hidden agendas

[TimeAsylums]

we've seen this link many times before and discussed it, but idr a thread.

you don't have to look too much into it, as many of the hidden agendas deal with the unconscious functions anyway, tert/inf.

I very much acknowledge my own (ENTP) to be loved, and it is extremely easy to see how other types might correlate. **Obviously I'm sure plenty of you will disagree with the "hidden agenda" so nbd really, just want to put it out there. inb4 socionics omg, some stuff is good lol.

http://www.socionics.com/articles/hiddena.htm

ENTp, ESTp => to be loved

(tert Fe)​

INTj, INFj => to be healthy

(inf Se)​

ESFj, ESTj => to be perfect

(tert Ne...? hmm)*​

ISFp, INFp => to understand

(inf Te)​

ENFj, ENTj => to be wealthy

(tert Se)​

ISTj, ISFj => to believe

(inf Ne)*​

ESFp, ENFp => to know

(tert Te)​

INTp, ISTp => to love

(inf Fe)​

For the ETPs I imagine it deals with the Fe tert, for the ITPs, for the inferior Fe. To be loved, and to love, respectively. the INJs are easy, we've seen how their inferior Se demands perfection/beauty/healthiness. the IFPs with their inferior Te's and to understand. etc etc and onwards. ENJs with the tert Se. etc etc.

My relationships:

Spoiler

Also, very easy to see why I mesh so well with ISPs, ISTP - to love, for me to be loved XD, for the ISFP, to understand is something that comes easily and naturally to me...haha, random just saying

just once more, I fully acknowledge, all I really want is to be wuv'd :'(

If you'll take note, the extraverts have to deal with the tert function, and the introverts with the inferior - and that all the hidden agenda functions are extraverted?

*Regarding the questionable inf/tert Ne, I can see "being perfect" as, seeing all the possibilities and addressing all of them, and "to believe" as even deeper (oddly I would have claimed Ni, but they don't have), obviously socionics method incorporates not only the first four functional stack but the entire 8 so that could play into it as well (just to take note).

**Regarding the NBD:

Spoiler

Spoiler

I think for me to be loved is higher than to love, although it's kind of hard to separate the two. Perhaps even more important than either though is to be understood.

Obviously you will have your dominant function desires, but it is not hidden, it is easy for you to identify with it. Clearly we all have the dominant desires, but the hidden is...more hidden.

(e.g., atm Kenshi's profile lists INTP, his quote^^ states more importantly is to be understood, clearly a Ti dom thing)

Further note: *DISCLAIMER* AS USUAL. I fully acknowledge the theoretical form of every single argument or statement made her yada yada yada bullshit etc, and endorse actual interaction/feelings over whatever is on paper, ok? so don't bitch out on me,

ANYWAY: I personally really enjoy this socinocis "relationship calculator" http://www.socionics.com/rel/rel.htm , as both of my duality/semi duality was ISFP, ISTP respectively. You can look/not look/not care into it as much as you like. Experience > theoretical etc.


See Bronto's corrections in post #3 on Socinoincs functions

 

[kenshi]

I think for me to be loved is higher than to love, although it's kind of hard to separate the two. Perhaps even more important than either though is to be understood.

 

[Reluctantly]

I kind of see it a little different, as Dominant function + Tertiary, based on people I know:

ENTp (Ne+Fe) => to play and have fun with other people
ESTp (Se+Fe) => to enjoy their experiences with other people

INTj (Ti+Si) => wants control in a way that's comfortable with them
INFj (Fi+Si) => wants to create harmony with the world in a way that's comfortable with them

I'm not going to do the rest, since it doesn't really matter much what I think, but using Tertiary only seems like oversimplifying when two different types are explained the same. I understand commonalities and what-not, but typology is about differentiation, so something like this would seem more theoretically useful in that regard.

 

[Brontosaurie]

you've mixed up the socionics j/p dichotomy with the MBTI one, i'm afraid. remember socionics goes by the dominant function, and MBTI by the primary extraverted function be it dominant or auxiliary.

INTj and INFj (INTP and INFP) share tert Si, not inf Se.

ISTj and ISFj (ISTP and ISFP) share tert Ni, not inf Ne.

ISFp and INFp (ISFJ and INFJ) share tert Ti, not inf Te.

