Help with clarifying INTP/ISTP

[bambistark]

Hi everyone! Newbie here~

Many of my friends have been bitten by the MBTI bug and I've subsequently decided to do some online tests out of curiosity. But unlike my friends, I haven't been able to wholly identify with the results - that's why I've joined this community to try and figure it out (if anyone is willing to help?)

In summary, I get INTP and ISTP interchangeably - about 50-50. I've done just about every single online test I can find, and after researching all the 16 types, I've come to the conclusion I'm more INFJ than either of the ITPs. No matter what I do, the results stubbornly place me in the ITP category - so either I lack personal insight to a catastrophic level or I just fail at being pigeon-holed.

A bit about me:
I'm a female, mid twenties. I love to buy clothes and am fashion-conscious like a stereotypical girly girl. But it's easier for me to be friends with guys than girls - on account of my more (?)masculine hobbies (?): video games, action films (explosions FYEAH), cars (i'm actually obsessed with jet fighters for no apparent reason), discussing politics, money, and admiring hot women (ahem).

ANYWAY

While I admit I do identify with some aspects of the ITP personality - namely I'm very introverted and have a tendency to overthink everything, I don't possess the level of knowledge-seeking and dissecting of information that is common to the trait. I'm very superficial and don't enjoy taking time to pull apart concepts to gain a deep understanding. I'd rather grab at general concepts and move on to the next one.

Even though I've always been good at exams (dux of high school, etc) - and I'm sure my IQ is higher than average (my profession is in health - I'm a recently graduated doctor), I'm actually quite bad at studying and retaining information. And, I've always been artistically inclined - I've been drawing for as long as I can remember, and I receive much praise for my art. I taught myself how to draw, make movies, how to play various instruments - though without lessons I haven't been able to master these skills. Overall I enjoy artistic pursuits more than more cerebral activities. Naturally curious and inquisitive I'm always reading about everything, but with the memory of a rock I can hardly boast knowledge of much.

Yet despite all this, I'm extremely opinionated, cynical, and more negative and distrustful of people/society than I should be. Some people probably think I'm a self-righteous, cold bitch, which wouldn't be entirely ... wrong. Socially, I dislike large crowds and in every aspect am introverted. However, I'm sure I'm a huge empath, to the point where it emotionally cripples me. As a doctor, I've always been told my 'people skills' are great - I can easily make patients and family feel cared for and I will disregard my own health sometimes in order to comfort someone. It is not unusual for me to spend 6 hrs with a friend and talk about ~feelings~. I actually enjoy talking about how I feel, although I do not express my feelings openly to most people. On the other hand though, I sometimes say quite inappropriate things that if overheard by a patient or one of my bosses, would get me fired. And I like to joke about death, and other politically incorrect topics. I don't know. It's weird.

One of my defining traits that throw a wrench into the ITP type is extreme laziness. Everything I do is dictated by one rule: Go with whatever that gives me more time to sleep and requires the least energy (physical and mental) expenditure. Guess that makes ISTP unlikely? I dream of being able to change the world - volunteering my skills in refugee camps, improving global health, addressing socio-economic disadvantage, etc - but my chronic inertia has so far kept these dreams from coming true. I desire to do much more than I am likely to do. Being hands-on is definitely not me, despite having fantasies of doing things, I never get around to any of them. More INTP in this aspect?

Other traits: Dreamer, idealist, spends a lot of time being emotionally invested in fictional characters/stories, being unable to stop something once i've started - e.g. games and a constant desire to obtain/do everything at once, taking on too much yet fearful of responsibilities, some risk taking behaviours like driving at excessive speeds and tendency to disregard many rules - so if disinhibited i'd be quite antisocial, sensitive to criticism, overly polite and often lets others walk all over me, lack of self esteem. I'm also very conservative with my own lifestyle despite very liberal views - actually i tend to have fairly extreme beliefs from both left and right (it's a bit hard to reconcile). Agnostic, though disdainful of religious belief. In terms of sexuality, I'm both a prude and a slut, both asexual and pansexual... and tend to antagonise/sabotage whatever relationship I'm in. More or less, I enjoy manipulating the feelings of the other person for my own gain/amusement (I know I'm a bad person) which I inevitably wind up harbouring intense guilt and self hate when it's over.

.. I think that's about as much as I can say about my personality..




...
..

