Feeling connected - a real INTP?

[Huxley]

Shit, time really does fly. I haven't really been here a lot. And frankly I don't want to waste your time, so I wont stay around either. I just have somethings to get of my chest.

Right now, this very moment, I have a very difficult feeling in my stomach. I'm writing this because, even though I usually feel pretty self-comforting, I can't seem to stop wanting to part from the itch I have. Usually, I cringe when people really on others, you know. Perhaps that's because I was born like this, or because my father never was around. I don't know. But often, I found myself thinking: "Come on, man! You CAN handle this, you can fight it!" and gradually understanding that, even though it didn't work most of the time, it would be with me for the greater period of my life, and thus was needed.

Relying on groups of people seemed like an animalistic need to me -- nothing I, myself, wanted to be a part of -- and I found it increasingly hard to do it, without feeling myself drifting OBE. Even this act of self defiance, writing to you guys, on this message board, makes me feel uneasy. Why am I trying to comfort myself with the use of others? What could they do? And you know what? I feel a strange satisfaction writing this. Like scratching that itch. I am compelled to go against my own pre-existing axioms. To say something I've never dared to say before. That I actually find comfort in other people. Shit. Suddenly, the introverted me, understand that, perhaps it is okay to accept ones nature. To find comfort in groups. Even though I don't want that. I feel that I must.

So, I have a question for you, INTP, and a request. Am I like you? And please, discuss with me.

 

[nanook]

actually introversion is a synonym for subjectivity, meaning for accepting one's nature! the extreme need to stay away from either others or our own sensitive core, is not a part of our introversion, it's a part of our extroversion, it's a re-action within extroverted logic, against extroverted pathology in the place we grow up, in the case of the former (isolation from others) and a conditioned over-adaption (for survival) to the extroverted principle (which is a synonym of objectivity) in the case of the latter - loss of the subjective self.

as souls, we live for the simple event of meeting other souls, just looking eye to eye, it's the subtlest mirror principle in our soul, which fulfills us, because our self is constructed like this: for every self-representation (or aspect thereof) within our self-system (brain) there is an object-representation (or correlating aspect thereof) and the self is somewhat holographic, meaning being fulfilled implies synchronous arousal in self-representation and other-representations.

it takes a while, for introversion to grow that deep into the subject(ivity)

we introverts tend to be categorical, principled. we strive for full coherency. we may have a tendence, to only accept our need of being "connected", once we understand how this principle is such a categorial aspect of our nature, and not just one thing attached to the side of us, like a weird tail "oh yeah, well that's just my underdeveloped extroversion". when connectedness or co-arising of inside and outside are seen as this integral aspect of everything that is human, then the intravert is ready to pop, to break his habit of being passive as in "more data/coherency is needed, before action can be justified"

 

[Huxley]

actually introversion is a synonym for subjectivity, meaning for accepting one's nature! the extreme need to stay away from either others or our own sensitive core, is not a part of our introversion, it's a part of our extroversion, it's a re-action within extroverted logic, against extroverted pathology in the place we grow up, in the case of the former (isolation from others) and a conditioned over-adaption (for survival) to the extroverted principle (which is a synonym of objectivity) in the case of the latter - loss of the subjective self.

as souls, we live for the simple event of meeting other souls, just looking eye to eye, it's the subtlest mirror principle in our soul, which fulfills us, because our self is constructed like this: for every self-representation (or aspect thereof) within our self-system (brain) there is an object-representation (or correlating aspect thereof) and the self is somewhat holographic, meaning being fulfilled implies synchronous arousal in self-representation and other-representations.

it takes a while, for introversion to grow that deep into the subject(ivity)

Thank you for your answer, but I'll be honest with you, one shouldn't try so hard as I just did, to understand something as simple as that. Why all the big words? Half of it doesn't even make sense.

