fat

[Pizzabeak]

Are you fat? I think I might be getting fat... Suggestions!?

 

[cheese]

Ambiguous OP. Are you wanting to get fatter, and looking to fat people for advice? Or asking them what not to do?

 

[Pizzabeak]

Asking what to do to prevent fat and, while we're at it, while in that transition, I suppose, then, what not to do. I've always been kind of small or medium but never sure if I was skinny or skinny-fat. I'm not sure if I'm doing the right exercise to burn the fat or just gaining muscle, muscle over the fat. Furthermore, I think all my muscle is turning into fat. Must be partially diet related. I can't just completely fast because sometimes not eating can actually make you fatter as well.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Maybe if you cut dairy and wheat and sweets, that will take care of the calorie excess. Eating will be a bit of a challenge and you will be forced to rethink, which creates a buffer against stupid decisions. Replace dairy and wheat with more vegetables and poultry. Also add oats if you don't consume that regularly. There are further things you could eliminate, like corn and legumes. They aren't super nutrient dense or healthy. As long as you get some protein, some good fats and plenty of micro-nutrients, you are on the right track. The most crucial and beneficial foods are what our ancestors consumed: Small game-ish meat, nuts, fruits and vegetables. I believe it helps if you view these diet alterations not only as a means of reducing calory intake but also as treating your bodily systems better overall. There are many benefits beyond weight reulation.

If you like sweets you can make your own using stevia instead of sugar.

Fasting for a few days can be good, but you should not starve your body. IIRC you are doing strength exercises? Losing muscle and gaining fat despite that would indicate something quite alarming i guess. Overall i'd urge you to seek medical attention if your changes in physique aren't a response to any lifestyle changes and especially if they are accompanied by mood changes.

Perhaps too basic suggestions to be of use.

 

[sammael]

I recommend Tim Ferriss's book The 4 - Hour Body. It covers fat loss, adding muscle, and a bunch of other interesting stuff (15-minute female orgasm anyone?). The methods are straightforward, efficient, minimalist, and easy to understand and implement, and it's an entertaining read to boot.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I don't do dairy anymore, no yogurt or milks or anything, except for my weakness which is cookies, i.e. butter. And those are used sparingly. I had to stop baking them and now just receive them. It can be more a question of environment and associations at that point.
If I can remember, a serving of oats usually kept me occupied until the next meal period. I've been interested in going mostly fruits/veggies but I'll have to jack up the portion sizes so they satisfy instead of seeming like a side helping of a meal. But I guess there the point would be to provide sufficient energy for the rest of the day.

I think I need to work on my fats. I used to be fine with chewing the fat off a steak but I am pretty sure I want to cut down my meat consumption and possibly wholly eliminate it. If that doesn't work out then I'd be fine with getting fat from animal meat but there might be more decent replacements. I get some fat from nuts but those are too distracting a food, in some ways. If they end up being more helpful than I think then I could stick with them. I'm mostly unimpressed with current USA food laws and standard diets from what I understand of them and am constantly trying to find replacement ingredients. Some components are unusually necessary though, in order for the product to resemble what we are all familiar with.

Not sure about the strength training but I would hope the diet complements something like that. Maybe I'm eating more than usual because of the burned calories. But I would fear my body isn't burning enough. It seems we would be at a stalemate.

I liked legumes but they might not be doing the trick. They might work best as a complement rather than a bulk indulgence. My main goal would be to have successful enough meals at breakfast then maybe a lunch which would keep me from craving a meal at evening, so I could possibly follow up with a light course or just a dessert. Then, a hunger occurring multiple times a day would not distract or allow breaks from important things that need to be done.

If sufficiently active this could mostly be put on the backburner.

 

[Tannhauser]

No need to get fancy. Just start cutting down on the sugar and start building a routine for exercise.

I'm eating a paleo-ish diet. The problem there – especially if you are exercising a lot – is not so much getting fat as it is getting enough calories. I do stuff like drinking olive oil to keep my weight up.

 

[The Gopher]

No need to get fancy. Just start cutting down on the sugar and start building a routine for exercise.

