Feminism: Oppression or Victim Mentality?

[Cognisant]

Feminists I'm calling you out, are you actually oppressed or is it just a victim mentality?

What oppression do you face? Be specific, tell me how it affects you.

To be charitable let me expand the scope of "oppression", there's hard systemic oppression (as a rule you are specifically excluded from an opportunity because of your gender) and soft systemic oppression would be something like you get overlooked for managerial positions because there's a perception that female managers are inherently lacking somehow.

What negative perceptions are you oppressed by?
Importantly, why are those negative perceptions invalid?

Granted actual patriarchy based systemic oppression does exist and if someone from Dubai responds with "I wasn't allowed to get an education or a job and my husband was chosen for me" etc, obviously that is legitimate oppression, but I don't think those are the feminists on this forum.

 

[BurnedOut]

Is not domestic violence towards non-hetero males enough for you to understand the severity of oppression? I don't know about the LGBTQ, but there is a universal empirical consensus on the fact that women in general experience higher levels of poverty, violence and economic discrimination.

Poverty deepens for women and girls, according to latest projections

Two years on, the unpredictable course of this pandemic continues to upend prospects for growth and poverty reduction.

data.unwomen.org

I am assuming that your question is directed towards Karen pseudofeminists who have been polluting the discourse in the media by simply hating men for being men. Feminism is supposed to analyse gender equality. I have immense difficulty clarifying this to people who call themselves feminists, especially women who have stumbled on feminism who ironically call me patriarchal when I affront their unnecessary politics of hatred in lieu of genuine discourse and understanding.

 

[Cognisant]

Is not domestic violence towards non-hetero males enough for you to understand the severity of oppression?

Are you a non-hetero male? If not then how is this relevant?

Gorillas are critically endangered, OMG it's The Patriarchy!

I don't know about the LGBTQ, but there is a universal empirical consensus on the fact that women in general experience higher levels of poverty, violence and economic discrimination.

Alright I skimmed through but it looks like the biggest difference was about 19 and conveniently the lowest poverty headcount was in 2019 so that should give us the most generous percentage difference between the number of men and women.

In 2019: 339 is 94.957% of 357.
There was about 5.042% more women in poverty than men.

In 2023: 417 is 95.642201834862% of 436.
Now there is about 4.357% more women in poverty than men.

I mean, yeah? Poor people live in poor countries and often lack an education, so the work that is available to them is more often than not some form of physical labor, not cushy office jobs, so the gender difference is actually less than I expected and its going down which is great to see. Better still poverty as a whole is trending down and is projected to do so until 2030, that's great news!

Back on topic, how does this affect you? Is this oppression or are you just citing a statistic (which has nothing to do with you) to justify your victim mentality?

Why are YOU a feminist BurnedOut? How is The Man oppressing You?

 

[Black Rose]

to justify your victim mentality?

accusing people of victim mentality is very superficial if you ask me.

 

[BurnedOut]

Are you talking about women or talking about feminists? I am confused.

 

[Cognisant]

I'm talking about you, the oppression you supposedly face.

I want you to either admit that you are not personally a victim of oppression or to tell me specifically what that oppression is.

I'm calling you out on playing a shell game where you talk about women's suffrage as a whole as if you are affected by it personally, but you're not, nobody's keeping you down. I think the first world feminist's problem isn't that there's a glass ceiling but rather a lack of personal accountability, a victim mentality.

You're not a non-hetero male, you're not below the poverty line, stop using other people's problems to justify your bad attitude because the thing is that attitude is not doing you any favors.

If you feel you're not given the respect you deserve, take it, work hard, be successful, make the world meet you on your terms. You want the privilege of being a man here it is, you are nothing, a man has no inherent value, a man is appreciated solely for what he does and that is a privilege because it is humbling.

That's why men earn more, that's why there's more male CEOs, that's why most every great thing ever done was done first by a man, because a man is nothing until he does something. Not that all men are successful, indeed most aren't, most men live their entire lives in quiet desperation striving to keep up with the expectations upon them, trying and often failing to simply not be a failure.

First world feminists have this indigence, this "I'm not just a woman" attitude, not realizing that just a woman is more than many men will ever be.

