• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

How life affects Sensing/iNtuition

boondockbabe

I am a little cold hearted
Local time
Today 6:37 AM
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
342
---
Location
BFE Missouri
Having faced humiliation and sometimes extreme emotional/physical abuse for ten plus years of my life. I have been wondering for awhile.
MY question is this: How much would this affect your Sensing/iNtuition.
This is somthing serious to a few of us who have been pm about it and I said I would start a thread. personal stories are welcome as long as they add insight.
for example I am practical but just because I am too jaded to be idealistic.

I have added a link comparing the two to help out. I know there is much more info out there but mabye this will help get things started
http://www.mypersonality.info/personality-types/sensing-intuition/

How much do external factors affect our personalities?
 

boondockbabe

I am a little cold hearted
Local time
Today 6:37 AM
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
342
---
Location
BFE Missouri
This is somthing Hadoblado also commented on last night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadoblado
I'f you're talkin MB type, I'm fairly certain a strong case for environmental influence could be made. For example, intro/extraversion could be significantly altered through a life changing event. What if an extravert is humiliated repeatedly for 10 years, would they still want to express themselves?
 

digital angel

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 7:37 AM
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
554
---
Location
Tax World/In my Mind
I would try to look at these events as opportunities for change. Specifically, try to take a look at your options. I was married once; what little I remember is probably not worth remembering. I divorced. I've been happily single for about 10 years. I'm a tax attorney and looking forward to having the career I want.
 

xbox

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 1:37 AM
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
1,101
---
I asked my clinical psychologist and she said that certain life experiences can change a person significantly from E to I or vice versa, if thats even possible. But temperaments are something that last a lifetime, different from personality. There are even different spectrums within E & I.

For awhile I knew I was always different, because of the weird stuff that I did as a child, and the stories my parents told me. I can make a giant hilarious list of the stuff I did as a child. It really fit into the INTP description of me that I am now as well. It can also be that our temperaments dictate how we behave in certain circumstances.
 

digital angel

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 7:37 AM
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
554
---
Location
Tax World/In my Mind
I asked my clinical psychologist and she said that certain life experiences can change a person significantly from E to I or vice versa, if thats even possible. But temperaments are something that last a lifetime, different from personality. There are even different spectrums within E & I.

For awhile I knew I was always different, because of the weird stuff that I did as a child, and the stories my parents told me. I can make a giant hilarious list of the stuff I did as a child. It really fit into the INTP description of me that I am now as well. It can also be that our temperaments dictate how we behave in certain circumstances.

Agreed(you can find spectrums in the other initials of temperment too). I think I always knew I was different. I just didn't fit in, despite my attempts. Now, I don't try to fit in much. Generally speaking, I get along well with others; perhaps I'm in a bit of a niche because I'm in the tax law profession. I get along well with all the tax lawyers (and lawyers) I know; we speak the language of law...or tax law(we all have a graduate degree or two).

There are things that I definitely won't do. For example, I don't plan on ever being in a relationship. I love my career. I've definitely been an I (introvert) my whole life. I've also definitely been an intellectual my whole life.
 

sammael

Adrift
Local time
Tomorrow 1:37 AM
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
234
---
External factors can definitely have a big influence and effect on our personality type. I don't believe our preference ever changes, but I believe the more familiar we become (for whatever reason) with both sides of each dichotomy, in particular the non-preferred, the easier and less draining it becomes to use. The more proficient we become with practice and development, the more behaviorally flexible we will become.

I also have well developed sensing, because I was born into a predominantly sensing family and brought up in a sensing/practical world where intuition was not valued or important. I believe this has come at some cost to my intuition, as the time spent developing the sensing side took away from time developing my intuition. However I still much prefer intuition, and it is far more natural.

Likewise with introversion/extraversion, I find the more I interact with people, the easier it becomes. This is partly because of my ability to analyze and work out how social interaction works, and therefore how to do it better, and partly because it would seem familiarity makes me more comfortable, and therefore the situation less draining. But i am still very much the loner, not needing people and needing/preferring a lot of time to myself/alone.

To the situation you described, I have no doubt humiliation and abuse of any kind would affect personality type (but not change preference) to varying degrees depending on the type, severity, situation and the individual. I can see how it could perhaps promote intuition (through imagination/creation of a better world/life in one's head) or suppress it (if it became impossible because of the situation to look to the future, or imagine other possibilities, or suppression of ideals, as mentioned).