I agree. People often start cutting down on food and exercising intensely at the same time. Then they collapse and binge eat/stop exercising. If you cut down on sugar/all/some the food you shouldn't be eating. After a few weeks when that's routine you can slowly start building up exercising. Make it all the new normal slowly, don't go from nothing to everything.

Consistency/consistent improvement is best. That's where the idea not eating makes people fat comes from. They don't eat then binge eat. (Not eating by it's self will never make you fat unless you get calories through the air)

 

[Tannhauser]

I agree. People often start cutting down on food and exercising intensely at the same time. Then they collapse and binge eat/stop exercising. If you cut down on sugar/all/some the food you shouldn't be eating. After a few weeks when that's routine you can slowly start building up exercising. Make it all the new normal slowly, don't go from nothing to everything.

Consistency/consistent improvement is best. That's where the idea not eating makes people fat comes from. They don't eat then binge eat. (Not eating by it's self will never make you fat unless you get calories through the air)

Yes. I think you summed it up very well. It's all about slowly changing one's general lifestyle, not finding some quick fix.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Alright. I don't get that much sugar. So that isn't the concern, at all really.
I think the concern is whether the exercises are useful or not. That and I'm stuck deciding between my ideal body. Not sure if I want to gain some bulk or keep at my steady size.
But it seems like any improvements I do make are immediately displaced the next day. I need to keep them.

 

[Tannhauser]

Well, bulking and getting less fat at the same time isn't gonna work. To achieve both, you'll have to start with doing strength training while eating as much protein and calories as you can (this will make you fatter), and then later losing the fat by cutting down on the calories.

 

[Happy]

Well, bulking and getting less fat at the same time isn't gonna work. To achieve both, you'll have to start with doing strength training while eating as much protein and calories as you can (this will make you fatter), and then later losing the fat by cutting down on the calories.

There's mixed opinions on this. I'm of the opinion that it's possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, but you can't expect to make fast progress in either. You also have to establish a pretty strict balance.

 

[Pizzabeak]

You have to turn it into muscle before it turns fat. Otherwise you'll just get fat.
I think another reason is getting older. I'm just getting fatter the older I get. Some people get slim when they get old though.

 

[Tannhauser]

There's mixed opinions on this. I'm of the opinion that it's possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, but you can't expect to make fast progress in either. You also have to establish a pretty strict balance.

Sure, I guess it depends on what one means by "bulking". It will be possible to gain some muscle, and one will get stronger, but the gain in volume will be minimal.

 

[Happy]

Sure, I guess it depends on what one means by "bulking". It will be possible to gain some muscle, and one will get stronger, but the gain in volume will be minimal.

Not necessarily. But it takes knowledge and discipline to get it right. Also, genetics.

 

[bvanevery]

Minimize sugars and carbs. Significantly increase fat consumption. Contrary to popular belief, eating fat does not make you fat. Eating carbs makes you fat, because it changes your insulin resistance. The stuff about saturated fat and cholesterol being bad for you is also hogwash. Primary source for these opinions: books by Dr. Pearlmutter such as "Wheat Belly" and "Grain Brain".

Probiotics, aka yogurt, should also help your cause. I like the Cabot 10% milkfat yogurt. It's advertized as a sour cream replacement, although frankly, you don't need to replace sour cream for any reason. People believe they do though. Anyways, what you end up with is something with the nutritional value of cheese, in terms of protein and fat, that only costs $2/lb. at Walmart! I eat it plain, no sugar. Like I said it's pretty close to cheese.

 

[Pizzabeak]

But dairy makes me feel weird so I try not to eat much. Yogurt might be different. If I went down that route I would hope to have more yogurt with granola in it but not sure if I'm crazy enough about it.
I need carbs because I'm trying to get cut. They're supposedly good to work out on, I try not to eat them then let them idle.

 

[Yellow]

Just because I have to, I'm going to start with the obligatory: "muscle doesn't turn into fat, and muscle doesn't pile on top of fat".

