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nanook

a scream in a vortex
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nanook

a scream in a vortex
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yeah, i'm not cutting you some slack, here is your "fully deserved response". (you did nothing to deserve a second of my time, actually)


so, about perlmutter and his grain brain propaganda. cooked food, that can't be eaten raw, is still toxic to the human body, even after cooking, because cooking renders everything toxic, proteins and fats even more than carbohydrates, due to them being more complex and therefore damage from heat affecting them in a worse way, so there is a grain of truth to the criticism of grain, except this is abused systematically by the live stock industry, by not presenting things in true proportions, so as to make people feel good about replacing grains with more and more fats and proteins, which are the true causes of diseases of civilisation, such as full blown dementia, while grains would only cause tiny amounts of inflammation in most people (actually the opioids from wheat and similar psycho active substances in more exotic grains like improperly prepared buckwheat are the biggest health issues that come with grains, they can cause food addiction and in some more vulnerable people depression and even psychosis). people all over the earth who eat mainly grains or tubers and some cooked vegetables are never as healthy as people who consume fruits and raw vegetables, but they are a million times more healthy and long lived, than people who consume high amounts of cooked or processed fat and animal products. these are just the global facts and the sources quoted by perlmutter can't change that.

yeah, well, enjoy your 5 or 10 diseases of civilisation while feeling superior about how you don't facts check those books by that popular author you read and close your eyes to a website that gives you concrete insight into thousands and thousands of concrete studies. tabloid level material, yeah? of course this website must be all wrong, because it's presented by a smart well educated person in comprehensible manner, whereas the incomprehensible and thus fully meaningless appendix of your stupid book (the likes of which are found in every single conman's book out there) is sound proof of the accuracy of what you were told in those books. this website presents the actual scientific consensus, not just selective single odd studies that serve only a single perspective. it's continuously updating on the science, as new science comes out and it's the only such source of real science that i am aware of, that does it in comprehensible and comprehensive manner, so it's the one to share with everyone, because you fuckers are not remotely smart enough to study a thousand studies directly and to draw the right conclusions from them, you must rely on a middle man, like any other mortal being. and if you can't learn new things because you already know it all, than you are just fucked by the ignorance of your demented dairy clogged brain. oh, but it's just on the internet, not even a real book, so it must be wrong. what are you, a fucking hillbilly? your source checking "if i can't validate it, it must be superior. if it's accessible, it must be lies" is completely irrational and nothing but a manifestation of ego, it's a transparent lie, no logic at all!

i swear, "INTP" are the most intellectually ignorant type, judging by the idiots on this forum.
you are so wasting my time right now.

what nutritionfacts offers is from my position as a raw foodist almost a step backwards, but from your position it would be huge progress. superficially it may seem as if nutritionfacts simply promotes cooked foods such as grains and beans, but if you pay close attention it does so only in contrast to fats and animal products, which is perfectly justified by the facts. it also promotes raw foods (those that can be consumed raw because they are not toxic) more than cooked alternatives, but isn't particularly focusing on this, because obviously people like you, mainstream tabloid level people, normal people, who are the target audience of someone who want's to change the world for the better and help the most people out of their misery, are not even remotely ready for such deep truths as raw foodism but can potentially be swayed off from killing themselves with oils and animal products. nor are the corrupted government agencies ready for raw food, with which the author or nutritionfacts, along with other scientists seeks open debate (counselling their choices at meetings for this purpose).

nutritionfacts also offers debunking/putting into perspective of "grain brain", which is perfectly justified.

http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=grain+brain

https://youtu.be/21D8wtAHWJg?list=PLOhno1WRWMzJWovfJ4n6Csw4i7bybPsbp
 

nanook

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yeah well AND IF you still cant be BOTHERED to OPEN YOUR EYES to the OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE both in SCIENCE and the REAL WORLD then maybe you need some ELECTRO SHOCKS to ZAP OUT OF your video game TRANCE.

AND THE OTHER GUY.

"work out BEFORE AND AFTER a meal" he said.

"and eat only UNPROCESSED LIVE FOODS. Such as DEAD AND COOKED ANIMAL CORPSE AND PUSS!" he said. "Because that is what REAL MEN DO. KILL SOMETHING THAT WAS ALIVE, PROCESS, COOK AND EAT IT YOURSELF, because if you want something done properly, you gotta do it yourself, so go GET AN SUV and fetch yourself some ROADKILL" "AND PILLS, DON'T FORGET TO TAKE THOSE PILLS"

Don't ever do that thing where they tell you to eat ONLY things your physiology has EVIDENTLY evolved to deal with PROPERLY, EFFORTLESSLY, RESTLESSLY, as you CAN TEST FOR YOURSELF IN REPRODUCIBLE AND THEREFORE SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTS: SWEET fruits, tender TASTY vegetables, TENDER leafy greens for LIFE And for rapid weight loss the same in opposite order/priority AND WATER FASTING to get over any detox crisis, such as the flu and similar common 'sick times'.

This would be restrictive! Of Business. AND WAY TOO EASY.

