not only do these tests not really test for this derived capacity factor, they attempt to do so in a narrow context, for only a short and skewed list of categories. But, then again, you've probably heard this all before.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

This article is relevant to this topic, I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_intelligence_factor

 

[Da Blob]

So I guess my questions are: do people see themselves as being smart, intelligent, creative, etc?
I do not think so, "Smart" is a stereotype that is just laid on us - it is supposed to be a good thing, but Nerd, Geek, Egghead, etc. are 'negative' words used to describe members of the same stereotypic group. We are all individuals, so I think that it would be a product of egotism, that might not reflect the truth - if a person believed he or she was intelligent. I mean intelligence is something that has to be determined by others for it to be a valid observation...

Is intelligence something that can be measured in any way (IQ tests, GPA's, one's ability to play Jeopardy etc)?
Yes, but they have been careful only to define intelligence as a thing that can be measured...
Howard Gardner did a politically correct thing a few years back when he single-handedly made all humans into geniuses. He just arbitrarily exalted some mental knacks, talents and skills to the level of being separate and whole intelligences in themselves... Hurray for inclusiveness and diversity...

Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? How about open mindedness? Or skepticism?
Are NT's really naturally intelligent?
Why, Yes, of course...

Is intelligence something you're born with or is it something that can vary/grow on a daily/monthly/yearly etc basis?
There is a genetic basis for intelligence. However, the environment - socially and physically, plays a very important role in the development of cognition into intelligence. There just has to be certain stimuli presented to a growing brain within a limited window of opportunity for intelligence to keep pace with the human brain's development. Alas, this is a random thing because, most schools still expect children to be able to grasps intellectual concepts at the same time based upon their chronological ages and not their mental ages (which reflects the relative maturation of brains). Cognitive growth can occurs in leaps and bounds - it is not a steady progression with just a certain amount of progress that can be made in any given time period...

And, ultimately, how does one even define intelligence? Are there a variety of different ways that one can be intelligent? Creativity; ingenuity; deductive/inductive thinking; memory; pattern recognition; ability to learn quickly or easily; holistic/reductionist thinking; strategic thinking so on and so forth.
I already referred to Gardner's multiple intelligences - I think that it is just a scam that changed the meaning of the word, intelligence...

However, this is the Ultimate definition of "Intelligence". Intelligence is awareness, consciousness or intuition of phenomena ignored or unperceived by the general population. It always has to be a relative term (intelligent compared to what?)... Perhaps more of an adjective than a noun...(?)

EDIT: afterthought I think the concept of intelligence perhaps should be viewed in a context of human abilities. Many of Gardner's intelligences are share with other creatures on this Earth...

 

[Scourgexlvii]

So I guess my questions are: do people see themselves as being smart, intelligent, creative, etc?

I see myself as Creative, and intelligent, but only in areas that interest me, being an absolute idiot in stuff like Architecture, which I find both boring and irritating. I generally think it's mostly based in my ability to concentrate on it, as with Architecture, I seriously can barely pay attention in it, where as in stuff like German, I concentrate on it enough that I can almost instinctively formulate thoughts and Ideas in German, so long as I know enough of the words that I'm trying to say.

Is intelligence something that can be measured in any way (IQ tests, GPA's, one's ability to play Jeopardy etc)?

I don't see intelligence as a measurable thing, as it is simply an aspect of thought, the same way you can never measure emotions, and emotion can never be expressed exactly as it was felt, the same way someone's thought processes can't be duplicated, which without a constant of intelligence there is no way to compare intelligence accurately.

Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? How about open mindedness? Or skepticism?
Are NT's really naturally intelligent?

Curiosity, I think, contributes to intelligence, but is not a facet of it. The same way with open mindedness. Someone could be incredibly intelligent, due to pursuing their curiosities, but someone could be equally intelligent without Curiosity, however it would be much rarer. Also NTs are more curious, on average, than others, so Intelligence is high, but not required, within INTPs

Is intelligence something you're born with or is it something that can vary/grow on a daily/monthly/yearly etc basis?

Intelligence isn't a trait to be born with, but it can be nurtured, or discouraged, based on how knowledge is made avalible, how much, and what type.

And, ultimately, how does one even define intelligence? Are there a variety of different ways that one can be intelligent? Creativity; ingenuity; deductive/inductive thinking; memory; pattern recognition; ability to learn quickly or easily; holistic/reductionist thinking; strategic thinking so on and so forth.

As I said above, Intelligence is like emotion. Emotion comes in various forms, as does Intelligence. Creativity is definitely a form of Intelligence, as is ingenuity. One could argue on memory, pattern recognition, and strategic thinking, based on their definition of intelligence. I don't generally include them, though I'm iffy on strategic thinking, based on what context the strategy is developed, because I think memory is a separate section from intelligence, similar to intelligence and emotion, but not included in either. Memory, to me it the ability for the brain to recall information, while intelligence is the ability to process it. Pattern recognition relies on the brain to recall information that is similar to it, to formulate a general truth, for example, I remember that 28 days ago, and even 28 days before that, the moon was in the same phase as now: Thus I have found a pattern. To formulate the though that the moon rotates around the Earth, is reasoning, thus intelligence. Strategic thinking derived from the thought If I place an 'X' In this space I will win every game, is Memory. If it is derived from the thought: This is a winning move, which is unbeatable, how can I replicate it? Then it's reasoning, thus intelligence.

*Note/disclaimer: I mean to include Intelligence, Memory and Emotion as 3 equally important aspects of brain activity, despite the fact that my examples held a connotation which placed Intelligence over Memory, both are equally important*

 

[Zygomorphic]

Thought I'd throw this in the mix:

http://www.magazine.utoronto.ca/feature/why-people-are-irrational-kurt-kleiner/

 

[Trebuchet]

So I guess my questions are: do people see themselves as being smart, intelligent, creative, etc?