I assume that you, like the rest of us, age at a rate of one year per year. As you make your annual march toward the grave, your metabolism slows. Unfortunately, diet doesn't always follow right away.

Losing weight (or maintaining a healthy weight), despite the common claim to the contrary, is more complicated than "fewer calories in than out". Because calories aren't the objective measurements we're lead to believe.

Think about a steak. A cooked steak is more usable for the body. The proteins have been broken down so that we can recognize and utilize them. A raw steak is going to be mostly waste, because we can't glean everything we need (especially the fat) before it's eliminated. And yet, the steak is assumed to have the same number of calories raw or cooked. It's insane. Same for vegetables, fruit, and don't get me started on grain.

We start our lives with the most calorie-ready food imaginable (for a human): breast milk. We graduate on to mushy food. Again, those calories are incredibly available. As we age, our diet becomes more complex, and frankly, less and less digestible.

The only problem is, in modern society, there's a limit to how not-digestable our food gets. As you can imagine, the more "addictive" foods are the easiest for our bodies to get at. They let us efficiently access and store the calories. This makes us fat. We aren't supposed to have it so easy when we're in our prime adulthood. We should be out foraging and saving the easy foods for our children (and the toothless elderly).

Alas, that means the solution is to make eating harder on yourself. The diets that leave you hungry aren't going to work in the long run. Especially if you have digestive issues, your body is crying out for a shit-ton (literally!) of fiber. Vegetables, whole and sprouted grains (by "whole grain", I mean like a handful of oats), some fruit (still a bit on the easy side, though). Throw in some seafood, meat, nuts, and berries from time to time.

You don't need dairy anymore. As a rule, once you grow in your first adult tooth, it's probably time to graduate to complex dairies like cheese and yogurt, and by the time they've all grown in, you should probably quit dairy altogether.

It's similar with salt and sugar. Children are wired to crave salty and sweet foods because they need to load up on calories and minerals. Those cravings are supposed to fade after puberty, but we infantalize our diets so extremely that some of us never shed that addiction.

Though don't take this as meaning you shouldn't totally eat whatever you want from time to time. We need those little binges of easy food several days a year to keep our weight, energy, and morale up.

If you want to get "cut", you need a good foundation. Any nutritionist (not trying to sell you something) will tell you that first-world diets, even among the health-conscious, contains more than enough protein and carbs to accomplish healthy workout goals. You don't need gimmicks, shakes, or powders. A person just needs to eat healthy and train at a reasonable pace.

 

[Intolerable]

Carbs do indeed process much faster than solid fats do. The key word here is processing.

If the fat on say your steak exists you should consume it. Saturated fats are a different animal you should avoid.

Tougher food requires more work which slows your consumption and reduces the speed at which these foods are digested. This allows your body to consume them as it naturally would which not only reduces risks for diabetes and obesity but also reduces inflammation which is the leading risk factor for cancer.

Most food you buy has a fiber percent on it. For cereals and spreads this is going to favor the nutty kind.

I also live by the 2/3rds greens rule. That means no matter what I am interested in eating ( pizza, potato, steak, fish, etc ) I always have 2/3rds greens on my plate to accompany it.

Last point do not drink your calories. This is the major one for most people. Drinking calories is a very easy thing to do. I personally limit my sugar to oz ratio of 5 grams of sugar per 12 oz of water. You could go lower than that but at 5:12 you'll still have a taste and its a helluva lot better than the 39:12 you get from drinking cola.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Oh yeah. I meant my muscle is getting built over fat instead of the fat getting burned and replaced by muscle.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Carbs do indeed process much faster than solid fats do. The key word here is processing.

If the fat on say your steak exists you should consume it. Saturated fats are a different animal you should avoid.

Tougher food requires more work which slows your consumption and reduces the speed at which these foods are digested. This allows your body to consume them as it naturally would which not only reduces risks for diabetes and obesity but also reduces inflammation which is the leading risk factor for cancer.

Most food you buy has a fiber percent on it. For cereals and spreads this is going to favor the nutty kind.

