Fe description

[MichiganJFrog]

This may have been covered elsewhere, but I was just wondering how folks would characterize their experience of Fe. For me, the metaphor that seems to describe mine is watching the Chinese New Year parade. One float would go by, then another, and another, and I would feel nothing.

Then this one float would come along (actually a marching band [I'll explain later]), and I would be almost moved to tears and overcome with emotion. Then more boring floats would go by, then maybe one that was amusing and original, and I would almost laugh uncontrollably. Etc.

Seems like that's how my whole life has been: essentially an emotional flatline with a few dramatic spikes in activity. I'm hoping that as I enter my dotage and my Fe matures, this line will gradually begin to resemble a wave. What say you?

 

[MissQuote]

That seems like a good description, actually.

I tend to emote in random bursts then go back to being okay again, more or less quickly.

 

[BigApplePi]

This may have been covered elsewhere, but I was just wondering how folks would characterize their experience of Fe. For me, the metaphor that seems to describe mine is watching the Chinese New Year parade. One float would go by, then another, and another, and I would feel nothing.

Then this one float would come along (actually a marching band [I'll explain later]), and I would be almost moved to tears and overcome with emotion. Then more boring floats would go by, then maybe one that was amusing and original, and I would almost laugh uncontrollably. Etc.

Seems like that's how my whole life has been: essentially an emotional flatline with a few dramatic spikes in activity. I'm hoping that as I enter my dotage and my Fe matures, this line will gradually begin to resemble a wave. What say you?

If you saw a group of two digit numbers going by would you have a similar reaction? If you would, then we'll take that up separately. That float/ marching band could have triggered some important memory. Do you know what it could be? Things like that happen to me frequently but I can usually connect the dots. It depends on how well you can make the connection. Then we'll have to look at that because I don't think you mentioned it.

 

[Dapper Dan]

Depends on the activity. Obviously a float parade is not going to be all that emotionally invigorating.

Playing games (or sports!) with friends absolutely gets me going.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

If you saw a group of two digit numbers going by would you have a similar reaction? If you would, then we'll take that up separately.

I probably would, but it's too weird and involved to explain here. It would depend on the numbers. My theory right now is that it's some kind of OCD thing.

I'm trying to rekindle my youthful interest in astronomy, so if a bunch of telescopes and astrolabes went marching by, I'd probably turn into a blubbering idiot.

That float/ marching band could have triggered some important memory. Do you know what it could be?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I wasn't trying to be mysterious. I was in the marching band in high school, and I'm just now realizing that whatever social cohesion I was able to achieve back then was due in large part to that, even if we were a bunch of miscreants.

In addition, all of the marching bands in this parade were African-American. I read practically every day about violence on the South Side, so seeing these kids putting their best foot forward like that really got to me. Just recalling it is having a pretty powerful effect on me right now.

So, I understood pretty quickly what was happening internally, but the intensity of the feeling still took me by surprise.

 

[intpz]

Hm, I don't have such experiences. I just plain dislike stuff that I dislike, no emotions. That's it. If I like something, I like it and sometimes do feel emotional about it - feeling positive emotions, or sadness or whatever the particular action or event might be inducing. But no such outbursts or randomness.

 

[BigApplePi]

I probably would, but it's too weird and involved to explain here. It would depend on the numbers. My theory right now is that it's some kind of OCD thing.

My thing is 342. I keep seeing it everywhere. Mild OCD. I loved Babe Ruth's lifetime batting average. It was .342. I must have seen that number 5-6 times. I think of it as magic.

I'm trying to rekindle my youthful interest in astronomy, so if a bunch of telescopes and astrolabes went marching by, I'd probably turn into a blubbering idiot.

The thread title is about Fe. Why not? Perhaps the overcompensation of thinking occurs because we can't nail down emotions ... or at the very least fall short.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I wasn't trying to be mysterious. I was in the marching band in high school, and I'm just now realizing that whatever social cohesion I was able to achieve back then was due in large part to that, even if we were a bunch of miscreants.