I consider myself intelligent. So do other people. I used to "dumb myself down" and try to hide it, but it never made me more popular or happy. It was much more effective to genuinely appreciate other people's strengths than to hide my own.

Is intelligence something that can be measured in any way (IQ tests, GPA's, one's ability to play Jeopardy etc)?

People have come up with lots of ways to measure intelligence. I score well on some, not so well on others, and many I have never tried. On your basic standardized test, like IQ, SAT, ASVAB, and other abbreviations, I am at the top. In standard school subjects, I have always done very well. On tests that measure social intelligence, artistry, and physical intelligence, I'm about average or slightly below average. Regardless of the test, intelligence tests don't impress me much, since it is hard to prove they aren't biased culturally.

Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? How about open mindedness? Or skepticism?

Yes, to all. I'm not sure they are necessary, but perhaps they are sufficient. Someone with all three probably would be considered intelligent.

Are NT's really naturally intelligent?

Maybe all types have the same distribution of intelligence. But NT's are naturally inclined to find pleasure in thinking and learning. Whatever intelligence they have will probably be developed as highly as possible.

Is intelligence something you're born with or is it something that can vary/grow on a daily/monthly/yearly etc basis?

It can certainly vary. For me, the hardest part of pregnancy was the loss of thought. I couldn't calculate a 15% tip in my head, or follow a logical argument longer than a syllogism. I was terrified that it wouldn't come back, but it did.

I am not arguing that all variations in intelligence come from estrogen, or hormones. That is just my one experience of intelligence changing drastically.

And, ultimately, how does one even define intelligence? Are there a variety of different ways that one can be intelligent? Creativity; ingenuity; deductive/inductive thinking; memory; pattern recognition; ability to learn quickly or easily; holistic/reductionist thinking; strategic thinking so on and so forth.

My personal measure of intelligence is: do you learn quickly, retain what you learn, and use what you learn to solve problems? Can you use your mind to your own advantage? Do you seek understanding, and do you achieve it?

 

[hope]

There are two ways I think of intelligence.
A) What you can easily accomplish
B) What you do

During in iq test like the WAIS you are asked some questions and how quickly and accurately you answer compared to others determines your iq.

Suppose that you are given a long term assignment. There is somebody with an iq of 120 and and individual with an iq of 100. The person with the iq of 100 is a whole lot more motivated. Even though the person with the iq of 120 has an easier time the person with the 100 iq does more work because they are more motivated.

So which one determines how intelligent you are what you could do or what you do?

I found some info about a study done of harvard students with creative accomplishments. I dont remember the exact details but ill tell you my spin of it.
They had to listen to a some sounds and say how many they heard ( to confuse them). Next, the researchers did what they actually wanted to do. They tested the iqs of people with creative accomplishments in their name's. They used the WAIS subtests of block design and vocabulary.

i. Block Design Copy this figure
is a general measure of nonverbal reasoning

ii. Vocabulary What does _ mean
People's scores on the vocabulary subtest correlate highly with their overall iqs

iii.These two tests are both considered the highest measures of creativity on the wais
The average end result was ~ 119. This is one standard deviation above the average 100 ( Sidenote:To figure out standard deviation of a data set find the average of a dataset then minus every number in the dataset by the mean and divide it all by the number of numbers)

I thought this study was interesting because the people that accomplished the most creatively atleast all had scores on the border of normal and something more. I think that this study supports an iq around 120 is good to get something done.

Another interesting study i came across was in the boston globe. The navy had done a study to figure out which traits gave an officer the most potential. They found that grit was the most important trait.

I think thats true becuase a person with an iq of 140 or something high would stop doing something when they found something pointless whereas a slightly less intelligent person would keep on going and get their work done. Agent intellect is smarter than the average person and i think your persistence more than anything else determines what you accomplish in your life.

There are alot of interesting sources on this topic
a malcolm gladwell
b. random googlings
c. the harvard study
d. boston globe article
e.old books written by terman

 

[transformers]

Intelligence is a funny thing. You think you know it when you see it, but I've seen all sorts of supposedly smart people make stupid fucking decisions. Where does their intelligence go then? In my opinion innate intelligence means nothing and motivation means everything. A person who is motivated to learn something will do it, and probably better than an unmotivated, but inherently smarter person, simply because they can persist at it longer than the smart guy. The key then, lies in controlling your motivations. How do you will yourself to do something? That is a tricky question. Surrounding yourself with people who will encourage you in the direction you want to go would be one way. I think people in general, and especially NT's, underestimate the psychological aspect of expressed intelligence. Tell a kid they're stupid or that books are dumb, and they won't want to study. Tell them they're brilliant and the world needs their unique talent, and suddenly those books look a lot more interesting!
I think overall though intelligence is kind of a bullshit word. Something people tell themselves to feel better, to blind themselves to the reality that everyone is as inherently capable as themselves, given enough time. It only really matters what you're willing to do, and that is a matter of interest, not intelligence.

Curiosity is different though. NT's are definitely more naturally curious. A quick glance at this forum would reveal as much.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Is curiosity a facet of intelligence?

NO! At least not really. Knowledge is like a box of tools. Curiosity is merely the desire to obtain more tools. Intelligence is the ability to use those tools effectively. A silly example: "I wonder what cutting the red wire on this live bomb will do." Not intelligent. However if you know how bombs work and use that knowledge to effectively neutralize the bomb, that's intelligent.