You DESERVE more than that. YOU DESERVE TO CONSUME A LARGE VARIETY OF PRODUCTS, because that is all you are good for, sucker. You SHOULD certainly eat any commercially available food like PRODUCTS you have been MANIPULATED TO CRAVE and MAKE THEM TASTY by ADDING SALTS, SUGARS, MSG, BY BURNING AND CARAMELIZING IT ALL, by pouring tasteless oxidized oils over it all, which enhance the subjective EXPERIENCE of SALTS, SUGARS, MSGs and CARAMELIZATION by making them STICK AROUND LONGER IN YOUR MOUTH and you should be consuming STIMULANTS like COFFEE, KAKAO, GREEN TEA, to COVER UP THE FATIGUE that results from TOXEMIA and OVERWHELMED DIGESTIVE PROCESSES, in fact make it a point to eat AS MANY different types of unpleasant meals CAMOUFLAGED by as many different taste and texture PROCESSING TRICKS as are available in the modern food INDUSTRY. This food went through a complicated process of approval by AUTHORITIES, it's really SAFE FOR CONSUMPTION, which comes from "CONSUMING", which means BUYING, which means SELLING. It's SAFE TO SELL IT, as long as you don't have the POWER to sue their PSYCHOPATHIC ASSES for killing you slowly with their MISINFORMATION, PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION and PRODUCTS. AND PILLS, BUY PILLS, SWALLOW PILLS, PISS PILLS, SHIT PILLS; BECAUSE YOU NEED NUTRIENTS AND NUTRIENTS COME FROM PILLS which serve only one job, camouflaging a toxic substance that has a HORRIBLY VILE TASTE (ever opened a vitamin pill?) behind a plastic hull. Do it like your ancestors, they didn't restrict themselves, they just hunted and collected everything they could find AFTER EMIGRATING FROM PARADISE TO a BARREN HELL and they died from parasites and toxins AND KILLING EACH OTHER over the SCARCITY of REAL FOOD instead of PROCLAIMING AND DEMANDING A NATURAL LIFE LIKE A SPOILED INDIVIDUAL in a world where EVERYTHING WOULD BE POSSIBLE if we would only choose to ABANDON TRADITION and MAKE IT SO. Just add three leaves of lettuce to each and every FATTENING MEAL and then go and EXERCISE YOUR LAZY ASS off, before or after SELLING YOUR SOUL to your JOB that is. PAY a personal trainer TO MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE WORTHLESS SHIT, whenever you don't feel like OBEYING THE GAME OF SOCIOPATHIC SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST LOGIC any more. Also, SWIM knows a psychiatrist who can SELL YOU some legal amphetamines, so you can ride the bike all night long and some SLEEPING PILLS so you can sleep during the OXIDATIVE STRESS and ADRENAL BURNOUT that comes from exercising after having eaten processed or cooked oxidized FATs and while having eaten way too little carbohydrates to nourish YOUR CONSTANTLY STARVING MUSCLES THAT RUN BY 80% ON SUGARS AND REQUIRE THAT MUCH SUGAR TO REMAIN SUSTAINABLE TO YOUR BODY, because otherwise they would ENDANGER THE BRAIN by competing with the brains glycogen needs OVER TIME (the brain has priority in the present moment, but over time, the muscles have still opportunity to steal away glycogen resources that they brain would require in the future, WHILE the brain STILL has enough in the present moment ...), so the body will always SACRIFICE ALL MUSCLES that are not absolutely necessary for everyday activities unless nutrition delivers at least 80% of calories from carbs, or in the case of caloric restriction more than that. Attach some lead to your joints and always take the stairs, try swimming while you are at it. SUCKER. SHEEP. SLAVEBOY. WORK UNETHICAL SHIT, CONSUME DIRT, BURN OUT and PAY THE HOSPITAL BILLS. THATS WHAT YOU DESERVE.

is there no ESTPfoum? for those who have SATURATED FAT in place of a brain?

this subject... people, health translates into brainpower from day one of a babies live to your death, it's the foundation of consciousness and therefore the alpha and omega of everything else that may matter to any and all human beings. I have to WATCH AND SHUT UP while each and everyone of you chooses to suffer and deteriorate from their sentimental attachments to a toxic culture of misinformation and desperate traditional customs of surviving by eating shit just because it's the best they could do at the time and now they are too weakened to question their ways? SAD, motherfuckers, this is SAD!
 

The Gopher

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Well you have me completely and utterly convinced. :)
 

bvanevery

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I swear, "INTP" are the most intellectually ignorant type, judging by this forum. Such a waste of time and love.

Huh? I think you're reading things that aren't there. Do you think people aren't entitled to question your sources or something?

plays video games and claims that a pure and broad collection of up to date science is too tabloid level for him ...

I didn't claim your sources are tabloid level. I claimed my sources are not taboid level.


Happy to delve into all points of evidence as time allows. Which means I'm not promising to make a life research project about any of this.
 

Archer

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The simplest way to lose weight is to make sure calories in < calories out. Maintain a calorie deficit until you reach your target weight.

Easy as that.
 

Lot

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I think the lack of calories might be effecting your temper there nanook. But what does a stupid INTP know? I'm just sitting here dying in a video game coma, while you watch me die. Truly the dietary jesus is among us
 

Ex-User (9086)

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Well, I wouldn't go as far as linking one's soul to one's eating habits, that's for sure.
Appropriately enough, in Karmic systems of religion/spirituality killing to eat does impact one's baggage negatively, however even in those systems there are things that come before one's dietary habits.