Like this part:

"[...] it's a part of our extroversion, it's a re-action within extroverted logic, against extroverted pathology in the place we grow up, in the case of the former (isolation from others) and a conditioned over-adaption (for survival)"

You could've just said. Actually, I don't even know what you just said.

 

[nanook]

the introverted principle just wants to express his subjectivity, without wanting that to have another effect, beyond causing empathic resonance in the other person. he shares perspectives for their own sake. wants to grow his subject, wants to share to growth with others.

the extroverted principle wants to manage mutual life: inter-ACTION, and everything said is expected to be part of action, meaning the extraverted type asks: and where do you want to go with your subjective expression? what do you want us to do about that?

and so the introverted type learns, that he can not be natural around people who are radically extroverted, who overdo their own principle without having any understanding or appreciation of subjectivity or growth of subjetivity. (the much feared narcissistic estj father). now, either the introvert retreats, or he tries to convert all of his introversion into fake extroversion. he asks himself: what should i DO with my subjectivity, what does it WANT and this corrupts and flattens out the introversion. the result is a sort of autism. its that fanboy of rationality, objective science, manipulating the world, making career, who unconsciously pretends that he is estj himself and believes that this is honestly what nature wants him to be, as intp.

year i am totally trying to annoy you will all that text

 

[Huxley]

over adaption to extroversion/objectivity goes like this:

the introverted principle just wants to express his subjetivity, without wanting that to have another effect, beyond causing empathic resonance in the other person.

the extroverted principle wants to manage mutual life: inter-ACTION, and everything said is expected to be part of action, meaning the extraverted type asks: and where do you want to go with your subjective expression? what do you want us to do about that?

and so the introverted type learns, that he can not be natural around people who are radically extroverted, who overdo their own principle without having any understanding of subjetivity. (the much feared narcicist estj father). either he retreats, or he tries to convert all of his introversion into fake extroversion. he asks himself: what should i DO with my subjectivity, what does it WANT and this corrupts and flattenes out the introversion. the result is a sort of autism. its that fanboy of rationality, objective science, who pretends to be estj himself and believes that this is honestly what nature wants him to be, as intp.

year i am totally trying to annoy you will all that text

I do understand what you are saying, but I am finding it rather hard to read. It's like I'm talking to something instead of someone.

Anyhow, I don't think you understood my issue. I'm not saying that the extraverted side or whatever is altering my perception of myself. I'm saying that I believe that I need to vent my feelings to a group of people, and I'm asking why. It's a simple question, with, albeit, a difficult answer. But smart people explain things simple. Einstein said it himself.

 

[nanook]

subjectivity does not reduce it's internal experience! reduction to subjectivity is extroversion, its what the introverted type, who mastered his territory, CAN do, when he WANTS to impress extraverts. (introversion is sometimes said to reduce the external object - we are not talking about that right now, we are discussing the human subject)

can you not make the connection to your question? you want to vent your feelings into a group, because you are hardwired to come to life through resonance. simple enough? yet, it can't be understood without the explanation i gave before, just like relativity theory is not understood without knowing all the friggin math.

i'm sorry if i am not emotional enough, to cover your need for emotional resonance. i am a robot (introverted model). however i am in resonance with your nature, i show it to you, by describing to you my own nature, as i see it. this is how intraverts converse: through resonating monologues, not through quoting sentence by sentence, which is another one of those over adaptations to extroverted dialogue culture that kills our introverted genius, our striving for coherency.

 

[Huxley]

subjectivity does not reduce it's internal experience! reduction to subjectivity is extroversion, its what the introverted type, who mastered his territory, CAN do, when he WANTS to impress extraverts. (introversion is sometimes said to reduce the external object - we are not talking about that right now, we are discussing the human subject)

can you not make the connection to your question? you want to vent your feelings into a group, because you are hardwired to come to life through resonance. simple enough? yet, it can't be understood without the explanation i gave before, just like relativity theory is not understood without knowing all the friggin math.

i'm sorry if i am not emotional enough, to cover your need for emotional resonance. i am a robot (introverted model). however i am in resonance with your nature, i show it to you, by describing to you my own nature, as i see it. this is how intraverts converse: through resonating monologues, not through quoting sentence by sentence, which is another one of those over adaptations to extroverted dialogue culture that kills our introverted genius, our striving for coherency.