In addition, all of the marching bands in this parade were African-American. I read practically every day about violence on the South Side, so seeing these kids putting their best foot forward like that really got to me. Just recalling it is having a pretty powerful effect on me right now.

So, I understood pretty quickly what was happening internally, but the intensity of the feeling still took me by surprise.

There. You see. There must be an identification there yet to have a refined explanation.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

Hm, I don't have such experiences. I just plain dislike stuff that I dislike, no emotions. That's it. If I like something, I like it and sometimes do feel emotional about it - feeling positive emotions, or sadness or whatever the particular action or event might be inducing. But no such outbursts or randomness.

I was gonna say, "Wait 'til you're my age, kid," but the fact of the matter is I have always had volatile emotions. When I was a kid, other kids found it either off-putting or entertaining. It could be something totally unrelated to INTP-dom, or perhaps there are INTP subtypes.

My thing is 342. I keep seeing it everywhere. Mild OCD. I loved Babe Ruth's lifetime batting average. It was .342. I must have seen that number 5-6 times. I think of it as magic.

Huh, I thought sure you would've said 3.14. But those digits add up to 8, which is really bad. 342 is much better. Its digits add up to 9. 9 is good. (Are you backing away slowly yet?)

Perhaps the overcompensation of thinking occurs because we can't nail down emotions ... or at the very least fall short.

Yeah, I'm trying to use logic to understand emotions. Experiencing them directly, unmediated -- hoo, boy, that's gonna take some work.

 

[intpz]

I was gonna say, "Wait 'til you're my age, kid," but the fact of the matter is I have always had volatile emotions. When I was a kid, other kids found it either off-putting or entertaining. It could be something totally unrelated to INTP-dom, or perhaps there are INTP subtypes.

Well I'm 20, and I bet you're around 30-40 from this post of yours. However I've never had any outbursts like that. I guess the closest thing to that was a scene in a movie, but then I was trying to feel as emotional as I can, just to see what happens. I can also fake tears without thinking about something sad.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

I tend to emote in random bursts then go back to being okay again, more or less quickly.

Well I'm 20, and I bet you're around 30-40 from this post of yours. However I've never had any outbursts like that.

Sounds like you're both innately capable of emotional self-regulation. If there were a genie handy, that would be one of my three wishes. However, I seem to be picking it up on my own through independent study. Or I'm just getting older and mellowing out.

Just turned 48.

 

[intpz]

I think the hardest times to control my emotions are when somebody's trying to get their ideology into my head, like a teacher who doesn't like that I don't give a shit. If I say something, I could potentially get poorer grades or get picked on, so I tend to keep quiet. Until I am sure that my grades ensure me passing alright, even if I'd get one worse than usual grade. Also depends on the teacher... But in any case, it's sometimes hard to control my laughter (though I'm able to do it) when the guy's shouting at me and spilling irrational and illogical arguments, like religion, tradition, "because it's important," "just because," "because i said so," etc.. After 8 or 10 such arguments it starts to get really funny to listen to the guy. Good thing I finished school, so I can say whatever I want to anyone now. Therefore, I can be an asshole, and respond to their irrationality without any consequences. I still have to go and get my diploma, and possibly get my ass to the graduation party. Still not sure if I wanna go there...

 

[GYX_Kid]

A secret and hidden longing for recognition and acceptance, that the other functions are too aloof/laundry-list-of-other-adjectives to admit

 

[BigApplePi]

Yeah, I'm trying to use logic to understand emotions. Experiencing them directly, unmediated -- hoo, boy, that's gonna take some work.

I'm game for that. Why can't INTP's who have trouble controlling or handling emotions get a handle on what could bring them about ... besides random physiology? Might be fun. How about this for starters?

Emotions - bunched up juices which fill the mind for some kind of action attitude.
Feelings - just impressions by same juices which aren't so great as to overpower the mind.
Hate - desire to destroy combined with thoughts
Love - desire to be with
Fear - desire to get away from

Those I think of as basic, but what are some others?