Si is health ('security' is a more succinct description imo, especially when compared to Se as wealth (although health and wealth rhyme which is superficially satisfactory hehehehe)), Ni is belief, Ti is understanding, Fi is loving.

i think all of these "hidden agendas" refer to the tert function. extraverts and introverts alike.

 

[TimeAsylums]

you've mixed up the socionics j/p dichotomy with the MBTI one, i'm afraid. remember socionics goes by the dominant function, and MBTI by the primary extraverted function be it dominant or auxiliary.

INTj and INFj (INTP and INFP) share tert Si, not inf Se.

ISTj and ISFj (ISTP and ISFP) share tert Ni, not inf Ne.

ISFp and INFp (ISFJ and INFJ) share tert Ti, not inf Te.

Si is health ('security' is a more succinct description imo, especially when compared to Se as wealth (although health and wealth rhyme which is superficially satisfactory hehehehe)), Ni is belief, Ti is understanding, Fi is loving.

i think all of these "hidden agendas" refer to the tert function. extraverts and introverts alike.

Thank you for the correction, I wasn't as in-depth aware of socionics as you are,

regardless, the tert/functions still make sense to me.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Thank you for the correction, I wasn't as in-depth aware of socionics as you are,

"know your enemy" and all that jizz

it's an interesting angle for sure. Cherry Cola made a good thread about the tertiary function's role, also. maybe fun to relate to this.

 

[TimeAsylums]

"know your enemy" and all that jizz

it's an interesting angle for sure. Cherry Cola made a good thread about the tertiary function's role, also. maybe fun to relate to this.

I was going to bring that up, I was wondering if CC and myself had the same idea. I read over it. Coincidence?!? NOT IN THE N WORLD!!!

 

[Reluctantly]

you've mixed up the socionics j/p dichotomy with the MBTI one, i'm afraid. remember socionics goes by the dominant function, and MBTI by the primary extraverted function be it dominant or auxiliary.

INTj and INFj (INTP and INFP) share tert Si, not inf Se.

ISTj and ISFj (ISTP and ISFP) share tert Ni, not inf Ne.

ISFp and INFp (ISFJ and INFJ) share tert Ti, not inf Te.

J/P is a tiring dichotomy. People argue Ti+Ne is P, while others argue is J.

The first one says the Ne makes them P.
The second one says the Ti makes them J.

Then Ti+Ne makes them both P and J.
So is Ti+Ne P or J?

The first one says the world gets their Ne firsthand, but not their Ti, so they must be P.
Someone experiences the effects of their Ti; it stings, categorizes and generalizes, stirs conflict and divides unions away, so someone says they must be J.

Both are right. Are you J or P? Two sides of the same coin.
A silly game...

 

[DIALECTIC]

Both are right. Are you J or P? Two sides of the same coin.
A silly game...

In my own experience:

When P is conscious (eg: INTP) i.e: when life runs smoothly, J is unconscious and therefore J will be activated in time of stress.

When J is conscious (eg: INTJ) i.e: when life runs smoothly, P is unconscious and therefore P will be activated in time of stress.

 

[DIALECTIC]

i think all of these "hidden agendas" refer to the tert function. extraverts and introverts alike.

I do think you are spot-on here, as "being healthy" has definitely been my very Unconscious' "hidden agenda"... It (Si) was activated in my early 30's and it was always there to force me back on track thru somatizations...

Can others relate ?

 

[DIALECTIC]

I think for me to be loved is higher than to love, although it's kind of hard to separate the two. Perhaps even more important than either though is to be understood.

Are you sure it is to be loved and not to be recognized / appreciated you mean ?

If i had to choose between "to be loved" (input) and "to love" (output) id definitely go with "to love"... I wouldn't call it a "hidden agenda" but rather a conscious agenda as in consciously seeking to love thru the rational understanding of it, if that makes any sense ha...

 

[kenshi]

Are you sure it is to be loved and not to be recognized / appreciated you mean ?

That's pretty important too. It's why I was so stressed at my last job. I'm actually not sure which I would choose between the two, but to be recognized is at least a little less cliché and universal.

 

[fnordprefect]

I've never met two Socionics "expets" who interpret the theory (which has pretty fuzzy from the getgo) in a similar fashion, much less agree on how to type people. So then, how has a complex inter-type relations theory with all these deterministic rules and criteria make any sense if the whole base theory is all subjective mush?