Feeling

[flow]

Lately, I've been thinking about my family's personalities and their various similarities and such. I realized that most people on my dad's side (the only side I really communicate with) have high thinking, low feeling tendencies. That made me start thinking about feeling, how to obtain it, and why some people have high feeling/low thinking brains. Feeling is such an interesting topic, I'm surprised I didn't see any posts on it already! I've realized now that the only thing I can comfortably feel is music. Sort a strange thought, and I do like cuddling sometimes, but often I have to admit that touch makes me uncomfortable. So, where can I learn how to feel?

 

[Calamedes]

That's actually something that I'm trying to figure out through dance. My theory is that I will eventually find a dance partner who I can trust enough to touch me beyond the typical frame stature. If you watch two pairs of professionals dance together and performing the same routine, the ones who outright trust each other (usually dating or married, interestingly) will perform much better every time. That's what I'm looking for to prove my theory (which I'd rather experience than watch to prove).

 

[Auburn]

[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica]I am an INTP with very developed Feeling... It is actually such a beautiful thing to have... I remember the days when I was emotionless - literally. I was never even affected by the deaths of family members, I just sat there in silence when they told me they were gone... I never cried for them... It wasn't till I met a certain someone that things began to change in me...

"Nevertheless, in an intimate relationship, the extraverted nature of the feeling judgement leads to a beneficial openness and empathic directness in responding to the partner's needs, providing the healthy development of the Fe function is encouraged. Indeed, for many INTPs, an intimate relationship is the only place where the Fe shadow can really develop fruitfully." - Paul James

[/FONT]

 

[grey matters]

I am capable of feeling but don't often express it. Things changed a lot for me when I moved to New Orleans. In Metaire (a town adjacent to New Orleans) the Mardi Gras parades are more family orientated so I brought my kids to almost every parade they had. I learned from this experience that when you find yourself dancing like a chicken for a cheesy 10 cent string of beads (and you're not drunk) you learn to not take yourself too seriously. Not taking oneself too seriously makes it somewhat easier to express emotions. I guess you can say I learned inhibition without the aid of alchol and/or brain damage.

 

[Waterstiller]

I ordered a book on developing the 8 functions that Decaf suggested to someone. I've read through it, but haven't done many of the activities yet. I've quoted/paraphrased some bits of it below.

In regards to developing Fi, it says:

• The most basic mental skill for the Conscience(Fi) part of each of us is the use of our emotions to identify what is important to us.
  • Examine what you passionately care about -- what you would do just about anything to defend.
  • List five things that other people have told you are very important but you don't see the value of.
  • When someone tells you that you acted with integrity, enjoy the praise.
  • Pay attention to your emotions. Stay with them. Name the emotions. See if a value is involved.
• With more development, the Conscience starts to discriminate between what's truly important and what isn't so important.
  • Get into a conversation with someone whom you trust. Attempt to reach a point where both of you are sharing the most important events of your life. Look for what values are involved
  • Make a list of values you hold. Which of these values would you hold even if the people close to you(family, friends, admired people) did not share them?
• The Conscience, once it makes a person aware of hir own most deeply held values, adds to that awareness the truly universal values that "should" be held deeply by every individual.
  • Carefully listen as someone expresses hir values. Tell the person your own understanding of both sets of values.
  • Identify the beliefs you have that every human being should hold.
  • Identify an inner ideal that you hold that you would like the outer world to embrace.
  • Make a list of values you hear other people express. Indicate which ones you believe in.
• The conscience learns to maintain personal integrity by consistently living in accordance with hir deeply held values.
  • Consider what it means to you to be harmonious with yourself (centered within).
  • The next time you are asked what you want to do, say "I want to x."
  • When someone around your violates your values, watch to see how you maintain your integrity.
• When developed it uses the awareness of deeply held values to guide that decision making toward ethical decisions.
  • Each time you make a decision, check if it is ethical and consistent with your values.
• The conscience values all living things and will come to allow each living thing to maintain its own integrity. At this advanced stage of development, the conscience usually supports other people as they attempt to maintain their own integrity.
  • The next time you ask someone to do something, don't pressure them. You may be violating a personal value.
• At high levels of discrimination, the conscience has the bewitching ability to accurately assess other people's emotional states by reading hir own internal reactions.
  • When you are with a friend and start to feel really sad, worried,elated, excited, angry or any other strong emotion that you cannot explain, ask your friend what emotion they are experiencing. You may be empathizing quite well.
  • Find a list of words describing emotional states. Using that list, label your own emotions. Practice identifying both your and others' emotional states.
• Judge ideas, attitudes, and behaviors against values.
  • Consider whether anyone you know has proposed an idea that violates one of your deeply held values. What is your judgment of the idea? What is your judgment of the person?
• The conscience may attempt to get other people to operate according to the universal values he experiences internally as the truth. In this active form, the conscience can become a crusader for what is right.
  • Challenge a corporate decision that violates your values.
  • Challenge a friend's actions that violate your values.