Excitement - a kind of love, desire to be involved with somehow
Joy - desire to continue great pleasure
Anguish - desire to get away from great pain
Sadness - desire to not be in some undefined painful state
Anxiety - vague undefined fear

What else? Are those the right meanings? Are there more which are hard to make sense of?

 

[Vrecknidj]

Yeah, I'm trying to use logic to understand emotions. Experiencing them directly, unmediated -- hoo, boy, that's gonna take some work.

I make no predictions here on your success in this. However, to use a really bad analogy, if someone uses a telescope to look for God, and then says "There is no God," it's not unreasonable to reply, "You're using the wrong tool!"

Anyway, it might be that logic is the wrong tool for understanding emotions. Maybe not--maybe your project will work. But, just a suggestion that your results will be affected by the tool you choose.

Dave

 

[intpz]

Well I'm trying to understand emotions by logic as well. In other words, describe what each emotion means, like BigApplePi just did. I'm probably gonna re-read your post later, think about it and reply. Kinda not feeling like it at the moment.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

Here's another analogy, based on my understanding of electricity: Ohms regulate the flow of amps through a circuit, while volts try to push the amps forward. If I'm the amp, logic represents the ohms, and emotions represent the volts. I am trying to use logic to slow myself down, in order to decide if I want to go wherever it is my emotions want me to go, and also to get a better look at them.

 

[MissQuote]

I am feel despair at the idea that a fellow INTP in their late forties hasn't figured this all out yet. Does this mean there is no hope?

Actually, I am not feeling despair any longer, after writing that, I am pretty sure I am feeling amusement over the idea that I thought to write that... but now I am feeling anxiety that maybe the joke is only funny to me and I'll look awkward and weird to you guys for making it.

Really, I've decided that feeling anything over this comment is ludicrousness so I am not feeling at all I am simply experimenting what will happen if I click Post Reply. I am thinking, not much. But that is open to reflection.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

I am feel despair at the idea that a fellow INTP in their late forties hasn't figured this all out yet. Does this mean there is no hope?

No, I don't think so, not at all. I really wouldn't despair. I'd look at it -- self-discovery -- as a project to keep you busy, and to add meaning to your life. I'm only just getting started on this myself. I really meant what I said about mellowing out as I age. I think the turmoil in my head has subsided to the point where I can finally think straight often enough to make some progress.

I already feel more hopeful, and excited, than I have at just about any time since before I entered the public education system (before Nixon was president!). I am putting a puzzle together, asking questions on sites like this, gathering, assembling, and synthesizing information, figuring out why things went the way they did for me and also figuring out how to change things for the better.

I am still skeptical of much of the MBTI, but it looks as if quite a few clinical trials lend support to it, and explain quite well why I had such a hard time, especially as a teen, than as an undergraduate, and then once I entered the work force. There's a doctoral dissertation called Listening to Chaos that says INTPs are one of several personality types most likely to seek counseling at university health centers. There's a study on "managerial derailment" that says INTPs are highly likely to experience this phenomenon. There's yet another that says INTP or INFP children are highly likely to fall into the "gifted" category, and just as likely to suffer from depression and suicidal ideation, especially if they're better at verbal skills than they are at math skills.

All of these things happened to me, and I have finally found some evidence to support my beliefs that my primary and secondary schools didn't serve me very well, that I studied the wrong things and hung out with the wrong people as an undergrad, and that I was in the wrong line of work (journalism) for years and years. It literally drove me crazy.

I have finally begun to accept myself and to pursue career and social options that mesh well with my personality. As I said, I have lingering doubts about much of the MBTI, but enough of it rings true to me that I want to continue investigating it. In fact, I think it's critical that I do. I've been in denial for most of my life, and I've been trying to pass as an extravert, fooling no one but me. So I want to explore what introversion means. So far, it seems to be paying off.

 

[BigApplePi]

MJF. Thank you for that bio. It's something to emulate.

