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How accurate is this (defining Ti)

own8ge

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[FONT=&quot]Hello and sorry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The following will include my conclusions that I made out of self observation. Anything you read below, are unreliable facts/Nothing more than my perception (!)

My question is: How is my knowledge on the functional stack? In this case I will only be aiming for Ti.
Is it very twisted from reality? or is it quite accurate? I wonder, and wonder. :confused:
[/FONT]
Ti = Subjective thinking based on the objectivity that has been derived from their extraverted function(s) (for the INTP Ne or Fe). To think subjective/introverted, means: to think -> Draw conclusions of what you think -> Think about your conclusions -> Draw conclusions of what you think -> etc. (The further you think, the deeper you will think)

Ti (Subjective thinking) can only think about 1 thing at the time.
Let’s say Ti thinks about X, then X = internal logic about X.
Ti draws conclusions about what it thinks (in this case X), so Ti will draw conclusions from X.
But when thought through, X will still be X based on internal logic.
The only difference about X is, is how you perceive X: Now… your knowledge has expanded on X.

Ti on its self has no boundaries or limits. Everything can and will be of relevance. And everything that is thought of won’t have a specific goal (It is not a directive function).[/FONT]
 

Words

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I say it is almost perfect.

Maybe you need to elaborate more on the "thinking." How exactly is this process of drawing conclusions? How does it work? If it is simply in the form of 1 + 1 = 2, then yeah. A more precise word for it would be deduction.

Not sure about thinking about 1 thing at a time.

I like the no boundaries part. It's related to it's subjectivity. You can organize anything in any way you want. Also, the derivation from Ne or Fe.
 

Auburn

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I would say it's fair, but could be more refined.
Having no boundaries is actually not an attribute of judging functions. It is for perception functions. It is the judging functions that set the limits, draw the lines, pivot points on which things hinge.

Ti is a discriminating process. In the most fundamentally basic form, Ti is binary. It takes shades of grey of perception and divides into black and whites. It is the principle of:
if(this) {then this} else {this}


Now, the canvass Ti forms from these black and white pixels, when you zoom out, still end up looking like shades of gray, and colors -- but at their finest level there is a distinct difference and the high-Ti user is aware of this. Hence, a byproduct of this is Ti: clarity, and the capacity to explain things microscopically if needed. This is also the source of Ti confidence, as they know their rationale is rightly checked and valid at the most elementary level.

Some people think that thinking in black and whites is limiting, but only so if your tapestry of black and whites is so basic that it doesn't account for the complexity of life. But life can be coded in binary to high levels of complexity - which is what Ti does - that do adequately account for life. Just like a very complex if(else) algorithm.

But the level of complexity varies between Ti users, and how much of this sorting they've done, and how much data they've organized in this manner.

Common Secondary Effects of Ti:

Now I'm going to give you an example of this at work by zooming out a few levels, and show the practical effects of Ti as a lead process, particularly in TiNe...


Philosophers:

The tendency for Ti leads to become philosophers or epidemiologists stems from this affinity for algorithmic logic. Now philosophers are notoriously known to be mental-masturbaters. This is true in a sense.

Like programming/coding, so much of the detail of coding a proper algorithm goes unappreciated until there is a tactile application. As with Ti, it does not produce any fruits until the algorithm it builds gets so elaborate that it can actually impact reality:
function(this);
..Which comes at the very end of the equation once all the parameters have been properly defined, and only when the variables are true (or false, or a specific, corresponding mix of both). If there is ambiguity in a variable, the equation simply won't operate - leading to utter inaction & inability.

The Harmonious Mind-Heart:

The application of the Ti algorithm is primarily executed by Fe. The executive part of the formula is Fe. (note: not Te). This means that all the energy and perfection invested into this Ti paradigm gets used almost exclusively toward collective ethical improvement, or not at all.

The end result is that Ti-lead types are among the most ethically obsessed and concerned individuals. Contrary to popular belief, Ti-leads actually have an extremely keen social awareness, and a desire to align with the social -- whether them toward it, or it toward them.

Now this presents a challenge because Ti and Fe have conflicting criteria of judgment, hence the nature of a Ti-lead. A Ti-lead is in constant war between their mind and heart, and like all types, this antagonistic relationship between their lead and polar functions is the central theme of their consciousness.

The more Ti is used in (non-isolated) reality the more pushback it receives from Fe. They are two sides of the same pendulum, so swinging one way strongly causes for the inverse to happen next. This is a natural result of efficient use of the dominant process. Hence a Ti lead cannot excel as a person without confronting their own primary duality, because the effective use of their lead process will inevitably awaken their polar process.