Bullshit.


You're not a model for anything. The sum of your life is what models you, not this crap. I', intelligent enough to fully realize what's going on here, and it's easier for me to write it, then it is for you to say it. You are trying to prove something. What, I do not know. But like any other forum, each has it's own niche. Here, I presume, it's to be as ideal as possible. The ideal being the model INTP. But I thought INTP:s didn't follow models, only reason.

Shit man, I'm lost again.

 

[Absurdity]

Sometimes I will find myself relying on other people in a sense. It can be helpful to bounce ideas off of other people, even ones who you wouldn't think would have any idea what you are talking about. Sometimes they realize something you didn't. Humans never cease to surprise me.

Other times I will just need to get some things out of my head, and writing doesn't help. When I look for someone to vent to I am not seeking someone who will help me with my problem, just listen to it.

 

[Huxley]

Sometimes I will find myself relying on other people in a sense. It can be helpful to bounce ideas off of other people, even ones who you wouldn't think would have any idea what you are talking about. Sometimes they realize something you didn't. Humans never cease to surprise me.

Other times I will just need to get some things out of my head, and writing doesn't help. When I look for someone to vent to I am not seeking someone who will help me with my problem, just listen to it.

But when the problem is as ill-defined as mine, it's quite hard. I, like most people here I believe, have felt lonely for the most of our lives. Why? It's not like I don't have people? I'm intelligent enough to adapt, to learn the social functions others see as absolute. I can act like an extrovert, but that's because I know such terms are bullshit labels for simple minded people. I don't NEED to be told who I am, I know that. How can I vent, when the very thing I need venting, is impossible to vent to others. It's fucking crazy!

 

[Absurdity]

People like us are all alone, even when we aren't.

 

[Huxley]

People like us are all alone, even when we aren't.

But there must be a cure? There must be something I can do? I've had my share of anxiety attacks and depression. I've been afraid of shit to a point of absurdity. And now, when the medication keeps it all away, I'm left with blow hard wanna be introverts like the guy above us? I want to talk to somebody like you, but outside of this public forum.

 

[nanook]

bullshit. everyone is alone all the time, underneath. that's why we meet, stupid.
the self-representation is a fictional entity in your skull, in meeting it's weight is balanced against what it's meeting with [the representation of "other"], your skull becomes the meeting. the meeting is singular, but the meeting is not alone. it's better to become the experience of a meeting, than to be the experience of an isolated self-representation, because as the meeting you are more of your true self, more of your skull. higher metabolism, many pleasure hormones. welcome to reality. read the fucking manual of your brain.

 

[Huxley]

bullshit. everyone is alone all the time, underneath. that's why we meet, stupid.
the self-representation is a fictional entity in your skull, in meeting it's weight is balanced against what it's meeting with [the representation of "other"], your skull becomes the meeting. the meeting is singular, but the meeting is not alone. it's better to become the experience of a meeting, than to be the experience of an isolated self-representation, because as the meeting you are more of your true self, more of your skull. higher metabolism, many pleasure hormones.

Geese, you're stuck up. We aren't here because we are lonely. We're lonely because that what we are. How the fuck would lonely people be lonely, if they even COULD form a community to talk with. I bet NOBODY feels any less lonelier after they've been here before. Look, you obviously has some problem, because I don't even believe you understand what you're saying. A fictional entity in my skull? A representation a vague other, with frikkin quotation marks? Are you trying to be mysteries? This is silly.

higher metabolism, many pleasure hormones

wat

 

[Absurdity]

But there must be a cure? There must be something I can do? I've had my share of anxiety attacks and depression. I've been afraid of shit to a point of absurdity. And now, when the medication keeps it all away, I'm left with blow hard wanna be introverts like the guy above us? I want to talk to somebody like you, but outside of this public forum.