On a side note, i strongly dislike ideals because they are inherently illogical and unrealistic, saying idealistic is an intuitive characteristic is relative. I would suggest the reason why an INTP may be practical has a lot more to do than the suppression of positive thoughts of the future, but yes, suppression of intuition could lead to a better developed sensing function, and therefore a more practical individual, which I think is what you were getting at.
 

boondockbabe

I am a little cold hearted
Local time
Today 6:37 AM
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
342
---
Location
BFE Missouri
Likewise with introversion/extraversion, I find the more I interact with people, the easier it becomes. This is partly because of my ability to analyze and work out how social interaction works, and therefore how to do it better, and partly because it would seem familiarity makes me more comfortable, and therefore the situation less draining. But i am still very much the loner, not needing people and needing/preferring a lot of time to myself/alone.

To the situation you described, I have no doubt humiliation and abuse of any kind would affect personality type (but not change preference) to varying degrees depending on the type, severity, situation and the individual. I can see how it could perhaps promote intuition (through imagination/creation of a better world/life in one's head) or suppress it (if it became impossible because of the situation to look to the future, or imagine other possibilities, or suppression of ideals, as mentioned).

On a side note, i strongly dislike ideals because they are inherently illogical and unrealistic, saying idealistic is an intuitive characteristic is relative. I would suggest the reason why an INTP may be practical has a lot more to do than the suppression of positive thoughts of the future, but yes, suppression of intuition could lead to a better developed sensing function, and therefore a more practical individual, which I think is what you were getting at.

That is closesly to the conversation I has with my therapist today

lot of therapy going on here :)

And we had a rather lenghty discussion on this subject. It seems you can adapt when your survival depends on it. Extroversion is part of survival when you must depend on others. And you are right -It was my ability to analyze the people and and social situations that brought it out. It was because of this "strain" that all parts of my personality were altered. So anything is possible if things are "unbalanced".
And the real traits do return once the situation has"stabilized". I have had no panic attaks or severe bouts of depression in over a year. But therapy and a long "break" has helped alot. I spent most of the winter in meditation and self-reflection.
 

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Local time
Today 7:37 PM
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
1,857
---
Location
th
Interesting...

This is going to be Hitler-ish.

I would say INTP is probably the only unalterable personality. A dead end if you would consider personality types are affected by environment.

Talk about abuse:

You could verbally abuse someone into an I from an E.

You could physically abuse someone into an N from an S.

You could emotionally abuse someone into a T from an F.

You could sabotage someones plans until they become into a P from a J.


I just can't see it the other way.

You'd need a really sick mind to go E from I.

You'd need to be so troubled with your mind going haywire everytime you come up with a theory to go into S from N.

You would need to meditate for a thousand years to go F from T.

You would need immensely strong personality to go from P to J. (I mean who the fuck will un-enlighten themselves??)


So in this Nazi style, we are indeed the last possibility after environment gives us hell.

Let's make an army and give them hell!!

Yeah! fuck it, not now.

But yeah it is pissing off to think like that but really its a reason why I think environment doesn't effect personality. I highly doubt every tortured human being is a cynical lazy bastard writing, drawing crazy shit, and hurling himself into serious danger because he can't feel alive.

But. Joker is an ENTP or INTP. So Marvel comics support environmental MBTI.

They say he is ENTP and that would mean he had disgusting or too complicated thoughts.

Very Nazi, but that is the chain I have drawn for this idea.

Therefore, I let go of environmental influences for the most part.
 

boondockbabe

I am a little cold hearted
Local time
Today 6:37 AM
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
342
---
Location
BFE Missouri
Interesting...

This is going to be Hitler-ish.

I would say INTP is probably the only unalterable personality. A dead end if you would consider personality types are affected by environment.

Talk about abuse:

You could verbally abuse someone into an I from an E.

You could physically abuse someone into an N from an S.

You could emotionally abuse someone into a T from an F.

You could sabotage someones plans until they become into a P from a J.


I just can't see it the other way.

You'd need a really sick mind to go E from I.

You'd need to be so troubled with your mind going haywire everytime you come up with a theory to go into S from N.

You would need to meditate for a thousand years to go F from T.

You would need immensely strong personality to go from P to J. (I mean who the fuck will un-enlighten themselves??)

Welcome to the last TWENTY YEARS of my life. Its majorly FUCKED-UP and really UNFAIR, but as they say life is unfair. and I dont want to talk about the medications-they made things worse. (probably because this is not an illness-it is an un-balance.

Think for a moment... How far would YOU go to survive. I mean really survive. What would you be willing to do to keep a roof over your head. or food in your stomache. How about clothes for your siblings? How about heat in the middle of a sub freezing winter. Its nice to think things don't ever get this fucked up but ...They have, they do and they will
. I did what I had to do to survive. and that is the other reason I started this post. To bring attention to the situation. I'm not the only one..there are others here who are having a difficult time. This is about a change in personality being caused or influenced by outside factors. It does happen and I hope this helps those who have not figured this out yet. If you can recognize the in-balances, you can figure out what is causing them and then you can work on re-balance.
 

boondockbabe

I am a little cold hearted
Local time
Today 6:37 AM
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
342
---
Location
BFE Missouri
Remember, you can leave the past behind and never look back, if you want to.