And because Fe is an intimate part of their own primary Ti axis, it is the latter part of their identity, despite the opposition, it is something they will feel a strong urge to reconcile with. In some TiNe and TiSe, this desire will be strong.

TiNe and TiSe will approach the reconciliation of this Ti|Fe polarity from the philosophical and axiomatic polar end of Ti, unlike Fe-leads. This means that the process of ethical understanding they form is more conceptual and becomes an intricate panorama of black and whites just as the rest of their paradigm.

As such for this shade of type, this endeavor can often result in even more comprehensive psychoanalysis than Fe lead types, though their practical ability with people will, on average, be less persuasive.

The Minimalist:

This shade of TiNe seeks to cause as few ripples in their environment as possible, as they survive solely to fuel their contemplative habits. Invisibility. Like most shades of introverted types, inaction is common, and for TiNe this inaction can be heavily naturally reinforced by their hierarchy.

So long as Ti is intentionally not being exposed to people, then it will receive no pushback to motivate it to contrive better calibrated etho-logical stances. For such TiNe, there will be no desire to interact with people. And they, unlike some warped shades of high-ethos types, will truly and sincerely have no sense of loss or missing-out because of this.

Furthermore, because of the abstract nature of Ne, they may also have no desire to directly interact with tactile reality -- or interact with it solely through Ne proxies (card/video games, puzzles) of familiar (Si) simulations. For such a TiNe, the main stimulation they crave will be this Ne play, and they will loathe to be separated from it. A single game cartridge can keep them stimulated for weeks. And daily necessities will be satiated to the minimum to allow for maximum enjoyment of this activity. In this, they become similar to some shades of NeTi and NiTe.

||There are other shades of TiNe, but I'll stop there for now. ||
 

own8ge

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@Words Thanks a lot! Your comment is more than appreciated.
@Auburn Oh wow, this is very helpful! Thanks
EDIT: I Admire both of you now, if that is Ok


Read the following, only if you really feel like it. It doesn't really make sense, nor is it funny, nor is it amusing or educative.
My mind is very abstract when it comes to functions because before I was introduced to MBTI I was analyzing myself 24/7 and building up my own theories from that. And I yet have not merged both theories (MBTI and My theories) because my lack of understanding for both. And so, because I don't understand my own theories fully yet (Because they were unfinished), I can't yet understand the relationship between the theories good enough and thus my thoughts about it are very abstract. (Am I even making sense?)
What I mean to say with this is that if I try to tell you what I think on how Ti draws conclusions or something as such, I might actually mean how something else draws conclusions.

And because of what I just explained, I'm not really sure of anything (Related to MBTI): Because I don't know where I got the knowledge from (Either my own theories, or MBTI or perhaps even a mix of both)

----
One thought was: that the main reason we humans have a consciousness, is to be able to make the best possible decisions within a short time of thinking. (Do this, to gather information about That. This is to be able to gather external information to be processed later to refine and better your judgment. Because later, you are out of the situation you were in, and can't gather information about it anymore. Processing all relevant information takes longer than your ability to do so, because time is to fast)

And this previous described consciousness, is just a processor of information.
And processing information is nothing more than Storing information. (Processing information is the act needed for storing information)
And one stores information by (Si) looking for similar information: Information that has the same Beginning or End. So the calculus would be something like: A -----> B (A results in B).
And the process would then be looking for the following…
1) If it has the same beginning and end. It will look if the logic that was attached to the previous actions with the same beginning and end, fit with this new sort of information. If it does: The formula (Logic that already existed to these kind of actions) will be improved if Ne discovers any possibilities of what also could have happened (Ne looks for factors that were active in this new kind of information, and thinks what kind of Role these factors could have had). If Ne can't improve the formula, this new information will be trashed.
2) If it has similar information (Same beginning or Same End): It will merge with the given formula (new information : A=1, B=3. Old information : A=1, B=5... Then it will be: 1=4+/-1)
3) If there is no similar information (Not the same beginning nor end). It will look if there is logic/formulas from other types of information that can be applied to this new sort of information, if it can: It will be put in the same category as that kind of information. If there is no logic that can be applied to this kind of information: it will make new logic for it (A = B)

(And yet again, what I just said: Might be somewhat inaccurate due to my abstract thinking.)
 

Auburn

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added a load to my previous post.

( @own8ge - you're welcome!)

@ forum - Note that MBTI does not equal jungian functions.
Strictly speaking, an INTP is not Ti-Ne-Si-Fe.
An INTP is "Introverted" "Intuitive" "Thinking" "Perceiving" according to the Myers-Briggs classification of those symptomatic dichotomies. What most modern typologists are doing is creating an amalgamation between two separate systems.