I also live by the 2/3rds greens rule. That means no matter what I am interested in eating ( pizza, potato, steak, fish, etc ) I always have 2/3rds greens on my plate to accompany it.

Last point do not drink your calories. This is the major one for most people. Drinking calories is a very easy thing to do. I personally limit my sugar to oz ratio of 5 grams of sugar per 12 oz of water. You could go lower than that but at 5:12 you'll still have a taste and its a helluva lot better than the 39:12 you get from drinking cola.

I don't drink soda. Rarely juice nowadays, since they are mostly sugar and carbs. On the other hand I can't be certain how well an exclusive water diet is doing me.
But presume that someone wishes to eliminate whole meats from diet. What would be a good source of fat? Nuts are good but they're mostly saturated fat. I would also like to eliminate fish as a source.

So take Joe Rogan for example. An ex fighter with a short, decent career. Pretty much quit while he was ahead but still contributes to the community. Fighting as well as other contact sports such as football can result in serious head damage and concussions - the fewer the better. So he quit the games to get less of that. He probably still has some though, but they aren't accumulating.

So even though he quit that he still might face occasional residual effects... But you can certainly say none is better than some in the first place? The less the better? Fewer chance, for those sources at least, to develop cancers, or other cognitive deficiencies.

 

[Intolerable]

I don't drink soda. Rarely juice nowadays, since they are mostly sugar and carbs. On the other hand I can't be certain how well an exclusive water diet is doing me.
But presume that someone wishes to eliminate whole meats from diet. What would be a good source of fat? Nuts are good but they're mostly saturated fat. I would also like to eliminate fish as a source.

We have consumed water for a very, very long time. So I wouldn't worry about your water to caloric intake with regards to drinking. You can overdo water intake but it's highly unlikely you'll want to.

I should have been clearer on the saturated fats. Here is a good article on them.

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/healthy-eating/choosing-healthy-fats.htm

So take Joe Rogan for example. An ex fighter with a short, decent career. Pretty much quit while he was ahead but still contributes to the community. Fighting as well as other contact sports such as football can result in serious head damage and concussions - the fewer the better. So he quit the games to get less of that. He probably still has some though, but they aren't accumulating.

So even though he quit that he still might face occasional residual effects... But you can certainly say none is better than some in the first place? The less the better? Fewer chance, for those sources at least, to develop cancers, or other cognitive deficiencies.

Insofar as how inflammation is related to cancer see this:

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk...eat-the-link-between-inflammation-and-cancer/

It's the equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb on your enemy. Your enemy will be nuked but so will the environment it existed in. Call on it too many times and the damage is severe enough to allow for cancer to grow.

How often is anyone's guess but the general rule of thumb should be to avoid inflammation wherever you can.

 

[Pizzabeak]

We have consumed water for a very, very long time. So I wouldn't worry about your water to caloric intake with regards to drinking. You can overdo water intake but it's highly unlikely you'll want to.

I should have been clearer on the saturated fats. Here is a good article on them.

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/healthy-eating/choosing-healthy-fats.htm

I'm sure water is good but you perhaps at least want to do something with it. As I've said I'm mostly concerned with an optimal diet so as to attain a maximum efficiency. This is also why I'm trying to be more active again to see how well it works, rather than just eating as efficiently (as far as my own body and physiology are concerned) as possible then just hanging out on it.

But my concern with too much water is the poisons they add to it. Given the probable ppms some, of course, is fine but I would be hesitant to go too far beyond it, and on a daily basis at that. Also why I might want to cut down on my tea. However, in humans, I think it has yet to be seen how far the cognitive deficiencies from these added poisons have an effect. I've always feared it would be so slow so as to be unnoticeable, so that the subject literally cannot notice how retarded they have become while meanwhile all else seems typical. They would only suspect that any differences in behavior they notice are due to getting more wise or mature.

Of course in certain places it may not be much of a concern (look at Flint, Michigan). Plus bodies can probably even benefit a little from tiny amounts of extra elements or impurities contained in, not necessarily added, to the water.