TLDR: I have some aspects of ITP personality traits, but not enough to warrant being sorted into this type. I find my personality stretches the extremes of 2 ends of a spectrum - and to this date the most accurate descriptor of my personality has been the so called "Blood type personality" which most people don't take seriously. Mine being AB fits with the almost bi-polar nature of my personality. I've had little success trying to categorise myself into the MBTI.

If anyone has managed to get through the above written diarrhoea, I apologise for coming across as a complete freak and urge you not to alert the police - I swear I'm a nice person. And if anyone can help enlighten me or would like to ask me more questions to clarify things, PLEASE do let me know! It would be greatly appreciated.

*hugs*

 

[Jennywocky]

To be honest, in some ways your description sounds far more ISTP than INTP, especially your focus on the external world as well as your extreme pragmatism. INTPs do not own the market on procrastination either.

I think it's more difficult to type female ITPs than males; society and biology kind of force a mix of attributes, we end up having both social and mental skills for example, whereas it seems easier for a male to focus solely on the exploration of his mental capacities while ignoring the other.

I know you mention you are in every way introverted. (And I understand that; if you'd watch me in real life, my introversion would be apparent, but I do have enough interest in humanity, the same kind of "empathy" that you describe where I'm very much T in how I process, but I can still resonate and anticipate feelings and pick up vibes from people, and I have great communication skills in writing/online enough that some people try to type me as an extrovert). Still, I'll just throw out that a lot of what you describe could honestly also apply to the ENTP female... especially your TLDR.

 

[catatonic]

Have you learn the cognitive functions yet?
It really helps IMO, I was so confused about my type too because of the online test.
ENFP, INFJ, INFP, INTP, ISTJ, INTJ, ENTJ.
Ahahahaha very funny, the free online tests are not too good to tell what's your type.

I've many ISTPs friends, my bf is an ISTP too.
You sound more to N than S for me.

 

[bambistark]

Jenny, you make a very valid point and I agree that to an extent females possess an innate ability to empathise and communicate better in non-verbal ways. However if I compare myself to women who are extroverts and empaths, I am markedly different. The critical aspect to my ability to feel and sense is that it swings between extremes rather than being stable and applicable to a wide range of circumstances. It's hard for me to provide an example but while I can hurt inside for another's plight or suffering, I am simultaneously thinking "oh suck it up, you cripple. I hope you die soon so I don't have to feel this way." It's as if the ITP is in conflict with my empathy. I frequently experience such thoughts towards patients, friends and even family and then quickly bury them with not a small twinge of guilt. Not sure if this dichotomy is more a reflection of a personality disorder or if a reasonable aspect of my 'type'.

I should actually know that personality is a fluid construct subject to genetic, hormonal, lifestyle and environmental influences and most people don't have a stable personality construct until after 25 years of age. Any chemical change (as with drug or alcohol-induced) or structural change (e.g. dementia or stroke or the infamous case of a stake into the frontal lobe) in the brain can alter personality and a person's experience of the world quite significantly.

Thank you for your feedback!

 

[Architect]

Agree with JW; sounds like an ISTP.

 

[bambistark]

Have you learn the cognitive functions yet?
It really helps IMO, I was so confused about my type too because of the online test.
ENFP, INFJ, INFP, INTP, ISTJ, INTJ, ENTJ.
Ahahahaha very funny, the free online tests are not too good to tell what's your type.

I've many ISTPs friends, my bf is an ISTP too.
You sound more to N than S for me.

Hi catatonic, haha yes I have actually, which is why I've concluded I'm an INFJ. That is why it frustrates me to see that every test I've done has typed me as INTP/ISTP.

What I'd like to hear from this community is whether you guys think I'm right to self-categorise as an INFJ or not.

I'm actually starting to think that the way I answer the questions and how I choose to answer them have impacted on this apparently rather large discrepancy. I find that I'm unable to actually answer many questions with enough conviction - and I tend to choose the answers that I am most comfortable with, or would have picked if i were younger. If I did these tests when i was 13, I would definitely be ESTP. The way I am now makes it virtually impossible to be truthful in a manner of speaking.

 

[catatonic]

I trust the cognitive functions more than online test.
The online MBTI tests are too easy to "manipulate", I answered the tests honestly but I guess my subconscious mind at that time influenced how I answer the tests.
When my friend told me that I'm not an INFP but INTP...I continuously got INTP as my result.