Typical of me, my own Ti would kindly suggest separating the two concepts for clarity's sake.

Through the past decades, typologists have evolved our cognitive understanding of the functions, so much so that the present, highest awareness of this phenomenon does not resembles the traditional or popular MBTI understanding in the least. Nonetheless those with a personally acquired a correct awareness of the reality of the dynamics of the processes, still refer to them through the traditional MBTI terminology out of custom. For example, the term "INTJ" already means (in the minds of adept typologist) something completely different from how the term is used by MBTI, but the term remains a lingering emblem used to refer to an understanding that until presently lacked its own embodiment.

I personally feels it is inefficient to first introduce people to a system already well understood to be flawed, only to then have them re-learn the proper system that sits behind it through prolonged exposure. It would be most efficient to learn the theory properly from the beginning, skipping the process of attaining and removing misconceptions of MBTI/Keirsey - including the four-letter code.

Types are not exclusively logical or ethical, nor abstract or concrete, nor is it reliable to measure type based on which one process of a pair theoretically ought to be more prevalent and noticeable. Types are defined by the two dualities existing within them, which can be distinctly identified without the four-letter-code, and the level of dexterity individuals may have with one or both dualities within them can be strong enough that it may seem to overwhelm the supposedly lower processes.

I'd rather not reinforce this more myself, so I will henceforth only be using Jungian terminology to refer to the cognitive types. Just in case anyone's wondering why I use funky names. >> Tho I see some of you also do this; yay.
 

Words

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I would say it's fair, but could be more refined.
Having no boundaries is actually not an attribute of judging functions. It is for perception functions. It is the judging functions that set the limits, draw the lines, pivot points on which things hinge.​


Your correction is truthful, but the way I understand "no boundaries" in Ji or in any Introverted Function is that it is not about J vs. P, It is about "subjective" and "objective" functions. Extroverted or Introverted functions. Judging functions do set limits, but the question is what is the basis for these limits? Rather Meta. "What limits the limits?" For the Ji-functions, the answer is "no boundaries." For Je-functions, the answer is "convention."


The Minimalist:

....Like most shades of introverted types, inaction is common, and for TiNe this inaction can be heavily naturally reinforced by their hierarchy....


The common adjective I hear related to this is "lazy." Another word related is "efficiency."

Slightly unrelated, but just a compliment. Your posts are always insightful. I especially like the one about Ne-Si and proxies and "running a simulation." You are probably the most "adept typologist" in this forum. But why do I get the strange feeling that you're NiFeTiSe? Illusions of grandeur-related...maybe.

Another problem with resorting to Jungian naming instead of MBTI is the length and the needed switching from uppercase to lowercase letters.​
 

Auburn

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@Words - thanks for the compliment. ^^; ...
A few answers to you..

Your correction is truthful, but the way I understand "no boundaries" in Ji or in any Introverted Function is that it is not about J vs. P, It is about "subjective" and "objective" functions.
The subjective functions draw a fissue or "divide" between self and non-self. That is about the only fundamental limit I see embedded in the subjective and objective dichotomy.

From there, there is no limit to what shapes the internal world can take, or the external world. But it is still more adequate to say limits are judging-based. Logic and ethics are all about rejecting contradicting perceptions and limiting options of behavior because they are irrational (yes, the term does apply to both). Judging functions are filters: quite adequately fitting the term "limits".

The common adjective I hear related to this is "lazy." Another word related is "efficiency."
Well I intentionally avoided using the word "lazy" and explained, cognitively, why that behavior arises, because:


  1. That's one of the stereotypes that is wrong.
  2. A word like lazy can fit many/any type.

Inaction is not the same as laziness. It would appear that introverted types are actually a lot more mentally active (from some preliminary brain scans) but physically more sedentary.

Practical example: J.K. Rowling could be considered lazy since she spent most of several years sitting sedentary, just writing. Writing books 2-7. But her mind was hardly inactive, and many would agree she was working quite hard.

The same is true for TiNe Minimalist. Their mental play can be intense and (as with TiNe Philosophers) may or may not produce results, but the brain activation and exertion is still nevertheless quite high.

But why do I get the strange feeling that you're NiFeTiSe? Illusions of grandeur-related...maybe.
I'm quite certain I am not, but I suppose you could say I'm a pseudo-mystic shade of TiNe... and have spent some time around NiFe, and adapted some of their principles. :3

Another problem with resorting to Jungian naming instead of MBTI is the length and the needed switching from uppercase to lowercase letters.
TiNe is as long as INTP.
Personally I think Ti(NeSi)Fe would be more accurate but unnecessary.
And you have to reach for the caps key anyhow, but just once more. Now that would be lazy; to not wanna press one extra key. =P​
 
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