Free Will

[fluffy]

So I think that you travel down a pathway.

You can see ahead.

You can backtrack but not completely.

And the reason for this is to learn the consequences of your actions.

In some sense this is spiritual.

We exist in a world of awareness.

So reality can be good or bad.

We know this in spirit.

Thus choices affect life.

The future is not set in stone.

 

[fluffy]

I want to maintain myself.

So I have awareness of my existence.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

WILL = GOAL-SEEKING IN SERVICE OF DESIRE

BASED ON PAST EXPERIENCE

without past experience you have no will

your will can never be severed from past

YOU CAN'T TAKE CREDIT OR BLAME FOR FULLY CAUSED EVENTS

YOU CAN'T TAKE CREDIT OR BLAME FOR FULLY UNCAUSED EVENTS

combining caused and uncaused does nothing to solve this

 

[fluffy]

Are you aware of your existence?

Can choices be evaluated?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Can choices be evaluated?

apparent choices can only be identified based on cognitive capability and past experience

apparent choices can only be evaluated on data available to the individual also based on cognitive capability and past experience

there may be some random noise injected, or unidentified variables

but tautologically speaking

these variables must be (EITHER) caused (OR) uncaused

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Are you aware of your existence?

obviously

 

[fluffy]

Are you aware of your existence?

obviously

Did you cause this and or maintain it?

If not, what is, from which direction is it being sustained?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Did you cause this and or maintain it?

i am a logiczombie preprogrammed at the dawn of time by NOUMENON

 

[fluffy]

Did you cause this and or maintain it?

i am a logiczombie preprogrammed at the dawn of time by NOUMENON

Could the noumenon have programmed you in a different way, is the future unchangeable?

What makes this noumenon the way it is?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Could the noumenon have programmed you in a different way,

probably already did about 8 billion times at least

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

is the future unchangeable?

everything you do has an effect on the future

everything you do is an effect of the past

plus some degree of potential random noise

so, not necessarily a purely 1 + 1 = 2

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

What makes this noumenon the way it is?

NOUMENON = UNKNOWN + UNKNOWABLE + WHAT YOU KNOW

 

[Puffy]

I believe in destiny. I feel like we have choice over the little things but that the big things will happen regardless of choice but might happen in different ways depending on what little choices we make.

To put it in less metaphysical terms, I can't help who raised me, what home and town I grew up in, and as a result a lot of my early formative experiences that will determine who I become, what challenges I have to overcome, what I need to heal, and a lot of aspects of my future life. There are lots of choices I might make along the way but there will always be an element of big themes I can't avoid or control.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I believe in destiny. I feel like we have choice over the little things but that the big things will happen regardless of choice but might happen in different ways depending on what little choices we make.

To put it in less metaphysical terms, I can't help who raised me, what home and town I grew up in, and as a result a lot of my early formative experiences that will determine who I become, what challenges I have to overcome, what I need to heal, and a lot of aspects of my future life. There are lots of choices I might make along the way but there will always be an element of big themes I can't avoid or control.

you can't take credit for your capacity to learn and the data you accumulate

 

[Puffy]

I believe in destiny. I feel like we have choice over the little things but that the big things will happen regardless of choice but might happen in different ways depending on what little choices we make.

To put it in less metaphysical terms, I can't help who raised me, what home and town I grew up in, and as a result a lot of my early formative experiences that will determine who I become, what challenges I have to overcome, what I need to heal, and a lot of aspects of my future life. There are lots of choices I might make along the way but there will always be an element of big themes I can't avoid or control.

you can't take credit for your capacity to learn and the data you accumulate

I'm not sure what you mean sorry, is it possible to elaborate?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I'm not sure what you mean sorry, is it possible to elaborate?

how you apply your will is 100% - datacollection+goal-seeking+prediction (+some potential for random noise)

 

[fluffy]

I cannot take credit for the way I am now from the past.

But can I decide to take control of myself in the now to be aware of my actions and the consequences of my actions?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

But can I decide to take control of myself in the now to be aware of my actions and the consequences of my actions?

only to the degree that you are motivated by your experience

 

[Thurlor]

Doesn't free-will rely on humans having a-causal properties? Unless you wish to play compatibilist word games and re-define free will.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Doesn't free-will rely on humans having a-causal properties? Unless you wish to play compatibilist word games and re-define free will.

non-causal is functionally indistinguishable from random

and a random event is not an "intentional act of will"