I am assuming that your question is directed towards Karen pseudofeminists who have been polluting the discourse in the media by simply hating men for being men. Feminism is supposed to analyse gender equality. I have immense difficulty clarifying this to people who call themselves feminists, especially women who have stumbled on feminism who ironically call me patriarchal when I affront their unnecessary politics of hatred in lieu of genuine discourse and understanding.

I just now saw this part, was that a later addition or did I miss it after following the link? Ehh either way what I wrote stands on its own merit.

 

[BurnedOut]

You're not a non-hetero male, you're not below the poverty line, stop using other people's problems to justify your bad attitude because the thing is that attitude is not doing you any favors.

Bad attitude? You have a problem with me calling out on behaviors that are undermining of LGBTQ and women in general. Doing me any favours? It has never done me any favour and frankly I don't give two flying fucks about it. You are the only one getting butthurt on men being chasistized in contrast to others, now you have started this thread asking an idiotic question on whether feminists themselves face any kind of oppression which has nothing to do with the topic covered by feminism whatsoever. If you are using a Socratic form of reasoning and displaying skeptic over the information provided by me just because I am not a non-hetero male, you will find no epistemological follies in my arguments or my observations because I am thorough with my observations and research rendering your gripe with me as invalid insofar my gender is concerned. So what is your problem? Do you want to exclude hetero-males from the discourse because simply they are not non-hetero males?

To be charitable let me expand the scope of "oppression", there's hard systemic oppression (as a rule you are specifically excluded from an opportunity because of your gender) and soft systemic oppression would be something like you get overlooked for managerial positions because there's a perception that female managers are inherently lacking somehow.

You talk about females here then in the first paragraph you restrict your N to feminists. Not sure how this is not supposed to bamboozle me or anybody else reading your OP.

Granted actual patriarchy based systemic oppression does exist and if someone from Dubai responds with "I wasn't allowed to get an education or a job and my husband was chosen for me" etc, obviously that is legitimate oppression, but I don't think those are the feminists on this forum.

Now again. You refer to women here because non-heteros don't have husbands in Dubai.

If you feel you're not given the respect you deserve, take it, work hard, be successful, make the world meet you on your terms. You want the privilege of being a man here it is, you are nothing, a man has no inherent value, a man is appreciated solely for what he does and that is a privilege because it is humbling.

Oh, the advice. I spent 22 years of my life nursing young hatchlings. I don't care about anybody's respect, nor yours. If I get it, I get it, if I don't then it's not in my control. In either cases, I am free to do whatever. So that's a non-sequitur rambling of yours.

What negative perceptions are you oppressed by?
Importantly, why are those negative perceptions invalid?

Feminism measures the superset of non-hetero non-males and non-hetero males and not the subset. If you create a new superset out of the subset, the new superset is still a subset of the original superset.

Feminists I'm calling you out, are you actually oppressed or is it just a victim mentality?

Read my argument above.

I am interested to know why you harbour such belligerence towards feminists. Feminism does not imply being against males just because it starts with the letters femini, your brain autofills the gap and you keep assuming it's about females and non-non-hetero-males

 

[Cognisant]

Bad attitude? You have a problem with me calling out on behaviors that are undermining of LGBTQ and women in general.

I didn't bring LGBTQ+ into this, that was you, I'm not going to let you put that millstone around my neck so stop trying. LGBTQ+ has nothing to do with this.

Feminism does not imply being against males just because it starts with the letters femini, your brain autofills the gap and you keep assuming it's about females and non-non-hetero-males

To me Feminism is about women's rights, specifically the lack thereof.

I'm not attacking Feminism itself, I'm specifically calling out the "feminists" who are claiming oppression by association, that because some women are facing legitimate systematic oppression that all women are which is simply not true and I'm not going to let you pretend that I'm attacking Feminism itself because that's exactly the sort of bait and switch game I'm talking about.

Stop deflecting, stop trying to make out that this discussion is about something else, either tell me in no uncertain terms how you are personally oppressed by men or admit that you're not.

Bad attitude?

That other thread when you were character assassinating the college faculty for essentially being male, acting like you're somehow oppressed by them.