Diet isn't some ticket to heaven, it may greatly impact life quality and its length, but it's not some imperative and in most cases the balanced (common sense - WHO recommended) diet is pretty sufficient for normal functioning. No be all end all by any means, still, following a good diet may net you a few more years, so there's incentive to staying relatively fit and eating well.
 

nanook

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lot, go and nail yourself to a cross, asshole. i speak from experience. i tried everything in the world that is fucked up misinformation and know that it won't work for you, so i post about it to save you from wasting years of your life with your own stupid experiments.

the low carb, the paleo, the slow carb (tim ferris, the man who has researched nutrition for four hours and wrote four books about it), the bullet proof coffee, the carb cycling, the intermittent fasting (three years of that shit), the 'smash it in and carb the fuck up because abundance heals the metabolism' scam, the starch solution (two years), i did it all. as well as all the bullshit that is closer to the mainstream such as 'get all your nutrients, you must get calcium from milk and while at it, get protein from whey powder, because it's the most digestible and complete (i consumed industrial sized buckets of various toxic protein powders) and consume fish because you need that omega 3, blah blah blah". yeah, i intoxicated myself with mercury for months until it made me really sick and fish made me feel like vomiting. only thing i never tried is fucking steroids.

the ones who pretend to be superior figures through preaching empty words say shit like "it's just calories in, calories out, so simple, everyone who is fat is more stupid than me, it's below me to pay attention to such a subject" or worse, they say nothing at all and try to kill my reputation by calling me jesus and continue to play video games.

yes, i am no longer suppressing my emotions to protect your fucking ignorant egos, because for me overcoming overweight has correlated with overcoming schizoid personality disorder, since for me accepting body fat correlates with preferring hiding out in a remote cave over confronting social conflict and demanding what is mine as the conflict occurs. such as respect, in this case. so fuck you, go to school, boy.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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You won't convince or educate anyone about a superior lifestyle neither by offending them, nor by having an annoying rant or being unwilling to discuss or present acceptable evidence for your cause.

Nanook, I'm asking you to cease this hysterical angry fit and if you feel like you can't communicate in a civil manner better keep all that negativity to yourself and avoid increasing the aggression.
 

nanook

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Do you think i should be silent while you indulge in self destruction?
Fine, then you don't deserve my presence, time and love.

Oh yeah, because it's totally my job to present evidence, as if any human being could possibly present evidence about something so complex. On a fucking message board. What an ignorant argument. I can only point out possibilities that you have been distracted from noticing and then you open your fucking eyes and go see and test for yourself. I suggest you get some Ne. Especially if you have to police an INTPforum.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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I don't stop you from preaching your part. I also think you have the right to be annoyed at others being unresponsive to your quaking.

I give you no orders, I merely interpret your actions so far as a failure, assuming it was intended to relay valuable advice or information.

Do as you will, everyone will judge you accordingly based on what they think. Be kind to others, then expect others to take kindly to you, that's all I'm suggesting here.

I'm not sure if we are deserving of your time and love, I'm sorry if we fail to meet your expectations, maybe don't be so hard on us? By what right or virtue can you be any more correct or expectant than any other person here, maybe show some humility and stop tripping for a moment. If you ask for respect, show that you have it yourself. It's a basis of a reflective relationship, if you expect others to receive you well, treat them not punish them.

Your expectations to follow your arbitrary guidelines 'just because' are unreasonable and egocentric.

You are a valuable contributor on this site, I think very few users here wouldn't care to lose the wisdom you share. If you think our attitude here is annoying at the moment I'm sure we can work to understand each other and get past this issue. It's possible everyone involved might need some time to reflect on the reasons why things didn't work so great just now.
 

Archer

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Nanook, why are you trying to lose fat? You look pretty fit already, especially after that fast. As far as losing weight goes, it actually is just about the calories unless you have a rare medical disorder. If you are running a calorie deficit your body will look to other sources for energy, like stored fat and muscle.

If you want to play dirty, 2,4 Dinitrophenol is the strongest fat burning drug I know of, it is also illegal to sell if it's marketed for human consumption so you might need to look around the darker places of the internet to find it. It is also dangerous to take if you're not intimately familiar with dose schedules and all of the foods/drugs that interact with it. While extremely effective, an overdose will be lethal and lead to a long, slow death. There is no known antidote if you OD, so I'm hesitant even mentioning it, but, I've used it safely a number of times to go from 15%-17% to 11%-12% bodyfat. The side effects are uncomfortable. but worth it for short periods of time.

Here's its wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol
Here's a 156 page write up on it: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxnfMMEHoolQNnZuWVAtOU1HbzQ/edit?pref=2&pli=1
 

nanook

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there are seven billion people on earth and you are not my family and i don't owe you. i can't love everyone. if i could, "love" would be an empty word without consequence, an imaginary feeling. but it's not. it's an action of dedicating myself to someone and his needs for the time being, insofar as i have in me, what it takes to address them. my love goes out to those who demonstrate the wish to receive it. i have never asked anyone for anything else. i am so demanding, all right. if you are disrespectful and you wrong me, you get the boot.

how disrespectful of you to pretend that you are in a position to oversee whether i will be able to convince someone. you create the appearance of authority out of thin air. you play a game of assaulting my character when your own attitude is at fault and your powertrip is just an egocentric need of yours. like the attitude of anyone here who gives advice that has not even worked for them, which i know, because the bullshit advice in this thread so far never works. you accuse me of failing to deliver evidence, like jesus was demanded to provide evidence of what can not be proven, in his case that he was awakened, which he described as owning a kingdom. and to tell me how to feel, ie not to be "egocentric" as you put it. i am not supposed to be angry at you people's lack of respect? you don't even contribute to this thread and i have a feeling you aren't overweight either, so you have nothing but disregard for this whole subject of life and death. do you think it's a joke when people are killing themselves with toxic products like whey or fish or chicken breast or eggs because they have been told, lied to, that these are powerful aids in weight loss? and then this guy who recommends me a plain toxic drug and thinks that obesity is a rare disorder. how disrespectful of you to decide that the life of people has not enough value to get in any heat over it nor enough value for you to question whether your clueless advice is responsible enough? it's probably plain disrespectful that you are showing up in this thread to begin with.