Insofar as how inflammation is related to cancer see this:

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk...eat-the-link-between-inflammation-and-cancer/

It's the equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb on your enemy. Your enemy will be nuked but so will the environment it existed in. Call on it too many times and the damage is severe enough to allow for cancer to grow.

How often is anyone's guess but the general rule of thumb should be to avoid inflammation wherever you can.

I've stopped craving sugar since I was a kid, normally kids consume large amounts of it growing up in candy (Halloween) or at birthday parties with cupcakes; etc. I've never like frosting or cream (whipped cream is gross) so thank God for that. Whenever I would get a sugar frosting cookie I would scrape it off then just eat the bread part, haha. But now, we all know how useless the sugars can be. Another similar example is that of Happy Meals at fast food joints. Wouldn't it be better if your body never had any of that? But now it's too late, you just have to make sure not to have any more. You can still probably get cancer from stuff you ate years ago, too. So now the battle is just avoiding it and substituting it with anti-cancer foods.

When deciding to stop eating meat, I've looked at it like this. I'm around twenty years old, and during those years I've had plenty of pizzas. But now, given all this, it would be sensible to call it quits, like stop smoking cigarettes. Twenty years is arguably enough, and you shouldn't miss it too much. After a lengthy adjustment period your new diet should provide plenty of satisfaction. But what only remains is to see how mentally beneficial the new diet actually is. Or, besides preserving health, it could just be completely neutral, with the added plus of keeping weight in check.

 

[crippli]

When I feel like i'm getting fat. As is a no go. I have yet to outgrow a clothing item since I was maybe 13-14. I tend to eat mostly sweets, and go obsessively into some interest and keep at at day and night. Physical. What I'm doing is feeding my brain, but not my body. Quickly enough, there is little left but skin and bone.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Yeah, I like those. I'm not sure if you can do those whenever or only during certain bursts. I should try them more often.

 

[Pizzabeak]

When I feel like i'm getting fat. As is a no go. I have yet to outgrow a clothing item since I was maybe 13-14. I tend to eat mostly sweets, and go obsessively into some interest and keep at at day and night. Physical. What I'm doing is feeding my brain, but not my body. Quickly enough, there is little left but skin and bone.

what kind of sweets do you prefer? another thing is to get in the right mindset. i suppose deadlines help to an extent? but you have to make it the most important thing of the moment, forgoing sleep, and other entertainments. but, you're just tricking yourself into believing it's the most important then. you are easily missing out on other life opportunities while in that mode (depending, i suppose, on the time of the day). but it all evens out anyway.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I recommend Tim Ferriss's book The 4 - Hour Body. It covers fat loss, adding muscle, and a bunch of other interesting stuff (15-minute female orgasm anyone?). The methods are straightforward, efficient, minimalist, and easy to understand and implement, and it's an entertaining read to boot.

Cool - got a pdf link?

 

[bvanevery]

But dairy makes me feel weird so I try not to eat much. Yogurt might be different.

If you have lactose issues, you may not have a problem with yogurt because the active cultures eat all the lactose, to make the yogurt. Hard cheeses also shouldn't be a problem IIRC, for similar reasons. Soft cheeses I believe still have lactose and would be a problem, if that is indeed your problem. People often have ideas about dairy, it's important to go with observable reality and not just ideas. Some people really have bad experiences with dairy. Others are just listening to dietary fads, negative words in their ear. Depends on your genetics and ancestry. I think my ancestors drank a lot of milk.

If I went down that route I would hope to have more yogurt with granola in it but not sure if I'm crazy enough about it.

Granola is carbs and sugar, the exact things you should be avoiding.

Try going sour, as in raita / tziki. Basically, throw cucumber, lemon, and a little salt in your yogurt. Eventually though, you may acquire a taste for eating the high fat stuff plain. Low fat stuff tastes boring, the high fat really does change the flavor. Same reason people eat cheese.

I need carbs because I'm trying to get cut. They're supposedly good to work out on, I try not to eat them then let them idle.

