How do I dislike people less?

[Drvladivostok]

The more I'm involved with social situations the more I run the risk of being entagled in everyone elses drama, when I try to approach the problem logically and objectively if it contradict with their preconcieved thought, people shut me down, they don't recognize the faults of their reasoning, they play convoluted social games like two faced hypocrites and cover them up with lies and social attacks, people call me naive for being honest and not engage with their games, but they said they value sincerity.
All these social games are exausting, I tried to understand their motives, how their games work, I even enagage with these office politics level stupidity, but the more I understand the more I dislike these people.
On one hand I don't want to be a friendless hermit, but on the other I can't help but feel disdain for everyone.

How do you guys do it? How do you unchain yourself from tolerating their antics to actually engaging with them in a frequent basis? I understand the older I get the more I need to interract with people because the proffesion that I chose (lawyer), but I don't think I'll ever engage with everyone else other than through chameleoning my way through their bullshit and feeling intense dislike.

 

[Black Rose]

everyone hurts my feelings and I can't do anything about it because I am too stupid. everything I say makes me look stupid. I wish I could shut down. This is the first time I've cried this much in a year.

 

[Black Rose]

you're not supposed to dislike people less. not the dislikable ones.

 

[Rook]

add more salt

 

[dr froyd]

this is a recurring issue for me too, here's my 2 cents:

- it is true that if one compares the average human to the ideal of a human, one should be gravely disappointed. Most people are irrational, non-thinking beings who mostly operate on emotions and instincts. The question is: why would one care about that? If one can accept that fish, birds, dogs, etc, each have their own way of living, how can most people be "wrong" about how they are living? I say accept that humans are much close to apes than most people are willing to admit, and stop caring about whether people live according to ones's own rules and principles. Have strong ethics for yourself, accept all other external things for what they are.

- when one feels the need to gain social approval of people that one simultaneously feels disdain for, one lives inauthentically. That's not just a psychological cost to oneself - it's also counterproductive as people tend to sense that there's something off about the way you interact with them. It's only when one 1) stops caring about social approval from everyone, and 2) feeling disdain for everyone, that one becomes ready to actually gain social connections

 

[onesteptwostep]

Get a girl, it usually helps take the edge off.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I dislike interactions.
Probably main reason I always preferred forums.
For the longest time I could not understand why I avoid people, and generally recently I found a new text on schizoid.
While I understood the list of symptoms for schizoid I did not understand the underlying reasons for behaviors.

Its not hard liking people, but you don't have to like or bond with people to interact with them. I can interact with lots of people and be ok with it.

The issue is what the interaction is about.
Interactions that feel like chores, and where you mentally check out and really are not present in the moment or you are "fake enjoying it" its not my thing.
I also don't like interacting with people over small talk, or food, though I like food.
There is just something I was always told to do "social expectation and something " I did, because its nice.
The problem is deep down I usually feel like hostage or slave in those situations where I am really not engaged or even remotely enjoying the moment just bored or stressed pretending to enjoy it.
Sometimes you have to do it, sometimes you are trying to do it, because everyone does.
However I just don't feel some kin ship or bond, because I talked with someone over some beer or enjoyed a conversation talking about something uninteresting that generally can only be interesting once a time.

Between being hostage of random social interaction and hating or being bored in these situations pretending to like it, I prefer being bored alone.

At least I can choose the type of bored activity I rather do, and let my mind wonder and relax a little.

Peopling is overrated.

I always tried engage in peopling, but recently found the text about schizoid and it all falls into place.
I also don't really get the concept of doing nothing with people.
If I want to do nothing I prefer to do it alone, with people I prefer doing something at least somewhat meaningful, like hike or run or whatever.
Generally though these activities are kind of fun more alone anyhow lol.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

If people shut you down and don't value your thinking then you hang out with bad people. You might have to go through hundreds of people before you find a perfect match of friends or partners. A toxic work environment is something you can choose to tolerate or not. In a sufficiently big work environment you are always going to get idiots and malicious individuals and there will be more of them the more you stand out from the group.

I'm not sure how amazing your work environment is, but I would say that finding friendly people at work is bullshit, close to impossible. People will play office politics and will try to involve you or use you at work, that's a large part of work, the pecking order. People will try to give you their share of work and try all sorts of tricks just because they're lazy or because you can't be assertive. One should probably expect friendly people elsewhere, but never for a second one should believe that they are a part of a corporate family or a work family. It's an illusion that only serves your superiors and gives you nothing, leaves you with nothing when they fire you.