If you're not one of those "Karen pseudofeminists" as you say just admit that you're not oppressed.

 

[BurnedOut]

Stop deflecting, stop trying to make out that this discussion is about something else, either tell me in no uncertain terms how you are personally oppressed by men or admit that you're not.

All you wanted is to 'bait and switch' feminists here and then bash them with no kind of reasoning. Also, you said nothing about how your OP is confusing.

That other thread when you were character assassinating the college faculty for essentially being male, acting like you're somehow oppressed by them.

Yeah, I saw the same diddly sneaking into the girl's hostel when there were no female guards and superintendents around. It's not my fault that you are fine with a 45+ old guy oggling at breasts of women sitting in front of them. Tell me if you have done the same and exculpated yourself by using your 'obligate perversion' theory.

I'm not attacking Feminism itself, I'm specifically calling out the "feminists" who are claiming oppression by association, that because some women are facing legitimate systematic oppression that all women are which is simply not true and I'm not going to let you pretend that I'm attacking Feminism itself because that's exactly the sort of bait and switch game I'm talking about.

Your OP is incoherent, your targets are misdirected. You somehow think feminists are a distinct category than other genders. Kahneman and others wrote a page about your incorrect reasoning as you are violating the conjunction rule by confusing the set relations within the categories you are drawing.

To me Feminism is about women's rights, specifically the lack thereof.

Is it not your fault that you created your own version of feminism which is similar to the concoction reddit's meninists use to behave like Karen antifeminists?

It's funny how you made two threads without an iota of research or even basic interviewing and then created your own version of feminism. Then you want feminists here to listen to your accusations for no reason. Talk about bad attitude here Cog

 

[Cognisant]

All you wanted is to 'bait and switch' feminists here and then bash them with no kind of reasoning. Also, you said nothing about how your OP is confusing.

My questions are directed at the individual, you're the one purposefully misinterpreting what this is about to avoid answering them.

Yeah, I saw the same diddly sneaking into the girl's hostel when there were no female guards and superintendents around. It's not my fault that you are fine with a 45+ old guy oggling at breasts of women sitting in front of them. Tell me if you have done the same and exculpated yourself by using your 'obligate perversion' theory.

I don't subscribe to social justice, I'm not responsible for someone else's actions, if anyone is culpable for not intervening in that situation it was you for failing to report him to the authorities.

Your OP is incoherent, your targets are misdirected. You somehow think feminists are a distinct category than other genders. Kahneman and others wrote a page about your incorrect reasoning as you are violating the conjunction rule by confusing the set relations within the categories you are drawing.

I have no idea what the hell you're on about, feminism is an ideology, men can be feminists if they are actively in support of defending/establishing women's rights.
Stop deflecting, answer the questions.

Is it not your fault that you created your own version of feminism which is similar to the concoction reddit's meninists use to behave like Karen antifeminists?

How does my version differ from Wikipedia's?

Feminism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Are you really sure I'm the one making up definitions?

Stop deflecting, stop trying to make out that this discussion is about something else, either tell me in no uncertain terms how you are personally oppressed by men or admit that you're not.

 

[BurnedOut]

Feminism is a range of socio-political movements and ideologies that aim to define and establish the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes

You confuse feminism with feminist movements.

I don't subscribe to social justice, I'm not responsible for someone else's actions, if anyone is culpable for not intervening in that situation it was you for failing to report him to the authorities.

That's just dumb. I live in India. Indian policemen themselves rape women and other female policemen at police stations. Running to the law has been the best measure. Oh, there's Sharia 'law' too. Of course, citizens themselves share no obligation to at least have a discourse on undesirable behaviors if not active intervention when it is not going to yield anything.

I have no idea what the hell you're on about, feminism is an ideology, men can be feminists if they are actively in support of defending/establishing women's rights.

Don't nonnonheteromales have a right to be treated respectfuly? That's simply a legal right for you, not a basic condition for human dignity. You have a problem with me specifically to do 'social justice' on the virtue of pissing you off by not subscribing to your obligate pervert theory which you expect men to generally accept. For you, men should only participate in actual movements and suchlike and keep their zips shut at nonlegally violating actions

No. I have not been as severely oppressed I have faced ramifications of patriarchy which did fuck me up. And it has continued to make the lives of the women I love miserable

 

[Hadoblado]

OP is confusing.

