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AphroditeGoneAwry

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Hi Everyone,

I am trying a new forum. One where my cyber-stalkers might not be so prevalent. :)

I have been on forums for a long time! And I thought I was an INFJ until I took the official mbti test last year, and had the exit interview regarding the results, which revealed I am really an INTP.

I am an INTP that uses Fe pretty well when I want to. I am a divorced mom of 5 kids :cat: and a dog. I recently moved in to town from the country. I am a born-again Christian and I love to discuss the Bible and theology, and God. I am an avid knitter and am a professional in women's health, but am not too busy with work right now. :)


Thanks for reading. I hope this forum is a good fit for me! :angel:
 

TheScornedReflex

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Welcome you heathen.

Now, about your joining fee..
 

Lot

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Howdie

Welcome to our little space. If your stalkers don't find you here, we can provide you with one on request.The bathroom is out of paper, and the bar is free.

 

Pyropyro

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Hi OP. You have a dog which makes you automatically cool in my perspective.
 

Sinny91

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Hey, and welcome.

Great stuff, I wanted someone to discuss the Bible with.
I look forward to hearing more from you.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Hi OP. You have a dog which makes you automatically cool in my perspective.

Thank you! He is a mix of Shiba Inu, and a WONDERFUL dog, especially with kids. He isn't fixed so if anyone wants to breed their bitch with him, lemme know.

Hey, and welcome.

Great stuff, I wanted someone to discuss the Bible with.
I look forward to hearing more from you.

Awesome! I love it. Usually my Bible perspectives get me into trouble....:)
 

Sinny91

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green acid

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Hello, I'm a Christian too. And an INTP and all that.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Why's that then?

Oh. Because I will preface most everything I argue with a Bible basis. And even though I am honest and up front about that being my premise, and I am basically just interpreting the scriptures regarding certain subjects, most people, especially those with a hard bias or personal interest, cannot handle my opinion which might be completely opposite to what they believe.

Even though condemnation nor judgment will enter in from me at all, others will insert it and say that I am being cruel, judgmental, and all host of other falsities. So it's like I cannot even argue or discuss points of contention with most people. Now I see that it is an INTP trait to be able to discuss literally ANYTHING without bias, just to glean all sides of an issue, and not necessarily even take sides, but hold ourselves back from judgment. But some--or most--people are so trigger happy that just the mention of some topics puts them into defensive attack mode. One of these is homosexuality, and others are politics (which I don't care to argue, being more of a social scientist myself).

Hello, I'm a Christian too. And an INTP and all that.

Yeah! Praise God. Nice to meet you!

How do you like being an intp? How do you like knowing you are an INTP? How does being an INTP make you different in the world?
 

Sinny91

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Oh I can relate to all of that, it's the same way my 'conspiracy theories' are met by the masses.

Do you interpret the Bible literally or..?
What denomination are you, or secular?
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Oh I can relate to all of that, it's the same way my 'conspiracy theories' are met by the masses.

Do you interpret the Bible literally or..?
What denomination are you, or secular?


I believe every word of the entire canonical Bible is breathed by the Holy Spirit into man, who wrote it.

For me there is a spectrum whereby literal is on one end and symbolic on the other, and the Bible falls between these two realms. It is an art and a science to be able to translate and interpret the Bible properly on this spectrum. And doing this is a work that can comprise one's lifetime.


I am Christian. And I do not believe in sectarianism.
 

Sinny91

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Do you not accept Biblical apocrypha and Deuterocanonical books?

Do you submit to the authority of the RCC?

I'm just about to embark on a 5 hour coach ride through the country with just a bible and an Ipod to keep me company. This should be fun.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Do you not accept Biblical apocrypha and Deuterocanonical books?

Do you submit to the authority of the RCC?

I'm just about to embark on a 5 hour coach ride through the country with just a bible and an Ipod to keep me company. This should be fun.


I haven't really had to because the 66 canonical books are keeping me busy enough. :P Though I do look to apocryphal books for information when I am trying to track something down.