I can probably count on one hand the people I have met in my life that seem to genuinely understand me and go through a lot of the same things that I do. If you have people like that in your life, hang on to them regardless of geography or busy schedules. It is worth it.

I'm going into my fourth year of college and have only made a handful of new friends, none of which are very similar to me as far as personality. This is even after transferring to a new school, where there were supposed to be more "people like me." Each new douchebag I meet makes me feel less excited about going out to meet more people. Have to keep up hope though. Statistically, I'll run into one of them sooner or later.

I'm not sure how much I can help with everything you seem to be going through, but you can PM me if you want.

 

[nanook]

we have to fucking learn to use the organ of communion, that is in (y)our head, albeit slightly crippled. to do that, we have to acknowledge it's existence in the first place. so stop being so fucking sorry for your self: you do not lack the organ for communion, but your little personality hasn't learned using it, expressing it, because your personality is the sum of your experience, but your self-system, your fucking brain, is not (limited to) your personality. your personality is just a joke, floating around inside of it. become the human being that you are, instead of remaining stuck in your personality, or else suffer eternally.

intp can deal with simple abstract concepts, visualizing how a human mind works.
you may need to find some sensors to have a beer with.

 

[Huxley]

I can probably count on one hand the people I have met in my life that seem to genuinely understand me and go through a lot of the same things that I do. If you have people like that in your life, hang on to them regardless of geography or busy schedules. It is worth it.

I'm going into my fourth year of college and have only made a handful of new friends, none of which are very similar to me as far as personality. This is even after transferring to a new school, where there were supposed to be more "people like me." Each new douchebag I meet makes me feel less excited about going out to meet more people. Have to keep up hope though. Statistically, I'll run into one of them sooner or later.

I'm not sure how much I can help with everything you seem to be going through, but you can PM me if you want.

That feeling of losing hope on new people, is somewhat what I feel now. I think it's a myth about not being able to understand emotions as an introvert. I'm constantly in the point of view of myself. I never ever leave. Others, as I've understood it, see the world more as a collective when in group. They do understand emotions better, but only because the only emotions they feel are these lightly surfaced things. I believe we experience deeper emotions. And I can tell them apart. Thus I am aware of them.

 

[Absurdity]

That feeling of losing hope on new people, is somewhat what I feel now. I think it's a myth about not being able to understand emotions as an introvert. I'm constantly in the point of view of myself. I never ever leave. Others, as I've understood it, see the world more as a collective when in group. They do understand emotions better, but only because the only emotions they feel are these lightly surfaced things. I believe we experience deeper emotions. And I can tell them apart. Thus I am aware of them.

I think the whole "not understanding emotions" thing stems from people getting a T as a test result and using it as an excuse to be socially obtuse. We might try and suppress them but they will burst forth nonetheless. Best to find a way to reflect and deal with them in whatever way works for you.

The idea of seeing the world from a collective seems alien to me, but I suppose it is plausible. I have some friends who are only happy when the group is happy. I have always seen that as a weakness, but then again they are the ones going out and partying all the time, while I spend a lot of my nights brooding in the dark.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

@Huxley, why the focus on groups? What about connecting with individuals?

 

[Huxley]

I think the whole "not understanding emotions" thing stems from people getting a T as a test result and using it as an excuse to be socially obtuse. We might try and suppress them but they will burst forth nonetheless. Best to find a way to reflect and deal with them in whatever way works for you.

The idea of seeing the world from a collective seems alien to me, but I suppose it is plausible. I have some friends who are only happy when the group is happy. I have always seen that as a weakness, but then again they are the ones going out and partying all the time, while I spend a lot of my nights brooding in the dark.

