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Hello... disenchanted INTP chick here...

xeno_girl

thinker of thoughts
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Hello. I am back. Several of your posts inspired me to begin what has amounted to obsessive research on MBTI. Thus I return with a much better understanding of cognitive functions, however I don't feel much closer to determining my type. I continue to test as an INTP, however I still toy with the possibility of ENTP and INFJ. My uncertainty is founded on my inability to identify my dominant function and some confusion about Ni versus Ne. The functions I know for sure are Ti and Fe (with Fe due to my excessive facial expressions when speaking). Although I have been able to develop my Fe pretty well in my late 30's, it has always been an Achille's Heel of sorts for me. I have this love-hate relationship with my inferior.

So here are my questions:

1) I have read hundreds of posts on the difference between Ni and Ne. Can someone provide an example of each in action?

2) I am obsessed with gathering external sources of information via the internet, books, magazines, and sometimes talking with other people. I think this is my Ne in action. I also spend a lot of time analyzing this information and applying it to whatever problem is at hand. I believe this is a constant NeTi loop, but I don't know how to tell which comes first and is thus dominant... Ti or Ne? Can anyone help me determine my dominant?

3) Are there any emotionally mature INTPs who have been able to develop their Fe over time to the point that it functions pretty well? Or is this the giveaway that I am not an INTP? Keep in my mind, when I was younger, I was clueless with Fe and easily offended people and never knew it. My Fe was a big blind spot for me, and also a weakness.

Please help... I really need this all to make sense. Thanks and I look forward to your analysis and input.
 

GYX_Kid

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Hello. I'm a stream of thoughts inside your head.

Gathering lots of knowledge and data is stored in your internal library as Si, I think. Ti reviews what's there, and Ne makes connections. Si means INTPs need memories of identical or similar things to understand what they're experiencing in the present. And Ne is skilled at picking up on even nuance-detailed connections between "objects" identified.

I think to learn emotionality well, it helps to observe people who naturally operate in that field. Another manifestation of Ne-Si data collection-storage, Ti further massive analysis and Ne connection-building more Si stored.

As a specific example (which I even saw on youtube) if you interact with an ENFJ enough, you'll eventually be getting intuitive grasps on each others' dominant functions, and understanding more about how your own inferior functions work, since you in theory have each others' inferior function as dominant and vice versa.
 

Words

Only 1 1-F.
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So here are my questions:

1) I have read hundreds of posts on the difference between Ni and Ne. Can someone provide an example of each in action?

How about pictures?

Ni

798bb5.jpg


If you want to think of it "in action", just look at below picture then above picture. The "N" part is when something "interesting" comes out of something mundane by changing or shifting your perception of it. The Pi part is having the same object, and focusing more on your perception.

Ne

6b0da.jpg


This has some Ti in it, because you when you treat the first two statements as convenient axioms, the image internally makes sense.

The Ne happens or is "in action" when you "sense" something "new" or "interesting" in relation to the two originally mundane objects. [It's when you abstract a new category(s) and therefore discover an "interesting" relationship(s) between two seemingly unrelated things.] Thus, in the image, the quality of "falling always at an x criteria" is the new relationship/category between the cat and the bread with butter. The relationship of this new relationship with infinite energy is also new and from Ne.

Needless to say, this is only my personal understanding.

2) I am obsessed with gathering external sources of information via the internet, books, magazines, and sometimes talking with other people. I think this is my Ne in action. I also spend a lot of time analyzing this information and applying it to whatever problem is at hand. I believe this is a constant NeTi loop, but I don't know how to tell which comes first and is thus dominant... Ti or Ne? Can anyone help me determine my dominant?

Never really get what people meant by loops... it doesn't really fit me. I always shift from extroverted self to introverted self, depending on what fits me, which is why I heavily relate to ENTPs on some level.

3) Are there any emotionally mature INTPs who have been able to develop their Fe over time to the point that it functions pretty well? Or is this the giveaway that I am not an INTP? Keep in my mind, when I was younger, I was clueless with Fe and easily offended people and never knew it. My Fe was a big blind spot for me, and also a weakness.

I think Fe is much more than knowing how to not offend people.
 

xeno_girl

thinker of thoughts
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@Words the first image won't open... can you repost? The second image is resonating with me... this seems to be how I think. I love connecting vastly different things to create something new, especially for humor's sake.

