Fundamentals of the INTP.

[Etheri]

This thread is fairly simple, and will start of as a question.

(1) What rules should an INTP live by (at all times)? Rules to the life of an INTP - Go!

(2) Rules for those who live with / are friends with / in a relationship with / ... an INTP. What should they keep in mind, what things should they do, or should they never do?

And -it goes without saying-, feel free to correct, falsify or refine eachothers 'rules'.


PS. I'm awfully drunk (and due to that emotional) at the moment, which means i'm also absolutely retarded compared to the way i usually am. Anyone expecting a proper answer will have to wait until I sober up.

 

[BigApplePi]

(1) What rules should an INTP live by (at all times)? Rules to the life of an INTP - Go!

Honor that you like to think. Don't hide that from others. Be aware you are subject to sensual influence and take note. Work on developing social awareness. Work hard but be prepared to make mistakes. Ask for feedback. Don't seek perfection.

(2) Rules for those who live with / are friends with / in a relationship with / ... an INTP. What should they keep in mind, what things should they do, or should they never do?

What to do with an INTP (These are from other notes):
Do: Be direct, don't f around, take your time with them, hang in there, be reliable, state your position with evidence.

Don't: Be messy or disorganized, don't be too casual, don't expect leaps of faith, don't leave things to chance, don't appeal to personal gain, never threaten or coax, don't rush the INTP, don't manipulate, don't push.

PS. I'm awfully drunk (and due to that emotional) at the moment, which means i'm also absolutely retarded compared to the way i usually am. Anyone expecting a proper answer will have to wait until I sober up.

Si behavior but good thinking.

 

[Crazythinker1]

Intp's have no rules, we find them to be too damn constricting. As for the second question; just give them a description of the typical INTP, that should work.

 

[BigApplePi]

Intp's have no rules, we find them to be too damn constricting.

Doesn't any entity that is defined have an inside and an outside? Wouldn't defining that make rules? Maybe "rules" is the wrong word.

 

[NinjaSurfer]

1. If you want to be accepted into society, try your best not to let others know what you're really thinking; they will think you are weird.

 

[Crazythinker1]

Doesn't any entity that is defined have an inside and an outside? Wouldn't defining that make rules? Maybe "rules" is the wrong word.

I formulated my response using the context of the sentence. In this case, the word rules I took to mean"A principle or regulation that governs conduct". From my own experience, and from research into the MBTI, we INTP's don't much like rules, we prefer things to be a bit more open ended and free form.

 

[BigApplePi]

1. If you want to be accepted into society, try your best not to let others know what you're really thinking; they will think you are weird.

I'm going to have to think about that.
Okay. Okay. I'm not thinking. I'm not thinking.

 

[Cognisant]

1. If you want to be accepted into society, try your best not to let others know what you're really thinking; they will think you are weird.

No no y'see the trick is not to let them mutter it behind your back, I openly admit to being weird, indeed I make a point of letting people know that I know I'm weird and that I wouldn't want to be any other way, so when I'm being weird they dismiss it as "oh yeah that's just how he is, he likes to be weird".

The problem is it creates an expectation of weirdness that I have to live up to

 

[Etheri]

Honor that you like to think. Don't hide that from others. Be aware you are subject to sensual influence and take note. Work on developing social awareness. Work hard but be prepared to make mistakes. Ask for feedback. Don't seek perfection.

I consider perfection an unachievable limit, and i doubt it's worthwhile to strive for in most cases. In building my own little way of life and, since I think this is strongly linked to who I am, striving for constant improvement can be a good thing. I do seek feedback, and people to talk to. I find talking about the things I've thought about extremely satisfying, and it helps me both order and improve my thoughts. That being said, often their feedback feels like an anticlimax when I feel people 'cannot argue properly'. When their arguments as to why they think diffrent are 'just cause', one man examples, or run over by emotions and logical flaws.

Si behavior but good thinking.