I like the Catholic church in many ways, like confession, penance, sacraments, and their astute study of the Word. Other things not so much.

Nice. I am following a Bible reading through in a year program, and I am a bit behind on Genesis right now, so sometimes I play it aloud on my Bible app on my phone, but the man's voice never fails to put me to sleep. :confused: Do other people have that problem too?
 

bvanevery

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Welcome! God spelled backwards is doG and I've got one of those too. One interesting thing I've learned from my brief time in this forum, is INTP isn't a signifier of anyone's political or religious views at all. Only the manner in which they tend to amass and marshal debating information.
 

Sinny91

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So from my POV I do have an in built fear of God... having been raised by Roman Catholics ...

However, in growing up, I've allowed myself to explore all branches of Theology..

I noticed that the RCC actually go against a lot of what Jesus Christ preached.

The aspects which you say you say you appreciate for example.. Penance and sacraments.. Hail Mary Mother of God... What happened to 'thout shall have no other idols'??



Although I agree that RCC world studies are very illuminating... As are no doubt all the historical texts they keep hidden from the rest of the world.

I also have a hard time believing that the God of the OT am the NT are the same God.
 

Sinny91

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I can't edit my posts properly on this device.

erm, let's see ...my biggest gripe with god is that he apparently created the heavens and the Earth... You know what else he created? Light and dark, and good and evil.

This dude totally created everything, including all the suffering in the world... I just don't think I can be thankful for that.
In fact... It causes me to feel a hell lot of resentment.

When there was only one set of footprints.. Thats when God carried you.
Really now. Maybe if he didn't create this bullshit in the first place he wouldn't need to carry me.

I'm just rambling now.. I do have questions for you, I just need a coffee first.
 

Pyropyro

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erm, let's see ...my biggest gripe with god is that he apparently created the heavens and the Earth... You know what else he created? Light and dark, and good and evil.

This dude totally created everything, including all the suffering in the world... I just don't think I can be thankful for that.
In fact... It causes me to feel a hell lot of resentment.

When there was only one set of footprints.. Thats when God carried you.
Really now. Maybe if he didn't create this bullshit in the first place he wouldn't need to carry me.

Note: This is just one of the answers we discussed at the seminary I'm attending. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just what I've learned so far. I'm also assuming we're talking about theology and not the worn-out "there is/is no god" argument.

Let's just go with the knowledge of good and evil. The context there was obedience. There was just one, very simple and very clear test (Gen. 2:16) AND STILL ADAM f*cked up.

If God does have a "sin", it is that He trusts us way too much. Each time the Biblical humankind sinned He never obliterates them completely, there's always a "remnant" which can start anew and do right next time. He even started it at Gen. 3.

If I were in His place I'll just delete humankind, reboot the Earth and get it over with.

Now let's go to suffering and how that mini-exegetical exercise affects you and me. Guess who has the job and the free will to fix that suffering up? The blessing on Genesis 1:28 wasn't revoked. The job associated with said blessing became harder though (Gen. 3:17-19).
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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So from my POV I do have an in built fear of God... having been raised by Roman Catholics ...

However, in growing up, I've allowed myself to explore all branches of Theology..

I noticed that the RCC actually go against a lot of what Jesus Christ preached.

The aspects which you say you say you appreciate for example.. Penance and sacraments.. Hail Mary Mother of God... What happened to 'thout shall have no other idols'??



Although I agree that RCC world studies are very illuminating... As are no doubt all the historical texts they keep hidden from the rest of the world.

I also have a hard time believing that the God of the OT am the NT are the same God.

That is awesome you have been given wisdom in your youth: the fear of the Lord. I raised most of my children without that and now I pray daily they come to know and love God (and fear Him).

All religions take things and twist them up and end up making false teachers in the form of their priests and pastors. It is inevitable because we have one temple (our body) and one Lord, Christ. All attempts to simulate that will fail miserably, as illustrated by people having a hard time finding the 'right' church or 'right' religious fit, or whatever, though we are commanded to commune together anyway, and TRY.