I want to. Nobody told me I could. The only thing I ever heard for the longest time was that B.S. about the "past making you who you are today". Now I know differently. The past can influence who we are today, but only so much as we give it power to. We are who we are and nothing can change that unless we let it. I'm not gonna let it anymore.
 

A22

occasional poster
Local time
Today 12:37 PM
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
601
---
Location
Brazil
One of the xSxx characteristics is realism. Seeing the world as it is and being focused on facts. xSxx types could be more frequent in people who suffer from discrimination, exclusion, pain or depression. It is hard to be idealistic or positive when you're miserable. Some statistics have been posted here. It's a shame it's not socialeconomics.
 

boondockbabe

I am a little cold hearted
Local time
Today 6:37 AM
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
342
---
Location
BFE Missouri
It's hard to be Idealistic when you've seen the dark side for so long. My perception of the world will never be the same. It can't. I know whats out there. Lurking in the shadows. You can't be nice to it or it will eat you. :phear:

I do miss the idealism. But It is better to survive than be eaten because I refused to see the writing on the wall.
I wish the world was a better place. I really do. I would not wish this knoweldge of reality on anyone. It is not fair that some have to suffer while others have it all. But that is the reality of the situation. It's just not fair.
I don't like it , but I will survive it. and I will be stronger.
And I will not let someone suffer if I can help it. I will make up for my realism by helping the broken-

lightbulb!
My idealism lies in the thought that mabye others can learn from my suffering. If others can learn from my pain and experience, then all is not lost. There is hope. mabye I can make a difference through my experiences. Mabye just mabye if we all work toghether we Can save the world :)

Iv'e lost it. I'm gonna overanalyze this puppy to the ground.:crazy:
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 12:37 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
3,384
---
Interesting...

This is going to be Hitler-ish.

I would say INTP is probably the only unalterable personality. A dead end if you would consider personality types are affected by environment.

Talk about abuse:

You could verbally abuse someone into an I from an E.

You could physically abuse someone into an N from an S.

You could emotionally abuse someone into a T from an F.

You could sabotage someones plans until they become into a P from a J.
Actually, it's not that hard.

Emotional and mental associations are formed by a combination of intensity and frequency. Once they have been established, however small, they can be reversed by reconditioning, by the same stimulus a second time, but without the effect. However, if the intensity of the stimulus in the second case, is much lower than the intensity of the original effect in the first case, then the more intense association takes priority, and the mind now recalls the association of the stimulus with the effect, at a lower, but still potent, intensity of the original association. Now, the feedback loop of the mind takes over, and the association is reinforced by the mind itself, because the original association, and the later recall, the both happen inside the mind, and so the mind cannot distinguish between the experienced association and the recalled association. Provided the association is experienced again on a semi-repeated basis, enough to just top it up to its current level, the association stays at its current level, and becomes self-perpetuating.

The topping-up effect doesn't even have to happen with the originator of the association. Provided that the association produces a behavioural response in the conditioned person, that results in others in their environment, whether locally IRL, or online, to have a similar response that provides the same effect in response to the stimluli, often enough, with such intensity, that the self-reinforced association keeps being topped up to the level required for self-perpetuation, then it continues to be self-perpetuating, long after the originator of the association has ceased to perpetuate the cycle. All that requires, is that the association would cause the conditioned person to act, in such a way, because of the virtual effect, that the other people in their environment would produce the same effect, because of the response of the conditioned person. The mind of the conditioned person would immediately revert to observe "stimulus-real effect", and reinforce the association as required for self-perpetuation, because that is the prioritised association, and ignore the other possibility that it was "response-effect", as the end product of the "stimulus-virtual effect-response-real effect".

Say that you want someone to associate seeing bees with absolute terror. All you have to do, is just scream really loud when a bee comes near. Then, the subject will get scared because of the scream. Then, the subject associates the bee with fear, and the scream is associated with the fear. Then, every time the subject sees a bee, she will feel fear, which will replay the scream inside her mind, and the association is reinforced.

It can be months between bee sightings, and during that time, the stimulus never happens, and so the association remains almost entirely in statis. As soon as the bee is sighted, all the old feelings return.

Were the subject to be then around people, who never scream when bees are around, then each time a bee appears, the virtual scream is associated, but with a lesser effect each time. Over time, the effect lessens. But it lessens slowly, because the appearance of a bee is not particularly intense, and the lack of reaction is not that intense either.

Were the subject to be then around people, where some of them scream when bees are around, then, most of the time, the effect dissipates, but slowly, and the few times that the scream is heard, it reinforces the association back to its current level.