In a group of any size I always had to deal with at least 10% malicious haters, people who disliked me or tried to get others to dislike me. But I was never the scapegoat, there were colleagues who were hated by more than 50% of people in my group and I usually felt like I needed to protect them rather than myself which was also exhausting. I got used to ignoring or dealing with malice if I couldn't outright quit the environment for a better one.

Switching jobs to a corporate environment with dress code, performance reviews and a high degree of professionalism, 'corporate inclusivity and diversity policies' actually made everyone curb their malicious behavior to tolerable levels because essentially ratting on others, reporting everything they did to superiors, was rewarded and people were highly encouraged to complain and snitch on their colleagues which had its upsides and downsides. As long as I was in the top 50% of performance and rule compliance then people couldn't use anything I did against me because everyone was aware of everything already. There was software installed that monitored how efficient I was at the task and my bosses went through my work to quantify and verify accuracy. There couldn't be any doubts about my work output so the only thing I had to do is keep it high. I hated the corporate environment for other reasons but there were no interpersonal issues for me.

A general dislike of other people, misanthropy, is a really unhealthy thing. It's a guaranteed recipe for a miserable, short and painful life.
Misanthropy if you are an independent person is without exceptions a problem that you're causing. It could be your poor choice of friends and acquaintances, not improving a harmful social environment, lack of social intelligence, a developmental disability or an antisocial life philosophy among other things. If someone hurt you in the past and now you hate everyone then you need to fix yourself too. Find the cause and address it if you want to, it's up to you and possibly your health professional to help you do that.

If you are dependent on others then they could be the cause of the limited toxic environment so in that case identifying harmful dependencies and cutting them off is required, you probably need outside help in this scenario.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Maybe try to see humans as being in a great big messy human school on earth learning different things and some of them don't even have souls. Most people are so concerned with status and perfect beauty and ego that you don't even want that kind of relationship. I worked in a cubby by myself and gave up the chase. Best I can say is don't try to create a relationship with anyone but yourself and your creator to begin with, ie, when you make yourself your own true love, other people will see how much respect and love and all the good things coming your way to yourself and they will sense and feel that and start chasing you. Say "Good things are coming my way" outloud every morning for 40 days and see what happens. Feel good things coming. // Try to match up to other INTP's that understand that you don't NEED to talk to connect?

Watch a lot of Christina Lopes videos, she is so enlightened.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Generally socializing is something beneficial if you know what you want.

Part of life is figuring out what you want socially and what is reasonable expectations.

I think as INTP I always thought of social situations "as if situations" more approached social interactions with a sort of experimental approach.

I think all people want to connect on some level.

Trouble is life does not automatically provide the type of social situations we thrive in.

That means a lot of time you can be socially disconnected, because its draining to interact in ways that provide no real connection.

I think everyone has this problem on some level.

Its just that the higher functioning people tend to achieve social benefits in greater variety of ways.

There is also a certain element of figuring out what is good for you.

I think I can safely say now days that I just don't enjoy socializing and I am fine with it.

So long as I get the energy to do my work, make money and motivate my self I am fine not having relationships with people.

I find most of my social interaction problems are really lack of flexibility.
I just don't enjoy the things other people do as much.

I often tried to act as if I care, but to no avail. I just don't care about the most common aspects of socializing.

The big problem is what to do with it.
Do you fake it till you make it, or just settle for less, but the real thing you enjoy.

I think its better to just enjoy fewer things, but really enjoy them, rather than expect it will change.

I can enjoy some social aspects of life sometimes, but honestly just because you enjoy them, does not mean you will enjoy them always or even enjoy them more than once.

I think the best thing is to set objectives that are real and concrete in social stuff.

The issue is that even if you remain indifferent socially to many situations, you need to learn to navigate things, because most people are not indifferent to many things.

Telling which things you can afford to be indifferent towards and which things do matter is the key.

Its also strangely easily to mislead or miscommunicate with people, if your view is different.

I mean the real question is what you want from socializing really.

And it is a two ways street.

My personal foundation I think is interpersonal security.