Usually, I drink to 'forget' I'd rather be alone (when around people). I rarely get truly drunk, and even drunk I don't do 'stupid' things. I won't become the life of the party, but I'll stop having the desperate need to crawl into a hole or run off into solitude. As if it stops me caring for their constant flow of incoherent thought. These nights still don't have much value to me, even if, when the conditions are right, i can enjoy them in the moment. I'll still be so very happy to be alone at the end of the night. But it does avoid other people's rant about how I wasn't there or this or that. It lets me be at events where friends deem it important I be there.

Intp's have no rules, we find them to be too damn constricting.

Then consider them guidelines, to abide by as you wish, whenever it please you. Whether you like it or not, you cannot escape. One is never truly free.

1. If you want to be accepted into society, try your best not to let others know what you're really thinking; they will think you are weird.

This makes sense, and I do this in regard to most people. That being said, I don't feel like 'I' am truly accepted if they accept me as 'someone else'. Is it worth being accepted if you're being someone else?

No no y'see the trick is not to let them mutter it behind your back, I openly admit to being weird, indeed I make a point of letting people know that I know I'm weird and that I wouldn't want to be any other way, so when I'm being weird they dismiss it as "oh yeah that's just how he is, he likes to be weird".

The problem is it creates an expectation of weirdness that I have to live up to

I'll think about that. Does being weird not draw attention and comments from others?

'How does one deal with society?'

 

[AureliaSeverina]

'How does one deal with society?'

One doesn't deal with society, one deals with individuals.
'Society' is an excuse that sheeple make up so they don't have to use their own head. Society is everyone assuming that others have expectations of them, which they might or might not have. 'Society' is anticipatory obedience to expecations that may be real or only imagined.

I'm not against society (co-operation etc.) as such, but 'society' isn't a person or entity that exists in any solid shape. It's being constantly re-negotiated by the people who make up society. You can live in your own little niche quite comfortably, without 'society' ever taking notice of you.
It's individuals who take notice of you and you have to deal with each of them 1:1.

 

[Etheri]

Spoiler

One doesn't deal with society, one deals with individuals.
'Society' is an excuse that sheeple make up so they don't have to use their own head. Society is everyone assuming that others have expectations of them, which they might or might not have. 'Society' is anticipatory obedience to expecations that may be real or only imagined.

I'm not against society (co-operation etc.) as such, but 'society' isn't a person or entity that exists in any solid shaped. It's being constantly re-negotiated by the people who make up society. You can live in your own little niche quite comfortably, without 'society' ever taking notice of you.

It's individuals who take notice of you and you have to deal with each of them 1:1.

I agree with you, but am not satisfied by the answer. Not because the answer wasn't good, but because it's not what I meant. I assume i should rephrase my question and try to be more clear.
How do you deal with (all the) individuals who'll compare you to 'their' norms. ('Their, as I firmly believe most people measure by what they believe is expected in 'society', while this is clearly not set in stone, it rarely seems well funded within the person and rather to depend on their environment.)

Consider these sidequestions, the idea of finding guidelines to live by still remains; I assume i'm just trying to steer for solutions of the things I myself find i have trouble with.

 

[BigApplePi]

Here is a different answer:

This thread is fairly simple, and will start of as a question.

The thread may be simple but the questions are not.

(1) What rules should an INTP live by (at all times)? Rules to the life of an INTP - Go!

Same as ANY type should live by. Have some long-term pursuit in mind no matter how vague. Collect shorter term pursuits that can be knocked off whenever ... . Have short term things to do you like to do or need to do even if it's just hanging out. Since you are the being who is doing these things, you need to know who and what you are ... your capacities and limitations.

To be more concrete, know:
(1) How you want your social life to go.
(2) How you want your love life to go.
(3) How you want you vocational life to go

regardless of whether you've gotten there or not. Revise when you've discovered your limitations.

 

[intpz]

Ummm... Rules? I don't think INTPs like rules.

 

[BigApplePi]

Ummm... Rules? I don't think INTPs like rules.

Can you name a rule you don' t like?