 

[Agent Intellect]

Fe is a transition metal produced during the silicon burning process in stars with about 10 solar masses at a minimum of 2.7 billion kelvin. Fe is the last element to release energy during nuclear fusion and is therefore a decent indicator for a star near death. Fe is about 55.85 grams per mole with a density of 7.87 grams per cubic centimeter, a melting point around 1538 degrees Celsius-

Oh, you mean the MBTI function. If I had to characterize that I would say that it's a feeling of empathy for underdog types and an eye open for unfairness. Nothing gets me into an emotional state more than seeing subjugated or marginalized individuals or groups of people. I might even go so far as to say it can become somewhat of a savior complex, making me wish I had the resources to save every outcast, loser, underdog, and minority.

 

[Triginta Septem]

My thing is 342. I keep seeing it everywhere. Mild OCD. I loved Babe Ruth's lifetime batting average. It was .342. I must have seen that number 5-6 times. I think of it as magic.

That is so weird. For quite a while, I have been obsessed with the number 37, and it's been showing up everywhere in my life. Strangely, it's apparently a pretty common number to be obsessed with.

As for the Fe, I have pretty much the weirdest emotions ever for an INTP, because I not only keep my real emotions inside, but my reaction to almost any comment is what would appear to be happiness ("I laugh because I have no idea what to say" sort of thing...), sometimes, a friend will be talking about killing kangaroos, which is not funny at all, and I am like craking up. This ends with her writing on my arms that I "kill kangaroos and throw puppies in rivers"... (I don't do either, by the way) Also, like a lot of INTPs, I deal with what I mistake for "love" in the strangest ways, and it usually becomes what I believe is called "limerence". This sort of thing ruins your relationship with a person big time... ^^'

This is just in general, by the way... With some people of certain types (especially ENFP, strangely), I have quite normal emotions, somehow...

 

[Urraco]

I really like your parade analogy, it fits very well. Mine is either all or nothing, usually. However, I've been learning more and more lately that the inferior doesn't always have to be bad. I found myself surprised at how good of a host I can be when I pay attention to the "network" of people. I'm dating an INFP and I'm always so jealous of how good he is with people, so it makes me feel really good when I can spot and take care of personal issues that aren't as private as Fi might see - Sims meters like "hungry" or "probably stressed because their finals are tomorrow." It's also kind of bizarre explaining to a Feeler that you probably should/shouldn't do this because it might seem rude or something.

Other than that though it's hit and miss. It kind of bothers people I think, actually. For example, I had a close friend kill himself back in 2008, and for the first few days afterwards I would joke about it (none of my other friends knew him, I'm not completely heartless). I know it sounds wrong, but that's how I dealt with it. Then I had a soul-crushing two or three hours a few days later where I cried until I threw up and felt like I wanted the world to close in and smash me to pieces. Then it all receded and I was back to joking about it.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

MJF. Thank you for that bio. It's something to emulate.

I'm glad you liked it, BAP. I've found a lot of other things to relate to in descriptions I've read of INTPs, including the typical disastrous dating experiences in early adulthood. I would think that if you found a better way to get this sort of information out to young people, they wouldn't have to go through what I did. That may be a utopian fantasy, but then again, it might be worth a shot.

I found myself surprised at how good of a host I can be when I pay attention to the "network" of people.

If my wife and I host parties, I get very concerned that people are enjoying themselves. I am trying to ease off so people don't feel like they're being monitored.

Also, last night I came across this page on a "life coaching Web site" that says introverts are actually ideally suited to the host role:

Introverts often know intuitively how to scope out a room, how to make sure other people are comfortable, and how to make sure their guests have a good time.

Like a lot of stuff I've read, this page says we should try to adopt extraverted behaviors to achieve greater success. What's different about it is that it says that once we get people's attention, we should employ the strengths of introversion to solidify the relationships we've formed.