Carbs may be needed to do anaerobic exercise, i.e. weightlifting. At least that's what I learned when I did it 20 years ago. But I don't know what anybody's science currently says. You shouldn't need carbs to do aerobic exercise, i.e. running, tae bo. Personally I'm not really seeing why 'cut' should be anyone's life goal. Healthy weight and good physical condition are fine. Of course I've got more of a martial arts + yoga attitude about what is good to do with one's body.

 

[bvanevery]

Saturated fats are a different animal you should avoid.

This is a myth, unfortunately widely supported by previous US government brainwashing. There may still be some good reasons not to eat lots of red meat though. The saturated fat is not responsible for the artery damage though.

 

[Pizzabeak]

If you have lactose issues, you may not have a problem with yogurt because the active cultures eat all the lactose, to make the yogurt. Hard cheeses also shouldn't be a problem IIRC, for similar reasons. Soft cheeses I believe still have lactose and would be a problem, if that is indeed your problem. People often have ideas about dairy, it's important to go with observable reality and not just ideas. Some people really have bad experiences with dairy. Others are just listening to dietary fads, negative words in their ear. Depends on your genetics and ancestry. I think my ancestors drank a lot of milk.

Not sure if it's my issue.
I drank a shit ton of milk growing up because we had cereal for breakfast a lot. Then around my teens I stopped having cereal for breakfast so my milk intake decreased eventually to the point of nil. So if I were to have some intolerance to lactose I may have to build it up again.
But overall I agree, I think Asians are known for having little tolerance for lactose because their ancestors didn't drink much.
The only dairy I get nowadays is pizzas. When I can I make sure the cheese is selected nicely. The cheese that is chosen heavily affects the overall texture of the pizza.
But again, I think my main concern, and if it turns out false that is good, but it’s the poisons they add to the dairy, whether that be cows treated with hormones or what have you. Now, I don’t really know where all that comes from in the industry but if they make cheese out of the same milk that comes from those cows then I would be concerned (mad cow disease). Most commercial cheese that you find in the grocery stores are actually part wood. Cheaper processes and ingredients to save money for the company probably but usually health or nutrients are compromised..

Granola is carbs and sugar, the exact things you should be avoiding.

Try going sour, as in raita / tziki. Basically, throw cucumber, lemon, and a little salt in your yogurt. Eventually though, you may acquire a taste for eating the high fat stuff plain. Low fat stuff tastes boring, the high fat really does change the flavor. Same reason people eat cheese.

I've only had granola in yogurt once or twice and it tasted alright as a breakfast/snack. I wouldn't go out of my way to acquire those ingredients.
If the time ever comes I should be eager to check out the raita/tziki stuff though I guess...

Carbs may be needed to do anaerobic exercise, i.e. weightlifting. At least that's what I learned when I did it 20 years ago. But I don't know what anybody's science currently says. You shouldn't need carbs to do aerobic exercise, i.e. running, tae bo. Personally I'm not really seeing why 'cut' should be anyone's life goal. Healthy weight and good physical condition are fine. Of course I've got more of a martial arts + yoga attitude about what is good to do with one's body.

No, I couldn't imagine doing aerobics off carbs. From my experience it tends to make one feel bloated, hence why they say no heavy consumption of carbs after 6 or 7 o' clock. I think the main idea is taking all the extra fat from the carbs and fueling the muscle building process quicker.
Cut is more for recreation. It depends on the style and all that but it looks like some martial artists (with a Bruce Lee type frame at least) or yoga people are more on the cut side, well, it's more like lean with some emphasis on cut.

 

[bvanevery]

My dad thought he had lactose issues. Like he thought pizza gave him a problem, so he blamed the cheese. Now he believes it was the wheat! I don't know what's actually true with him. But you did mention lots of cereal with milk. Key word is CEREAL, don't rule that out.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Well I never really had problems with the cereals for breakfast. Young metabolism and all that. Certainly can't fully rule it out I suppose. If I recall, oats never really made me feel weird. I am fairly certain it's the dairy... Although I'll keep an extra look out on it from now on. It's just now that you mentioned it, but I can't personally recall ever being too averse to wheat before.

