Female Oppression?

[Cognisant]

Firstly lets establish something.
This thread was not created to facilitate a debate over women’s rights.
...
Who am I kidding, we're going down that path if I like it or not.

I created this thread because I've been forming a story in my head and the best stories are those that people can relate to; evidently this story touches upon women's rights in modern society, including how current trends could lead to disturbing scenarios in the future (where this story is set). So I want your personal experiences with oppression, from little things like behavioural changes you make around a boyfriend to true inequities/injustices. Patricianly I'd like to know about how consumerism and society's expectations affect you, as honestly as possible please.

Do you think/feel society is trying to dumb you down?

Do you think modern consumerism is making people shallow?
(by which I not only implicate the general meaning of "shallow" but also it's meaning as the antonym of "deep")

Is the male of the species taking a disproportionate role in leading it?

 

[jhbowden]

I don't understand the terminology. What *is* a woman's right? In other words, how are women's rights different than the rights of men?

Note, I'm not asking how women are different than men. I'm asking why we ought to believe rights come in different flavors, rather than understanding them as a universal property of sentient beings. Usually "rights" indicates lazy talk -- people want to push feticide, for example, while not sounding like butchers.

I personally don't believe rights have any ultimate reality, but at least the concept should be clear before we can help out.

Do you think modern consumerism is making people shallow?

No, I think shallow people are pimping consumerism.

 

[Cognisant]

This thread was not created to facilitate a debate over women’s rights.
...
Who am I kidding, we're going down that path if I like it or not.

See jhbowden, your deconstruction conforms to my expectations.
And don't we all just hate conforming?

Please people I don't need your undoubtedly clever thoughts on the issue, I want your personal opinions & experiences, I want to know what your happy about and more importantly what doesn’t, I want that honest impassioned rant about how the world is doing you wrong.

I'm a writer asking you want you want me to write about.

 

[jhbowden]

I'm a writer asking you want you want me to write about.

I have an idea for a short story. Think of the Duggar family, and invert it!

Our heroine, a progressive defender of equality, women's rights-- and an eternal enemy of misogyny -- attempts to have as many late-term abortions as possible during life. There are many ways to make this complicated-- we can add all sorts of villains, like controlling, baby-loving boyfriends, along with fundies armed with Bibles, all of whom can die gruesome deaths in all sorts of ways. For The Common Good^tm, of course! And then we can add a secret lesbian relationship on the side... oh darn, I'm getting sidetracked!

 

[Grove]

This is going to be fun. I'll go get the sour patch kids.

 

[Da Blob]

BTW -I deleted a post because i thought this was a thread about females oppressing and not females being oppressed. Looking back, though, I wished i had saved the comment somewhere instead of just deleting it...lol

 

[geminizebra]

So this is a long, rambling post, but bear with me! Know that most of what I'm saying is generalizations, btw.

I think one of the greatest challenges for our generation is finally coming to terms with the changing gender roles in society. Like most change, it's been facilitated for economic reasons. Most families need two incomes to maintain their desired lifestyle and sometimes that means a woman is the primary breadwinner. Women are becoming more comfortable in their place in the workforce, but now I think a dilemma regarding relationships is becoming more apparent.

This is a generalization, but men have been the provider in a relationship since the beginning. Single and married men derive a lot of their self-worth on that earning power. Women do it too, but from the conversations I've had with guys, there's a lot more responsibility and expectations riding on their successes. It's their way of proving their worth and earning respect.

In the past, it's really always been the men taking risks. One of the problems I see is that women aren't taking risks. Even in my entrepreneurship class -- there are three women and twenty men. Women have become comfortable going to school, writing papers, using their intellect (a lot of times they'll still dumb themselves down so they won't be intimidating), but they don't put themselves out there. That's why there are more men in leadership positions -- that and the pressures society put on women to be doting mothers.

So this may be REALLY stretching it, but I think it's because girls, ever since we were young, have been taught to be cooperative and harmonious with each other. Speaking your mind is not tactful, and being opinionated makes you nerdy or obnoxious. Boys aren't necessarily taught to be more blunt, but they enjoy calling each other names, arguing, and outspokenness is tolerated more than from girls.

I think in the coming years, women are going to find a way to keep reasserting their femininity for their own personal reasons, but also as a way to placate men's egos and keep some wall between the genders. I think this will be good for men too because if women are penetrating more into what used to be a man's world, then men can venture further into more relationship roles.