That is why I just tell people I am a Christian. I would say that I am 'non-denominational' but even that now has taken on a connotation of more than the original word meant. :confused: So now I describe my practice of my faith in the negative, defensively, going back to the Bible, and say that I do not believe in sectarianism. Because basically I believe all religions are the enemy's way to break down faith in God, if you really get to the heart of the matter.

I have tried to create my own church, at least theoretically. I call it Love Church. I have written out my belief statements and doctrinal beliefs of my church. But what I found interesting along the way (in looking back just now) is that as a human I cannot help but start to want to be more powerful in that context than I really am; that I want to think my doctrine is more special than other church doctrines, that my faith is stronger, yada yada yada. My point being that church is made of people who present themselves as easy targets for the devil. And the devil does use church to hurt people, from the very top to the bottom.

Some people address this knowledge by simply quitting church. But it is clear that Jesus (by His example of going into synagogues regularly, even when they wanted to kill Him!), and the Apostle Paul and the other early church fathers, felt it was God's will we congregate and worship the Lord. Indeed in the days of creation it is written in the Hebrew (and lost in translation) that the stars are for knowing the seasons and times of year so that God's chosen people could congregate for feasts and worship to Him! The very stars are made for that purpose! So to avoid doing this out of our intellectual gymnastics and self-righteous indignation over past hurts and injustices from the church we may have suffered just means we have unforgiveness in our hearts, see.

I am not intending to preach at you! I am just on a heated thought fervor! :D


When I say I like the concepts of penance and confession and such, it just means the concept, not necessarily how they put it into play in every way. I think it's a grave mistake that modern churches have omitted confession to priests, believing that you just have to confess once to Jesus and all is forgiven and forgotten, which is true from God's perspective, but not true from ours because God is God and we are deeply messed up. There might be layers upon layers of hurt and guilt and shame built up that one has to dig through and ask forgiveness for as more comes to light. The Catholic Church understood this, because we understood this as an ancient race. As we live apart from Christ, we sin on a regular basis, and that is why confession was a regular thing in the old RCC, which has by and far been lost in the modern RCC as well. We all have forgotten this knowledge.

Confession is basically just spiritual therapy, or Christian counseling, if you will. It is ignorant and lazy for modern churches and denominations to think that with a thought prayer one could be cured of the sins of their old life.

And penance goes along with this. It is a physical reinforcement that we messed up before and is a sacrificial sign that we are sorry to God. Yes, God loves mercy over sacrifice, but sometimes humans need to work it out and work through it to get to the mercy in their own heart, to make our heart contrite.

And praying to Mary is something I do not do, though I wear what looks like a huge rosary around my neck daily. I have no need to pray to Mary because I pray to my Lord.

I can't edit my posts properly on this device.

erm, let's see ...my biggest gripe with god is that he apparently created the heavens and the Earth... You know what else he created? Light and dark, and good and evil.

This dude totally created everything, including all the suffering in the world... I just don't think I can be thankful for that.
In fact... It causes me to feel a hell lot of resentment.

When there was only one set of footprints.. Thats when God carried you.
Really now. Maybe if he didn't create this bullshit in the first place he wouldn't need to carry me.

I'm just rambling now.. I do have questions for you, I just need a coffee first.

I understand. And there are many more highly educated and trained theologians than me, but what I do know is that while God created the darkness, He also insulated us from it--at the Beginning. It was temptation (the serpent) that bred desire (thought in Eve's mind that she could be smart like God AND enjoy the forbidden fruit) coming together that affected all mankind thereafter.

We see this in ourselves today. We need not blame God for all the sin in the world. He states clearly in His commandments He wants us to love each other. Yet we hurt each other, as we hurt. It is ironic that to prove ourselves worthy of God means to say we are not worthy. That we need help. That we are beyond our own repair. He just wants our love and to be in relationship to Him. We have a hard time with this submission because we have believed in satan's lie that we can have equality in all things! What a worldly notion! There is no Biblical notion of equality with God. God is ruler supreme, but because we didn't personally vote Him into office, or get to dictate His agenda, many have a problem with Him.