I think you're correct. But regarding the collective thing, I've had some experience. If you care to read a bit. During my depression, I began feeling my symptoms psychosomatically. That is, that I felt it in my body, instead of in my head. Things literally became dark around the edges of my eyes, for example. My field of view became narrower. And so forth. But the most interesting thing was the change of inner perspective. The only thing I can relate it to, is when you're speaking in front of class or something like that. The feeling you have when you talk, is as if you've stepped into your body. You can feel every word, every little thing on yourself. Heart pounding and everything. It's very clear, at least for me. When I step outside, I feel myself grow out again, to experience myself as I used to do. During the depression though, I felt myself constantly like that group thing. Everything I did, I was really aware of. This also tied into the narrow field of view thing. It was strange indeed.

Now I believe that all people experience their world through different stages of perception. Some will see it constantly as I did during the depression, and some will have it more open. This feeling have left me to believe that extroverted people, literally are EXTROverted. That is, that they literally feel themselves closer to the outside, then the inside. Thus creating simpler bounds with other people.

@Huxley, why the focus on groups? What about connecting with individuals?

I've tried that. But as @Absurdity said, you lose hope on new people. Old people become dry and boring. New aren't worth it.

 

[nanook]

people get boring, because your relationship with them is a total fake.

most people meet through fake relationships, because they choose to be morons, instead of learning conceptually how being human really works and then adapting via that understanding.

as i have told you, and i can see, i have to repeat, because you overlooked it, introverted types are not only different, as you argue yourself, but they have their own principle of holographic resonance, they have their own TYPE of communion. that is what you have to create, with someone who has a fucking brain to play along. you don't do that with random schmucks who offer you to have a beer with you! fuck extraverts. learn to be your self (not your personality, your introverted principle of resonance), then you can't be depressed. depression is suppression of self-awareness.

i have been practically autistic (schizoid, actually) for the first 20 years of my life, while i intended to adapt to the extroverted world (and failed absolutely, but had no other plan). then i learned to understand what introversion is and that is in deed a powerful tool, to be social, in it's own style. now i am constantly in fulfilling unconditional authentic relationships with other introverts, no superficial games are played here. it fucking works.

 

[Huxley]

people get boring, because your relationship with them is a total fake.

most people meet through fake relationships, because they choose to be morons, instead of learning conceptually how being human really works and then adapting via that understanding.

as i have told you, and i can see, i have to repeat, because you overlooked it, introverted types are not only different, as you argue yourself, but they have their own principle of holographic resonance, they have their own TYPE of communion. that is what you have to create, with someone who has a fucking brain to play along. you don't do that with random schmucks who offer you to have a beer with you! fuck extraverts. learn to be your self (not your personality, your introverted principle of resonance), then you can't be depressed. depression is suppression of self-awareness.

i have been practically autistic (schizoid, actually) for the first 20 years of my life, when i tried to adapt to the extroverted world. then i learned to understand what introversion is and that is in deed a powerful tool, to be social, in it's own style. now i am constantly in fulfilling unconditional authentic relationships with other introverts, no superficial games are played here. it fucking works.

I see how those autentic relationships work. You all try to outgrow each other?

 

[nanook]

no

tis sick, to assume that this has to do with hierarchy or power or a feeling of self-worth/status or whatever (extroverted bullshit principle) "outgrowing" implies to you, when it's about being alive and bringing each other to life, and life just happens to be growth (especially the introverted aspect of life) - unlike fucking depression, which is the voice you speak from, as if it were your true self. stop hating your nature.

 

[Huxley]

no

tis sick, to assume that this has to do with hierarchy or power or a feeling of self-worth or whatever outgrowing implies to you, when it's about being alive and bringing each other to life, and life just happens to be growth (especially the introverted aspect of life) - unlike fucking depression, which is the voice you speak from, as if it were your true self. stop hating your nature.

Stop preaching to me. I'm not your choir boy.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I've tried that. But as @Absurdity said, you lose hope on new people. Old people become dry and boring. New aren't worth it.

Well being in groups can take you further away from your real self as you perceive yourself to be, and enough of that can lead to more depression as the people you socialize with value you for something you're not.