I have a horrible memory, I'm not the greatest puzzle solver, I don't always pick up on concepts right away, I'm not particularly witty or creative, and I'm a complete social retard, but what I am is curious and I am persistent when it comes to trying to understand something that I'm interested in

Intelligence comes in many forms. No one person can see them all or often times even the one within themselves. How fast you pick up on certain concepts doesn't really mean anything. What is the sign of intelligence is when you do learn a concept, what you do with it. Can you apply it in some way? Even if that application goes beyond what you learned? Back to the silly bomb example: You learn that the red wires defuse the bomb while the blue wires detonate the bomb. You also learn what the wires connect to which components. Suppose now you are faced with a bomb with all black wires. If you can recognise the components the wires are connected to, you can still defuse the bomb even though you have to go beyond what you originally learned.

(God my analogies suck!)

Is intelligence something that can be measured in any way (IQ tests, GPA's, one's ability to play Jeopardy etc)?

No, those measure how many tools you have in your tool box for the most part. Some parts of IQ tests go beyond that but still a solid knowledge base is required to score highly.

Is intelligence something you're born with or is it something that can vary/grow on a daily/monthly/yearly etc basis?

You are born with certain intellectual abilities. Those abilities are the foundation for which you can build on but that is of your choosing. So yes, it can grow like a plant would grow; with proper nurturing but you must start out with at least a seed which you are born with.

(Damn, now I'm mixing analogies)

And, ultimately, how does one even define intelligence? Are there a variety of different ways that one can be intelligent? Creativity; ingenuity; deductive/inductive thinking; memory; pattern recognition; ability to learn quickly or easily; holistic/reductionist thinking; strategic thinking so on and so forth.

Those are but a small sample of types of intelligence. There are many more, but it is all so subjective that any one mind can't recognise them all in others.

 

[amnorvend]

I think you guys might find this article interesting. Especially this table:

So, the real question is Are INTPs the master personality type? I'm joking of course, but this does give some food for thought.

EDIT: just noticed that ENFPs have more gifted than do INTPs. Curious, because introversion, intuition, thinking, and perceiving are the types with the most gifted. Perhaps this is an occurrence of Simpson's paradox? Or could the fact that there are less INTPs in general have something to do with it?

Could someone who's better at statistics than me shine some light on this?

 

[ckm]

I believe that intelligence is undefinable. Some are simply better suited to the academic environments that surround them than others; nobody is genuinely "better" or "worse" than anyone else. Nobody has the authority to make that judgement, although society thinks so.

To illustrate: some academics suit me well, for instance Maths. I do well in them. However, I am very undedicated, inconsistent and lacking in initiative. As a result, I do not perform in common practical tasks or other subjects, especially ones that involve hard work and responsibility. So, I'm good at Maths - does that make me intelligent? No. It just suits me. And I'm terrible at practical stuff - does that make me stupid? No. That kind of thing just doesn't suit me.

As the article linked in the above post states:

Since intuitive types are better at abstraction, symbols, theory, and possibilities, they outperform sensing types on aptitude tests.

The key word is tests. They are simply examining what Ns have a natural preference for. It doesn't mean they're smarter.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

EDIT: just noticed that ENFPs have more gifted than do INTPs. Curious, because introversion, intuition, thinking, and perceiving are the types with the most gifted. Perhaps this is an occurrence of Simpson's paradox? Or could the fact that there are less INTPs in general have something to do with it?

Could someone who's better at statistics than me shine some light on this?

Absolutely! I actually already posted on this:
INTP Forum - View Single Post - $$$$ INTP team role $$$$

If you look at the ratio of Gifted% to Norm%, INTPs are the highest with a whopping 3.40 G/N ratio. (That means, for every 1% of Normal population, we represent 3.4% of Gifted students.)

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Durble post!

So I guess my questions are: do people see themselves as being smart, intelligent, creative, etc?

I know everyone else is being relatively humble... but screw that!
Yes, I am intelligent. My SAT scores put me in the 90th percentile, I'm really proud of my AP scores, I'm proud that I graduated With Distinction in biochemistry. I'm open minded about my 'intelligent' decree- I kind of ask myself to update the question: "Am I smart? What new data is there?" There have been times when I'm insecure about it, but right now I'm pretty proud of where I am.

Is intelligence something that can be measured in any way (IQ tests, GPA's, one's ability to play Jeopardy etc)?

*shakes head* nope, unfortunately. But... each test gives you a hint at how smart someone is. I have a friend, in AP Physics and AP Calc he owned everyone, and was extremely smart. A little arrogant about it too, definitely a NT. It's inappropriate to say he's intelligent just from that though- well, I just heard that he got a perfect score on his LSAT (Law School Adminission Test). At some point we need to fold our skepticism and admit that test scores can prove intelligence? We can do it qualitatively, if not perfectly quantitatively.

One awkward thing, though, is that the IQ test was *created* by INTxs, so it's natural that INTxs will score well on it.

Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? How about open mindedness? Or skepticism?
Are NT's really naturally intelligent?

Yes! I agree with curiosity being a facet. And I also think that NTs are naturally intelligent.

Is intelligence something you're born with or is it something that can vary/grow on a daily/monthly/yearly etc basis?

It can vary, and can be fostered, but a lot of it is intrinsic I think. Of course, I'm also one of the silly people who think that the MBTI is genetic.

And, ultimately, how does one even define intelligence? Are there a variety of different ways that one can be intelligent? Creativity; ingenuity; deductive/inductive thinking; memory; pattern recognition; ability to learn quickly or easily; holistic/reductionist thinking; strategic thinking so on and so forth.

There are different facets towards intelligence... but I think that they ALL play a role, and that people who are good in one area will be good in other areas. Because there isn't just one part of the brain of "pattern recognition" and one part for "reductionist thinking" and one part for "Strategic thinking"; there is a LOT of overlap. Memory is a separate place, but if you have good memory then it creates a good foundation for intelligence.

 

[bluesquid]

Smart is an adjective, not a state of being.