I know as a parent, my relationship with my children cannot be on their terms. :) Otherwise there would be no bedtimes and game would be played 24/7. Junk food would be the primary staple. My kids have to submit to my authority for knowing what is best for them. And they should love me in that, and be thankful. That is the same way it is with the Father. But we are rebellious children who want what we want when we want it. Then we whine when He takes the keys to the car away from us.

God doesn't want us to do things the hard way. That is a worldly statement and a worldly notion. He gave us a HUGE guidebook that tells us how to live in bliss and peace, with abundance. We have only ourselves to blame if we choose not to.

And the OT and NT WAS very different. That is why He was so good to send us Jesus, because we were hurting and needed a savior! We have Him now, so sacrifice for us doesn't mean blood-letting anymore, but submission of our will to Christ, and God. And mercy and unconditional love for others.

Note: This is just one of the answers we discussed at the seminary I'm attending. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just what I've learned so far. I'm also assuming we're talking about theology and not the worn-out "there is/is no god" argument.

Let's just go with the knowledge of good and evil. The context there was obedience. There was just one, very simple and very clear test (Gen. 2:16) AND STILL ADAM f*cked up.

If God does have a "sin", it is that He trusts us way too much. Each time the Biblical humankind sinned He never obliterates them completely, there's always a "remnant" which can start anew and do right next time. He even started it at Gen. 3.

If I were in His place I'll just delete humankind, reboot the Earth and get it over with.

Now let's go to suffering and how that mini-exegetical exercise affects you and me. Guess who has the job and the free will to fix that suffering up? The blessing on Genesis 1:28 wasn't revoked. The job associated with said blessing became harder though (Gen. 3:17-19).


He did delete mankind, save for 8 holy people, which created our current chosen ones. And He said He would never do this again, until the End.
 

Sinny91

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Sorry my posts were really poor earlier, and this device is making life difficult.

Yes, he did insulate us at first... And I very much do appreciate the teachings of Jesus Christ, his advice has never led me astray.

I also see where you are coming from in terms of authority, with your parent analogy. But I still cannot fathom how God all knowing managed to create an imperfect creation, namely us.

He also wiped out his created imperfection in the great flood... Save for Noahs 'pure' kin. So why exactly was the deal with Ham .. And how have we managed once again to get to where we are today? I thought he intended to fix that mess once and for all.

And besides all that, I hate this existence, I'd rather I didn't exist, I feel like he made us out boredom, and we are his pets, his lab rats. Why would I want to be here? What am I supposed to be grateful for? Whats the purpose of our existence?

I do suffer cognitive dissonance...between Christian and Gnostic theology.

Have you yourself explored the Gnostic interpretations? What makes you discount those interpretations?
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Sorry my posts were really poor earlier, and this device is making life difficult.

Yes, he did insulate us at first... And I very much do appreciate the teachings of Jesus Christ, his advice has never led me astray.

I also see where you are coming from in terms of authority, with your parent analogy. But I still cannot fathom how God all knowing managed to create an imperfect creation, namely us.

He also wiped out his created imperfection in the great flood... Save for Noahs 'pure' kin. So why exactly was the deal with Ham .. And how have we managed once again to get to where we are today? I thought he intended to fix that mess once and for all.

And besides all that, I hate this existence, I'd rather I didn't exist, I feel like he made us out boredom, and we are his pets, his lab rats. Why would I want to be here? What am I supposed to be grateful for? Whats the purpose of our existence?

I do suffer cognitive dissonance...between Christian and Gnostic theology.

Have you yourself explored the Gnostic interpretations? What makes you discount those interpretations?

I have often felt like I wish I did not exist either. I try to cry out to God in those instances, as He wants us to. Then He always helps me, as He promises to.


