Has anyone gotten over the arbitrarity of motivations?

[DrSketchpad]

Sorry if there's a thread on this already.*

Have you noticed how arbitrary everything is? I'm not merely trying to express how no atomic truth makes everything...

Wait I might have to explain atomic truth.

You've probably come across a similar idea in your thoughts, I have no idea of what other people call it.

Atomic Truth: The one and only (impossible) absolute axiom. The one thing that all other reason can stem from. It's like the limit to a discontinuous function at its point of discontinuity. You can reason all the way back to it, but it's not there. So now all reason is like building a planet from a hollow sphere instead of a single atom (but there's still more fundamental constituents).

My conclusion for this problem is that logic really is subjective. Not only subjective, but REALLY subjective. That is, absolutely. So now we're supposed to treat reason like we treat motion. There's no ultimate point of reference so we can only compare reasons to other reasons to get "somewhere."

Anyways... that wasn't necessarily the main point of the thread.

I can deal with that, but my dilemma is that every motivation feels consequently arbitrary and pointless. I'll show you what I mean:

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Ex: I want to act morally (through my search for insight) so that I can make a positive change!

Wait why do I think acting morally is acting positively? By definition? Why is it defined that way? Why not another way?

Whatever. I get it. Everything's pointless. I'll just go and be hedonistic, sensual and thrill seeking so that I can put some coins into the joy ride until I die or whatever. But why is that favorable over another course of action?

... etc.
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I don't feel depressed really. It's just that when I turn a rational eye to anything I'm doing the motivation is defeated.

I dunno. I really just wanted to know about other's experiences with this.

*I intended for that bit to be serious, but It's only hilarious to me now. I hope you get it.

 

[Sinny91]

I tend to think of it as a game that needs to be won, but we don't entirely know the rules, per se.
Part of the game is figuring out the rules.
Who survives? We never know, they're always on the other side.
[Of the veil]

 

[Brontosaurie]

This is with me all the time. I don't expect to overcome it. Just how things are.

 

[Tannhauser]

Well, yes. So now, after this realisation, one has a choice: to say Yes and aim at living life abundantly, or No and recede into a passive existence directed by whims.

 

[DrSketchpad]

@Tannhauser

That's the thing! Why do one of those things though?

@Brontosaurie

We should form a club. Wait, why though? Damn.

@Sinny91

Word.

 

[emmabobary]

This makes me think of Nietzsche´s will to power. An undeniable passion, born from the most basic instincts, is what provides the energy to strighforward get what we want.

I think you don´t really need to look for motivation in logic. What we want and how we´ll get to it, has to do more with our bestial, vane instincts. From here, to being satisfied with it, is a very personal, peculiar, subjective journey.

I remember something Schielling said: "One can only choose freely in the distress, in the angst and suffering of being" This means that we need to afront the fact that what we think we are, our desires, have no ultimate explanation, like you said: there´s no such a thing as an atomic truth; but we are the only ones to blame for what we are, even if we don´t know how we (our subjectivity) have been created. We are the only ones to blame for our decisions, beliefs, feelings and actions.

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Has this something to do with what you said? or not even close?

 

[DrSketchpad]

This makes me think of Nietzsche´s will to power. An undeniable passion, born from the most basic instincts, is what provides the energy to strighforward get what we want.

I think you don´t really need to look for motivation in logic. What we want and how we´ll get to it, has to do more with our bestial, vane instincts. From here, to being satisfied with it, is a very personal, peculiar, subjective journey.

I remember something Schielling said: "One can only choose freely in the distress, in the angst and suffering of being" This means that we need to afront the fact that what we think we are, our desires, have no ultimate explanation, like you said: there´s no such a thing as an atomic truth; but we are the only ones to blame for what we are, even if we don´t know how we (our subjectivity) have been created. We are the only ones to blame for our decisions, beliefs, feelings and actions.

-------------------------
Has this something to do with what you said? or not even close?

Yeah that has everything to do with what I said. That's basically what my personal "solution" is. That is, to follow an instinctual passion (which functions basically already describe, which is convenient). It's just disappointing that my ego is counterproductive is all. I want pulling my own strings to be satisfying.

 

[DrSketchpad]

It's not about doing good or bad. It's about doing whatever you need to while finding ways of mitigating the consequences.

That still feels really pointless.

 

[Tannhauser]

Btw, notice that you had to qualify your stance with "I am not depressed". That is reasonable to do, because if you tell this stuff to people, they think you should be medicated. Most people don't treat this as a valid problem, for some reason.

There is a great book, which starts with the assumption that it is a valid problem, and provides a treatment of various people who engaged in expositions of it – including Nietzsche, Dostoyevsky, Sartre, Camus, also artists like Van Gogh, writers like Eliot, Shaw, Lawrence etc. The book is called "The Outsider" by Colin Wilson. Highly recommended.

 

[emmabobary]

yeiii I hit the spot.
But I still don´t see where the problem is.


I guess is something more like indecision (?), what you´re talking about.
What you have doesn´t satisfy you and getting something else wouldn´t make any difference anyway. If anyway, and whatever happens everything will remain the same, why even try.
mmmm...
There´s still something missing.
You say you find this way, in which things work, funny; yet at the same time you are dissappointed.

Spoiler

 

[Minuend]

For me it never had an impact on motivation or how I chose to live my life (why should it?). (It only felt bad when I was already depressed, which meant it wasn't really the problem, the other problems making me depressed were. And for a lot of people I guess it's the same, that's why they tend to ask whether you're depressed I guess).

I guess some personality types would prefer having some universal "law" that guides purpose and motivations, while others just doesn't need such an external reference (or prefer being without it). Perhaps this could be related to functions in some way

This thread is kinda similar to this one