I'm curious about rules. What makes things tick? I like to hunt down the rules. Once I've tried them, I leave them alone to fester percolate. If I ever come back to them, I'd like to see if they still apply. If they no longer apply, what has changed? Me or the situation?

 

[intpz]

First one that comes to mind is a social rule: be nice to people. Why the fuck would I want to be nice to some asshole going about his trip that he took 6 to 13 years ago and found a stick in a shape of a penis for half an hour? Damn, I'd rather sit in silence.

 

[Etheri]

Ummm... Rules? I don't think INTPs like rules.

You state that we don't like rules strongly enough to be considered a rule, rendering your argument void. However, since you stated it as what could be a rule, one could argue you added to the thread, despite the fact that I disagree.

Again, if not rules, then guidelines. The fact that we don't like things to be set in stone (rules) could be a good guideline, and just fine, but then state it as such.

As for your example regarding being nice to people. That makes lots of sense to me, but having to go through the drama people make when you piss them off, i'd rather just listen to their nonsense, ignore them or walk away than not be nice to them to the point of insulting.

 

[intpz]

I didn't state it as a rule, I stated it as a thing that is generally not liked by INTPs. That's not a rule. A rule is a guideline, a principle.

But c'mon, doesn't letting them know that they are boring as fuck make you feel better? Doesn't expressing your opinion makes you feel nice and warm and fuzzy and awesome and *insert another bullshit adjective here*?

 

[Etheri]

I didn't state it as a rule, I stated it as a thing that is generally not liked by INTPs. That's not a rule. A rule is a guideline, a principle.

But c'mon, doesn't letting them know that they are boring as fuck make you feel better? Doesn't expressing your opinion makes you feel nice and warm and fuzzy and awesome and *insert another bullshit adjective here*?

I still don't see the diffrence. A rule we go by, or something we generally like... Where lies the fundamental diffrence? I'm not asking anyone to write 10 commandments for INTPs, just things we abide, need, want, anything that applies mostly to INTPs in general, (perfably just to our type in specific, or extra, but this is not implied).

Yes, it does, if i can actually care, and only for a split second. But if they go all rage emo after, their hassle quickly makes up for me having lost control of my tongue. Besides, does making people smile and feel good through what you've said and done not make you feel good, by empathy? Even if i think they're complete retards, if I can make them happy, i'll often just smile and think I did them a favour. Besides, I feel that making people smile then running off tends to work better than pissing them off then trying to stop the conversation.

To me, having to tell people what you're thinking of them, making people feel bad because they make you feel blehr, or they bore you, and other emotional childplay feels very... retarded. People do it all the time, but I just don't get it. It doesn't make logical sense, I get that it resolves their emotions - for a split second - but as soon as you think for longer than 20 seconds you realise they gained NOTHING by following their emotions.

 

[intpz]

A rule is a made-up limitation. Is liking pizza a made-up limitation?

Okay, take this situation: you're waiting for a lawyer visit, or whatever official business. According to the paper you've got, you should've already been talking to the guy, but there's still one guy waiting and the lawyer's with another client. The guy sitting next to you starts talking about boring and meaningless shit that you don't give half a shit about, something really, REALLY boring. Would you rather tell him to shut the fuck up and make him unhappy AND take charge and shut him up when he starts talking about you being impolite, or would you rather listen to his bullshit for half an hour with a constant smile on your face? You can't choose do something else whatever reason, if you choose to do something else, god will strike you dead and you will burn in hell for eternity while watching your family and friends die in various ways repeatedly - literally this time, not fictional bullshit.

What do you do? Shut the asshole up or smile and listen to the bullshit for half hour? I'd prefer the bullshit-free scenario, rather than pretentious hypocrite scenario.

 

[Etheri]

Spoiler

A rule is a made-up limitation. Is liking pizza a made-up limitation?