 

[Words]

As visible spectrum is to eye, shared values (->shared emotion) is to Fe. It seems to me that it is morelike a mental creation though, and not so much as real(objective) as the eye or even "numbers" are.

 

[redbaron]

But in any case, it's sometimes hard to control my laughter (though I'm able to do it) when the guy's shouting at me and spilling irrational and illogical arguments, like religion, tradition, "because it's important," "just because," "because i said so," etc.. After 8 or 10 such arguments it starts to get really funny to listen to the guy. Good thing I finished school, so I can say whatever I want to anyone now. Therefore, I can be an asshole, and respond to their irrationality without any consequences.

Look out, we have a badass here

 

[MichiganJFrog]

Excitement - a kind of love, desire to be involved with somehow
Joy - desire to continue great pleasure
Anguish - desire to get away from great pain
Sadness - desire to not be in some undefined painful state
Anxiety - vague undefined fear

What else? Are those the right meanings? Are there more which are hard to make sense of?

Those sound good. Obviously, the word "emotion" is about movement, which is either forward or backward. The first two definitions on your list describe movement toward something, the second two describe movement away from something, and the last one describes a kind of paralysis. Basically on the money, I'd say.

The one emotion whose nature and purpose I'm still struggling to understand is rage. I thought I had figured out what to do with it a little while ago, but now I'm blanking on it.

 

[BigApplePi]

Fe is a transition metal produced during the silicon burning process in stars with about 10 solar masses at a minimum of 2.7 billion kelvin. Fe is the last element to release energy during nuclear fusion and is therefore a decent indicator for a star near death. Fe is about 55.85 grams per mole with a density of 7.87 grams per cubic centimeter, a melting point around 1538 degrees Celsius-

Oh, you mean the MBTI function. If I had to characterize that I would say that it's a feeling of empathy for underdog types and an eye open for unfairness. Nothing gets me into an emotional state more than seeing subjugated or marginalized individuals or groups of people. I might even go so far as to say it can become somewhat of a savior complex, making me wish I had the resources to save every outcast, loser, underdog, and minority.

Thank you for that explanation in detail. I had thought fe was one of them note thingies: do re fa so la ti do.

 

[BigApplePi]

The one emotion whose nature and purpose I'm still struggling to understand is rage. I thought I had figured out what to do with it a little while ago, but now I'm blanking on it.

Rage = an emotion directed toward destroying the totality of an imagined undefined or ambiguous situation causing one pain. Maybe someone can improve on that. Note this seems to be in the same family as outrage, anger and hate.

Hate is the awareness of pain caused by something external.
Anger is the desire to move against this.
Outrage seems to be anger against a moral injustice.
Rage is unrefined uncontrolled anger.

The first two, maybe three seem to involve thinking thoughts.
The last does not.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

Rage is unrefined uncontrolled anger.

The first two, maybe three seem to involve thinking thoughts.
The last does not.

Uncontrolled -- yes, absolutely. I've also seen rage defined as "unprocessed" anger, and I've seen "overwhelming" used in reference to it. I have even seen some references to a thought process of sorts, but it sounds as if it's usually a faulty one, and it's so automatic you don't even realize it's happening. It's probably one of those primitive emotions that usually doesn't serve us very well anymore.

To summarize a summary I saw, it goes something like, "You perceive a threat, and you see no way to neutralize that threat except through violence." I've had that thought, but never acted on it. Instead, I think it comes out as anxiety and panic attacks, or sarcasm, cynicism, or general negativity.

 

[redbaron]

I can usually find a root cause for my emotions after the fact, but during times of emotion I am highly volatile, though it disappears just as quickly as it comes. I would agree with the 'up-down' type relationship with my feelings.

I can't say I've ever worried about this though, as I don't see what it matters.

Some people get fired up at certain things, some people don't. If everyone considered other people before they spoke and acted, the world would be a better place. I don't correct people for the sake of correctness any more, as it is pointless.

I've learned to use my emotion to reach out to other people who perhaps are not as intuitive or thoughtful as I am, to help them understand what it is that I'm saying. Being completely analytical/theoretical is just going to bore a lot of people, and you need to find ways to reach out to their S and F functions.

