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hi

Russ

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Hi, I’m Russ.
I’m 31
Live in Wisconsin
I am married to an enfj and have 3 kids, 4 and 1.5x2
I learned about temperament quite a while ago in a psychology class. (started reading about it that day and never returned to the class...)
My only pet is an Egyptian uromastyx. Lizard

I was surfing around for intp problems/solutions and found your forum. You seem like a good (and callus) bunch. My friends are mostly intjs and I have never come into close contact with another intp.

Questions: What drives your interest in mbti? What don’t you like about it?
 
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http://www.intpexperience.com/

what drives my interest in MBTI? I started on the path of self awareness a few years ago. My INTPness is a baseline from where I can begin to understand my own inner workings and how I interface with the external world I find myself marooned in.

I'm recently divorced YAY! and using the MBTI to filter in/ out potential life partners. I was married to a disastrous drama queen of the ESFJ persuasion prior to knowing the basics of my inner workings YIKES! 3 kids who are doing fine in the midst of the tumult. I'd like to find nothing less than my soulmate moving forward and settle down...perhaps have one more child to demonstrate, as Plato said, my joy in expressing my completeness to the world in gifting life to another being via reproduction with my ideal mate.

I have one INTJ friend who I recently introduced to his MBTI. We've been discussing it in depth for several months now. There is a lot of resonance between the INTJ and INTP I've found to my pleasant surprise!!

What don't I like about it? Nothing. Some people, I find, expect too much out of it and end up disaapointed. or they don't understand it enough to appreciate the amazing breadth of its practical implications.
 

onesteptwostep

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Hello welcome. The intps here are typically single (I'm betting 95% are) so the answers (and questions) you may have interest in may not be available.

As for your question I think it's just our inner-selves wanting to know why we don't fit in the world, something along those lines. My interest however is more in the descriptors for each type and each type relates and interacts with other types in general. It's sort of like reading up on someone's life, a form of soap opera entertainment.

I don't really have a dislike for the MBTI, I think it's fine where it is. It's more the people who take it too lightly or too serious that stirs up the discontent.
 

EditorOne

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"The intps here are typically single (I'm betting 95% are) so the answers (and questions) you may have interest in may not be available."

Oh, good, I'm in the 5 percent again. My wife is an INFP.

Interest in MBTI: I accidentally stumbled on it when I was older than you as part of a testing thing for up and coming middle managers. It initially "normalized" my existence, ie., "Oh, I'm not broken, I'm supposed to be like this." Subsequently it gave me a blueprint for what I'd be good at (personally, not vocationally) and where my blind spots would be (knowing where they'll be doesn't mean you avoid them, however).

This forum is a good place to be yourself. Folks arent' so much callous as they are, typically for INTPs, frequently unaware they're being blunter than social norms usually permit. And, being INTPS, if someone is deliberately being a gadfly, the reaction is either "Meh" or an extremely long and tedious series of posts to explain oneself, just because.

Welcome aboard. Find your life preserver, find your lifeboat station, enjoy the voyage, we only hit icebergs once in awhile.
 

Inquisitor

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"The intps here are typically single (I'm betting 95% are) so the answers (and questions) you may have interest in may not be available."

Oh, good, I'm in the 5 percent again. My wife is an INFP.

Interest in MBTI: I accidentally stumbled on it when I was older than you as part of a testing thing for up and coming middle managers. It initially "normalized" my existence, ie., "Oh, I'm not broken, I'm supposed to be like this." Subsequently it gave me a blueprint for what I'd be good at (personally, not vocationally) and where my blind spots would be (knowing where they'll be doesn't mean you avoid them, however).

This forum is a good place to be yourself. Folks arent' so much callous as they are, typically for INTPs, frequently unaware they're being blunter than social norms usually permit. And, being INTPS, if someone is deliberately being a gadfly, the reaction is either "Meh" or an extremely long and tedious series of posts to explain oneself, just because.

Welcome aboard. Find your life preserver, find your lifeboat station, enjoy the voyage, we only hit icebergs once in awhile.