Who did you have in mind when you made this thread?

 

[Cognisant]

Is it really?

In the OP I am asking people, who self identify as Feminists, to answer two questions:

1. What oppression do you face? Be specific, tell me how it affects you.
2. What negative perceptions are you oppressed by?
   2.a. Importantly, why are those negative perceptions invalid?

That doesn't seem difficult to understand, two questions, and I'm looking for specific answers, not baseless assertions, not snide insinuations, just straight answers.

To be charitable let me expand the scope of "oppression", there's hard systemic oppression (as a rule you are specifically excluded from an opportunity because of your gender) and soft systemic oppression would be something like you get overlooked for managerial positions because there's a perception that female managers are inherently lacking somehow.

In the patriarchy thread I made the point that being disadvantaged by being non-male is not the same as being oppressed by a patriarchy. But to be fair I'm clarifying here that oppression doesn't necessarily have to be a hard written rule that establishes a class difference between genders. For example a female engineer struggling to find work in a society where engineering is perceived to be a male occupation and they preferentially hire males despite this woman being qualified for the role. In that case there's no hard rule against women being engineers but there may as well be if she's so disadvantaged by her gender that she'll always be the less preferable option to any male equivalent.

I'm not saying inequality doesn't exist, that would be stupid, but I am challenging the people who complain about "the patriarchy" (terminology I deconstructed in the other thread) to explain how they are personally oppressed by men.

Granted actual patriarchy based systemic oppression does exist and if someone from Dubai responds with "I wasn't allowed to get an education or a job and my husband was chosen for me" etc, obviously that is legitimate oppression, but I don't think those are the feminists on this forum.

Basically what I'm driving at is that although women do face oppression in this world not all women are oppressed and it is disingenuous to act like they are somehow oppressed by association. Fundamentally it's about social justice and there is no such thing as social justice, you cannot make an individual pay for the crimes of another and call it justice, you cannot put the onus on me to justify someone else's bad behavior and you cannot claim to be a victim because you're part of a demographic of people of which some are victimized.

This is what I mean by a shell game, it can be very difficult to argue with feminists because they're very good at redefining the discussion and I'm trying to nail down that flexibility.

No. I have not been as severely oppressed I have faced ramifications of patriarchy which did fuck me up. And it has continued to make the lives of the women I love miserable

Stop weaseling, are you oppressed? If yes, how?
If not, say you're not and leave it at that.

 

[Hadoblado]

It's still confusing.

Feminist != oppressed

I'm just not sure who you were intending on talking to about this.

 

[Cognisant]

Of course its confusing, its confusing by design, I'm trying to make it simple.

Don't bitch about being oppressed by "the patriarchy" unless you are actually oppressed.

In other words don't put the onus on me to answer for your oppression without specifying what that oppression is, that's not fair, being a woman does not automatically make someone a victim of oppression, it is not a given assumption.

Obviously I know you're not a woman, I'm speaking to a hypothetical "feminist" and don't get anal about a feminist is, you know what I mean, I've explained myself at length several times now. Don't play dumb.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Not oppressed myself. Not even sure if I identify as being feminist, although I do appreciate and like some of the ideas that I know about.

When it comes to sex, or gender, as a teenager or young adult, I was likely to behave more like the male with men when it came to sex or dating or chosing partners. I can pursue, love and leave em just like you can. So, no, I don't feel victimized, its not even an issue.

The only time I ever felt oppressed was by some fairly controlling parents who loved to run the show in many ways, Dad was a Marine and Captain and semi controlling when it came to spoiling, allowing boys to be boys or vacations. So, I shared my kids with them which I pretended to be ok with, but had a little inner turmoil over the loss of control, but I guess most Mothers do.

Honestly, I let feminists be feminists, people should chose what they want to be, I do not want to control someone else's choices.
I do like watching sitcom called All in the Family and get a kick out of some of the controversies in it, never had a qualm with feminist movement, probably because I had a Mom who was not traditional in any way, so never felt oppressed. In fact, I grew up with very few rules at all. Life itself was my teacher and thats all I needed.