I don't have enough guts to type people online, once I typed someone as INTP because of his behavior in forum...but after I communicate with him in private, he's definitely INFP. People tend to have different "personality" when they go online. I like to act as other types too when I go online.

Spoiler

Especially when I'm trolling.

But I'm sure that you're an INxx.

 

[bambistark]

Main problem with online tests is that they're not comprehensive enough. The questions tend to be either too vague or too restricted and situation-dependent. In some cases I am only able to speculate as to what I may do - rather than rely on experience. And in most tests I can foresee how the questions are funnelling you towards a certain type - so I end up gravitating towards certain patterns or while trying too hard to break from a pattern I end up giving inconsistent answers. Despite my efforts to beat the system, i still get one of 2 types XD;; I smell a conspiracy (just jk)!

I totally agree that online personas can change - that's why i've been as truthful as i can about my personality in my OP. Well, obviously when one trolls, one cannot behave normally xD;; Trolling is fun though ahaha

Yes I largely agree that on the spectrum, I'm leaning mostly towards INxx - but how to fill in the rest of it? XD

 

[own8ge]

look at teh functions! TEH FUNCTIONS!!!1!1111!!!

(Not fucking characteristics or the GOD DAMN type name)

 

[Psychic Child]

if you know who you are then there will be nothing left to know in the cosmos_-_-_

 

[bambistark]

look at teh functions! TEH FUNCTIONS!!!1!1111!!!

(Not fucking characteristics or the GOD DAMN type name)

Ok, well here we go then


Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ******************** (20.2)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) ******************************* (31.4)
good use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************* (33.2)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ******************************* (31.4)
good use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************************* (33.5)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************* (33.3)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************************** (29.3)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *************************** (27.1)
average use
Summary Analysis of Profile
By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INTP

Lead (Dominant) Process
Introverted Thinking (Ti): Gaining leverage (influence) using a framework. Detaching to study a situation from different angles and fit it to a theory, framework or principle. Checking for accuracy. Using leverage to solve the problem.

Support (Auxilliary) Process
Extraverted Intuiting (Ne): Exploring the emerging patterns. Wondering about patterns of interaction across various situations. Checking what hypotheses and meanings fit best. Trusting what emerges as you shift a situation’s dynamics.

If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENTP, or INTJ

----

I admit this is the second time doing this quiz. First time I scored very highly on Fi - subsequently typed as INFP. Second time around I ended up fence-sitting on most of the questions because I was more conflicted about how to answer them. So I feel neither of these results are accurate which brings us back to the original question.

 

[crippli]

What do you mean with being conservative?

 

[bambistark]

What do you mean with being conservative?

Haha it's not what you think, probably..

Just to clarify, did you mean in terms of my lifestyle (as stated in the OP) or political views?

If the former, then it means I don't drink alcohol, smoke, I dress modestly (more professional office lady look basically, no or minimal makeup) and live within my means. I have never used illicit substances and don't want to. I eat healthy, exercise, don't hook up with random people - in fact despite being 23 I'm still a virgin, hate dating and don't like the idea of sexual relations for myself only. In other words, I restrict my lifestyle to this somewhat prudish and boring existence. Quintessentially a cat lady, whatever that means.

 

[crippli]

Haha it's not what you think, probably..

Just to clarify, did you mean in terms of my lifestyle (as stated in the OP) or political views?

If the former, then it means I don't drink alcohol, smoke, I dress modestly (more professional office lady look basically) and live within my means, have never used illicit substances, don't hook up with random people - in fact despite being 23 I'm still a virgin, hate dating and don't like the idea of sexual relations for myself only. In other words, I restrict my lifestyle to this somewhat prudish and boring existence. Quintessentially a cat lady, whatever that means.

A great. That was exactly what I was wondering. But sexual relations for yourself only? Doesn't sexual relations involve more people? Please clarify, as I didn't quite understand this sentence.

In any case. You seem to write in a style similar to a few INFJs I have written with, as is generally easy to read for me, and I see this is also what you conclude fits best.

 

[bambistark]

A great. That was exactly what I was wondering. But sexual relations for yourself only? Doesn't sexual relations involve more people? Please clarity, as I didn't quite understand this sentence.

In any case. You seem to write in a style similar to a few INFJs I have written with, as is generally easy to read for me, and I see this is also what you conclude fits best.

Ah yes, I meant that I cannot picture myself as a sexual partner for others. I would rather be a voyeur than participate. Physical intimacy is something I am extremely uncomfortable with.