i went down from 45% bodyfat to 17% bodyfat and i won't stop before 8% and i have this huge amount of hungry fat cells in my body to live with, like everyone has, who was once obese, as fat cells do not disappear when they are emptied of their fat content. it's neither rare nor a disorder, to have many fat cells, just something that needs to be understood and i understand it now. it determines the rate in time at which a fault in your diet is revealing itself. some people can eat fatting foods and it takes them decades to actually get visibly fat. people like me will be fat within weeks or months.

staying lean means you need to find food that is satiating at the amount of calories of it, that do not cause you to explode. this is the most satiating food that exists, the most ideal and healing and least fattening food for human physiology and nothing else. the advice to just count calories without changing what foods you consume is complete bullshit, because no one can simply count all calories for the rest of their life. i counted each and every calory and recorded every food i had in five years, for scientific analysis, for study of metabolism and i'm telling you, it's demanding a lot of attention that is missing elsewhere and i had to reach the age of 30 before i even had the willpower to pull something like this off, with such a consistency.
 

bvanevery

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For the record I'm quite the ectomorph, and weight has never been a problem for me. But pain in the guts, that has been. I do know something about the psychology of dieting, of denying oneself things, of conditioning oneself differently, of eating mindfully rather than mindlessly. I can eat a no sugar diet. I've done it for several months at times, when I really thought I needed to fix my situation. But I think I got some results and now I don't feel I need to be anywhere near as careful. Still, I am mindful that if I eat too many bags of cookies, all the pain is going to come back. So I moderate my behavior, lest I suffer consequences.

The video you cited, which talks about Grain Brain, and a "missing" alzheimers study, does not contradict the theories presented in Grain Brain. Their theory is there are no "bad" cholesterols. However, some cholesterols do deform in the presence of sugar. So if you combine that specific cholesterol (I forget my acronyms) from the saturated fat, with a load of sugar, you get the arterial scarring. Get rid of the sugar, you have no problem. The evolutionary sales pitch is that we didn't have access to all this agriculture and all these sources of carbs and sugar. Carbs are just long chain sugars for those who aren't aware.

So, the "missing alzheimer's" study talks about correlation between saturated fat and people who get alzheimer's. Well duh, because they're probably eating as much carbs and sugar to go with that saturated fat, as most people in modern industrial societies do. The "missing alzheimer's" study doesn't disprove anything here.

Two things I've wondered about the Pearlmutter theories though:

- what about people who evolved in tropical environments who had access to pineapples, bananas, mangoes, etc? That's plenty of fructose, and they don't have real winters there.

- just how severe do you have to be with eliminating sugar and reducing carbs, for the theory to be of benefit? I'm not a purist. I've found I'm not willing or strongly motivated to be. If I'm not a purist, how bad is it for me? If the cholesterol is not strictly to blame, but in the real world it combines with sugar and carbs often enough to be the problem... well then the theory becomes academic for a lot of people. Sure you could live this way, but most people won't, especially as a matter of public health policy.

- there's stuff in the book about wheat itself being evil, because its genetic code is different, blah blah. I don't take those claims very seriously, in the sense that I will eat wheat and don't consider it a poison. I was more interested in the general messages about carbs, glycemic loads, insulin, and cholesterol deformation. I'd need to see more evidence to believe that modern wheat is bad because it's modern wheat, not just because it's a carb.

I've delved into a fair amount of nutritional stuff. More than a lot of people. One of my big motivators, was trying to solve my dog's various health problems over the years. Long story short, he's a raw fed dog, no kibble. But I had to learn a bunch of things so as not to be doing something stupid. And what actually worked, didn't entirely agree with what raw feeding proponents said. Particularly regarding what bones are safe and what are not. Anyways, I'm quite aware of how much complexity is involved in observing anything about diet. I had to do 12 week elimination diets with my dog, to see what was bothering him. 12 weeks. How often can you do that in your life, before it gets old? Well I did a fair number of them.

So, nanook, you can rail about the complexities, and all the things you've tried, and that you're at a good point now, etc. And that others are foolish for not heeding you, etc. But the domain is COMPLEX. There's also more than 1 pathway through the various problems. There are many variables in operation at once, and it's difficult, even for someone as aware as yourself, to control all those variables at the same time. You surely haven't subjected yourself to eating "only eggs" or some such, for a long period of time, have you? I've done that to my dog, picking only 1 food, for a long period of time. Even doing such things it's still hard to figure out, because other shit happens to a dog as well. Like fleas. Or fungal infections. Or toxins sprayed around someone's yard. Or the water supply. Awful lot of variables.

So when people aren't willing to take your lead on things, just on your say so, don't assume they're ignorant and misinformed about everything. Some of us have done large amounts of research and experimentation of our own. We may even have different biologies which give us different results.
 

crippli

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I think the best thing I can do for my 'diet' is to breath in less toxic fumes in my workshop. The last one was a product called duracoat, a two component paint. I did use a two filter chemical mask, but still that shit kept me fogged for days. No ventilation on the first layer.

Some research later, as I could actually feel this shit was not good, indicated that to do this safely one should use a full spray booth and wear a full hazmat space suit with oxygen tank and a re-breather, to be super safe...

So I agree with nanook. Not to proud of my smarts here, but gosh, that thing turned out beautifully.
 

Pyropyro

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Hm... I'm getting fat too. I wonder if I need to go back to doing martial arts. I want to do taekwondo but I think most of the students there would be kids and teens so it would be awkward as hell.

I wonder if there's a martial arts that are frequented by young adults or, even better, can be done with vids and right at home.