 

[Cognisant]

There's legitimate feminism which is really just a subset of civil rights, that I don't have a problem with, and not that I think it's relevant but that extends to LGBTQ+ as well and I don't know why I have to specify that, to me that's a given.

My problem is with the 3rd wave feminists who act like the world owes them something and their reasoning is always some form of social justice. They're not oppressed but they say they are and the blame their lives on "the patriarchy" because they think they're entitled to the restitution for other people's suffering.

Its such a difficult thing to tackle because for a long time they've been able to get away with it, to claim to be oppressed and not have anyone challenge their claim because how do you put the onus on them to prove it? It's been so easy for them to redefine the conversation, to put the onus back on the person asking to prove they aren't opposing equality or denying the existence of women's issues.

Honestly, I let feminists be feminists, people should chose what they want to be, I do not want to control someone else's choices.

Don't frame it like that, it's not just some harmless choice, these "feminists" who think they're entitled to the restitution for other people's suffering are parasites on the civil rights movement and quite often sexists seeking inequality in their own favor.

 

[Black Rose]

@cog

If you are trying to prove a point I think you are smart enough to realize those kinds of people do not exist on this forum.

People here are not going to attack your position by emotional appeal but analyze it with a logical approach.

They do not need to know exactly what your motives are just that they are unwarranted unless you make clear what conclusion you are trying to reach and why that conclusion is true. People here do not care what you think of them, they care if you have a sound argument.

 

[Hadoblado]

Who did you want to have this conversation with?

TMK all the feminists (third wave+ that you disagree with) with minority status left, so to me, it seems like you're talking exclusively to people who are no longer here.

 

[Cognisant]

You're just pestering me with inane questions.

 

[dr froyd]

dunno if this has been already covered, but one obviously has to make a distinction between the situation of women in western countries and women living in sub-sahran africa. The "feminism" applicable to these two separate groups is of two completely different types.

the whole issue with contemporary feminism in the west, in its post-New-Left form since the 1960s, is that it is no longer about the actual rights of women, but rather attributing socio-economical differences between genders to more abstract concepts like micro-aggressions, how we use language, etc – with the burden of evidence constantly relegated to everyone besides the people actually making these hypotheses. Meanwhile across the entire spectrum of socio-economical conditions, careful statistical analysis seems to show that women are be by far the privileged class in western societies. This is the case for education, jobs, violent-crime victimization, etc etc.

 

[Hadoblado]

Answer the fucking thing then. This is only the fourth time I'm asking.

Who did you have in mind when you initiated this conversation?

 

[Cognisant]

Prior conversations with BurnedOut led me down this path and sure enough when I called out feminists to justify their oppression they were the one who answered.

As if that was not plainly evident.

Are you trying to spin some narrative that this thread was a set trap or something?

For me this is a matter of precedent, if BurnedOut (or someone else) admits they're not oppressed then the matter is closed, I'd say all is forgiven but for me its not that personal in the first place. Rather I'm singularly focused on establishing the precedent that if someone claims to be oppressed they have to justify it, that its not a given assumption that "the patriarchy" exists.

By my reckoning I've succeeded. Ideally I'd like BurnedOut to say "no" without suffixing it with terms and conditions, that would conclude the matter completely, but I'm not going to pursue it further.

 

[BurnedOut]

Is this a joke? Aren't you a little too butthurt to lead some kind of a little campaign in this thread to gain a no?

 

[Cognisant]

Do you have to stake your pride on being wrong?

Do we need to continue this? You've already practically said it, the purpose of this wasn't to make a fool of you but your insistence on being evasive and now continuing the matter is doing exactly that.

Personally I hate being wrong so when I am wrong I try to rectify it and move on as quickly as possible, y'know rip-off the bandaid, not drag it out and make a whole drama of it.

Don't think I'm backing down, you've not put me on the defensive, I achieved what I set out to do and now I've got nothing at stake, as far as I'm concerned the conversation is over and this epilogue is just you trying to ad-hom me because your butt hurts.