Funny you mention that - Last night I did a test posted in this forum on writing analysis and after posting my OP, it said I write like David Foster Wallace who is apparently an INFJ?

Thank you for your feedback!

 

[samjonathan]

my following contribution will not be insightful nor will it provide any useful information that has not already been stated previously in this thread, it will also be one massive ramble without many proper breaks and will be full of commas and shit...
that being said; you sound very much like a close(ish) friend of mine who i went to highschool with, the way you express your thoughts and everything is uncannily similar, she too gets INTP and ISTP interchangeably on the online tests and once got INFJ too, she puzzled me for a while because i could see arguments for and against all of them at first
i narrowed it down to ISTP eventually though, she was just too.. P to be an INFJ (narrowing it to IxxP) and while she showed outward warmth in some situations (inferior Fe) i slowly learned that inside her mind was quite cold and unemotional, and this too was her main mode of processing (which narrowed it down further to IxTP)
the final N/S business took the longest to figure out, just cos i was still learning all the stuff at the time and i didn't have an extremely firm concept of S and N and what they meant... however after studying together for our exams a few times i realised that she was looking at everything differently (her Pe function was different) she seemed to be better at rolling with things she wasn't familiar with and then familiarized herself later, there wasn't a consistent internal framework that she was fitting all of the information into, it was as though she'd look at the textbook and take a photo of it in her mind and remember it how it was presented, she is also very in the moment (these are all things i see as Se kind of traits)
so that's that i guess, my uneducated guess is that you are ISTP

 

[pjoa09]

@bambistark

Don't know if you will get this.

Quite amused I did not find this earlier.

I too am quite of a similar 'species'. I mused over INTP vs ISTP a great deal. Feel free to stalk me. I have plenty of IXTP discussions and questions brewing all the time.

I can relate to much of what you have there. I relate especially to interests in automobiles(obsessed),self-learning, explosions, and drawing. I find politics boring and

I'd suggest you to visit ISTP forums. I did, it's fairly obvious that I did and you could take their assessment. They really gave me the boot on it. Over here, it's hard to come off as an Ne because everyone is very Ne. When you go to an Se forum it really shows who's the true oddball.

You may consider yourself dismissive of intellectual masturbation but once you visit an Se forum you can understand real concrete sensory functioning. It's hard to get past a one liner there.

You could INFJ though. Really. It's hard to argue against that. You may be cynical but if you were driven to be a doctor then you must be very moved by Fe.

ALL IMO

 

[~~~]

You might be able to find a more valid test than some of the online tests if that helps. (Also what is the connection between changing the world and volunteering your skills in refugee camps, improving global health, addressing socio-economic disadvantage?)

 

[scorpiomover]

A bit about me:
I'm a female, mid twenties. I love to buy clothes and am fashion-conscious like a stereotypical girly girl. But it's easier for me to be friends with guys than girls - on account of my more (?)masculine hobbies (?): video games, action films (explosions FYEAH), cars (i'm actually obsessed with jet fighters for no apparent reason), discussing politics, money, and admiring hot women (ahem).

Sounds like you love all the things that ISTPs love.

Except for being girly. But then, you're a girl, and being girly is probably familiar and the convention where you are. If you were an INTP girl, I'd expect some comment about you thinking of your body as a "flesh suit".

One of my defining traits that throw a wrench into the ITP type is extreme laziness. Everything I do is dictated by one rule: Go with whatever that gives me more time to sleep and requires the least energy (physical and mental) expenditure. Guess that makes ISTP unlikely? I dream of being able to change the world - volunteering my skills in refugee camps, improving global health, addressing socio-economic disadvantage, etc - but my chronic inertia has so far kept these dreams from coming true. I desire to do much more than I am likely to do. Being hands-on is definitely not me, despite having fantasies of doing things, I never get around to any of them. More INTP in this aspect?

Here is an example description of an ISTP:

ISTPs present a paradoxical picture. They appear to be lazy [there's no other word for it!] but they are really energy-conservers: constant activity does not appeal, per se. Nor are they anti-activity. They simply don't believe in getting involved in the "non-essential" or during the "non-essential stage". Of course, they are willing to define "when" that is for themselves or for others but not too willing to have that defined for them. [psst: they can "mind your business" but don't want you to mind theirs!]

Sounds like you.

I think that enough of what you've written, is ISTP-ish, to convince me, that between the choice of INTP and ISTP, I'd bet on ISTP.