I don't think you should give up on individuals, and even then the best thing is to build a group from the bottom-up of individuals you feel connected to.

 

[nanook]

the "choir boy" theme is an interesting projection, i just have to give that back to you, but now i will leave you alone.

 

[Words]

Well being in groups can take you further away from your real self as you perceive yourself to be, and enough of that can lead to more depression as the people you socialize with value you for something you're not.

I don't think you should give up on individuals, and even then the best thing is to build a group from the bottom-up of individuals you feel connected to.

"This." I hate saying that because supporting points are not mentioned, except in the form of "appeal to one more random person" like in a voting situation, so I will extrapolate somehow. ...I can't. I guess it's a matter of experience. Individuals are great. and you building a group of "true" individuals is simply a case of multiplying the greatness of individuals. I think it's about honesty in perceiving one's self.

 

[pjoa09]

Wait... what the fuck. You make people do your shit? Is that what I am reading? I do that too! If it's something that I don't want to do.

If you are talking to lots of other people to satisfy something then that is just absurd.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Am I like you?

Ralph Steadman avatar?

 

[Adamastor]

Wow, I wrote quite a bit. I doubt anyone's going to bother reading my whole rambling. But it was nice writing anyway
___

Lately, I've been feeling something similar to your "need of people".
I too find comfort in people and lately I've been looking for it. Which NEVER happened in the past. So I kind of questioned my "INTPness" recently.

Well, the explanation I found to that is that my current focus is set to human relationships, cause it's something new to me so, for now it's somewhat fascinating, I'm discovering things and I like to challenge my negative emotions such as fear (which is the dominant feeling I have to say) when doing so. So, it's actually kinda of fun

Haha, reading the above paragraph you may thing that it's somewhat an utopic wonderland and in fact it is. That's not how reality is for me now, but truth is I am glad the way I am now (far from the utopy, imperfect) striving to achieve wonderland.
__
Lemme try to be less abstract sharing some of my results so far.
About three years in the past, I was terrified by ANY kinda of social interaction and it was quite bothersome. I was dominated by fear of people, which I couldn't look straight in the eyes (a very intimate thing IMO), because I felt I didn't "deserve" to do so. I would mostly look at the ground and be imersed in my own thoughts.
I physically neglected the outer world and simply was not there.

But, you see, I'm quite the perfectionist and from my point of feel my way of dealing with my peers was FAR from perfection, thus I put my efforts in improving that. Which was probably an excuse, cause at that time I found some interesting people, which potentionally didn't find me as interesting as I found them, which was frustating.
Really frustating. I am really egocentric (reeeeeeeeeallly. I mean it.) and that is a trait I despise in myself but which defines me. So frustating, because since I got some interest in other human beings, I was "disgusted" how they reciprocate:

Hey, you interest me, but I don't interest you. Thus I am a loser.
Hmmm... But I am badass, I can't be a loser. How to be a winner then?
In my search for winning. I pretty much reached the same conclusions that are written on this page:
http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INTP_per.html

It was really surprising how acurate it was. I had and still have lot's of the commom INTP problems that were listed there. And it was really satisfying to see how I could conquer the critical ones in my own way...

I'm gonna list a few which made put every other people on earth FAR from my inner world:

They may be extremely caustic and insulting to others.
You see... I can't compliment a person (I tried to fix that, but failed). Because I do not compliment myself. I'm a perfectionist. Success is trivial, failure is wrong and SHOULD be noted and fixed.
Lots of people get a BAD impression of you, if everything you said about them was criticism. It took a while for me to figure that because I don't mind when other criticize me. I actually like it.

They may not recognize basic social principles, such as appropriate dress and general behavior.