Your wife is an INFP? I presume you are happily married but I grew up with an ISFP mother...It was very, very difficult.

Fi types really have such a different orientation to the world than Ti types. Example: every time I didn't exhibit enough "empathy" or "compassion" for the plight of others, I got taken to task for it and called "callous" and "harsh." :storks: Absolutely maddening.

I guess it's possible for an INTP and INFP to bond on the "N" dimension somewhat more though. They do both have Ne in the auxiliary, so I can see how at least there, they would have a shared interest in the big picture as opposed to the little details. From personal experience, I do believe the ISFP is the absolute worst type for an INTP. They share zero of the function axes: Ti/Fe vs. Fi/Te and Ne/Si vs. Se/Ni.
 

Inquisitor

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Hi, I’m Russ.
I’m 31
Live in Wisconsin
I am married to an enfj and have 3 kids, 4 and 1.5x2
I learned about temperament quite a while ago in a psychology class. (started reading about it that day and never returned to the class...)
My only pet is an Egyptian uromastyx. Lizard

I was surfing around for intp problems/solutions and found your forum. You seem like a good (and callus) bunch. My friends are mostly intjs and I have never come into close contact with another intp.

Questions: What drives your interest in mbti? What don’t you like about it?

People around here know that I basically worship Jung and constantly take me to task for it. I like MBTI. What I don't like is that it doesn't stick perfectly to Jung's ideas, and the data hounds sometimes place it above the original theory in terms of validity. That said, it's close enough to provide valuable insights and I frequently make use of the online Myers-Briggs Library. A highly underutilized resource in my opinion. How's your marriage to an enfj? How well do you get along?
 

Russ

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I like mbti as a means of smoothing over interactions between myself and people of other types.
I too dated an esfj and after 4 years i finally quit trying. I don’t hate her but we definitely are not mates. Knowing our types put a lot of things in their place. I referenced it again when i was getting to know my wife. Knowing her underlying motivations makes it possible for me to make her feel appreciated. I stopped arguing with my youngest brother enfp over things and focused more on encouraging him and getting him amped. It added a lot of "hats" to my collection for getting along with people.
Thats why I like it.

What i dont like is how disorganised it is publicly. Different groups have different opinions and it comes off as cultism. It is presented in a way that i believe only appeals to a very specific group.

i particularly enjoyed reading some discussions on sex drugs and religion. These topics are almost never brought up openly and are usually followed up with a fart joke. My matter-of-fact attitude often gets shunned in some way when the sensitive topics come up. I don’t even make eye contact with ritual religious people for fear of offending them in some way. It was refreshing to read good natured comments about it.

The specific intp problem that is on my mind this time is dancing. My wife loves to dance, i have no opinion on it. I would like to learn, but when i talk to people about it they describe it as moving to inner rhythms and expressing happiness and freedom from within... Thats when I say "ahh, sorcery! no. sorry, Im not magical."

Dr. H, my relationships with my intjs are competitive mostly. It seems to be mutually appreciated. Is your relationship with yours similar?
In relation to the mbti mine have been resistant in the "yeah, maybe" kind of way.
 

Inquisitor

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I'd also submit INTP and ISTJ as a contender for worst possible cesspool for cultivation of a positive relationship, mother/ romantic partner or otherwise...

Other INTPs, really? I guess I wouldn't want one as a romantic partner, but as a friend, sure. We'll think in pretty much identical ways. I learn a lot from older INTPs and the younger ones seem to value my insights. There tends to be a mutual recognition of self in one another even if they haven't been introduced to MBTI. There's something nonverbal that gets communicated somehow...

About ISTJs, I grew up with one (father), and I would put them right up there with ISFPs, but maybe not quite as bad. At least ISTJs have T in common, so there's some element of shared rationality (not to say F types are irrational, just not in the same way). I basically had the worst of both worlds typologically-speaking growing up. They're lovely people, but we just have so many fights and disagreements it's more painful than not unfortunately.
 