As for the diet thing, I'm thinking of substituting brewed coffee/tea over instant (which is sugared) coffee.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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there are seven billion people on earth and you are not my family and i don't owe you. i can't love everyone. if i could, "love" would be an empty word without consequence, an imaginary feeling. but it's not. it's an action of dedicating myself to someone and his needs for the time being, insofar as i have in me, what it takes to address them. my love goes out to those who demonstrate the wish to receive it. i have never asked anyone for anything else. i am so demanding, all right. if you are disrespectful and you wrong me, you get the boot.
Oh man oh boy. Does this mean that people you manage to "convince" after shouting at them as they become slaves to your perception and vision, that they are deserving of your love and attention? Seems deluded and sick to me. Who would want such affection? Mindless, powerless and frightened victims of your assault.

You are a prophet without disciples, you have no authority to speak of and yet you berate us for not giving you credit and respect. That's your ego tripping and you shouldn't have hurt people like that.

Maybe your problem with our "INTP ignorance" is that we don't buy into this manner of persuasion. Maybe other people would be more cooperative but we require some kind of evidence or viable argument to go with what you are saying. Maybe your preaching is incompatible with the kind of community you were addressing here?
 

onesteptwostep

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Come to either Korea or Japan and the diet will shape you up in no time ;)

(As for me I have trouble gaining weight.. fast metabolism)
 

Pyropyro

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Come to either Korea or Japan and the diet will shape you up in no time ;)

(As for me I have trouble gaining weight.. fast metabolism)

I can vouch for the Japan one. My rather obese friend trimmed a bit after a few weeks of visiting the Land of the Rising Sun. Maybe it's about the greens in their diet?

I swear I can eat kimchi and sushi indefinitely if needed be.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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I wonder if there's a martial arts that are frequented by young adults or, even better, can be done with vids and right at home.
Martial arts correspondence course, lol.

Aren't the Philippines famous for their knife and street-fighting arts? I figure there'd be mostly adults and scary looking thugs there.
 

Brontosaurie

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lot, go and nail yourself to a cross, asshole. i speak from experience. i tried everything in the world that is fucked up misinformation and know that it won't work for you, so i post about it to save you from wasting years of your life with your own stupid experiments.

the low carb, the paleo, the slow carb (tim ferris, the man who has researched nutrition for four hours and wrote four books about it), the bullet proof coffee, the carb cycling, the intermittent fasting (three years of that shit), the 'smash it in and carb the fuck up because abundance heals the metabolism' scam, the starch solution (two years), i did it all. as well as all the bullshit that is closer to the mainstream such as 'get all your nutrients, you must get calcium from milk and while at it, get protein from whey powder, because it's the most digestible and complete (i consumed industrial sized buckets of various toxic protein powders) and consume fish because you need that omega 3, blah blah blah". yeah, i intoxicated myself with mercury for months until it made me really sick and fish made me feel like vomiting. only thing i never tried is fucking steroids.

the ones who pretend to be superior figures through preaching empty words say shit like "it's just calories in, calories out, so simple, everyone who is fat is more stupid than me, it's below me to pay attention to such a subject" or worse, they say nothing at all and try to kill my reputation by calling me jesus and continue to play video games.

yes, i am no longer suppressing my emotions to protect your fucking ignorant egos, because for me overcoming overweight has correlated with overcoming schizoid personality disorder, since for me accepting body fat correlates with preferring hiding out in a remote cave over confronting social conflict and demanding what is mine as the conflict occurs. such as respect, in this case. so fuck you, go to school, boy.

This seems to be more about you being angry about all the extreme and stupid diets you tried, than it is about others present being particularly or stubbornly ignorant.

I agree that "calories in, calories out" is a stupid simplification that trivializes some of the struggle that certain people go through, and also threatens to enforce or enable destructive habits by promoting an ignorant relationship to nutrition. I also sympathize with the frustration of speaking to people who aren't receptive to what you know is legit wisdom that could benefit them. But i must disagree with the hostile and aggressive way you present your views right now.
 

Pyropyro

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Martial arts correspondence course, lol.

Aren't the Philippines famous for their knife and street-fighting arts? I figure there'd be mostly adults and scary looking thugs there.

Idk man. Filipino martial arts, like its sister Southeast Asian disciplines, are designed to maim and kill and are borderline cult-like for my taste. Chances are, the students there would be as you have described. I just want to have a fit bod not transform to Bourne or something :P
 

Ex-User (9086)

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Perhaps Yoga would be right for you? I tried it a few times and it's quite a workout depending on what you do. One can practice at home and go for instructions from time to time.

Also if you go to classes you'll see many women and middle-aged business people, the youth usually are too ashamed to attend yoga classes I've noticed, at least where I live, they tend to be too conscious of their bodies and afraid of admitting they aren't perfect or making mistakes in front of other people. Also Yoga doesn't have that culturally endorsed cool-factor which appeals to the young.
 

Lot

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(As for me I have trouble gaining weight.. fast metabolism)

Right there with you. I'm 5'11" and 130 lbs. When I ate a bunch of fast food while smoking pot I managed to get up to 145ish. I was 165 when I was 19 but I was working out a lot and eating a ton of bread. Now with my more plant based diet I'm stuck at a lower weight than I was in high school. Always been skinny, but never been this skinny.
 

nanook

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I've discovered the INTP Diet:

https://youtu.be/E2evC2xTNWg

Now i rest assured, that i can leave you to your own devices. My own "failure" of taking 5 years to become immune to virtually all misinformation by trying it out on my own body and meticulously tracking the results and spending most of my unemployed days on researching the subject intellectually is just evidence of my own inferiority. With your superior scientific genius, it will take you no more that another week or so, to see through the bullshit in your current misconceptions about physiology, nutrition and how the government and science are largely unaffected by commercial interests.

I can focus on other things now. How relaxing.
 

bvanevery

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I wonder if there's a martial arts that are frequented by young adults

It totally depends on where you live as to what's available. In the broader universe of course the answer is "yes", there are plenty of schools that teach adults.

or, even better, can be done with vids and right at home.