 

[BurnedOut]

Don't think I'm backing down, you've not put me on the defensive, I achieved what I set out to do and now I've got nothing at stake, as far as I'm concerned the conversation is over and this epilogue is just you trying to ad-hom me because your butt hurts.

boo boo

 

[Hadoblado]

Look at their responses. Both of their initial posts are confused as to whether you're talking to them or what you're talking about. You then claim that's the response you were looking for.

I am assuming that your question is directed towards Karen pseudofeminists who have been polluting the discourse in the media by simply hating men for being men.

Are you talking about women or talking about feminists? I am confused.

You're a culture war warrior looking for a cause, but this territory was long since ceded as people moved on from this forum. You're so juiced up on rage-click media you don't even realise nobody exists here anymore that holds the position you want to fight against.

 

[Black Rose]

I achieved what I set out to do

All those Karen tears must taste so good.

 

[Cognisant]

They taste fantastic.

You're a culture war warrior looking for a cause, but this territory was long since ceded as people moved on from this forum. You're so juiced up on rage-click media you don't even realise nobody exists here anymore that holds the position you want to fight against.

I would believe you and feel bad if I hadn't just dragged BurnedOut kicking and screaming to admitting she's not oppressed... hmm not the best metaphor but you get my point.

Keep telling me the sky isn't blue, the cope filled hors d'oeuvres pair great with the bubbly.

 

[Black Rose]

Keep telling me the sky isn't blue

You think BurnedOut is a Karen?

Table scraps are so hard to come by these days.

 

[Hadoblado]

*buffering*

 

[BurnedOut]

I am a man Cog

 

[Cognisant]

I am a man Cog

You whine like a woman.

 

[Hadoblado]

View attachment 6877
They taste fantastic.

You're a culture war warrior looking for a cause, but this territory was long since ceded as people moved on from this forum. You're so juiced up on rage-click media you don't even realise nobody exists here anymore that holds the position you want to fight against.

I would believe you and feel bad if I hadn't just dragged BurnedOut kicking and screaming to admitting she's not oppressed... hmm not the best metaphor but you get my point.

Keep telling me the sky isn't blue, the cope filled hors d'oeuvres pair great with the bubbly.

I am a man Cog

"Pretending that women are crying in India is how I win the culture war, except in this case I'm making up that they're crying, and making up that they're women. Checkmate feminists! Your tears taste delicious!"

You whine like a woman.

Take the L ffs.

 

[BurnedOut]

You whine like a woman.

And you neigh like an ass. And then you were accusing me of ad hominem when you are the one acting autistic here

 

[Cognisant]

I'll take the L, clearly I misread the situation, very embarrassing.

What troubles me more than any mockery is that I don't gain anything, I didn't lose the debate to a superior argument, that would be a gainful experience. But no, I have learned nothing from this.

Continue mocking me if it pleases you.

 

[Hadoblado]

I won't mock you anymore, but I will hammer something home. This was actually a tiny mistake that anyone could have made, but only you could have snowballed it like this. You conduct yourself in such a way that makes it really difficult for you to back down.

BO and I asked you repeatedly for clarification because something was off. But you handwaved this and dismissed it as inane questioning. The way you engage lacks curiosity, you're prone to doubling down until someone grabs you by the neck and forces you to stare into the sun.

You're lucky in this case because it was an easily resolved truth, but what does the pattern of behaviour look like for truths that are more complicated and difficult to discern? You'll continue to fool yourself forever.

Once more you've hamstrung yourself with poor comprehension and brazen overconfidence but explicitly claim to have learned nothing. I think you need to take a step back because there's definitely a lesson for you here.

 

[washti]

Cog is the most monotopical person on forum.

 

[Cognisant]

BO and I asked you repeatedly for clarification because something was off. But you handwaved this and dismissed it as inane questioning. The way you engage lacks curiosity, you're prone to doubling down until someone grabs you by the neck and forces you to stare into the sun.

I clarified at length several times, your questioning was low effort and you blame me for not making an intuitive leap based on being asked questions.

Maybe clarify why you're asking questions and what it is you don't understand and then I'll understand what clarification you're seeking instead of wasting time writing entire paragraphs answering the wrong question.