Local time
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Joined
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Messages
949
---
Location
Upstairs
I like mbti as a means of smoothing over interactions between myself and people of other types.
I too dated an esfj and after 4 years i finally quit trying. I don’t hate her but we definitely are not mates. Knowing our types put a lot of things in their place. I referenced it again when i was getting to know my wife. Knowing her underlying motivations makes it possible for me to make her feel appreciated. I stopped arguing with my youngest brother enfp over things and focused more on encouraging him and getting him amped. It added a lot of "hats" to my collection for getting along with people.
Thats why I like it.

What i dont like is how disorganised it is publicly. Different groups have different opinions and it comes off as cultism. It is presented in a way that i believe only appeals to a very specific group.

i particularly enjoyed reading some discussions on sex drugs and religion. These topics are almost never brought up openly and are usually followed up with a fart joke. My matter-of-fact attitude often gets shunned in some way when the sensitive topics come up. I don’t even make eye contact with ritual religious people for fear of offending them in some way. It was refreshing to read good natured comments about it.

The specific intp problem that is on my mind this time is dancing. My wife loves to dance, i have no opinion on it. I would like to learn, but when i talk to people about it they describe it as moving to inner rhythms and expressing happiness and freedom from within... Thats when I say "ahh, sorcery! no. sorry, Im not magical."

Dr. H, my relationships with my intjs are competitive mostly. It seems to be mutually appreciated. Is your relationship with yours similar?
In relation to the mbti mine have been resistant in the "yeah, maybe" kind of way.

I hate dancing. I have so many memories of being completely and wholly without exception out of place at dances when I was a teenager. Interestingly I just connected with my girlfriend from high school on facebook for the first time in many many years. It brought back the terrifying memory of walking into the dancehall at prom and feeling so damn out of place. :kodama1: Definitely not an INTP thing generally no doubt. I find it disconcerting that my elders (e.g. parents) expected someone with my personality to conform to such displays what are so alien from my inherent nature. If I'd known myself better...knowing INTPs are so darned rare, though explains why the social milieu in which we are marooned includes such bizarre, superstitious, ESF fueled practices like dancing. And public displays of religious affection

I can think of 2 close relationships I have with INTJs. Both male. I'd say there is a lot of underlying intellectual competition when we engage in what are typically in depth detailed existential conversations. Its not so much explicit competition but implicit. Enjoyable for both the INTJ and INTP. Bordering on transcendental. Both of these INTJs have accepted the INTJ categorization with a fervent belief in its validity.

The most prominent thing I've noticed over the last several months, between myself as an INTP and them as INTJs is the profound implications on display when we interact as far as their extroverted thinking is as compared to my introverted thinking. Profound and far reaching implications. I'm learning a lot from them as far as how to apply extroverted thinking to strategizing in the real world. Ongoing problem though, of course, is am I really being true to my inner INTP nature and not leading myself down dead ends so to speak when I interact with the world as a strategic extroverted thinking INTJ? I don't want to end up someplace my INTP self doesn't want to ultimately be...
 

Russ

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How's your marriage to an enfj? How well do you get along?

Well, i like it.:p

We kind of pick up the parts of life the other doesn’t really like. She drags me (kicking and screaming) out of my dark corner and makes me do stuff. I break judging based cycles she seems to get stuck in. I think she likes (sometimes) how uncaring i am of "normal" stuff.

I think the difficult part to manage is the I vs E. At the times when I go cold she has interoperated it as a dislike of my life or her. I try to explain that its just a me thing but I don’t think she has the means to understand it. I don’t like traditional roles at all and being judging and Hispanic she has an expectation that i think shes just used to. I want her to pursue her interests and give only the necessary minimum thought to my opinion.

Overall more pros than cons.
I would recommend it.
 

Inquisitor

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Well, i like it.:p

We kind of pick up the parts of life the other doesn’t really like. She drags me (kicking and screaming) out of my dark corner and makes me do stuff. I break judging based cycles she seems to get stuck in. I think she likes (sometimes) how uncaring i am of "normal" stuff.

I think the difficult part to manage is the I vs E. At the times when I go cold she has interoperated it as a dislike of my life or her. I try to explain that its just a me thing but I don’t think she has the means to understand it. I don’t like traditional roles at all and being judging and Hispanic she has an expectation that i think shes just used to. I want her to pursue her interests and give only the necessary minimum thought to my opinion.