You might manage to do some productive things on your own if you've already had some training, and you have enough self-discipline to actually do things. I would advise working with a fairly heavy weapon, such as a shovel, a pitchfork, or an axe. That will give you some conditioning, will probably teach you a thing or two about movement, and if you do some target practice on dead trees you might even learn something combat useful.

If you've had some training for falling and rolling on the ground, you can improve your conditioning by practicing that by yourself. On grass first, then on cement. But, you have to be pretty competent to roll on cement without injury. Might need more training before you're up to that.
 

bvanevery

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I just want to have a fit bod not transform to Bourne or something :P

Are you sure you want martial arts then? I suppose there are martial arts that are watered down just "for fitness", and maybe even schools who primarily cater to that idea. If there's one near you, have at it. But the "martial" is in there for a reason, it's not dancing.

Suggest yoga or t'ai chi. The latter can be combat oriented, but as practiced in the USA it usually isn't. Usually just people moving around slowly, which is good exercise.
 

bvanevery

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Pyropyro

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Are you sure you want martial arts then? I suppose there are martial arts that are watered down just "for fitness", and maybe even schools who primarily cater to that idea. If there's one near you, have at it. But the "martial" is in there for a reason, it's not dancing.

Suggest yoga or t'ai chi. The latter can be combat oriented, but as practiced in the USA it usually isn't. Usually just people moving around slowly, which is good exercise.

Blar and I were talking in the context of Filipino martial arts which is less about fitness and more about maiming. For example, one of the arnis routines that I practiced in college PE involves how to break major joints and hitting the temples using a fluid motion with a stick.

There are "watered down" martial arts like kickboxing which is safer than its predecessor, muay thai.

Maybe I'll look into that yoga that Blar said and T'ai chi thing that you said.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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Tai Chi and Yoga are very similar in concept. I'm no expert but both represent the same category of "form" arts practiced with a "martial" mindset or discipline.

I don't know about Tai Chi, however there's plenty of Yoga forms that can make you sweat and will build your muscle or just help with keeping fit.
 

Pizzabeak

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Every single workout will be before and after you eat. Over time, you'll find the timing your body prefers. For an actual meal, you'll probably be somewhere in the couple/few hour range. For smaller snacks, the one hour-ish range. After workouts, eat when you're hungry.
Well yeah, I meant that it's probably better to eat a meal post workout than to eat a meal and try to work out what you ate. That could probably lead to cramps. Only thing is you probably need something to workout on in the first place. If you workout in the morning before breakfast when you wake up, you might subsist on eating an apple or so before the workout, then if it's early enough enjoy a hearty breakfast. Would also have a more proper dopamine response, feeling more like you earned the meal after the effort put in.
What matters is how long it takes your body to absorb what you consumed.
[/quote]
I am of the mind that the further removed something is from its living state - from being literally alive - the fewer nutrients you'll get from it and therefore the lower quality food it is. Every time a food is changed, processed in some way, altered, frozen, boxed, canned, etc. it loses some nutrients. Eventually they're all gone.
Arguably.
In this day and age as one of the dominant animals on the planet, we have a conscious choice. It isn't a requirement to eat animals anymore. People complain about this and that, the only thing left to do is protest the corporations responsible for the cruelty. Another part of it is that, besides the CEOs up top, the workers hired to perform the menial tasks are mostly under educated foreigners or immigrants who'll do anything for money. They don't really know any better.
 

Pizzabeak

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I don't know about losing weight. I do know about managing Irritable Bowel Syndrome. This is probably some huge disturbance of my gut fauna, when it's really bad. Empirically, the best and most obvious thing I did to improve my situation over the past year, was start eating lots of that 10% milkfat yogurt I was talking about. Primarily, the benefit is receiving probiotics all the time.

Secondarily, cutting down on coffee is important. I used to think coffee was my #1 negative for my guts. The most obvious thing that getting rid of, helps. Could see clear cause and effect. But, since then, maybe my guts have healed enough that I can handle a certain amount of coffee no problem. I've proven that I can still overdo it though. My Mom always has it available around the house when I'm visiting. I can get into a "coffee cascade," where I just keep drinking more and more. Then at some point I've done too much and I have to dry out.

I'm not sure whether it's the caffeine, the acidic compounds, or the industrial solvents and pesticides in the coffee that damages my guts. Could be all 3. If it was only the solvents and pesticides, organic coffee should address that. There was a time when I thought switching to organic coffee was a big help. Maybe I should try that idea again. I'm not clear on the cause and effect though. I do know that less coffee = better gut health. It's proven to my personal satisfaction, my empirical observation of my own body response.

I've never been a coffee drinker. However, people usually say coffee makes them run in the same manner tea does. On a basic level I would suggest it's the caffeine content or even the, so to speak, bastardized water content. No matter what, coffee remains a popular item on the menu irrespective of side effects. And once again, given a variety of factors different people will be affected differently, sometimes only up to a certain point in time.

Cutting down on sugar helps. But I don't think it's as important as the above 2 factors. I eat a fair amount of sugar still and my guts are ok. On the other hand, that 10% milkfat yogurt, and increased fat consumption in general, cuts down on the desire for sugar. So although I still perceive myself to eat a lot of sugar, I may actually eat a lot less sugar than I used to. Hard to say. Writing this while chomping on Walmart fudge mints, their knockoff of Girl Scout thin mints. Only good product that company makes. Even then "good" is relative, I'm sure there's plenty of unnatural junk in these cheap cookies. But I don't think they're hurting me any.
I think in me so far sugar just affects my energy. If I overdose on it the blood in my head feels thinner, like I can feel the sugar crystallizing it. Once I get too much I usually get one pimple that goes away after two days then during that period no matter how much more I get I don't get anymore pimples. But my overall energy could get zapped and I might go to bed early. If you could fill your diet with other properly satiating things you could not have the room or time for sugar snacks.
The idea is those unnatural things make the overall process cheaper and more abundant. Last I had checked a lot of them were truly untested and could lead to a quicker development of cancer.
I cut down on sugar and carbs to protect my brain. There's a school of thought that alzheimer's is diabetes of the brain. I think it probably also has a beneficial effect on my guts. It isn't as noticeable as consuming yogurt or cutting down coffee though.