I have tried to read about gnosticism and I've stumbled unawares into its authors before. When I researched it, it's like those things that I can read and read and read and never really understand. I have learned over time that when that happens, it usually means the query is bogus. Truth is usually simple, right? When I stumble into it in some research or reading or something, at first I become intrigued (so I can understand how some are taken with it), but then I am able to see the error of it all. To me it basically seems to be a way for people to re-create God and His story in whatever way they think best, usually by twisting scripture and making it all wacked out. I have found it's usually mentally unstable people who are drawn to gnosticism, or maybe just INTs. :D
 
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I have often felt like I wish I did not exist either. I try to cry out to God in those instances, as He wants us to. Then He always helps me, as He promises to.


I have tried to read about gnosticism and I've stumbled unawares into its authors before. When I researched it, it's like those things that I can read and read and read and never really understand. I have learned over time that when that happens, it usually means the query is bogus. Truth is usually simple, right? When I stumble into it in some research or reading or something, at first I become intrigued (so I can understand how some are taken with it), but then I am able to see the error of it all. To me it basically seems to be a way for people to re-create God and His story in whatever way they think best, usually by twisting scripture and making it all wacked out. I have found it's usually mentally unstable people who are drawn to gnosticism, or maybe just INTs. :D

You don't understand it because it's a mystery school. There was a reason Gnostics were killed off and discredited by the greater church. Ignorance.

There is a distinction separation in both schools of thought really. I'd say the primary distinction is Faith vs. knowing. A gnostic knows God. A traditional Christian operates on faith. Faith leads to knowing so, there is a purpose for faith doctrine.

"Faith receives, love gives. No one will be able to receive without faith. No one will be able to give without love. Because of this, in order that we may indeed receive, we believe, and in order that we may love, we give, since if one gives without love, he has no profit from what he has given. He who has received something other than the Lord is still a Hebrew."

You say you believe in the sacrements. Gnostics have sacrements as well. Some of the higher level ones are mysteries. They aren't meant to be easily understood by the general populace. One such sacrements is that of the Bridal Chamber.

"The Lord did everything in a mystery, a baptism and a chrism and a eucharist and a redemption and a bridal chamber. [...] he said, "I came to make the things below like the things above, and the things outside like those inside. I came to unite them in the place." [...] here through types [...]and images."

Also, to your point that truth should be simple. I couldn't disagree more. The promises of in Gnostic scripture are great for one who understands. But it's not suppose to be simple. The first line in the Gospel of Thomas proves my point:

"1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

Also, your point of people being mentally unstable that are interested in gnosticism offended me greatly. I was intrigued to read what you had to say from your prior posts but after that comment...not so much.
 

Sinny91

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I was going to say in turn.... Why do I find Christianity so confusing then?

Even Jesus was Gnostic:

Mat 13:13

'Though seeing; they do not see; though hearing; they do not hear or understand'

Move mountains... We can.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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You don't understand it because it's a mystery school. There was a reason Gnostics were killed off and discredited by the greater church. Ignorance.

There is a distinction separation in both schools of thought really. I'd say the primary distinction is Faith vs. knowing. A gnostic knows God. A traditional Christian operates on faith. Faith leads to knowing so, there is a purpose for faith doctrine.

This reminds me of how the lawless need the law but the but those who abide in Christ do not need the law. To me, it is a striving for, versus an arriving.

I feel like I have arrived in my knowing of God. I know God well enough and am close enough to Him that I do not have to struggle in ways others who are still striving to find Him do. Perhaps this is the concept gnostics are appealing to, underneath the different lingo.

"Faith receives, love gives. No one will be able to receive without faith. No one will be able to give without love. Because of this, in order that we may indeed receive, we believe, and in order that we may love, we give, since if one gives without love, he has no profit from what he has given. He who has received something other than the Lord is still a Hebrew."

I don't believe in reading apocryphya personally unless it is serving some Te research function, not in order to find a truth in itself.

You say you believe in the sacrements. Gnostics have sacrements as well. Some of the higher level ones are mysteries. They aren't meant to be easily understood by the general populace. One such sacrements is that of the Bridal Chamber.

"The Lord did everything in a mystery, a baptism and a chrism and a eucharist and a redemption and a bridal chamber. [...] he said, "I came to make the things below like the things above, and the things outside like those inside. I came to unite them in the place." [...] here through types [...]and images."

