Yes! - i am always amazed and rather horrified by those people who introduce all their friends, family, lovers and co-workers to each other. Although i've overcome most of the secrecy on a one-on-one level with age, i still have a huge issue with the idea of certain individuals meeting others in my life. I guess partly because i have friends who are very different from me and so although i'm more open than i used to be, they still only see a slice, and one which may have very little in common with the slice that another sees - what happens if they start comparing notes and realise my deceptions!? I've always had this terror that one day i will come home to a surprise party and find them all together...aaarrgghhh
I admit to a bit of anxiety there as well, although it was far worse in the past. I had friends and connections from various perspectives, faiths, behaviors, etc. My God-fearing family would have shit bricks if they had met some of the people I was friends with. (Heck, they'd shit bricks hearing me use phrases like "shit bricks") Throwing all those people into the same room, where I knew some would offend others, and then the offenders would become offended that someone got offended, was rather a nightmare to anticipate, since then some of their criticisms might reflect on me as well.
Yeeesh. Talk about Fe anxieties.
I don't want to believe this, it's so bleak. If it's true, we are inevitably and permanently completely alone. Of course no-one is ever going to totally understand your life in its entirity but is it possible for almost 100% understanding to emerge from years of mutual revelation unhindered by fear of causing offence?
Oh, you make it sound so
dreadful.
I don't actually look at it as "bleak," it's simply either true or not. "Bleak" is a value judgment/reaction attached based on the person considering the scenario. If it's true, it has to be dealt with in some way / come to terms with, regarldess of whether it is happy or bleak or pessimistic or optimistic sounding.
What comprises the buffer? Is it failure to be brutally honest? For me it is caused be perception of fragility - i often refrain from saying things if i think someone's feelings will be hurt. Now my holding back comes down to honesty about my darkest thoughts which i didn't make clear in my OP.
I think you aren't totally understanding where I am coming from, but I didn't explain it thoroughly either.
I'm talking about the basic reality of human non-omniscience. I will never know what it is like to be you, and you will never know what it is like to be me. Not 100%. Hopefully if we trust each other and have good intention and want to be close, then we will communicate as much of that private revelation of living as we are capable of, and we can grow close.
I'm simply saying because we cannot be each other -- the same personal makeup, the same historical past in context, even the same physical space, we will always be looking at the world from different angles even if those angles can be made close with effort. We can never be someone else, even if we can learn enough about them to think we grasp them well enough.
This isn't necessarily "bleak." It does mean there is always an aura of mystery around the other, and that mystery is not necessarily a bad thing, if you like mystery. It also demands that we communicate rather than just knowing everything without effort. It also leads us to value those relationship more where we find someone who is both capable and desiring of entering as deep a relationship as possible, to strive for an intimacy that will never be 100%.
I think if there is any disappointment for me, it stems from that crazy SX thing, where I just want to dive into someone's depths and have them dive into mine, to find each other. and if I had been able to have an intimate relationship like that in life before now, I probably wouldn't feel the inherent loneliness of it. It's like looking up into the night sky and wanting to reach out and touch all those stars, but they're too far away, across a gap too broad, for me to cross and vice versa. Maybe some day? But probably not in my lifetime. Still, the stars are glorious. I have trouble associating the word "bleak" with their transcendence. Maybe people are the same way, if I think about it -- it doesn't have to be bleak, maybe just frustrating.
I understand why you feel like this, i've had similar negative consequences from too much honesty. But for me non-disclosure feels like lying. Perception/understanding of another's mind must be complicated by definition. I want to hear and tell the whole truth even though some of it may not be pleasant to hear or admit.
Just want to say that I agree with this. And that is after spending a lot of life dealing with people who like to veneer everything with a superficial (well, to me) layer of niceness. Nowadays sometimes it leaves me ill. I mean, courtesy is not a bad thing and can show respect; but too often it also seems to be used as an avoidance mechanism for dealing with raw reality in a way that could result in positive gain. They hamstring themselves by not being able to grapple with issues directly.
I had very similar experiences with my family and early friendships and relationships - i frequently triggered incomprehensible (to me) emotional outbursts with what i thought was an uncontroversial statement of truth. Now i avoid those highly sensitive types of people and your current relationship sounds quite similar to mine. But, do you also have anti-gush fests? By this i mean are you honest with each other about negative thoughts/feelings?
I have the feeling that anything less than complete revelation is dishonest - it creates a permanent barrier which i am constantly aware of, the result of which is a feeling of isolation. I find 'if you can't say something nice, don't say anything it all' nonsensical in the context of close relationships.
Agreed. That is a rule for people who don't know each other well.
My closest friends -- as long as I know that their criticism or frustration doesn't mean they loathe me or plan to abandon me -- I prefer to have be honest with me. Honestly, as I look back, I think any reticence to that for me stems in having disapproval/criticism usually associated with abandonment and judgment; I'd rather someone be honest, as long as their investment is not questionable.
(For example, I pretty much feel like my relationship with my sister is over, honestly, because she can't get real with me. (She's ISFJ and religious, so mandated by her faith to "be nice.") But it's also a nice little excuse to not engage in a potetially contentious discussion -- which allows her to maintain her views without challenge, at expense of our relationship. I'm not really interested in sending cutesy little letters to someone and pretending to be part of each other's lives when there's a huge elephant in the middle of the room that prevents us from really accepting each other; but she would rather play that game. I understand the game, and I understand for her it's not a game and/or it serves some positive purpose in her head; but I no longer want to play it, it goes nowhere substantial, it's a cop-out.)
Personally i prefer brutal honesty, however unpleasant that may be and hearing that a loved one sometimes completely despises me for some behavioural trait (for example...i'm not actually going to post my specific darknesses lol!) would actually seem like a positive thing from my perspective - rather than feeling upset upon hearing these truths, i would be honoured by the trust that was necessary for such an admission and would be inclined to laugh and reveal similar secrets. Because we all have them, don't we??
Yes, and that dovetails nicely into what I said above -- that the ability to be brutally honest is built on a foundation of trust and commitment to another person. The haters and abandoners haven't earned (or invested) the trust necessary to earn the ability to speak with such candor; it just comes off as assault, rather than a form of intimacy.
Afterwards, we both sit there giggling because it seems so absurd to indulge in such liberties when we both regard ourselves as highly un-romantic (in the traditional sense).
Sometimes such people are hard to find. I had a taste of it, once. That relationship didn't last, but it gave me hope maybe there might be another one out there.