Or we'll all eventually realize that we hate each other and separate the world with a very large white line :P

As for your other question about consumerism -- I'm a little biased. I've run into my fair share of extremely greedy and shallow people. I think our society perpetuates it's own problems. I don't see a problem with using money as a tool, harvesting the fruit of your labor, or even using it as a gauge of your success (like, I can finally afford to buy my own house or go on that trip to Europe I've always wanted to go on). Problems really start up, though, when people start thinking that $$$ and worth are the same thing. (I know this is kind of opposite of what I was saying before about men, but it's not. We've all been trained to put stock in what other people think -- even if their opinion doesn't matter. That's why money usually changes people).

This mentality is never going to go away, though. I think the redefining of gender roles in our society is going to make some people more aware that your worth in life can't be measured in square footage or big screen TVs and become better people for it. I'm afraid though that with gender roles changing, more people will dig themselves into a deeper hole and fill that unknown with more dependency on consumerism and appearances.

Anyway, that's my giant shpeel. I guess I got a little carried away

 

[warryer]

I just got done taking a sociology class last semester and this is exactly the kind of stuff we learned about. Pretty interesting subject. Kind of wish I brought my book back with me right about now.

Anyhow the concepts of gender are social constructs. Gender being the sets of behaviors attributed to males and females. As Adaire said the biggest influence in gender is family. I think however that the family's influence comes from what media tells us is the acceptable behaviors of males and females.

One of my favorite things to do while watching TV is to pay close attention to the commercials. What is it they are really saying? Who are they really targetting? Its really interesting because late night tv commercials are drastically different that prime time. Late night TV assumes its watchers are fat, in need of a date, lack self confidence, need a job, are lonely. You can also see the difference in day time TV, which targets the stay at home housewives or the elderly. You can do this with any form of media.

Do you think/feel society is trying to dumb you down?

Resounding yes! I am assuming you initially meant women? I think this really applies to everybody.

I can remember one day getting mad at my sister for dumbing herself down. Everytime she would answer the phone her tone would change and then I confronted her about it, I didn't get an answer. I wouldn't be too surprised if she still does so today.

I don't think I will ever understand this because I am not a female. I would assume that media or word of mouth tells you that you can't be visibly smarter than a man or else you will be deemed unfit for mating (really what its all about).

Once again I think the media is responsible for this. We are constantly barraged with what is "good" and "bad" in social terms. Look at the kind of people who are glorified: movie stars, sports heros and super models, I don't see a single Oppenheimer, Tesla or Einstein anywhere. Why!? Is it because those in control of mass media don't want competition?(Conflict Perspective) Is it because not everybody in society is allowed to be smart? Somebody has to cook the french fries (Functionalist Perspective).

I am somewhat Marxist in my view so I lean towards the former. I can see that for the sake of peace (versus war) people would assume the latter; for society to work as a well oiled machine. However I think society tends to stagnate in terms of who is in control.

Is the male of the species taking a disproportionate role in leading it?

Nobody can take power from somebody unless they voluntarily give it up. A bank robber with a gun gains power over the store owner because he decided his life is more important than the money he is about to lose. What would happen if he decided that his life was worth less than the money?

Once again power is something that is socially constructed. There are societies in which women are the warriors and the men stay at home to take care of the children.

Unfortunately society is a very powerful force to combat. It's almost unfair but it can be done. Society is nothing without people to support it.

 

[Döden]

Dumbing down:
Eh, not really. It doesn't necessarily seem like society is facilitating an active stance on intellectualism, but I don't think it's fighting it either. A stronger argument could be put to the popular media's anti-intellectualism, but I have never sensed any hostility for my personal pursuits of such things. I think someone else said this, but this applies to both sexes.

Materialism:
Simply put, I think it is a great contributor. Not a direct cause to shallowness. At the birth of it, though. What I mean is that technology allowed people to make more money, and with more money they could buy more. It became a major focus in life. So materialism is a byproduct of progress and a mentality of greed. We live in a society that is pretty strongly rooted in these ideas, so materialism becomes the major focus for a lot of people. It doesn't have to.

Men: It's been getting better. There're still some ways to go before the sexes are "equal" but the improvement is noteworthy. Might be kind of a
tough hurdle with such focus on "sex sells." As far as the US goes, I really don't think the prudity helps, either.

 

[Toad]

Woman is the nigger of the world.

 

[Döden]

That's like saying oregano is the East Indian saffron of the world.

I wonder where that puts Irish women, then X-D