Then the gnostics have pulled heavily from the Catholic church as most other religions. Welcome to the club. :)

Also, to your point that truth should be simple. I couldn't disagree more. The promises of in Gnostic scripture are great for one who understands. But it's not suppose to be simple. The first line in the Gospel of Thomas proves my point:

"1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

Truth is very simple.

But. That does not mean it is easy to see or hear. Hence Jesus' repetitive statements in that regard. God is the only one who can reveal the truth to someone's heart and mind. No amount of pseudo-intellectual discussion can do this. That in itself is a supreme mystery, isn't it?

Also, your point of people being mentally unstable that are interested in gnosticism offended me greatly. I was intrigued to read what you had to say from your prior posts but after that comment...not so much.

I notice patterns. I watch youtube videos. I have discussions online. The fruit of gnosticesm are usually intellectuals who go too far in their brain overthinking things and giving unbiblical wacked out theories and inventing things that don't even exist in the Bible, when they should be working on their heart, and growing in their relationship with God. Consequently, they go round in circles using apocrypha to make complicated mandalas (which Jung was fond of as well) of their life, instead of just simply loving God and loving their neighbor.

Our life symbol should be a simple circle with God at the center, and all paths are straight and lead to Him. If that offends you, get a new ego. :cthulhu:

I was going to say in turn.... Why do I find Christianity so confusing then?

It's confusing because it dumps everything upside down from what we are used to in our nature and what we learn in this world we live in, but it isn't confusing, per se. Loving your enemies is HARD for most and not what most want to do. To get to that place takes complete trust and faith in Christ.

Even Jesus was Gnostic:

Mat 13:13

'Though seeing; they do not see; though hearing; they do not hear or understand'

Move mountains... We can.

Jesus was a Jew who saw with the eyes and heard with the ears of God. Jesus had the mind of God.

We might not literally move mountains, but our faith can move greater than mountains, and effect change, in the spirit realm.
 

Sinny91

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But this is the thing... In Gnostic schools of thought, we can literally move mountains.

The pyramids come to mind.

The ancients possessed far more knowledge than us, I suspect.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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But this is the thing... In Gnostic schools of thought, we can literally move mountains.

The pyramids come to mind.

The ancients possessed far more knowledge than us, I suspect.

Yeah, and I believe it can be interpreted literally in the Bible as well. I like your pyramid example. That is cool.
 
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No you don't get it. Knowing does not mean a claim you know him. it is mystical experience in communion with him. Direct knowledge.

Have fun with kindergarden Christianity.

You say it's simple but it's just not. Look at Gensis 1-3. You understand that? You literally believe there was a snake in the garden. You completely understand the fall of man. You don't think there is something metaphoric there?

You are full of shit.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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No you don't get it. Knowing does not mean a claim you know him. it is mystical experience in communion with him. Direct knowledge.

Have fun with kindergarden Christianity.

You say it's simple but it's just not. Look at Gensis 1-3. You understand that? You literally believe there was a snake in the garden. You completely understand the fall of man. You don't think there is something metaphoric there?

As I said earlier, I believe the Bible scriptures exist on a continuum of literal to symbolic. The OT is full of deep, hidden meaning, yeah. I love it.

You are full of shit.

You may be right (i haven't pooped today yet). :cat:
 

Sinny91

Banned
Local time
Today 9:08 PM
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May 16, 2015
Messages
6,299
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Location
Birmingham, UK
Yup, she did say that.

Most of us are full of shit when it comes to theology, I wouldn't put yourself above anyone @fool.
 
Local time
Today 9:08 PM
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
68
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Yup, she did say that.

Most of us are full of shit when it comes to theology, I wouldn't put yourself above anyone @fool.

Yeah especially when they describe a whole school of thought and Christians as mental patients. I'm more a reader here than speaker but when I saw that I took the opportunity. My theology is rock solid thank you. Oh maybe it's just my EGO.
 
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