I think Im very smart, quite often. I also think that Im intelligent.

lol

http://professorlamp.com/ed/TAG/7_Intelligences.html

plus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

and considering this

http://www.newscientist.com/article...ure-smart.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news


INTP's are very intelligent, for the most part. However, they become enamored with their dominant type of intelligence, abandoning all others.

at its most base?

we wrote the fucking test!

 

[amorfati]

It's really difficult for me to say. Almost all intelligent people that I've come across in life tell me that I'm very intelligent, but I have never excelled at anything, ever.

I think my intellect is schizophrenic. I have a extremely difficult time retrieving information; names, numbers, or details of any sort, but my working memory is excellent. I have an intuitive understanding of the nature of supposedly "difficult" concepts but I lack any common, especially social, sense. Most educated people seem to take a liking to my intellect, but my highest level of education is a G.E.D.

Anyway, I've come round full circle. It's really difficult for me to say.

 

[Logician]

Most people i meet and respect, if not all, tell me I'm intelligent. I'm also incredibly intuitive, i can learn and understand things at a rate that astonishes others sometimes. for example, i me and my friend were playing a new video game, i would have a grasp of all the games mechanics within the first five or ten minutes while my friends, who are also very intelligent, could takes hours.

By the way i would judge intelligence, i am extremely intelligent. as for "test indicated" intelligence I'm not sure. The last Emotional test i took said i was a sociopath (which I'm not, or at least I'm not from what i know about sociopaths).

My dad, who is a INTJ, has a IQ of about 130, and in philosophical discussions i can almost always out think him, and grasp new concepts before he does. Often even wasting long amounts of time to communicate my ideas to him (though this is my fault too, there is a bottleneck between my mind and my mouth), whether or not this means i have a IQ higher than his I'm not sure, I've never taken one.

 

[NoID10ts]

The people who know me best say I'm smart, but usually treat me like I'm stupid. Everyone else just treats me like I'm stupid. I treat myself like I'm stupid. Maybe it's because I am stupid.

 

[Logician]

Your not stupid, you enjoy the act of being stupid, your impulsive and random with a well developed Fe for a INTP (or your a child/pre-teen, in which case its perfectly normal and expected for a INTP with some form of social ability). being stupid gives you the freedom to act on your INTP-ish tangits without being judged by your peers.

If the only reason your like this is because your not yet a teen (or are just recently a teen) then you may either hit a stage where you become "Darth-Vader" for a little while, permanently darkening your personality, or you will fly under the radar of philosophy and become a very charming fellow with acute wit.

Of course, there are multiple other paths but those are the two most common (though the first exceeds the later by far), and even if you do go through a dark phase one could still come out very different than your average Nietzsche wannabee or nihilist.

Sorry for getting off topic. This was just a string of thoughts that kept falling in line one right after another.

 

[NoID10ts]

WTF?

 

[Agent Intellect]

The people who know me best say I'm smart, but usually treat me like I'm stupid. Everyone else just treats me like I'm stupid. I treat myself like I'm stupid. Maybe it's because I am stupid.

I think you have probably said some of the most intelligent stuff in the God/religion discussions - don't sell yourself short.

I find it strange that a lot of INTP's seem think of themselves and NT's in general as being highly intellectual, yet view themselves as inadequate in some way. I wonder if some of the INTP angst comes from the feeling of having such high expectations of themselves, wanting to 'fit in' with the intellectualism they perceive in the NT category (it's probably especially difficult when INTP's are having to compare themselves to people like Einstein and Socrates).

The problem may even go back to the article that Snowqueen posted on another thread - the idea that INTP's feel like they need to stack up against the intelligence that's stereotypical of NT's, and when they aren't the next Einstein, they punish themselves and attempt to deal with the issue through self deprecation (or even become depressed).

 

[Da Blob]

WTF?

LOL remember Noddy there is Mental age and then there is Chronological age...

My bother is a certified genius, but because he had ADHD he was put into the Special Ed classes with the "retards". He found out that being stupid was a lot easier than being intelligent. People did not expect much from stupid people, so they pretty much left him alone to do what he wanted to do in school. He was never stupid but he developed into being an incredibly "Lazy' person who always sought the easy way out of a problem. He still uses his assumed stupidity as an excuse for failure, when it is just a lack of effort on his part. However, it is odd that he rarely fails at achieving the goals he sets for himself, but almost always fails at achieving the goals set for him by others...(?)

That is a long-winded way of saying that "Stupid is Good"... sometimes

 

[fullerene]

I didn't see that article the first time, but that study where they praised the kids for working hard or being smart and then offering them a harder test sort of struck me as bullshit--and actually could have shown the exact opposite of what they were trying to get it to show.

You take two groups of kids out into the hall, give them a test they do well on and praise them for either being smart or working hard. Then you offer them the choice of a harder test or an easier test, with the explanation: "the harder test will make you learn." After praising one set of kids for their work, why the hell wouldn't you expect them to go for the harder test? It's a chance to show that they hard workers!

I would have taken it and said "these tests show that kids, like everyone else, enjoy sincere (if they didn't know the test was rigged) complements and want to be appreciated for something."

I was definitely a kid who was told he was smart all the time growing up, and I also realized (only fairly recently, sadly--in the past couple years?) that "I'm too lazy to [do something hard]" was very often an excuse so that I wouldn't have to fail at it... but it was an excuse to myself. I didn't care whether I seemed smart. I actually spent most of middle school trying to make people think I was not smart.

blegh... I hope some other psychologist picks that up and reinterprets it, or designs another study to test it again.

 

[ashitaria]

OH wow! I mean, I'm a borderline INTJ/INTP/ISTP, and I completely agreed with you guys!