Spoiler

As idiotic as it may sound and is... Appeareance, the way you dress, the way you walk, the way you talk, the way you look is very important in our society. Basically I learned that if I want someone to approach me (cause I REFUSE to approach others :P) I first have to win their favor with my outer-self.
That's is difficult, really difficult for me. But apparently I was fortunate to being born with a rather simetrical face, and physical which is "attractive" (I don't really buy that. But I can't deny it helped me before)

I didn't salute people. I didn't congratulate them. Cause most social norms like these are meaningless to me. They are really important. I hate it, that was the reason I put my self in a position which I can disregard it. (but if I am exploring new horizons I have to deal with it.)

They may unknowingly or uncaringly hurt people's feelings.

Spoiler

I fell in love once in my life.
That was the turning for a whole new crisis. And thing is I found how bad with my feelings and, especially other feelings, I am. (Yeah she was quite the radical F)
To me words are but words.
But to her, apparently it was way more, because I made her mad, sad a good deal of times without intention and never had the competence to fix it.
Needless to say that I was unable to be in a relationship with her ;(

The INTP resists and rejects anything that doesn't support their own experiential understanding of the world. If they perceive that something is not logical, they reject it as unimportant.

Spoiler

That is directly related to the problems above. If your not careful in the way you express how "unimportant" things are you are doomed keep away people from you. (which sometimes is a good thing )

They may be completely unaware of how to express their inner world to others in a meaningful way.

Spoiler

Well, being literal is simply not enough sometimes. And it's really hard to communicate with someone who doesn't speak your own language. I am still bad at it ^^ (not a big problem IMO though)

They may be completely unaware of the type of communication that is often desireable and (to some degree) expected in an intimate relationship. If they are aware of the kinds of things that are appropriate to say and do to foster emotional bonding, they may be unable to appreciate the value of such actions. They may feel too vulnerable to express themselves in this fashion, and so reject the entire idea.

Spoiler

Thing is I don't understand people's emotional needs. I like some people, but I don't have in me what is needed to maintain a social bound. It's too much hassle.
One may question: But if you like them isn't it worht the effort? The sacrifice?
Well, maybe.
But to avoid it. I literally say from the beginning that I am UNABLE to maintain a relationship, that I am "ATEMPORAL". I may stop talking/seeing you now, and talk seven years later, exactly as we would talk now.
This way they know what to expect. My dear friend are well aware of this fact. Although I have to remind them of it in some occasions.

___
K, got tired of writing about my pathetic and grandiose life.
Time to go back to "the big bang theory" ^^

 

[redbaron]

My advice:

 

[EyeSeeCold]

My advice:

http://memearchive.net/memerial.net/4845/deal-with-it-lol-cat.jpg

That's more of a command than advice, a suggestion at least.

 

[pjoa09]

That's more of a command than advice, a suggestion at least.

Isn't an advice a suggestion?

Still, I would've thought I could deal with something without feedback before I end up posting it online. I think it is safe to presume OP is having some difficulties 'dealing with it'.

Or just doubts his 'INTPhood' since he is finding himself reliant on people.

 

[Late2theParty]

Hmmm.. I've always wanted relationships with other people... but I find it nearly impossible to forge a genuine connection with most of the population. Don't get me wrong, I need long periods of being alone and I don't need people nearly as much as the average person... but I'm still human and I want connection. Every once in a while I run into somebody where things seem to just 'click' and I can be my true self and we seem to resonate off of each other and have chemistry. But it's super fucking rare. I wish it was easier.

I feel like in another universe somewhere there's a society with a lot of INTP's in the population and events and culture is shaped around our interests. I would actually enjoy having more of a social life if it was somehow more geared towards my natural intp interests.


@Huxley intp's and people in general change over time. Perhaps your body / mind is telling you it's time to get in touch with some neglected sides of your personality. I'd go with it.

 

[Etheri]

Wow, I wrote quite a bit. I doubt anyone's going to bother reading my whole rambling. But it was nice writing anyway
___
Hey, you interest me, but I don't interest you. Thus I am a loser.