In short, embrace your emotions and when something is impressive don't waste the moment considering how it could be improved or modified and how it fits into the whole. Just enjoy it!

 

[BigApplePi]

Uncontrolled -- yes, absolutely. I've also seen rage defined as "unprocessed" anger, and I've seen "overwhelming" used in reference to it. I have even seen some references to a thought process of sorts, but it sounds as if it's usually a faulty one, and it's so automatic you don't even realize it's happening. It's probably one of those primitive emotions that usually doesn't serve us very well anymore.

To summarize a summary I saw, it goes something like, "You perceive a threat, and you see no way to neutralize that threat except through violence." I've had that thought, but never acted on it. Instead, I think it comes out as anxiety and panic attacks, or sarcasm, cynicism, or general negativity.

As per usual, I seem disposed to find exceptions to statements, lol. Uncontrolled anger is intimidating. So that could be affective in skilled, experienced hands. INTPs who are so disposed to thinking are not good with feelings. What about ExFx's though? These people are F experienced. So they can use a good display of rage while maintaining who-knows-what? inside their heads. The recipient is going to feel threatened by the very lack of control perceived, giving the enraged party their way. Very effective.

I looked on google briefly for an example of this but couldn't find a good one.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

What about ExFx's though? These people are F experienced. So they can use a good display of rage while maintaining who-knows-what? inside their heads. The recipient is going to feel threatened by the very lack of control perceived, giving the enraged party their way. Very effective.

I looked on google briefly for an example of this but couldn't find a good one.

Pretty much describes the other person in the disastrous relationship I referenced several posts ago. A master manipulator capable of employing at will any emotion necessary to achieved a desired end.

I'm guessing she was ESFJ. I've often wondered if certain personality types don't feel their emotions as deeply as others. It seems like some people feel them more often and more openly, but rarely on more than a surface level.

I thought the Personality Page had a pretty good summary of what happens when ESFJs go bad:

ESFJs who have not had the advantage of developing their own values by weighing them against a good external value system may develop very questionable values.

Regarding empathy (a natural outgrowth of Fe), ESFJs are all over that shit. That means they know probably innately how to use it and how to abuse it. Caregivers, indeed.

 

[MEDICaustik]

I've often wondered if certain personality types don't feel their emotions as deeply as others. It seems like some people feel them more often and more openly, but rarely on more than a surface level.

Like your original description, I too have massive changes in emotional intensity. Often I will be shuffling through my iPod, and skipping through all the songs until I find one that gives me some kind of emotional satisfaction. Often I have a very deep response. Whether or not that is INTP in action, or just some form of nostalgia, I don't know.

But I too am starting to suspect if emotion means less to other personalities than it does to INTPs. I have a great disdain for anybody who uses emotion to get what they want. I see emotion as a realm that should be off limits to manipulation. I place a high value on emotion, and hate to see it used as a tool for superficial things.

Maybe this stems from the INTP's preference to share emotion with only the most important people, at the most important times. Maybe we do value emotion that much more, because we protect it, and I think we may even have a richer, more intense emotional experience. This thread seems to indicate that.

I treat emotion as an entity of it's own, and I would never use it to gain power over another person. I have never been able to lie to a girl about the way I feel as a way of getting laid, as so many of my friends seem able to do. I have always had extreme difficulty in faking excitement over things I'm not excited about. I'm not good at disingenuous emotion.

 

[BigApplePi]

About thinking and feeling.

I just have to say this as I don't know where else to put it. I attended a "life" seminar last night given by an ENTJ. (I've known this ENTJ for a long while.) For the first time I realized he was giving equal importance to both thinking and feeling. To grasp this "equal importance", I pose a conclusion like so:

Thinking is the precise one when it comes to order and logic; feeling is fuzzy and inaccurate.