I also don't necessarily value the things other people do value, but I also don't want to make them feel bad about it so sometimes I act as if I care about what they are saying, because I don't think its worth being a completely indifferent to other peoples troubles, at the same time.

All people have some sort of problems.

Then again if you do act as if you care about other peoples problems, they may interpret this as if you actually do care, and then that is an issue too.

I mean INTP mind is more about problem solving, but we also like to analyze problems even if they have no immediate solution or value to us.

Because who knows one day you might figure out how to solve the problem.

Its also hard to tell what really people want from social interactions.

Some people like to complain, vent, problem solve, just shit talk or rehash realities, others like to commiserate, etc.

I think leading with Ti means you are likely to over analyze and over intellectualize situations as well come off weird in classic social situations.

Miscommunication in this sense is common and it can lead to both confusion or hurt feelings on both sides lol.

Fe is the last function this means you rarely are aware of your own feelings and others feelings.

Fe approaches situations in sense of working for adapting to group vibes, not necessarily, because you want to be part of group, but because Ti wants to add value to the group.

Unfortunately Fe is not a great function socially.

 

[ZenRaiden]

TO add I think Ti is usually not valuable in most common social situations, but we tend to lead with this function so its very hard for us to figure out how to turn of this function.
Since most social situations have zero value for Fe it explains why INTPs feel anxiety or don't like to interact with people overall.

So I guess the best way for INTPs to be social is through hobbies, but INTps can be very particular about doing stuff so sometimes its good to find solitary hobbies where you can do things your way with your Ti and use your full potential.

Unfortunately this for INTPs especailly younger ones means being mostly disconnected socially. Pick your poison lol.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Be gentle on yourself first of all and nurture and love yourself as you are. The world that we don't fit into is not much more than someone ELSE's dream. May as well develope your own dream. To fit in to that chaous, its about chasing after something else and is that worth it? There are endless things you have to do to fit in like keeping super fit and making beauty a priority and nice clothes and making people think you are worth knowing and keeping around or by being super entertaining and fun or talkative. If you aren't connected to one of those, maybe we just won't fit in to that world unless we get SO good at something that they can't live without us or what we do. So the hobby thing is a good idea, photography and sharing it and making yourself popular with whatever artistic talent you have somehow, writing, art, something and smiling and showing warmth. Just really appreciate your own talents is a starting place. They should see it too when you do that.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Another way to look at this is that Ti is lead function, but Ti is very slow to develop function, but without leading with Ti the Fe does not develop either.

This means INTPs that neglect developing their Ti function also neglect development of all other function such as Ne Si Fe.

Simply, put if you put your Ti function aside as if it does not work, and lets be honest in most situations especially early in life it does not, your Fe is not getting anywhere much in the way of development.

Ti function however is not a function that brings much value to INTP life until later in life.

Socially its also not a valuable function.

Now I am not saying its a bad function, but Ti value comes much later in life.
The fruits of this function are much much greater in later life.
In early life this function can be devalued by people and as consequence INTPs themselves can learn to devalue this function.
Unfortunately it cannot be a function that you can just turn off or push aside and act like it does not exists. Its always there and its always functioning.

Adding insult to injury this means INTPs don't really have positive social feeback for this function.

Usually the social feedback INTPs get exact contrast what INTPs are.
This means INTPs often can neglect their function in favor of trying to fit in or be in group and connect.

Ti is also a function that requires focus and hard work to be valuable, and it also needs to focus on things that get positive feedback and we know how to goes for INTPs who put Ti into anything, but the things they should with lower conscientiousness.

ITs also matter of principal that TI function is something that often has its own idiosyncratic functioning introverted so it kind of feels like the more you use this function the more of an outsider you are.

There are million positive ways to channel your Ti and have hobbies to develop Fe, unfortunately not all of those activities actually bring joy or are fun.
So its important to figure out which is which.

I think a lot of social advice or psychological advice goes straight against what INTPs generally need to develop.

So the real and only authentic way for INTPs to develop Ti is to really be comfortable to follow their own instincts and generally just not stop even if it makes other people dislike you or makes your social life less fun.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I'm continually finding that as with life in general, if you focus on negative aspects it will only get you so far.

You can write an infinite list of things that you have an issue with especially when it comes to people whos behavior are very much out of your control. It's an exercise of futility and you have a lifetime to look at the bad.