Overall more pros than cons.
I would recommend it.

Yeah, that's basically along the lines of what I would expect based on the theory.

Here is what AJ Drenth has to say on the matter:

INTPs and ENFJs are similar in that both utilize a dominant Judging
function. This contributes to a shared tendency to be intentional,
proactive, and goal-oriented. These types also share the Ti-Fe function
pair, which, combined with their shared preference for Intuition, may
contribute a similarity of interests and worldview.
These types also differ in some important ways. Perhaps most important
is the fact their Ti and Fe functions fall at opposite ends of the functional
stack. While this may engender a fierce initial attraction a la the
“opposites attract” principle, once the infatuation has waned, it may
contribute to a number of difficulties.
ENFJs have strong personalities. Their Fe assertions can be direct, intense,
and emotionally-charged. Such judgments, especially when unsolicited,
are not always well received by others, especially by independent-minded
INTPs.
ENFJs are also prone to function like teachers and counselors in their
relationships. They love sharing their insights in order to help their
partners grow and self-actualize. They enjoy having problems to solve and
people to help. Consequently, their romantic relationships commonly
take on a teacher-pupil (or parent-child) sort of pattern. In fact, any
relationship comprised of a J-type and P-type would seem to carry this
potential.
At least for a while, INTPs may like the fact that ENFJs can help them learn
about relationships in general and themselves in particular. As long as the
relationship serves as a platform for learning, INTPs are likely to stay
interested, while tolerating or overlooking what they might otherwise
view as less favorable features of the ENFJ. Not surprisingly, these less
favorable features often pertain to the ENFJ’s Fe.
Although INTPs may love the ENFJ’s Fe when it helps them learn about
themselves, they may start to feel differently if they feel the ENFJ no
longer has anything new or valuable to say. Indeed, once the initial
novelty has worn off, INTPs may grow cold or resentful toward the ENFJ’s
hair-trigger Fe. As we’ve seen, INTPs instinctively eschew or resist those
they perceive as trying to control or manage them. So while they may
enjoy, or at least tolerate, being the ENFJ’s pupil for a while, if the ENFJ
continues trying to teach or criticize them when they are no longer
interested, they will eventually rebel and things will get ugly.INTPs may also struggle with ENFJs’ loquaciousness and tendency toward
emotionality and melodrama. Since ENFJs “feel aloud,” INTPs may find
themselves looking for a quiet place where they can be alone with their
own thoughts. They may feel they can never relax and fall into Ti mode
when their ENFJ partner is around. Accordingly, the ENFJ may complain
about the INTP being too detached, aloof, or emotionally checked-out.
Lifestyle can be another point of contention between these two types.
ENFJs often have refined tastes with regard to their material
surroundings, their physical appearance, as well as their palate. Like INFJs,
they commonly display a taste for the finer things in life—fine arts, food,
music, culture, etc. They may at times be perceived as snobbish or uppity
(think of the sitcom character, Frasier Crane, for example), taking
themselves or their sophisticated tastes a bit too seriously. As we’ve seen,
INTPs are exactly the opposite in this respect, gravitating toward a
lifestyle of earthiness and minimalism.
In light of the above, it seems fairly unlikely that INTPs would enjoy longterm
compatibility with ENFJs, at least not without great struggle. To be
successful, both partners would need to be far along in their personal
growth and development, in which case an ENFJ might serve as a suitable
mindmate and O & H partner for the INTP.

Does that ring true for you? Keep in mind that Drenth recommends all N types above sensors for INTPs, so even though he comes to a negative conclusion at the end there, he still thinks ENFJs aren't such a bad choice.
 

Alias

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Cool, someone else who thinks well of the INTP-ENFJ coupling. Welcome to the forum! I hope you enjoy your stay. I think the ENFJ couple is just as good as if not better than INFJ. From my experience, I'd much prefer an ENFJ over searching all over for the elusive INFJ. I like MBTI just because it helps me know who I'm dealing with, and it's an interesting topic. I try not to delve into functions, because it urns it into research, and it can drive MBTI communities apart. Are you willing to mention your career?
 

