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how obssessed with money is your country/society

sushi

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on a scale to 1 to 12

here i would rank 10- to 11



almost 70% of conversation will result in something about money and bussiness
 

onesteptwostep

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The zeitgeist of today's era is certainly capitalistic, if we look at our history in the array of eras that have gone by, meaning that the spirit of mammon is quite the biggest ethos that grips the psyche of the modern citizen. However, I would say that its more power and ambition at the top, that guides these narratives and sentiments. Nationalistic fervor lends to these sentiments, but a true patriot always doesn't think in monetary or economic terms.

If there isn't any other guiding philosophy or purpose for ones life, the default mindset that secular society programs into you is money- thus getting the right career, right education, right capitalistic, competitive mindset, and so on is seemingly paramount- but often destructive or misleading.

I would say the sentiment and how one answer this question depends on who you surround yourself with. If its with business people, which tend to be employed adult males, yes, conversations can lean that way. If you surround yourself with family, money is more of a secondary concern, and that well being is the first.

I would say that my own country places kinship at the highest priority, but the high single adult population points to a more independent future where kinship may be not the most forte or leading longing. It is concerning. But overall, South Korea is not obsessed with money. We know pain, suffering, and angst, but at the same time, we had times when we were able to overcome these turmoils. The Korean War, the militarial dictatorships, the Asian Financial Crisis, the US housing bubble aka the 2008 Financial Crisis, and currently COIVD-19.

The qualitative measure is sort of meaningless to me, but if I were to haphazardly put a finger on a number, it would be around 6 or 7.
 

sushi

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i understand, but its not just people, the media and newspaper is surrounded with discussions of money and stock market. you get the general atmosphere money matters.

success is equated with wealth , above all else. i
 

onesteptwostep

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Success is not equated with wealth.

Imagine a tribe of monkeys. Is the monkey with the most bananas the most successful?
 

sushi

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monkeys dont have property rights, we have capitalism and banks.

also if other monkeys are starving or suffering scarcity counts
 

onesteptwostep

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You are not understanding the underlying thrust of the question. What is success? You claim that success equates to wealth.

What does that success mean? What is the nature of success?
 

moody

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12, but I don't really have to think too hard about it. I'm pretty disgusted with my country right now. Not that I haven't been for the past four years, but I've reached a new level of repulsion recently.
 

sushi

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You are not understanding the underlying thrust of the question. What is success? You claim that success equates to wealth.

What does that success mean? What is the nature of success?

success means internal expectations or external expectations defined by society?

if by internal expectations it means reaching your personal goals, if by external it means having enough income to survive and prosper, and owning some property, pr in most extreme cases becoming wealthy or hihg net worth
 

onesteptwostep

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Well, now we're getting somewhere :)

I don't see much of a difference between internal or external success, because inside, we're all human and want the same thing- fulfillment. That level of fulfillment differs from person to person (and we can also, we as in a general way of saying it, delve more into that separately), but generally the ones defined by society is not something that really fulfills someone, it merely provides content. That person will be content with the situation he or she is in, but not always fulfilled.

At first you posited that success means wealth, or in other words, that success means having a lot of money, or net worth. To me, that definitely isn't the case. Like, if so, Elon Musk wont be commenting on political matters like an egoistic little brat. xD

I mean, to elaborate on that, if wealth meant success, and success meant fulfillment, then why dip your soul into politics? He obviously wants something more than wealth, whether he acknowledge that that "want" is a conscious action or not. In other words, his actions may be because of a more subconscious want. IDK if you keep up with US politics and the characters in their society, but yeah, lots of idiots running around trying to fix things, but only making things worse. People have their limits; you know.
 

EndogenousRebel

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I don't wanna judge anyone I don't know so I wont. Plus: greed, envy, and pride are so apparent they make the bible seem insightful, so the question is flawed to begin with.

The people I know though, they don't really give two shits about money. They just want what money gets them. Houses, Cars, clothes, cigarettes, access to entertainment. I personally think horders of debit are rare, at least un-common.