Ive been having the same questions too, and everything you guys mentioned, everything you guys asked, everything you guys shared...ARE ALL MY VIEWS!

I mean seriously, how can a freakin' personality test determine your IQ? I've never taken an IQ test before, but just in comparison to other classmates tells me that I'm not all that smart.

When I was classified as an INTJ, I felt very inferior when they said that intelligence was one of our strongest points. Not to mention the people in the INTJ forum,.....

Pfft.

It took me several tests to figure out what type I truly was, and now after seeing this thread, I am throughly convinced Im an INTP.

I feel so much better now.

 

[Trebuchet]

I find it strange that a lot of INTP's seem think of themselves and NT's in general as being highly intellectual, yet view themselves as inadequate in some way.

That was a very common feeling in college, near as I could tell. It was an engineering/science/math college, so everyone was smart and technical. It wasn't super-competitive, though of course there was some of that. Mostly people tried to help each other.

Despite learning quickly, scoring well on tests, and working incredibly hard on assignments, many of us felt we were faking being smart. I was always worried someone would figure out that I was faking it and tell me I didn't belong there. Once we mastered something, it became "easy" and we felt like anyone could do it. Therefore we hadn't done anything hard, so where was the evidence that we were smart?

By sophomore year, I had learned to ignore this feeling, though it persists even to this day. I used to talk to the incoming freshmen about it, when they would complain of this fear, and tell them it was pretty normal and to ignore it.

 

[gepcy loc]

Im not smart. But I am eerily spock like, with just a hint of JTHM
tendencies......


Melkor, you got nothin' on me, really.

 

[eudemonia]

I think with a lot of INTPs that we are afraid of our intellect and where it might lead us. We don't want responsibility - we'd rather comment from afar. AI is one of the most intelligent people I have come across irl and online but he doesn't want to hear that. One of the reasons is that INTPs don't liketo have people expect anything of them

 

[Eef]

A lot of people, here and on other MBTI forums, seem to think that being NT is an automatic pass to having above average intelligence. I see a lot of people say things like "I can't believe INTP's would act this way!" and so forth. It has me thinking about how smart people actually see themselves.

How ignorant of some people, really. I took so many tests and even dragged my ass to see our psychology professor to test my personality but still, I keep on getting INTP. Well there was this one time that I got INFP but INTP still won, man. I beg to differ when they say that INTP's have above average intelligence. Results say so that I am an INTP but I don't see myself that of Einstein AT ALL. Not that I'm stupid or below average :-P I just see myself as average, that's all. This test measures personality, not accuracy of your intelligence. Maybe if you take an intelligence test you may get your answer. Otherwise, I beg to differ.

I, for one, don't think I'm really any smarter then an average person. What I would consider myself is more curious then the average person.

Same here. I'm curious as hell.

And I suppose that's the distinction I'm wondering about. Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? I have a horrible memory, I'm not the greatest puzzle solver, I don't always pick up on concepts right away, I'm not particularly witty or creative, and I'm a complete social retard, but what I am is curious and I am persistent when it comes to trying to understand something that I'm interested in. I've spent long periods of time trying to make sense of concepts that are probably quite simple to some people - but, of course, a lot of other people would have probably given up after a couple minutes of mulling it around.

I see curiosity as an important ingredient for a person's intelligence (I sound so stupid right now.). When I get curious about a sort of thing, I try to get as many facts as I can and investigate the subject. The more curious I get, the more I find myself endlessly gathering facts. That's the way I see it.

do people see themselves as being smart, intelligent, creative, etc?

I believe that I am born a genius, slacker by choice. No man, that just sounded wrong. But I do believe that I'm a slacker by choice. I don't know if I'm an intelligent person, never took any of those IQ tests because I feel lazy enough and I don't need printed words r a diploma to tell me if I'm smart or what. I do tend to think that I'm creative. I mean drawing, writing, and painting is what I like to do during my spare time.

Is intelligence something that can be measured in any way (IQ tests, GPA's, one's ability to play Jeopardy etc)?

To me, only I can tell if I'm smart or stupid. And I think I'm average. But who knows? I don't believe in printed text whatsoever.

Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? How about open mindedness? Or skepticism?
Are NT's really naturally intelligent?

I'm a skeptic dude and cynic in so many ways. But yeah, I believe that curiosity is a facet of intelligence. Slap me if not.

Is intelligence something you're born with or is it something that can vary/grow on a daily/monthly/yearly etc basis?

I cannot simply call a person intelligent if it wasn't inborn. If it wasn't, I wouldn't call it "intelligence", rather simply a hard-worker who achieved goals through hard-working. Intelligent people don't really need to do much of the study, they can memorize a chapter in probably just minutes than hours. Now, if they worked hard, and I mean they studied all the way through they'd be geniuses.

And, ultimately, how does one even define intelligence? Are there a variety of different ways that one can be intelligent? Creativity; ingenuity; deductive/inductive thinking; memory; pattern recognition; ability to learn quickly or easily; holistic/reductionist thinking; strategic thinking so on and so forth.

Intelligence is not what all people has. End of story.

 

[bluesquid]

Intelligence is 50/50 nature/nurture. Some people are gifted, but dull.

I always chalk people up to hardware and software. That person has a fast cool chip, but is running xp. While he is an underpowered mac, designing beautiful art.

I think I have great hardware. tested 153 last time I was checked. i drink quite a bit so its probably less now. I am a chef and work with some very un intellectual people, yet very clever.

i was born with speed, and learned finesse. My point is to encourage all of you. Being a INTP is a huge gift. It is great power, but it must be focused.

Pick three people from history. A politician, a poet, and a traveler. Immerse yourself in their auto biographies. Learn what they valued learning.