Okay, take this situation: you're waiting for a lawyer visit, or whatever official business. According to the paper you've got, you should've already been talking to the guy, but there's still one guy waiting and the lawyer's with another client. The guy sitting next to you starts talking about boring and meaningless shit that you don't give half a shit about, something really, REALLY boring. Would you rather tell him to shut the fuck up and make him unhappy AND take charge and shut him up when he starts talking about you being impolite, or would you rather listen to his bullshit for half an hour with a constant smile on your face? You can't choose do something else whatever reason, if you choose to do something else, god will strike you dead and you will burn in hell for eternity while watching your family and friends die in various ways repeatedly - literally this time, not fictional bullshit.

What do you do? Shut the asshole up or smile and listen to the bullshit for half hour? I'd prefer the bullshit-free scenario, rather than pretentious hypocrite scenario.

And if [most INTPs like pizza] we could see that as a regularity, and consider it a rule. Not something we /must/ abide, just something we abide in general anyways.

I don't believe in god, so i'm fine regarding that. Whether I listen and think he's a retard, or I tell him i'd rather shush, i'd do both in a manner that offends him the least possible. You can tell people you're not really interested, and you can tell people to stfu. Personally, I don't really care about the connotations attached to my message just cause, but I found that it helps to do things the friendly ways.

There's nothing wrong with telling people the truth - that you honestly don't give a fuck about them or anything they have to say-, it's just about doing it in the best manner possible, which generally involves doing it nicely. If not for their sake, then do it for your own, as it keeps you out of trouble and in the background.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

My only real rule in life is this: "Do what you want. Just don't be a dick."

As for other people, I'd like them (I'm often let down) to live by this rule: "Do what you want. Just don't be a dick."

The key point on both of these is the "don't be a dick" part.

 

[intpz]

And if [most INTPs like pizza] we could see that as a regularity, and consider it a rule. Not something we /must/ abide, just something we abide in general anyways.

I don't believe in god, so i'm fine regarding that. Whether I listen and think he's a retard, or I tell him i'd rather shush, i'd do both in a manner that offends him the least possible. You can tell people you're not really interested, and you can tell people to stfu. Personally, I don't really care about the connotations attached to my message just cause, but I found that it helps to do things the friendly ways.

There's nothing wrong with telling people the truth - that you honestly don't give a fuck about them or anything they have to say-, it's just about doing it in the best manner possible, which generally involves doing it nicely. If not for their sake, then do it for your own, as it keeps you out of trouble and in the background.

A rule ABOUT INTPs, not a rule FOR INTPs, if you wanna see it as a rule.

So after all, you'd go the "shut the fuck up" way.

 

[Etheri]

A rule ABOUT INTPs, not a rule FOR INTPs, if you wanna see it as a rule.

So after all, you'd go the "shut the fuck up" way.

As long as INTP's abide by it. I mean, honestly, if 20 of you told me I should go out and be social every day to grow as a person, i'd still not do it. I'm asking for any regularities and or tips or rules that could help or be interesting to any INTP.

And yes, after all, I might well go for the 'shut the fuck up' way, but as cheeseumpuffs would say, I wouldn't be a dick about it. You can tell people to shush nicely, too. Which goes back to your example, even if you tell people you're not interested, you can still do it nicely.

The key point is the "don't be a dick" part.

 

[intpz]

But it's fun being a dick.

Yea, you can, quite a few people get irritated because of that too. They think we are "inclined" to listen to them. Especially 40+-year-olds.

 

[ctobola]

This thread is fairly simple, and will start of as a question.

(1) What rules should an INTP live by (at all times)? Rules to the life of an INTP - Go!

For the last few years, these have been hanging over my desk with the title "Commandments for INTPS":

1. You are not about to fail. Stop worrying about it.
2. Stop thinking so you can brainstorm.
3. You may speak up without making a spectacle of yourself.
4. You do not need to have the last word.
5. Don’t explain yourself every time you do something - you don't always need to justify your actions.
6. You see connections that other people don’t. You often can’t explain these, and they won’t understand them anyway.

I think all INTPs should also be required to read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. It has provided some simple but extremely effective tools to help me develop stronger interpersonal skills - including how to deal with socially awkward situations. It has definitely made a difference in my career.