I think healthy guts probably have something to do with weight gain, as well as preventing other diseases. I have books that say so. I just can't remember the details, as I've been doing what's operationally important to me, and getting some observable results.

I was strongly motivated in this, because when I make dietary mistakes, I experience pain. I don't just gain weight and look bad or something. I actually feel lousy. Too bad fat people don't have a feedback mechanism like that.
I haven't really noticed that. I don't know the last time my diets were quantitatively bad. Nowadays they say gut flora is more important than we thought, even influencing mental conditions such as autism; etc.
So I will continue with my pitch that 10% milkfat yogurt solves some of the problems.

Then of course the other pitch from the books, is that you need to eat FAT, not carbs and sugars. Personally, I wouldn't go to the extreme of eliminating carbs. I tried it, and within about a week, I started feeling pretty bad. Like, I really need to eat some carbs. Quite beyond jonesing for them, I felt like I was malnourished and really missing something. So I have adopted a "fat emphasizing" diet. I still eat carbs. But I won't usually eat something that's only a carb. For instance, peanuts will give you carbs, protein, and fat, not just carbs. Beans will give you carbs and protein. I don't eat sides like rice or bread for the most part anymore. Recently I relented and will eat a small bit of rice with cuisine that typically calls for it, like Chinese or Thai food. But no more. If a waiter asks if I want bread before dinner, I say no. If Mom wants to buy some bread when I visit, I make it clear that she's going to be eating most or all of it. So that hopefully she won't buy some big expensive loaf that just petrifies.
People who say they have eliminated carbs say they feel like shit the first week or so of no carbs. I could only imagine it's part of the normal process of adjusting to a diet. If people were to switch to vegan right now, they would also say they feel like shit during that week and want to go back. Beyond that, they may end up feeling better once it's sustained.
As far as the bread stuff goes it does take a tremendous amount of willpower at first, like quitting cigarettes if that's what you want to do. Beyond the first week or so it becomes easier to just say no.

I've gone through periods of eating no sugar, i.e. sweets, desserts, at all. Didn't substitute fruit either. Books say, sugar is sugar. Fructose isn't magically better for you than sucrose. It's quite possible to remove a sweet tooth, simply by making sure to keep stuffing down enough fat. Fat makes the sugar craving go away, has to do with glycogen levels.

However nowadays I do eat some fruit, and will do it in preference to eating something "worse", like those mint cookies I just mentioned. I think the fruit tends to provide other nutritional benefits that outweigh the sugar you're taking in. As long as you're not going crazy on fruit. The point is, eating fruit doesn't get you off the hook. It isn't some consequence free food. But, it's a good tool for avoiding something worse. I definitely think eating several mandarin oranges is better than eating the box of cookies I'm currently consuming.
Well eating those, particularly fruit, is probably better than other sources of those sugars, mostly available in the forms of candy; etc, which could also contain harmful levels of food colorings or other unnatural components. Same goes for that bag of chips with its salts or what have you. At the end of the day it's probably better to just snack on carrots and celery. If you are feeling dehydrated and need water and tired and need some sugar you're probably alright to just eat some fruit and get that.
 

Pizzabeak

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Carbs are just long chain sugars for those who aren't aware.
That's an interesting way of putting it but it might be better to say that sugars are just shorter sections of carbs. That's only because what is involved in the formation of those, namely, carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. Nutritionally, when speaking of carbs or carbohydrates it's generally understood that what is being talked about are foods contributing to a high intake of carbs such as breads, pastas, and other starchy materials. Basically, anything not majorly meat or vegetables although fruits and veggies are known to have a fair share of carbs. So, looking at nutrition facts labels the sugars count is a part of the carbs - if for example it says 5G sugars then 15G carbohydrates, five of those fifteen are the sugars.
The other stuff is the other stuff. Meats being mostly protein strands and fruits sugars & fibers (and carbs), carb oriented food is typically mostly air (partly due to them being C and O). That's the bread like and pasta starchy kind of stuff. If you look at beans; etc there's some carb there but they are known for being a popular source of protein. Chips, breads, and snack cakes are besides the sugars mostly air, and pastas as well to a lesser extent. Also why the carb oriented foods can result in the user feeling a bloated sensation after consumption.
The key here is why a controlled amount of these carb foods can take the form as an ideal workout supplement/pre or post meal, and have a remarkable effect on the body. Certainly not an original part of man's repertoire but irrespective of the essential nutrients and sugars it can be mostly optional. But, when cutting refined sugars out the diet and such it isn't entirely necessary to cut carbs as well.


- what about people who evolved in tropical environments who had access to pineapples, bananas, mangoes, etc? That's plenty of fructose, and they don't have real winters there.
How well do the original fruits and veggies compare to our domesticated and engineered variety? Phenotypically different but how about nutritionally. Sure you can say they are a marvel from modern human ingenuity for allowing more food to be available but at what cost. The original carrot tended to be small with not that much meat on it but look at a modern carrot and it's a full single serving snack. This would have changed eating habits, whether it suits the modern era is still up for grabs. It's just a USA standard. Generally, you don't really need that much food but our modern system is designed around schedules. Back then, you could probably take a handful or so of some smaller fruits and subsist off those for the day or even two. But it's complex and depends on your role.
 