Anyone doing anything with the purposeful conclusion of "I'm getting money because I want more money" is sick, but there is nothing wrong with desires, ambitions, or dreams. If humans didn't seek what we wanted, we wouldn't be where we are at in society right now.
 

onesteptwostep

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Bingo. Fulfillment is what drives the human race. But what are these type of fulfillment, and are they all considered good for us? It's a very mercurial question, but something that honestly and wholeheartedly needs to be addressed.
 

washti

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At first you posited that success means wealth, or in other words, that success means having a lot of money, or net worth. To me, that definitely isn't the case. Like, if so, Elon Musk wont be commenting on political matters like an egoistic little brat. xD
Wealth depends on politics and public perception. That's why Elon cares to comment. He doesn't have wealth in cash but in investor trust for his bussiness efectivness. Also government dictate rules for bussiness by writing law. His companies are depending on govs subsides and preferential treatment.
 

ZenRaiden

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Not sure why thinking or talking about money should count as obsession. Id rather talk about money than something mindless and mind numbing that wont matter to me in 4 seconds after discussion.
I certainly would not talk about money with someone who has no clue though.
I certainly have enough headspace to talk about money and other things with people.

Maybe your problem is that you have not found the right people or group to talk about what you are interested in.
I know very few people who are obsessed with money. The ones that do have them do not talk about it generally.
 

ZenRaiden

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At first you posited that success means wealth,
We work and get money and with money we get stuff that we need to feed and shelter ourselves and people we love. That is big part of success however you look at it.
Survival is part of life, and money gives us big part of that. Having money thus is important no matter how one looks at it. Unless you have a option to survive without money, you have to work. Most people have to work most days of the year to survive.
Having lot of money can mean you have better health, better lifestyle, more safety, and overall better life. It certainly is important, and judging people who talk about money as if it is bad is weird compared to people who talk about meaningless shit that wont make their life better in no way and work a job that does not even satisfy them mentally or financially.
 

nanook

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I dont really know people, but it always seemed to me, that most conversations are about the relationships between employee and employer and in between employees. So, in a word, relationships. And power may be the most difficult aspect of relationships. I find it utterly hilarious, that nobody understands the monetary system, meaning whether authoritative power over the market, legally or practically, is in the hand of banks or government, nationally or globally. This subject is discussed by supposed intellectuals, as if it were a religious question, that we have to remain agnostic about, at the end of brainstorming. In other words, people are utterly incompetent at talking about money, if you ask me. Obviously i don't know any better, to the contrary.
 

sushi

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Not sure why thinking or talking about money should count as obsession. Id rather talk about money than something mindless and mind numbing that wont matter to me in 4 seconds after discussion.
I certainly would not talk about money with someone who has no clue though.
I certainly have enough headspace to talk about money and other things with people.

Maybe your problem is that you have not found the right people or group to talk about what you are interested in.
I know very few people who are obsessed with money. The ones that do have them do not talk about it generally.
Discussion about money, but only on a very superficial level. such as where can i make money selling stuff, or winning the lottery or horse race. not in the way money works or economics, although the news and media talk about macroeconomics and stalk market.
 

BurnedOut

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Oh sushi, we belong to the same nationality and probably both belong to the bourgeoisie. Tell me what can you expect from a bourgeoisie in an era of hyperreality ? When you don't have anything tangible to believe in and when religiosity is miffed by your constant fear of becoming poor, what would you cling on to ? Capital. Because it is the only real entity out there.

The next of kin and any subtree of kin that you may consider are not as closely bonded with you as you think. It is not the precapitalist era where relationships mattered very much. Not to say that we have all become emotionally retarded but we are deteriorating at a fast pace.

Let us be honest. When even your next of kin asks for a big sum, it makes you gawk. It is almost as if you are donating a liter (when you really are not) of blood despite knowing that it is neither going to kill you nor cause much inconvenience in your life. Now, tell me if helping someone required endless requests and cries and submissions in the era before the modern one.

We don't have a lack of imposters and charlatans who parade that the possession of more money makes you a 'winner.'. In a consumerist era such as this, you are entrained to look for the maximum benefit and simultaneously led to believe that it is impossible to do so. But such deterrence is also, at the same time, is discouraged. To be honest, there are not really many choices. Having 10 million different tech companies does not make sense. It is just product differentiation. You want choices ? You got it. You want originality ? That's unlikely. But you want uniformity ? Got it. Getting fat ? Get thin. Not getting thin ? Try XXX food.


Imagine the amount of perversion of our mind that has already taken place. We spend our time reading and thinking and getting anxious about things that are usually out of our control or are not relationships. But then we don't want to lose out on our personal life either.

The thing is that, this dialectic is proving to be impossible to solve. People are going under either financially or mentally. The ones who have renounced everything are barred from sharing their insights with anyone because they are not enlightened but demented in this era.


Now tell me, if money matters more or not.
 
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