There were a lot of typos for such a short book. Some of the activities could help, I suppose. They really didn't cover how to express feelings or how to see past Ti. What I'm curious of is an explanation of how people come up with values without logic and introverted thinking getting in the way? :shrug:

 

[Auburn]

They really didn't cover how to express feelings or how to see past Ti. What I'm curious of is an explanation of how people come up with values without logic and introverted thinking getting in the way?

This is by far the greatest obstacle I faced. As I began to develop Fe, my Ti was suspicious of it to a paranoid extreme. Ti dominated Fe. If ever an emotion began to arise, it would be submersed by the Ti.

Only after I realized that the two must be in sync did the Fe begin to develop - and quite quickly. The secret was - to allow Fe to come out only when it agreed with Ti - and encourage it to come out. It took me a lot of conscious effort, self analysis, and a friend's help to accomplish.

I allowed my anger to flourish whenever I saw something I logically disagreed with...

I allowed myself to be silly, and have fun when it was not necessary to be proper...

I learned never to hold back my tears...

I learned to hug a friend in need although I felt nothing for her...

 

[Calamedes]

lol same typo? ( "hir" at the end :P)

That's an interesting observation, Auburn. I never thought about it that way. *begins reflecting and creating scenarios...*

 

[Auburn]

lol same typo? ( "hir" at the end :P)

That's an interesting observation, Auburn. I never thought about it that way. *begins reflecting and creating scenarios...*

* typo fixed *

 

[severus]

Hm, don't some people use "hir" as a combination of his and her? I thought I read that in another thread here.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I learned to hug a friend in need although I felt nothing for her...

One of the advantages of really long-term relationships (in my case, with my wife) is that I've become far more adept than I once was at distinguishing what I want from what she needs.

So, for example, there are times when I do what she needs me to do (emotionally speaking) rather than what I'd prefer to do simply because it's kinder, more humane, and just plain nicer to do what she needs rather than what I'd prefer.

Over time, developing the ability to simply recognize when others have needs that I am capable of fulfilling, even if it isn't in my interest or on my spectrum of desires, has helped me develop my feeling function.

I spent a long time almost completely disconnected from my feelings. Now that I'm no longer there, I recognize the lack. I would imagine it would be somewhat like going from being color blind to being able to see color. When you don't know what you've been missing, it's easy to assume it isn't all that important. Once you get it though, it's very much worth having.

Dave

 

[Calamedes]

You pose an interesting metaphor, dave. I'm looking forward to the day that I do learn to see in color. On the other hand, it takes a lot of work from what I can tell. There's a thread about developing our Fe somewhere around here...

 

[Agent Intellect]

i think the 3 main "feelings" that i experience are anger, self loathing, and loyalty. i can be quick to anger if my principles are crossed or if i'm being forced or coerced into doing things i disagree with on a logical level. i don't much like myself. and i have a few people in my life that i "feel" a sense of loyalty towards, which to me is sort of a strange feeling to think that i would die or kill for someone without thinking twice about it, that i'd lie for them in the court of law, that i'd sacrifice myself because i favor their friendship more then my own well being. its such an illogical thing to me. i don't much understand feelings.

someone said that they didn't cry when loved ones die, and i certainly relate to that. a cousin of mine died about five years ago, she and I were pretty close, she was hit by a drunk driver, in a coma for almost a year, and died of a clot going to her brain during surgery. emptiness was about the only thing i could describe as a "feeling" i had during the open casket funeral. i found it more curious then i did sad. i still think about her a lot, but its more the though of how strange a thought it is that someone i knew, someone that had a personality can just cease existing...

i've probably only cried a handful of times in my life. even my parents told me that i was always good about not crying, even as a baby. even when i became terribly ill, i pretty much just took it all in stride and never really complained.

part of me wishes i could be more in touch with my emotions, but then that Ti kicks in and makes me think "why? emotions are so illogical and make people do such foolish bullshit, why would anyone even want them?"

 

[severus]

I didn't cry when my dad died. I cried when Dumbledore died. Bit messed up, yeah?
Though, truly, I was probably closer to Dumbledore.

 

[ElectricWizard]

Hm, don't some people use "hir" as a combination of his and her? I thought I read that in another thread here.

I think that was in the thread about whether we should have an option to show our genders or whatever.
It doesn't sound as good as either 'him' or 'her', though.

 

[Auburn]

I didn't cry when my dad died. I cried when Dumbledore died. Bit messed up, yeah?
Though, truly, I was probably closer to Dumbledore.

same here...

I never shed a tear for my father's death... yet I bawled my eyes out when my pokemon game with around 300 hours of game-play was erased (I was like 11)

It goes to show how much more INTPs can value things over people...

 

[Waterstiller]

part of me wishes i could be more in touch with my emotions, but then that Ti kicks in and makes me think "why? emotions are so illogical and make people do such foolish bullshit, why would anyone even want them?"