Feeling is the more accurate when it comes to seeing the overall picture of true values. Thinking fails as it inevitably makes logical mistakes in failing to see the overall picture.

Thinking describes; feeling directs. That is their purpose.

So where does this leave us with the thread title, "Fe description"?

 

[snafupants]

About thinking and feeling.

I just have to say this as I don't know where else to put it. I attended a "life" seminar last night given by an ENTJ. (I've known this ENTJ for a long while.) For the first time I realized he was giving equal importance to both thinking and feeling. To grasp this "equal importance", I pose a conclusion like so:

Thinking is the precise one when it comes to order and logic; feeling is fuzzy and inaccurate.

Feeling is the more accurate when it comes to seeing the overall picture of true values. Thinking fails as it inevitably makes logical mistakes in failing to see the overall picture.

Thinking describes; feeling directs. That is their purpose.

So where does this leave us with the thread title, "Fe description"?

That description of feeling leans on the extraverted feeling side of Jungian feeling (i.e., group values and intrapersonal principles), and that description of thinking outlines a feeble species of the introverted style of Jungian thinking. In other words, the thinking description is just an illustration of limited introverted thinking, which could be bolstered by enhancing introverted thinking itself, boosting its shared functions (e.g., extraverted intuition), or using extraverted thinking, which traditionally conceptualizes and synthesizes big chucks of data scooped up by, say, introverted intuition.

Spoiler

For any Jungian purists who postulate that MBTI and cognitive functions are a rude departure from Psychological Types, get a life.

Spoiler

I actually agree with the overarching yet silent premise of BAP's post in that introverted feeling and introverted thinking can become distorted and inaccurate and unanchored without external validation and social checks and balances.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

Like your original description, I too have massive changes in emotional intensity. Often I will be shuffling through my iPod, and skipping through all the songs until I find one that gives me some kind of emotional satisfaction. Often I have a very deep response. Whether or not that is INTP in action, or just some form of nostalgia, I don't know.

Says here that "introverted sensing is the most nostalgic of all functions." As Si is our #3 function, I'd say they're not two separate things, but that one follows from the other: nostalgia is part and parcel of being an INTP by virtue of our capacity for Si. I don't know how I'd make it if that were my dominant function, though. Yeesh.

If I'm out in public, shuffling through my iPod, and "Acalanto" by Dorival Caymmi comes on, I have to shut it off or I'll just start sobbing violently. I tried to find a good version of it on YT to post here, but no such luck.

But I too am starting to suspect if emotion means less to other personalities than it does to INTPs. I have a great disdain for anybody who uses emotion to get what they want. I see emotion as a realm that should be off limits to manipulation. I place a high value on emotion, and hate to see it used as a tool for superficial things.

Just seems like other types experience emotions differently than we do. They can cycle through them and transition more smoothly. Those are the "even-keel" types who often do well professionally because they don't have these sudden, volcanic outbursts like we do. So I think we have to learn to recognize when this is happening, and find ways to manage and moderate it. That's probably one of the things that's enabled me to keep my job as long as I have (fingers crossed).

I used to think having these sudden, violent attacks of emotion was a personal shortcoming, a flaw to be corrected. That only made me angrier. Now I see it as normal, and just something to monitor, and to figure out when's the right place and time to let it all out. Works much better so far.

Thinking is the precise one when it comes to order and logic; feeling is fuzzy and inaccurate.

Feeling is the more accurate when it comes to seeing the overall picture of true values. Thinking fails as it inevitably makes logical mistakes in failing to see the overall picture.

Thinking describes; feeling directs. That is their purpose.

Yeah. I think emotions set the goal and logic helps you figure how to get there. I think logic works in service of emotion, or, at the very least, you use them in tandem to pursue values.

So where does this leave us with the thread title, "Fe description"?

If by that you mean, "Have we gone off-topic?", possibly. For a topic I've seen discussed as much as this one, I'd expect a few tangents. I suppose emotion sparks so much interest because it's like water: we all need it, but some of us have easier access to it than others, and some of us know how to handle it better than others. If I lived in the desert, I'd probably read a lot of news articles about water scarcity, but since I live near one of the largest sources of fresh water in the world, it doesn't come up very often. In both cases, though, this resource can be mismanaged.