You conduct yourself in such a way that makes it really difficult for you to back down.

And yet I have, despite ongoing mocking.

Once more you've hamstrung yourself with poor comprehension and brazen overconfidence but explicitly claim to have learned nothing. I think you need to take a step back because there's definitely a lesson for you here.

Which is what? Sit down, shut up, and don't risk embarrassing yourself?
I can be wrong, I can embarrass myself and I can brush it off.

Hell I can even appreciate the comedy of it.
You got to admit it's pretty funny

 

[dr froyd]

*michael jackson eating popcorn meme*

 

[Hadoblado]

I didn't need you to make an intuitive leap. I needed you to answer the question.

Look:

OP is confusing.

Who did you have in mind when you made this thread?

It's still confusing.

Feminist != oppressed

I'm just not sure who you were intending on talking to about this.

Who did you want to have this conversation with?

TMK all the feminists (third wave+ that you disagree with) with minority status left, so to me, it seems like you're talking exclusively to people who are no longer here.

Answer the fucking thing then. This is only the fourth time I'm asking.

Who did you have in mind when you initiated this conversation?

I was making the leaps for you. The second time I asked, I made the leap that you addressed your question to one group but demanded answers from another (feminist and oppressed). The third time I asked I was more explicit still, telling you that literally nobody here fits both categories.

How much more did I need to hold your hand?

 

[Hadoblado]

BO and I asked you repeatedly for clarification because something was off. But you handwaved this and dismissed it as inane questioning. The way you engage lacks curiosity, you're prone to doubling down until someone grabs you by the neck and forces you to stare into the sun.

I clarified at length several times, your questioning was low effort and you blame me for not making an intuitive leap based on being asked questions.

Maybe clarify why you're asking questions and what it is you don't understand and then I'll understand what clarification you're seeking instead of wasting time writing entire paragraphs answering the wrong question.

You conduct yourself in such a way that makes it really difficult for you to back down.

And yet I have, despite ongoing mocking.

Once more you've hamstrung yourself with poor comprehension and brazen overconfidence but explicitly claim to have learned nothing. I think you need to take a step back because there's definitely a lesson for you here.

Which is what? Sit down, shut up, and don't risk embarrassing yourself?
I can be wrong, I can embarrass myself and I can brush it off.

Hell I can even appreciate the comedy of it.
You got to admit it's pretty funny

I'm not asking you to not have opinions, I'm saying stop being a cunt. You set out in this thread to drink tears (see: being a cunt). You jerked yourself over how right you were (cunt). You then told BO he whinged like a woman (2x cunt multiplier).

If you tried to have conversations, instead of slamming people about how right you definitely are, you would have the maneuvering room to admit mistakes and learn. But because you insist on being a massive cunt about everything, everyone is extremely eager to hold you to account for your failings. It's all you try to do to anyone else, after all.

Conversation goes both ways, if you put half the effort into understanding other people as you do berating them for not sharing your beliefs you wouldn't have a problem.

 

[dr froyd]

lmao i remember when we were discussing feminism stuff back in the peak me-too era 2017. Incidentally that also quickly devolved into "YOU this" and "YOU that"

not that i don't see Hado's point, i should say. I think in this case, gentlemen, both sides could have done a better job at creating a more fruitful course for this topic

 

[Old Things]

It really depends on which country we are talking about here. Even in Iran women are now being liberated in historic ways.

In the US we have laws against discrimination because of sex. So a feminist
(woman) can say, "I'm being oppressed because I didn't get the job," but then they can just sue and make a lot of money.

Not to mention the "#metoo" movement where women could allege allegations of sexual misconduct without any evidence that could land a man in jail whether or not he was actually guilty which is the opposite of how things are supposed to work in the US (innocent until proven guilty).

Women mostly face sexual harassment here. Of course, when you dress like a slut you can expect that kind of thing, but all too often women don't understand that.

 

[Daddy]

I'm oppressed by society.