 

[Intolerable]

I'm sure water is good but you perhaps at least want to do something with it. As I've said I'm mostly concerned with an optimal diet so as to attain a maximum efficiency. This is also why I'm trying to be more active again to see how well it works, rather than just eating as efficiently (as far as my own body and physiology are concerned) as possible then just hanging out on it.

But my concern with too much water is the poisons they add to it. Given the probable ppms some, of course, is fine but I would be hesitant to go too far beyond it, and on a daily basis at that. Also why I might want to cut down on my tea. However, in humans, I think it has yet to be seen how far the cognitive deficiencies from these added poisons have an effect. I've always feared it would be so slow so as to be unnoticeable, so that the subject literally cannot notice how retarded they have become while meanwhile all else seems typical. They would only suspect that any differences in behavior they notice are due to getting more wise or mature.

Of course in certain places it may not be much of a concern (look at Flint, Michigan). Plus bodies can probably even benefit a little from tiny amounts of extra elements or impurities contained in, not necessarily added, to the water.

Too much thought in the water. If water supplies bother you just buy bottled where totally filtered water is accessible. Clean, clear, 100% water. Just to be sure you aren't getting extra crap.

Yeah it's a bit of a mixed bag. Some things are totally harmless to you in say, ground water. A bit more calcium for example from hard water is reasonable. The issue in Michigan is extraordinary.

I've stopped craving sugar since I was a kid, normally kids consume large amounts of it growing up in candy (Halloween) or at birthday parties with cupcakes; etc. I've never like frosting or cream (whipped cream is gross) so thank God for that. Whenever I would get a sugar frosting cookie I would scrape it off then just eat the bread part, haha. But now, we all know how useless the sugars can be. Another similar example is that of Happy Meals at fast food joints. Wouldn't it be better if your body never had any of that? But now it's too late, you just have to make sure not to have any more. You can still probably get cancer from stuff you ate years ago, too. So now the battle is just avoiding it and substituting it with anti-cancer foods.

Added sugars is a bit more insidious than just the frosted stuff. Bread, jarred sauces, granola bars / cereals are loaded with sugar. Obviously anything fast food is going to be loaded with sugar, too. Even the happy meals!

The best added sugars to consume are the kind that will kill your sweet tooth quickly. For example a piece of dark chocolate is a lot healthier than a box of carbs ( and some added sugar ). For the simple reason that the dark chocolate gets to the craving right away. The box of carbs while having much less sugar per serving is going to take a lot of consuming to satisfy the brain. It winds up being more added sugar consumed and probably way more carbs, too.

When deciding to stop eating meat, I've looked at it like this. I'm around twenty years old, and during those years I've had plenty of pizzas. But now, given all this, it would be sensible to call it quits, like stop smoking cigarettes. Twenty years is arguably enough, and you shouldn't miss it too much. After a lengthy adjustment period your new diet should provide plenty of satisfaction. But what only remains is to see how mentally beneficial the new diet actually is. Or, besides preserving health, it could just be completely neutral, with the added plus of keeping weight in check.

The damage we do in childhood really depends. How extensive it was and where it was. Gut leakage is really only a thing adults deal with. It's an age-related problem. So eating horrible shit as an adult is much worse for you than eating it as a child.

Most of the time people go into their late 20s, even late 30s eating the kind of stuff they ate as kids and wind up hitting a brick wall. If it isn't the IBS it's the leaky ass, fat or the doctor telling them to get it under control.

I would say you're fine to stop now. I don't think pizza I ate in my teenage years has stuck around in any capacity.

Mind, even as an old man you can still have pizza. Just not all that often. Your appetite shrinks and so it's important to stick to high fiber, high nutrition foods like greens and meat occasionally. Definitely avoid beer.

 

[Brontosaurie]

The damage we do in childhood really depends. How extensive it was and where it was. Gut leakage is really only a thing adults deal with. It's an age-related problem. So eating horrible shit as an adult is much worse for you than eating it as a child.

Most of the time people go into their late 20s, even late 30s eating the kind of stuff they ate as kids and wind up hitting a brick wall. If it isn't the IBS it's the leaky ass, fat or the doctor telling them to get it under control.