YOU are a powerful machine even if your IQ isn't super high. You need to learn allot tho. So figure out what you need to learn, and go do it!

smart is using your skills and intelligence to augment your skills and intelligence.

 

[Adamastor]

I have been told the same as many here and here are my thoughts:

Should one be concerned about intelligence? Is it important? Is it important because it is a way to measure someone's worth?

Nah, intelligence is no big deal.

In a practical point of view:

There are outstanding people and not outstanding people. Outstanding people have accomplished something due to their capabilities, not out of luck alone. It doesn't matter if you are intelligent but you have not accomplished anything, what makes you different from someone NOT intelligent who hasn't accomplished something?

If you are intelligent and have not accomplished anything, but insists on the difference between you and someone not intelligent* in the same "level", rather the same situation, I can't help but to think the worst of you...

*not intelligent doesn't mean NO BRAIN, it supposes the existences of levels of intelligences, and this person is of level below the one in question.

Another point of view:
There are interesting people and not interesting people. Intelligent people are not necessarily interesting.

 

[Starfruit M.E.]

I think I'm slightly above average... I currently have a 3.56 GPA in college, I graduated high school with an honers diploma, I tutor in math, I know three languages, I have experience and have knowledge in a huge amount of subjects... in general I am smart. But I haven't specialized enough in something to be considered great.

On the other hand, there are different kinds of "smart," and I am sure I do not fit all of them.

 

[KazeCraven]

Agree with Transformers's post, though I would add that humans vary somewhat in their intellectual capacities. I would argue, however, that most of the difference (after correcting for knowledge and motivation and effort, etc.) comes from ways of thinking rather than from having a better "brain proccessing unit."

The other points about intelligence, test-taking aptitude, etc. I was going to make would be redundant with other members' posts.

 

[asdfasdfasdfsdf]

A lot of people, here and on other MBTI forums, seem to think that being NT is an automatic pass to having above average intelligence. I see a lot of people say things like "I can't believe INTP's would act this way!" and so forth. It has me thinking about how smart people actually see themselves.

I, for one, don't think I'm really any smarter then an average person. What I would consider myself is more curious then the average person.

And I suppose that's the distinction I'm wondering about. Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? I have a horrible memory, I'm not the greatest puzzle solver, I don't always pick up on concepts right away, I'm not particularly witty or creative, and I'm a complete social retard, but what I am is curious and I am persistent when it comes to trying to understand something that I'm interested in. I've spent long periods of time trying to make sense of concepts that are probably quite simple to some people - but, of course, a lot of other people would have probably given up after a couple minutes of mulling it around.

So I guess my questions are: do people see themselves as being smart, intelligent, creative, etc?
Is intelligence something that can be measured in any way (IQ tests, GPA's, one's ability to play Jeopardy etc)?
Is curiosity a facet of intelligence? How about open mindedness? Or skepticism?
Are NT's really naturally intelligent?
Is intelligence something you're born with or is it something that can vary/grow on a daily/monthly/yearly etc basis?
And, ultimately, how does one even define intelligence? Are there a variety of different ways that one can be intelligent? Creativity; ingenuity; deductive/inductive thinking; memory; pattern recognition; ability to learn quickly or easily; holistic/reductionist thinking; strategic thinking so on and so forth.

i think there are different kinds of smart.
i think gpa is a worthless measure. jeaopardy is a measure of one type.. tests? depends on which test. i think iq is a good measure of a different kind of smart.
im not sure if all nts are smarter than others.. but i think nt combined makes a curious analyzer..
i think im probably smarter than average in the problem solving/iq type of smart.. however... i would probably be average or slightly less in the jeopardy kind. i think im rather good at pattern recognition, memory, and creativity...

 

[Words]

I'm just proudly dumb. a rarity in its own right. personalities have intellectual tendencies but that's what they merely are---chances...nothing more.

 

[Yellow]

I apologize in advance because really, I want to comment but I really don't want to read every previous comment.

This just reminds me of something I've always thought about my brother and I. He was born a genius. Really amazingly intelligent according to all the tests they administer to strange little kids, and he is the biggest idiot I know. He has never tried to learn anything he's just let his brain turn into goop because he's the most extreme INFP ever and can't leave la-la land long enough to even be curious about the world around him, he just accepts the easiest explanations without bothering to question them because he'd rather spend the brain power playing videogames or whatever. I am average. I feel average. And I have worked my ass off to trying to do what I feel is just catching up with my genius parents and everyone else. People call me smart, I always pop up in the top percentiles in various tests, but I think when you spend all your time trying to keep up with tons of subjects, just to stop yourself from feeling inadequate, you accumulate a bit of information. That is not intelligence, if anything, it's a little bit pathetic. Of course I love learning new stuff, so it all works out. The point is, I don't feel smart.

On a side note the whole 'I can't believe an xNTx would say/think that' thing might be more of a comment on the person's logic. I do hope to find rational, logical thoughts and arguments from NTs because its supposed to be our thing, and its something I really crave after a long day out in the real world.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I feel really dumb when I talk to IXTJs and EXTJs, especially the NT versions. If I am indeed an INTP (which I am leaning toward more and more), it would be because I relate to Lenore Thomson's explanation of introverted thinking, which she likes to point out is subjective, unlike Te, which is objective. As she says,

"...introverted thinking is not conceptual and linear. It's body based and wholistic. It operates by visual, tactile, or spatial cues, inclining us to reason experientially rather than analytically."

"When [ITPs] are involved in something that interests them, they don't distinguish their thoughts from the tacit level of information they're relying on. They're part of the process, changing its nature by changing themselves. ETJs, [conversely], make a firm split between observer and observed. They set objective goals and will sacrifice their own needs to bring them about. ITPs will do the inverse. They'll sacrifice objective considerations for the sake of a project or experience that "feels right" to them. The resulting behavior looks impulsive and may even be destructive. But the ITP's decision-making process is simply not objective."