Sinny91

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I've lost weight the last few months. Disappointed over the how much tho.. last time before tonight that I weighed myself - about a year ago, I weighed 11st and what looked like a few pounds (I didn't look closely)...

But I got on them tonight and I'm only just shy of 11st.
I find that strange cuz it looks like I've lost a lot more.

I think my waist has gone back to about 32 inches.
So I'm confused as to where all this fat is, and why it hasn't gone anywhere.

I'm just shy of 5ft'4 ... I have no idea what my ideal weight should be. I think I'll have to have a look.
 

bvanevery

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Losing weight is not my problem, but in your shoes, I'd put the "fat does not make you fat, carbs and sugars make you fat" theory to the empirical test.
 

Sinny91

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I remember being 8st in 2012... Ugh, if this is what growing-up entails.. I dont wanna get old.
 

Nofriends

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You should try out intermittent fasting, there is some evidence which suggests it improves cognitive function. If you are interested do not eat food for two days each week, the key is not to gorge yourself on the food after each 24-hour session, just eat a normal/balanced meal.

Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday (don't eat)
Thursday
Friday
Saturday (don't eat)
Sunday
 

ruminator

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Are you fat? I think I might be getting fat... Suggestions!?

I noticed that when I tried to do long-term diet modifications I would end up binge eating on cheat days. What works better for me is some sort of intermittent fasting. Like, only eat one meal a day (for the rest of the day just tea and maybe a snack). Then I can have my one meal, satisfy myself, and not feel deprived. It also for some reason makes me less hungry, decreases my appetite.

Another idea I never tried is if you are going to diet, to diet every other day. It seems dumb at first but if you think about it, it makes sense. You won't miss normal food because you'll still get it. AND it is still an overall decrease (for example in one month you'll decrease 15 days rather than all 30). *I never tried this though, just heard about it

Last, I gave up white carbs (except for dessert every now and then) because they trigger an insulin thing
 

bvanevery

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You should try out intermittent fasting, there is some evidence which suggests it improves cognitive function.

I'm curious what their metrics for that are? Like, they took starving people to a park, and measured the intensity of their visual tracking of squirrels...

Seriously, what kind of cognitive function is it supposed to improve? 'Cuz if it could make me an order of magnitude more productive as computer programmer, I'd try it. As is, I seriously doubt anything in the world would improve my cognitive function there. I'm probably at the top of my game, all neurons firing. At least under the "use it or lose it" theory I seriously doubt I'm ever going to get any degenerative brain disease.

I think I need a miracle diet that increases my sexual desirability and ability to charm ladies' pants off, LOL. Brain's doin' alright.
 

Pizzabeak

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You should try out intermittent fasting, there is some evidence which suggests it improves cognitive function. If you are interested do not eat food for two days each week, the key is not to gorge yourself on the food after each 24-hour session, just eat a normal/balanced meal.

Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday (don't eat)
Thursday
Friday
Saturday (don't eat)
Sunday

I want to do something like that, I was thinking vegan two or three days out the week or fast. If began this would taper off into a full, permanent routine while I still prepare to adopt veganism. But I would still have to fast. The issue is ignoring a sustained hunger which can be influential, which can be trained over time. If it wouldn't be an issue then this would provide more energy and clarity for cognitive focusing on activities.

I noticed that when I tried to do long-term diet modifications I would end up binge eating on cheat days. What works better for me is some sort of intermittent fasting. Like, only eat one meal a day (for the rest of the day just tea and maybe a snack). Then I can have my one meal, satisfy myself, and not feel deprived. It also for some reason makes me less hungry, decreases my appetite.
I tried that but it depends on when the meals are had. If you wait too long then it makes more sense to not eat and to just wait the next day for breakfast or something. Plus other substances or snacks and activities could have a bearing on when you should eat that day, like if you drink that may prevent your hunger for a few hours then you won't have dinner by the usual time; etc

Another idea I never tried is if you are going to diet, to diet every other day. It seems dumb at first but if you think about it, it makes sense. You won't miss normal food because you'll still get it. AND it is still an overall decrease (for example in one month you'll decrease 15 days rather than all 30). *I never tried this though, just heard about it
Oh, that kind of goes in the same category. I wasn't sure how good of an idea it was to have the same thing everyday so some variety was needed. But it would also largely depend on beliefs because as far as any normal food; etc then someone may no believe to consume it.

Last, I gave up white carbs (except for dessert every now and then) because they trigger an insulin thing
I heard eating carbs like that increases blood sugar by manifolds. Apparently it isn't worth it. But, I thought any carbs could be useful in certain bodybuilding regimes which aren't that common in everyday life.

I'm curious what their metrics for that are? Like, they took starving people to a park, and measured the intensity of their visual tracking of squirrels...

Seriously, what kind of cognitive function is it supposed to improve? 'Cuz if it could make me an order of magnitude more productive as computer programmer, I'd try it. As is, I seriously doubt anything in the world would improve my cognitive function there. I'm probably at the top of my game, all neurons firing. At least under the "use it or lose it" theory I seriously doubt I'm ever going to get any degenerative brain disease.

I guess skipping meals or not eating can increase concentration on the task up until a point. Once it's full realized you have to ignore the hunger. Then, it's literally just supposed to prevent distractions so you don't do something else while you're doing that. (Do you eat while you program?) I'm sure it isn't unheard of but it's hard. A lot of the times though not eating saps your energy so you have to eat to get more energy to do work. But if you don't eat there's more motivation.
 
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