To feel human? I generally feel like a robot when I'm not feeling things. Detachment is great and all, but every now and then I like to be overwhelmed and cry. And it's not just for sad things, often it's for beautiful things. Pieces of music, books, theories that cut to the heart of me and make me feel out of control.

What's a rollercoaster without ups and downs anyways?



(neutral pronouns are teh future!!)

 

[ElectricWizard]

(neutral pronouns are teh future!!)

It's too gimmicky for my taste. Also, they don't sound as good.

 

[Waterstiller]

(it's still teh future)
​

 

[Jennywocky]

I didn't cry when my dad died. I cried when Dumbledore died. Bit messed up, yeah? Though, truly, I was probably closer to Dumbledore.

i remember my grandfather dying and my dog dying within a year of each other when i was in high school... and I cried when my dog died.

I just didn't see my grandfather very often.

(neutral pronouns are teh future!!)

It's too gimmicky for my taste. Also, they don't sound as good.

(it's still teh future)

Meh, I'll change tomorrow [always tomorrow] then.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

My avatar was based upon this wallpaper; I have a strong mental connection to robots and their related issues. One of my life long aspirations it to achieve immortality through the use or robotics; so when I saw this image my feeling function was completely uninhibited by my thought function. It made me cry for the first time in several years, in public as luck would have it.
http://bgwalls.eu/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=Collections/Fantasy+Girls/wallpaper_marc_brunet_01.jpg

And I cried when I completed "Zelda Ocarina of Time"; the combination of my age at the time (perfectly suited for the game) and the realisation that link would be forever trapped in a time loop, choosing to maintain it because he loved Zelda. It was just so beautiful, romantic and tragically sad. Of course nobody else understood why it was so upsetting for me.

I want to make games like that, it is the best story conclusion I've ever seen.

 

[flow]

Ocarina of Time is the greatest video game ever made! I have always said that, and I doubt it ever gets topped. I didn't cry when I beat that game, but I definitely was left in awe..

 

[Waterstiller]

My avatar was based upon this wallpaper; I have a strong mental connection to robots and their related issues. One of my life long aspirations it to achieve immortality through the use or robotics; so when I saw this image my feeling function was completely uninhibited by my thought function. It made me cry for the first time in several years, in public as luck would have it.
http://bgwalls.eu/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=Collections%2FFantasy+Girls%2Fwallpaper_marc_brunet_01.jpg

For the first time in years, though, did you not feel like a robot? That wallpaper is amazing, by the way.

My avatar, too, is based on something I cried over. Though the page I got my avatar from made me stop crying long enough to smile and even laugh a little. I think it's because I was noticed on such a deep level by the artist. All at once I just felt human in so many ways. I even felt anger like I've never felt before at a couple panels a few pages prior - that made me shake and get a little dizzy.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

I can't seem to access that link; I visited the site and tried to follow the directory to it, but couldn't. Although I have wondered about your avatar, it's ever more intriguing now that the answers are just beyond my reach.

That guy does many great wallpapers. I related to the robot on an intellectual level; could I not one day be a broken thing, being grieved by my life-like creations? I'm fairly immune to emotion provoking media, until I see something that makes me stop to think.

Ryohei hase is another artist who makes thought provoking art
http://ryohei.cgsociety.org/gallery/484055/

Andre kutscherauer is also good
http://www.3dvalley.com/gallery/v/Andre-Kutscherauer/Selfillumination_1280_1024.jpg.html

Can you just copy the address bar into your next post? Thanks,

 

[Waterstiller]

I like those as well. Though, I have a nagging feeling that my interpretations are way off.



http://www.pinkkryptonite.com/images/pinkkryptonite/wanda3.jpg

 

[Calamedes]

This is an interesting conversation on the psychological level (sorry guys :P). I admit, I don't have any emotional attachment to my avatar; I just found it funny... you know: what happens when you cross Batman with a rubber Ducky? Even thinking about, I'm laughing for no reason.

Cog, what's the main idea that separates us from robots? It's the fact that we're created directly through a scientific miracle while they're created through resources from the earth. This, in itself, has direct connotations that surpass general understanding. To apply MBTI, humans are wholly capable of possessing varying strengths of all 8 aspects, also at random (as far as I know), while robots can only possess a limited number of them with F being the most difficult to replicate.

Not only that, the idea of being broken is strange to us as well. When we're broken, we fix ourselves naturally- robots require direct assistance from man. What's the point of immortality if you can't fix yourself? Species have survived the last 6ish billion years because we're able to adapt to change, because we can mutate, evolve, and heal. Robots (at least at this point) can do none of those on their own.

This is why you're human, not robot. Why not cherish that fact?

Honestly, I wish you the best in your pursuit of immortality through robots, but here are some kinks you may want to consider. Also, this is what I think of whenever I do feel like a walking encyclopedia (read: often)... I realize that I am among the dominant race on this planet and I take pride in that fact. books don't rule the world, nor do computers- humanity does. This makes me feel human more than anything else... laughter helps too :P