Regarding Fe, when I was young I was clueless about offending people. Then in my early 20s I was basically kicked out of this training group for being an ass and having a bad attitude, and it was a very painful wakeup call that I had a massive blindspot in how other people perceived me. I spent many years then working on my interactions with people and learning how to read people. Now I think my Fe functions pretty well. But that scenario could also still apply to an immature ENTP or INFJ. A characteristic that makes me wonder if I am not an INTP is that I do really love to argue and am really not at all afraid of conflict or confrontation, unless I think I am going to directly hurt someone. From what I understand, INTPs do not like conflict... same as INFJ? I actually become pretty emotionally detached during arguments while relishing in the debate.
 

xeno_girl

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@GYX_Kid... hmmm I never understood Si to include collecting information (just storage), but now that I think about it, you are probably correct. I am not really interested in the actual facts though. I read and gather relevant information and while I am reading am analyzing it in real time. I compare the new information to logic, what I already know (Si), and how it fits with my world view, and how it applies to the problem at hand. My brain collects the info and sifts it to produce an analytic result. Usually this is intentional, except for when I am collecting info through experience or talking with people... then the process is more in the background which I then later process intentionally. @Words this is what I mean by a TiNe loop. I collect information in an extroverted way (from external sources) and analyze it.
 

Words

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Ni: http://spynet.ru/uploads/images/07/34/34/2012/05/11/798bb5.jpg

I look at functions as our way of interpreting reality, and not necesarrily sort of an "organic" part of our self. That is, being great at Fe instead of having a good Fe.

Gathering informations depends on your attitude towards the information or the nature of information. "New" abstract information can be Ne or Ni. Si and Ne are pretty much sides of the same coin, also Se-Ni.
 

xeno_girl

thinker of thoughts
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Poo... the link keeps giving me a "403 forbidden" message.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
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1) Whatever type you are, you are who you are. That will not change, irrespective of your type. Only way it will, is if you decide that because of what some test told you, that you should change who you are. So rule: You are who you are. Your MBTI type is defined by what best fits with who you are, what you do, how you think, etc, and never the other way around.

Capiche?

So, figure out who you are. Write down a whole load of your common characteristics, your quirks, etc. Then read up on the different types. Then the ones that seem most like you, probably are close to you. But they are not always right. At that point, visit the sites of the types of people you think are the likely candidates. Then do not post. Read what THEY write. Decide if you would have written that way. After reading several posts, it will become clear, that you either feel "at home" (I would have written that! And that! And that! I would have written that. But much better.) Or you will not be at home (What? Doesn't that guy think/feel/sense at all? How could anyone come up with problems/ideas like that? These people are aliens. I could make better sense of a Martian!)

2) Your type does not define your life. There are plenty of stereotypes about what certain types are supposed to be. But at the end of the day, your life is to a large extent, a product of how you act, and react to situations. If your type has a problem, and you had the same problem, then that was there the whole time, and you just didn't notice. At least, now you know what you were oblivious to, for decades. So now you can improve the situation. Or, maybe you never had the problem. Not everything that is true about a type, is true about all of that type. Most INTPs say they are very messy, and don't care. I'm a neat freak. But I was a neat freak before I ever heard of MBTI. Should I try to live in mess, even though I hate to do so, because of 4 letters?

Whatever was a problem, was a problem, but not because of MBTI. Whatever was not a problem, still is not a problem.

If you suddenly feel like being an introvert holds you back, you were always being held back. Either you were completely out of touch, or, you were simply aware that you had one or two problems, and you made compensations for it, and you didn't mind, because other people had their own problems, and so they weren't really that better off anyway.

So, if you didn't feel held back when you thought you were an ENTP, that is probably the case, and you learned to deal with your introversion in a positive manner, that made it not a problem.

1) I have read hundreds of posts on the difference between Ni and Ne. Can someone provide an example of each in action?
Not much point. Jung described Ni as a intuition that focusses on internal images, and Ne as intuition that focusses on external images. The intuition is the same in both cases. It's the source of the images and the direction of the results, that differentiates between the 2.

Ni is more like "(I have) ice cubes, and (I have) a blender, makes snowcones (that I like)."

As you well know, when we think about the things we know about, and the things we are interested in, we all tend to know them much better than anyone else. So we can think about them all day inside our head. Only when we have got something to say that we really think is worth telling other people, because telling other people will affect a change in them that we want to see happen, is it worth it to say it. Usually, with such ideas, it's just better to act on it ourselves. However, they are all about us. Often we assume they apply to everyone, when they only apply to us, and to people like us.

Ne is more like "Cars (most people have them), and wings (are everywhere on birds), makes flying cars (everyone wants them)."