Instead focus on the good, whatever that means to you. This takes effort. Frame that goodness into something like a plant that you have to water and care for if you want it to bear fruit.

If you find you can only focus on bad things about people then you might literally have a pathological issue. If you can't socialize with ANYONE that is. We are social beings, but id say you don't really have to like more than 5 people as long as they are nearby.

 

[Daddy]

The trick is not to take yourself or other people too seriously. It's not always easy to do. Then you don't really care and you can kind of enjoy people for their antics and good joke material.

 

[Daddy]

Like being the Joker to your Batman.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

That's I guess two ends of an extreme.

Joker so non serious he has no real identity, meanwhile Batman takes himself so serious that he has to take on another persona to actualize his ostensibly fractured personality.

Pretty sure you want a healthy middle, leaning towards whatever is pro adaptive in your environment

 

[Daddy]

Nah, being Joker is way better than balance. He's "super-sane" in a mad world. But to each his own, I guess.

Quora - https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Jokers-super-sanity
"Joker's super sanity is the term used to refer to his particular brand of insanity. Joker knows that the whole world, life, society, is just a never ending carnival ride, and as he puts it, "Insanity is the emergency exit." By being crazy and ignoring morality, he has taken himself out of the equation, or off the ride. He can do anything, and he is aware of the nature of everything. It's not to the extent of Deadpool's fourth-wall breaking inanity, but he does see a pattern. For a little more on this, try reading "The Killing Joke". Definitely a worthwhile read."



The Killing Joke - https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/batman-killing-joke-ending-explained-movie-netflix
...
Ultimately, Batman refuses to believe he's anything like his nemesis, but the story ends with the Joker telling Batman a joke about two asylum inmates attempting to escape. When Joker reveals the punchline, the Dark Knight chuckles before he grabs the villain in a fit of laughter.

Here's the joke, which can be read as a metaphor for the relationship between Batman and Joker:

"See, there were these two guys in a lunatic asylum... and one night, one night they decide they don't like living in an asylum any more. They decide they're going to escape! So, like, they get up onto the roof and there, just across this narrow gap, they see the rooftops of the town, stretching away in the moonlight... stretching away to freedom. Now, the first guy, he jumps right across with no problem. But his friend, his friend daren't make the leap. Y'see... y'see, he's afraid of falling. So then, the first guy has an idea... He says 'Hey! I have my flashlight with me! I'll shine it across the gap between the buildings. You can walk along the beam and join me!' B-but the second guy just shakes his head. He suh-says... he says 'What do you think I am? Crazy? You'd turn it off when I was half way across!'"

This is in reference to Batman wanting to help Joker.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I don't think we're disagreeing, it's just that having the level of detachment that the joker does is impractical.

In the same vein being a hardcore Buddhist is not practical for our society.

Much like a Buddhist needs a temple to actually actualize themselves productively, joker needs a fucking asylum. His problem as a character is he is too interested in inflicting his internal state onto the external.

Meanwhile Batman is someone who let's the world change them and has his identity crises or whatever. The external weighs heavily on him that it effects his internal, and it's only when his psyche splits that he actualizes himself and inflicts his internal state onto the external. This is why Joker said that he's the same as Batman.

Idk I haven't read too much of the comics, I'm probably missing something, and the characters are interpreted and rewritten as muc has the bible at this point.
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker was epic.

 

[Daddy]

Much like a Buddhist needs a temple to actually actualize themselves productively, joker needs a fucking asylum.

ok i loled

Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker was epic.

i gotta see this now

 

[ZenRaiden]

Its kind of funny that psychology has such immense ability to describe psychological problems, hollywood has a whole psychology theme, and yet, somehow psychological problems still mystify people.

Like literally you know everything about something, but you cannot change it.

Like in biology you learn all these details about animals and organisms, and at the end of the day you know what it is and yet you know so very little.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Does it really matter though that is the question?
Why is liking people more or less any less than more?
Or to put it in exact terms, why is why if not why?
Or even better do you do if you do not less more if not more or less?
Preferably not as much as if?

 

[ZenRaiden]

See why is the key question if not what is not?

 

[sushi]

you really cant. That is the risk of relationship and dealing with someone you know a little about.

very few people are honest and transparent. you can only relate with people who you have an instinct that are similar to you.