It does bum me out that my ability to access and understand other people's emotions (Fe) is so weak, and that my ability to access and understand my own (Fi) is virtually nonexistent.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

using extraverted thinking, which traditionally conceptualizes and synthesizes big chucks of data scooped up by, say, introverted intuition.

I find that I get easily overwhelmed when I try to employ Te, and then I end up blowing deadlines on projects I never should have undertaken in the first place.

 

[BigApplePi]

Feeling vs Thinking

@snafupants
This is what I originally proposed. It wasn't meant to be formal:

Thinking is the precise one when it comes to order and logic; feeling is fuzzy and inaccurate.

Feeling is the more accurate when it comes to seeing the overall picture of true values. Thinking fails as it inevitably makes logical mistakes in failing to see the overall picture.

Thinking describes; feeling directs. That is their purpose.

That description of feeling leans on the extraverted feeling side of Jungian feeling (i.e., group values and intrapersonal principles), and that description of thinking outlines a feeble species of the introverted style of Jungian thinking. In other words, the thinking description is just an illustration of limited introverted thinking, which could be bolstered by enhancing introverted thinking itself, boosting its shared functions (e.g., extraverted intuition), or using extraverted thinking, which traditionally conceptualizes and synthesizes big chucks of data scooped up by, say, introverted intuition.

For any Jungian purists who postulate that MBTI and cognitive functions are a rude departure from Psychological Types, get a life.

I actually agree with the overarching yet silent premise of BAP's post in that introverted feeling and introverted thinking can become distorted and inaccurate and unanchored without external validation and social checks and balances.

That's quite a critique snafu if I were trying to say something heavy ... and I am ... or I am after something heavy. I want to get at, what is the difference between thinking and feeling? That was my motive. So let's take a closer look at both messages.

Think substance vs form. I lean toward feeling = substance of life; thinking = form only. Feeling could be what we live for; thinking = shell. Life is motion. Feeling captures the substance of life ... all of the unconscious. Thinking is not motion. It's a snapshot of what is real. Although it moves, it is moving toward something and getting there says, "That's it." Thinking brings things to consciousness. That is what thinking is for. The animal part of us feels our entirety and thinking helps control it. Control is what makes thinking important. Now to the critique part of what you said.

Extroverted feeling is supposed to capture overall external values. But introverted feeling captures overall internal feelings. It's just that those internal feelings are about myself and no one sees them. Actually as an INTP I ignore such feelings as irrelevant. My internal feelings can be impacted but I will hide them <-- this topic is outside this post.

While I claimed thinking (to you, introverted thinking) , has only the accurate form of "something" internal and not the whole content, so likewise does extroverted thinking. Let me try this example and feel free to correct me:

Extroverted thinking has come up with many theories about the universe, say Newton's laws or in the health field, the application of drugs to cure disease. A lot of thinking has gone into these and the results have a precise description. Yet neither Newton's laws nor our knowledge of what drugs do to the body is complete. They are an imperfect template that when laid on reality fail to capture all of reality. Einstein's work blows Newton away and drug applications meant to succeed, fail. If we were to say these laws capture something "overall", I'm using "overall" in the content sense, not the encompasing template sense. So thinking, whether introverted or extroverted fails the overall content test. We are miserable failures as thinkers compared to what is omnisciently there.

Feeling, whether introverted or extroverted, is different. Feeling "feels" or knows something is missing by thinking and runs more true at filling in a whole value (some particular whole) though it is very sloppy to bring to consciousness and is communicated only indirectly. Feeling fills up the whole situation for some particular desire or motive direction. It is pure in its direction and fills the brain with importance. It fully "senses" the internal world will impact me some way OR I will impact the external world some way. It moves to this theme. Only after the event and the situation is over does it subside.