When we think about the things most people know about and have access to, and the things most people know about, we get a very objective view, that appeals to a wide range of people. But different people think about things differently. People know about different things. People have access to different things. People have different goals in mind. So there is much less consistency with such things. So we really can't work it out that easily, not without a lot of input from others. So we tell other people, to get feedback, and then we feed that feedback back into Ne, via Ti, to

2) I am obsessed with gathering external sources of information via the internet, books, magazines, and sometimes talking with other people. I think this is my Ne in action. I also spend a lot of time analyzing this information and applying it to whatever problem is at hand. I believe this is a constant NeTi loop, but I don't know how to tell which comes first and is thus dominant... Ti or Ne? Can anyone help me determine my dominant?
Ti-Ne: Ti = "Think of all the possible things that can go wrong in the future." Ne = "Find a solution that deals with all of Ti's potential problems, and works for everyone."

If your attitude to any problem, is to think of all the possible things that might go wrong, not just now, but at any time in the future, and you then look for solutions that deal with all the problems, for everyone, making for a system that is bullet-proof, and that anyone can use, then you're doing INTP.

Hello. I am back. Several of your posts inspired me to begin what has amounted to obsessive research on MBTI. Thus I return with a much better understanding of cognitive functions, however I don't feel much closer to determining my type. I continue to test as an INTP, however I still toy with the possibility of ENTP and INFJ. My uncertainty is founded on my inability to identify my dominant function and some confusion about Ni versus Ne. The functions I know for sure are Ti and Fe (with Fe due to my excessive facial expressions when speaking). Although I have been able to develop my Fe pretty well in my late 30's, it has always been an Achille's Heel of sorts for me. I have this love-hate relationship with my inferior.
All us INTPs feel the same way. Our Fe is one of our strongest points. Fe makes us check that what we do, is what everyone loves. How we solve this, is by future-proofing anything, by making sure that any future problems are already solved, and by making sure that anyone can use our system, so everyone who uses our system will find it easy to use, and will almost never have problems with it. Then, whatever we do, makes everyone else's lives really, really easy, and continues to do so, for as long as people use our system. So everyone loves us, and continues to love us.

ENTPs do things the other way around. They try to invent things that work for everyone, and then once it is built and being used, they continue to look for potential problems that might occur in the future. Because their systems are put into motion with many potential problems still there, they get their systems out there much quicker than us, but they also have to deal with a lot of complaints when their systems stop working.

INFJs do things totally differently. They focus on Ni. They solve problems that work well for them, but not so great for most people. That works great for sorting out things themselves. But they always have to fix it themselves, because their solutions don't work for anyone else. They in turn apply their solutions in an Fe way. So they tend to use their solutions to make other people feel better. This immediately lends itself to being a psychotherapist, and any job involving people, where one is always hands-on, and where your solutions are addressed towards dealing with other people's feelings.

3) Are there any emotionally mature INTPs who have been able to develop their Fe over time to the point that it functions pretty well? Or is this the giveaway that I am not an INTP? Keep in my mind, when I was younger, I was clueless with Fe and easily offended people and never knew it. My Fe was a big blind spot for me, and also a weakness.
Yup. A lot of the older INTPs have developed their Fe pretty well. Maybe not as well as perfection, because us INTPs love perfection. But still, it's pretty good. It takes time and effort. But it is well worth it.
 

pjoa09

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I haven't read much of this.

Got to say this:

Hello... disenchanted INTP dick here.

Ok, on to the topic.

You do Ne much or Ti much?

I know I got a Ti because I can't get even close to Te.

Now if you don't Ti as much then you'd most likely Ne.

Ti is basically logic. Chasing logic.
Puts you into a rut. You get an idea and then you find its failures.

Ne is basically ideas. Chasing ideas.
I think an ENTP would be more optimistic than an INTP in the face of ideas.

So if you are still bouncing off the walls with ideas I'd still think you are an ENTP.

It's cool if you don't feel like talking to strangers. Your MBTI doesn't depend on who you talk to. It depends on which functions you use most comfortably and second most comfortably.
 

xeno_girl

thinker of thoughts
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@pjoa09 I am definitely not bouncing around with ideas. I was able to view some video comparisons between an ENTP and an INTP and I feel safe in crossing ENTP off the list. I am the kind of person who can focus for hours and hours... entire days... on a specific problem.

@scorpiomover... your post was extremely insightful, by far the best clarifying descriptions of these types that I have read. Thank you. Your description of the INTP approach is spot on for me. Could this possibly be closure on my obsessive quest to identify my correct type? I feel relief seeping from my limbic system even as I type.

Now if I can just resist my urge to type all the other people in my life....
 
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