I think all the time, I never stop thinking, but I'm not very good at expressing those thoughts in a conventionally intellectual way. I ramble, I forget my point, I contradict myself. In other words, when I try to extravert my thoughts, they often come out stupid. Not to mention, I seem to be incapable of following the 'correct' way of doing things. For example, I got a D in Geometry in high school because I just couldn't deal with using other mathematicians' theorems to solve proofs; I wanted to create my own, so I did. Chances are they were totally wrong, but I didn't care. It was all about trying to figure it out on my own.

 

[severus]

My dad, who is a INTJ, has a IQ of about 130, and in philosophical discussions i can almost always out think him, and grasp new concepts before he does. Often even wasting long amounts of time to communicate my ideas to him (though this is my fault too, there is a bottleneck between my mind and my mouth), whether or not this means i have a IQ higher than his I'm not sure, I've never taken one.

SOMEwhat related: IQ tests always make 100 the average. However, new generations--as a whole--are more intelligent than their predecessors. So, if you took an IQ test and got 130 also, you'd actually be "more intelligent" than your dad, even though the number is the same. (I got this from an iTunes University podcast on psychology from Yale. Seems a trustworthy source, no?)

I find it strange that a lot of INTP's seem think of themselves and NT's in general as being highly intellectual, yet view themselves as inadequate in some way. I wonder if some of the INTP angst comes from the feeling of having such high expectations of themselves, wanting to 'fit in' with the intellectualism they perceive in the NT category (it's probably especially difficult when INTP's are having to compare themselves to people like Einstein and Socrates).

Yep, that's pretty much me. I often come across people on this forum talking about how they try/tried to fit in with the popular kids, but I always tried to fit in with the "smart kids" or geeks. Possibly, that should not be in the past tense....

Despite learning quickly, scoring well on tests, and working incredibly hard on assignments, many of us felt we were faking being smart. I was always worried someone would figure out that I was faking it and tell me I didn't belong there. Once we mastered something, it became "easy" and we felt like anyone could do it. Therefore we hadn't done anything hard, so where was the evidence that we were smart?

This too, the bolded especially.

---

Is there a difference between "smart" and "intelligent"?
I would say it goes with stupid vs ignorant, but that would be more of a "knowledgeable" thing, I think.

 

[Murphy1d]

Just because I can't really speak with my IRL friends about this I am glad I can talk about it here.

In school I got the "you're so smart but you don't apply yourself." I thought that was just after-school-special talk to get me to do better in school. I went to weekly "gifted and talented" classes but so did my brother (so it wasn't really special to me).

I didn't find out about my IQ until after college. My parents showed me that I had an IQ score of 138. Depending on which test I took it would be either Genius or Near-Genius. Then suddenly I really felt like a dunce because I "had proof" of my ability and it was not just wishful thinking on my parent's part.

From that point on it was a huge motivational push for me, because "I should be able to overcome any obstacle if I just put my mind to it." BAM - My world view changed. Nothing was the same. Hell, it helped me get over my fear of talking to women. Right or wrong, true or false, having a sense of being "smart" can help you feel more confident about your ideas, your sense of worth and your confidence overall.

Thus, like discussions about money, I don't think discussions about IQ should be taboo.

 

[Anthile]

Really? In my opinion a high IQ only shows that you are, well, really good at filling out IQ tests.

 

[Words]

Really? In my opinion a high IQ only shows that you are, well, really good at filling out IQ tests.

of course not...

 

[bluesquid]

of course not...

You need good hardware to run the best and latest software.

 

[Murphy1d]

Really? In my opinion a high IQ only shows that you are, well, really good at filling out IQ tests.

You've been taking online IQ tests haven't you (JK)

My test was administered in 1977 at the age of 6, so I really didn't have much test taking experience then. What it said was that I was acting and thinking like an 8 year old but at the age of 6 (IQ = (Mental Age/Calendar Age) * 100). That's why, if you act and think like a kid your age your IQ would be 100 (the average IQ)

If you are wondering if my IQ allows me to spit back knowledge in measurable ways such as answer trivia quizzes and recite data from books, well I'm probably not as good as the rest of the people in this forum.

That kind of knowledge IMO is different from IQ. They are related, but people with eidetic memory are not necessarily people with a skill for logic and reasoning. Give them a Trivial Pursuit game and they will win every game after the first one. Give them Chinese Finger Cuffs and they may starve to death.

But IQ, again IMO, is the ability to reason out difficult questions like "What Health Insurance Plan is best for me" or "How do I get my whole apartment loaded into the small U-haul truck" or "do you really save the planet by buying a new Prius?"

That's not "Street Smarts" to me.

 

[Geminii]

I've been feeling my IQ drop over the past two-three years, as I've been slacking off on the mental challenges. I was probably at my smartest-for-age at around twelve, I think.

One thing that irritated me for a long time was that almost every time I took an IQ test, it pegged me as just a couple of points under the genius level. Boy oh boy did I want that official genius recognition. Never cracked it, though, except in pissweak online tests of dubious value.

 

[ashitaria]

Ignore the bullsh!t about tests. Tests prove nothing except how much you know, nothing more. Allow me to explain?

IQ test tests your mathematical skills and pattern skills, and it seems to test the experience of your brain than with the natural "talent" of your brain. A person who is taking algebra or geometry will sure as hell score better on it than with a person learning poetry. Plus, IQ changes depending on what food you eat, whether you are in school currently, or how good your general knowledge is, so IQ tests cannot measure intelligence.