Read all of, i'm just going to quote you on this one line tho. I feel quite alike in the lines of alot of your examples. Nuancing ofcourse, but I've had similar things or atleast thoughts. This, however, ... Most of the time I find it the other way around. I can talk with people, and we can have fun and talk about all the shallow random things people (read : extraverts) talk about all day long, but I cannot have any 'deep' converstations with them, concerning things as morals, philosophy, science, view on society, life, the world, etc. When I ask them about their own thoughts or opinions, they quote things they heard from others, television, things they were thought... I find alot of people uninteresting because I feel they cannot think for themselves, or because they cannot think without their emotions attached to basically everything. Obviously, likewise, they aren't interested in any of these things either.

Hmmm.. I've always wanted relationships with other people... but I find it nearly impossible to forge a genuine connection with most of the population. Don't get me wrong, I need long periods of being alone and I don't need people nearly as much as the average person... but I'm still human and I want connection. Every once in a while I run into somebody where things seem to just 'click' and I can be my true self and we seem to resonate off of each other and have chemistry. But it's super fucking rare. I wish it was easier.

So very true. And, in a way, even if i do build up a connection with people, unless they're strongly introverted themselves, it feels like these connection are doomed to crumble down and die because... I guess I don't, perhaps even can't, feed them enough. Most people want so much attention, which honestly, I can't give them.

 

[hablahdoo]

as souls, we live for the simple event of meeting other souls, just looking eye to eye, it's the subtlest mirror principle in our soul, which fulfills us, because our self is constructed like this: for every self-representation (or aspect thereof) within our self-system (brain) there is an object-representation (or correlating aspect thereof) and the self is somewhat holographic, meaning being fulfilled implies synchronous arousal in self-representation and other-representations.

Essentially you are saying is that there is a physical representation in the brain from which the idea of self derives. And that this physical representation of self triggers some emotional response when it is called alongside the physical representation of others. Correct?

Does this come from observation or from a scientific study of the brain? I am only curious. Either way it sounds totally reasonable as I've noticed this feeling of connectedness through observing myself even imagining being around other people.

 

[nanook]

Essentially you are saying is that there is a physical representation in the brain from which the idea of self derives. And that this physical representation of self triggers some emotional response when it is called alongside the physical representation of others. Correct?

Does this come from observation or from a scientific study of the brain? I am only curious. Either way it sounds totally reasonable as I've noticed this feeling of connectedness through observing myself even imagining being around other people.

for example this video goes into it from the neuroscience perspective. common sense observation (reverse engineering) of life must bring everyone to the same conclusion. look at antisocial bums who drink beer together, while arguing about shit, as if they hate each other, yet they don't choose to be alone. look at any level of organisation of society or relationship. there is an identity that correlates in complexity/depth and awareness with the depth of it's understanding of other people and the resulting depth of interaction. the mirror principle goes through all levels, it starts at baby level, at the most basic emotions. there would be no society, if it wasn't for this connection. but you need to find your match, to get an all levels, full circuit highlight. in the logic of enneagram neurosis, in my understanding, it's seen that the false self and the self strategy is a subjective response to an subjective (internal) image of "other". a common sense saying is: "judging someone defines who you are, not who they are". or just take a good look at your dreams, have some interaction with dream characters. a separate self is illusion. no way to be happy or at peace, if you don't find a way to get along with 'other'. you can't cut it out.

 

[hablahdoo]

Thanks that clears up a bit where you're coming from. While I can't pay much attention to the video because I have no scientific knowledge to assess its validity, the concept that people need other people is very hard to disagree with if you are observant of the emotional state of others and yourself.

Regarding Huxley:

Totally understand the frustration, but you're trying to fight away features that are hard coded in your brain. You can't wish away the response of being around people any more than you can wish away the response of stabbing yourself in the hand. It is automatic.

Spoiler

You have to understand the animal inside you and how to satisfy it. I just try to take up opportunities to be around people just to be around them even if I'm not so talkative. Not that I know much on this, I just share the conflict.