Were the subject to be then around people, who never scream when bees are around, then each time a bee appears, the subject then feels the fear, and then moves about nervously, the bee is likely to take these quick movements, that are made by something gigantic to its viewpoint, hundreds of times its size, and is likely to see this as an extremely hostile gesture, that requires the bee to do whatever it can to protect itself. It will be likely to fly in an aggressive manner, and possibly sting the subject, as this approach generally seems to get other species to back off. A severe sting will be interpreted as pain by the subject, that will result in the subject feeling added fear the next time they see a bee. Even if the bee merely moves aggressively, the mere fact that this movement brings the bee into more likelihood of stinging the subject, will bring up fear that the subject could be stung. Both will increase the level of fear in response to the bee, and thus increases the association, topping it up as required.

Even if you do see lots of bees, and nothing happens, the de-conditioning is not intense, and so is very slow. So only one top-up experience in several months, can be enough to reinforce the conditioning.

Now, you might wonder who would be cruel enough to do all this? Most of it has been done by your own mind. The other person merely has to believe they are acting in your best interest, by screaming at a young child, to warn her that bees are dangerous.

Sometimes, I think our brains ought to come with a training manual.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 12:37 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
3,384
---
Having faced humiliation and sometimes extreme emotional/physical abuse for ten plus years of my life. I have been wondering for awhile.
MY question is this: How much would this affect your Sensing/iNtuition.
The abuse and humiliation is neutral. It entirely depends on the association it is making to the subject.

For instance, if every time someone has an insight, you humiliate them, such as by saying "Why do you always have to say the most stupid of things?", then they come to associate insight with humiliation. Thus, they become an S.

If every time someone acts based on their observations, you humiliate them, such as by saying "You never do anything right", then they come to associate sensing with humiliation. Thus, they become an N.
 

Artsu Tharaz

The Lamb
Local time
Today 11:37 PM
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
3,134
---
You don't just change from one type to another. Rather, the means of expression of your functions is altered. If you are not in an environment which facilitates your interaction with it, then your functions are going to lack grounding, and will end up not functioning as well as they could.

You're not changing the degree of function use by changing how people create a link between their functions and the social environment, rather you're simply changing how people create a link between their functions and the social environment.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 12:37 PM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
3,384
---
AFAIK, left-handedness is purely genetic. Until the mid-80s, there were a lot of lefties, who had their left hand tied behind their back by their teachers, until they did everything right-handed. They remained so for life. I even knew one in uni.
 

Vecho

Member
Local time
Today 2:37 PM
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
86
---
The abuse and humiliation is neutral. It entirely depends on the association it is making to the subject.

For instance, if every time someone has an insight, you humiliate them, such as by saying "Why do you always have to say the most stupid of things?", then they come to associate insight with humiliation. Thus, they become an S.

If every time someone acts based on their observations, you humiliate them, such as by saying "You never do anything right", then they come to associate sensing with humiliation. Thus, they become an N.

Are you saying that we do not take actions for humiliation or promotion but purely by association? If so then this would be objective but could it be that our actions,which are praised or criticized, just change the way S or N reacts to situation. Maybe the preference doesn't change but it's way of working changes? Instead of recognizing outcome #1 it recognizes outcome #2
 

SkyWalker

observing y'all from my UFO. inevitably coming dow
Local time
Today 1:37 PM
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
986
---
AFAIK, left-handedness is purely genetic. Until the mid-80s, there were a lot of lefties, who had their left hand tied behind their back by their teachers, until they did everything right-handed. They remained so for life. I even knew one in uni.

I like this analogy. It makes the point.

By pure chance you are pointed in some direction (whether left/right hand or MBTI type), its easiest to develop yourself in that direction. The more you develop it, the more it becomes an addiction. The more you develop it, the less time is left for the other directions, thus the other directions get underdeveloped.
you could develop them, yet it is a painful route to rehabilitate. why use left to write if your right hand does the job?? well yes if you train, then you could write with 2 hands.... but who needs it?

Changing your type is like telling a skin cell to become a brain cell. A stem cell can become any one of them, but once it's one of them then the road back is hard.
Like your cells become specialist in the body, so do we humans become specialists in the society of types.

genes probably have some slight influence on it. but the environment has probably a bit more influence, WHILE YOU ARE DEVELOPING. once developed, its hard to change, no matter what environment (unless you really get stuck and burn inside of hellish pain).
 

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Local time
Today 7:37 PM
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
1,857
---
Location
th
I don't think I could turn into an ISTJ for example if I am asked to do a job that is very SJish. Even after long years, you won't be as good of an SJ as you are NT. Once the job or environment is over and you are more required for NT you will snap back into it violently.

It is like having a strict teacher leaving the room. You go berserk when he or she isn't around.
 
Top Bottom