Creativity tests also have alot of things to do with your experience. Supposing they ask you a question, "How many ways can you think of to cross a bridge?"
It depends on the tools you have come across with or the lessons you learn, for example, the person who has never seen a kite in action will never think of the solution to fly the rope across the river or gap. A person who has never seen a tire floating on the water will be unlikely to come up with a solution related to such, while a person who has will recall, and write it down.

In my opinion true intelligence is when you give someone who has never seen, used or observed something or something in relation to that something and still manage to figure out it's purpose or come up with an ingenious way to use it. It's like being able to do the same job without tools while the person is struggling to do that job with tools. That's intelligence. But because of what I have stated, intelligence can never truly be measured, so I don't think an accurate intelligence test will come till another hundred years or so.

EDIT: In case you're wondering, I'm in the first year of high school, so don't expect me to have the same knowledge as college diplomats.

 

[Murphy1d]

Ignore the bullsh!t about tests. Tests prove nothing except how much you know, nothing more. Allow me to explain?

IQ test tests your mathematical skills and pattern skills, and it seems to test the experience of your brain than with the natural "talent" of your brain. A person who is taking algebra or geometry will sure as hell score better on it than with a person learning poetry. Plus, IQ changes depending on what food you eat, whether you are in school currently, or how good your general knowledge is, so IQ tests cannot measure intelligence.

I have a feeling you are confusing IQ with knowledge. Knowledge tests prove how much you KNOW. People who take Poetry classes will definitely score higher on Poetry tests than people who do not.

Intelligence Quotient tests estimate your ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, etc. The result is a number that gives an estimate of where you sit in relation to your peers. Thus, if you take the test at the age of 6 you will inevitably answer a higher # of questions correctly if you took it again at age 17. But in relation to your peers you would likely be in about the same range of +/- 3 to 5 points.

But, again, it is not a picture of your knowledge at any age. It is a gauge for how well you solve problems. And, yes, people who study IQ tests can probably score higher on them than people who don't, but that's because they KNOW what to look for (knowledge) vs people who take the test and REASON what the answer is.

It's the difference between figuring out a riddle and knowing the answer. If you figure this one out without knowing or Googling, then you probably have a head for reasoning. "What is it that, after you take away the whole, some still remains."

Spoiler

the word "wholesome"

 

[BigApplePi]

Agent Intellect

I assume there are many kinds of intelligences. For example musical, kinesthetic, mathematical, social, verbal, etc. What is intelligence? I'd say it is the capacity to do stuff. We still have to define that. The T part of INTP gives INTP's an advantage I suppose, but only in the thinking area.

I'd give you high ratings for verbal since you cover a lot of ground in your Q.

 

[ashitaria]

I have a feeling you are confusing IQ with knowledge. Knowledge tests prove how much you KNOW. People who take Poetry classes will definitely score higher on Poetry tests than people who do not.

Intelligence Quotient tests estimate your ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, etc. The result is a number that gives an estimate of where you sit in relation to your peers. Thus, if you take the test at the age of 6 you will inevitably answer a higher # of questions correctly if you took it again at age 17. But in relation to your peers you would likely be in about the same range of +/- 3 to 5 points.

But, again, it is not a picture of your knowledge at any age. It is a gauge for how well you solve problems. And, yes, people who study IQ tests can probably score higher on them than people who don't, but that's because they KNOW what to look for (knowledge) vs people who take the test and REASON what the answer is.

It's the difference between figuring out a riddle and knowing the answer. If you figure this one out without knowing or Googling, then you probably have a head for reasoning. "What is it that, after you take away the whole, some still remains."

Spoiler

the word "wholesome"

I know what IQ tests are but thanks....
True, but there IQ tests have a what do you say, "Heterogeneous" kind of format, meaning that there may be more type of questions than the other type, but I have only taking online tests so my knowledge is limited. And, as I have said in my previous post, knowledge does affect IQ tests. How well you solve problems can also be affected by your knowledge because there must have been sometime in your life whereby you have solved similar problems and came up with similiar solutions. You don't necessarily need to study IQ tests to score well on it. As I said, a person studying algebra would score better than a person studying poetry. Learning facts also affect your IQ tests, because yeah, IQ tests test your general knowledge too.

IQ tests, if you read more into it, tests onlyacademic intelligence, in other words, if you have been paying attention in school, you would do well on it. Academic intelligence is different from natural aptitude or in other words, "Intelligence" Sure, it does tests problem-solving, but it tests "mathematical" problem solving, which can easily be determined in what you learn in math class especially in IMP, which is a class that emphasizes on problem solving.

Riddles on the other hand can also be affected by knowledge, though not as much as IQ tests. Riddles force you think, for example,

What gets bigger the more you take out of it?

The answer is clearly a hole, and most people take a period of analysation and thought to get to it. But people, let's say, diggers remember digging a hole, they will most certainly get the answer.

IQ tests rarely test abstractedness. Maybe it's due to the limited IQ tests I took, or the limited knowledge of IQ tests, but the tests I remember taking did not have any questions related to testing abstractedness.

And rarely do I mention my intuition, but I think you are being bios towards the subject of IQ tests being inaccurate.

Not that I mean any offense though.

EDIT: IQ tests doesn't determine your natural ability to succeed either.

When I was a small kid, I took an IQ test and got 125, (had just recently sorted through the family medical history) that I didn't know was an IQ test. Yet, I don't go around telling people that I am smart, nor do I think that I am smart. I think that it's rather stupid that just because you get a high score on a test means you are smart. So screw the tests.

Intelligence is an extremely broad subject. Take that into account, and you will find that you are neither smarter or dumber than anyone else( except for people with brain deficiencies).

I think that people who think that they are better than anyone else are arrogant, narcissistic people. It doesn't mean that you do well on tests that you are more intelligent than anybody else. It just means that you are better in one category than someone else, and it might just be because you like that subject. Would you be good in something you don't like?