EditorOne

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"Your wife is an INFP?" - Russ

Yup. Successfully married since 1989.
 

Russ

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I am a welder. I work in manufacturing right now fir the steady paycheck but its slowly killing me. I prefer repair. You get to mix the act of welding (something I like) with troubleshooting and problem solving.

I have not gotten to know an infp other than my sister but based on the profile intp infp sounds like a really slow paced relationship. I like E people for the excitement. They get all amped upbby being out doing things with people. I don't push for that myself but at times I cab kind of leach off of them.

What exactly is the part of the infp that you guys are after?
 

Sir Eus Lee

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It initially "normalized" my existence, ie., "Oh, I'm not broken, I'm supposed to be like this."

This was my experience too. I read some type descriptions and, I was reading myself. Once I discovered cognitive functions, I was hooked. They perfectly explained me. Also, the entire thing helped me understand why i seemed messed up. My parents thought i was autistic or something, and actually took steps to investigate. I think it wad something i desperately needed, but i didnt kmow that i needed, and it filled a void.I don't know why I'm still interested- well I do but not why it still has my interest- cognitive functions explain everything, imo. They seem to me to be directly applicable to myself and my interactions, provide a sturdy handle on all themes and motives in human behaviour, and are definite enough to be (I believe) true but vague/undefined/unexplored/ still not understood enough that I can still continue to ponder through, discover more about, and frequently have new insights into how functions interact and work within a person and with each other. Maybe it's that it gives me an avenue to understand others and to explain myself. It also is a bridge for the INTPs intellectual capabilities to relationship capabilities, which is so ideal.

ISFP is the absolute worst type for an INTP. They share zero of the function axes: Ti/Fe vs. Fi/Te and Ne/Si vs. Se/Ni.

They're not necessarily the absolute worst. Perhaps the least likely to immediately mesh with an Intp, but the functional different with the same IXXP stack can be enlightening and/or stretching. I know an ISFP and I admit we don't mesh but she has an interesting perspective and take on things. Although I do admit they kind of seem one sided, in a way. That being said, my situation isnt all situations, so perhaps you are correct. I would be interested in hearing your cases, ut maybe not in this thread. I think the ESFP would be the worst type, but I'm not going to say for certain.


Oh, and to Russ: Whether or not you feel it, we value your perspective! Welcome.
 

onesteptwostep

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I dunno, I've tried to get friendly with an apparent ISFP female but things didn't go well. I'm not even sure if it's about perspectives, I think our values on experience differ, like pretty much on tangents.

Further on, (did a bit of research) socionics says it's a super-ego relation

These are relations of mutual respect between partners. Super-Ego partners may think of each other as a distant and slightly mysterious ideal. They often show interest in each other's manners, behaviour and thought composition. Both partners experience a warm feeling towards each other, but for the outsider, these relations may look cold.

If Super-Ego partners cannot find common interests, their interaction can become very formal. Partners normally think more about expressing their own point of view than listening to their partner. This expression comes from the confident side of one of the partners reaching the unconfident side of the other partner. The latter tries to defend themselves by projecting their confident points in return. Partners normally show interest and respect to each other if they do not know each other well enough. When partners start more close interaction, they start experiencing many problems.

Super-Ego partners may think that they understand each other well. However, when it comes to day to day matters or co-operative activity , partners start thinking that their partner is deliberately trying to do everything wrong. Super-Ego partners are not interested and do not make each other aware of their intentions. Therefore their actions may look exactly opposite to what was expected. Although the hope and the feeling between partners may remain as before, it does not prevent the conflicts penetrating their relationship.

When both partners are extroverts , one of them usually feels more unsatisfied with their position. The explanation for this is that they believe that the other partner does not pay as much attention to them as they should and are too occupied with their own matters. Between two introvert partners, one is always thinks about the other as being too obtrusive and clingy. In any case, friction usually begins when partners shift to a more close relationship.
Taking that with a grain of salt, but it does/did sort of fit my situation a bit.
 
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