I'm forced to make money to live and if I want to opt out, there's no where I can go where things don't cost money. I've heard sometimes people will let someone live off their land or you could buy the land, but then you still have to pay taxes...so now you are still finding a way to make money. Unless you set up some kind of interest account that uses the interest to pay for property tax, but even then, your bank could go bankrupt or you get hacked or something. Everything is owned and we are all branded with our net worth. We are modern day slaves, but not to a slave-owner, rather to money and its abstract economic machine.

I blame the patriarchy! And the matriarchy! Throw them both in the toilet and flush them away away. Make the turds swirl away.

 

[Cognisant]

You could live on a sailboat boat in international waters as a non-citizen of any country, the problem is if anyone decides to take your stuff there's no authority to appeal to and if someone decides to claim that area of open ocean and their claim is backed up by a governing body, you either fight for it or move.

Money is just a consequence of that, because everything is owned you have to pay for everything even if what you're paying for is merely the right to retain ownership of the land you already own.

 

[Old Things]

I'm oppressed by society.

I'm forced to make money to live and if I want to opt out, there's no where I can go where things don't cost money. I've heard sometimes people will let someone live off their land or you could buy the land, but then you still have to pay taxes...so now you are still finding a way to make money. Unless you set up some kind of interest account that uses the interest to pay for property tax, but even then, your bank could go bankrupt or you get hacked or something. Everything is owned and we are all branded with our net worth. We are modern day slaves, but not to a slave-owner, rather to money and its abstract economic machine.

I blame the patriarchy! And the matriarchy! Throw them both in the toilet and flush them away away. Make the turds swirl away.

You can live in the jungle if you think that would be easier...

 

[scorpiomover]

Feminists I'm calling you out, are you actually oppressed or is it just a victim mentality?

Feminists fight for female rights, on the assumption that women are oppressed by men, but men are not oppressed by women. So your question only makes sense to ask to women feminists.

FWIO (from what I observed), nearly all the regular or even sometime posters are not women. So you're very unlikely to find anyone here you can ask your question to. You might as well go ask the wind why the US dollar is called the "greenback".

 

[scorpiomover]

Is not domestic violence towards non-hetero males enough for you to understand the severity of oppression? I don't know about the LGBTQ, but there is a universal empirical consensus on the fact that women in general experience higher levels of poverty, violence and economic discrimination.

Is that like the universal empirical consensus of the 1300s that the Sun went around the Earth?

Or is that like the universal empirical consensus that most people who believe in Heliocentrism, also believe in science and the scientific method, when they never turned to their teacher and said something like "Hang on, according to science, we are supposed to follow the evidence. But the evidence I see is that the Sun rotates around the Earth. Where's the evidence?"

Now, if you tell me that you know dozens of women who get beaten up by men every day, but you and everyone else in your country don't give a sh*t, but the times that you know of when a woman hit a man, the police came along, arrested her and put her in prison for 5 years for physical assault, THAT would be at least a tiny bit of evidence to support your claim.

I contend that most people today believe in things like these claims, because they watch internet videos and the media, and just accept what they are told because they are told that it comes from "science", without ever questioning if the science, i.e. actual evidence, actually supports the claims of the media.

On that basis, I also contend that you're just making an appeal to popularity, without any real solid evidence for your claims.

Neither @Cognisant nor you have put forward a valid argument.

 

[Daddy]

I'm oppressed by society.

I'm forced to make money to live and if I want to opt out, there's no where I can go where things don't cost money. I've heard sometimes people will let someone live off their land or you could buy the land, but then you still have to pay taxes...so now you are still finding a way to make money. Unless you set up some kind of interest account that uses the interest to pay for property tax, but even then, your bank could go bankrupt or you get hacked or something. Everything is owned and we are all branded with our net worth. We are modern day slaves, but not to a slave-owner, rather to money and its abstract economic machine.

I blame the patriarchy! And the matriarchy! Throw them both in the toilet and flush them away away. Make the turds swirl away.

You can live in the jungle if you think that would be easier...

But then how would I give back to my corporate overlords? They need me to be taken advantage of. How else are they going to support their extravagant lifestyles?

Actually, can I live in the jungle? Is that allowed for Americans? I'd prefer the mid-west though. I'm not a fan of creepy crawlies.