I would say you're fine to stop now. I don't think pizza I ate in my teenage years has stuck around in any capacity.

Mind, even as an old man you can still have pizza. Just not all that often. Your appetite shrinks and so it's important to stick to high fiber, high nutrition foods like greens and meat occasionally. Definitely avoid beer.

"Leaky gut" isn't medically recognized. What are your reasons for believing in it?

 

[Pizzabeak]

Too much thought in the water. If water supplies bother you just buy bottled where totally filtered water is accessible. Clean, clear, 100% water. Just to be sure you aren't getting extra crap.

True, to an extent. Ultimately, my concern is the rumor that fluoride "calcifies" the pineal gland and what kind of cognitive decline would come with that. Sounds elaborate but preliminary studies have shown that extra concentrations do indeed bind to it, as well as other bone like materials, hence the argument that fluoride in water will help with teeth.
No water is safe. We have a filter but it isn't designed for fluoride. You can see all the extra crap it filters out the tap water and it looks kind of strange.
It has been shown that any food in plastic absorbs some stuff that you don't want from the plastic, leading to cancers; etc. Women with their breasts are apparently especially prone to this via breast cancer, and it can leak into the milk they feed the children. I would imagine bottled water can be prone to this. All that remains is to see how much it actually matters.

Added sugars is a bit more insidious than just the frosted stuff. Bread, jarred sauces, granola bars / cereals are loaded with sugar. Obviously anything fast food is going to be loaded with sugar, too. Even the happy meals!

The best added sugars to consume are the kind that will kill your sweet tooth quickly. For example a piece of dark chocolate is a lot healthier than a box of carbs ( and some added sugar ). For the simple reason that the dark chocolate gets to the craving right away. The box of carbs while having much less sugar per serving is going to take a lot of consuming to satisfy the brain. It winds up being more added sugar consumed and probably way more carbs, too.

Yeah, everything has sugar at the common grocery store. All I wanted was a loaf of bread but they all have some sugar added in there. Doesn't seem that necessary to me but I suppose it could be. I know that bakers like to add salt to stuff to help it rise and it doesn't really make a difference in taste. I don't need sugar in bread though. Even though it may serve various purposes sugar in certain things doesn't really seem necessary. In the case of fast food supposedly it's mostly added for the cravings, to keep customers coming back for more almost subconsciously.

 

[redbaron]

"Leaky gut" isn't medically recognized. What are your reasons for believing in it?

I saw it on the internet.

 

[crippli]

what kind of sweets do you prefer? another thing is to get in the right mindset. i suppose deadlines help to an extent? but you have to make it the most important thing of the moment, forgoing sleep, and other entertainments. but, you're just tricking yourself into believing it's the most important then. you are easily missing out on other life opportunities while in that mode (depending, i suppose, on the time of the day). but it all evens out anyway.

I make my own sweets. Wisp some egg whites, add powdered sugar. add crunch/grind hazelnuts. Form these into small balls. Put in the own. When cooled down, dip in dark chocolate. I prefer some white, and some dark. Sprinkle with something for the presentation.

I'm not to concerned with missing out on life opportunities. As to fuel ones passions feels good. It has to be, if weight reduction is preferred. Otherwise you wont be able to starve the body. If eating is the more interesting thing to do.

 

[PaulMaster]

Dont avoid calories - USE calories. Get your vitamins and whatnot - eat plants and animals. Exercise is far more important than diet.

I was a personal trainer for several years. I learned that the most important factor for sticking with it - for creating a healthy LIFESTYLE, is finding exercise you love. There are so many ways to "workout". Find fun stuff. It may take a little while, some experimentation, but the body wants to move. There are a number of positive reinforcement mechanisms the body will employ on its own to promote more movement. Believe in the body. You can trust it.

 

[EditorOne]

I know I'm getting fat! It has been increasingly difficult to maintain a healthy weight as I get older, and I found an old photograph of a bunch of great-uncles in their 50s and 60s who look like caricatures of plump capitalist pigs in overcoats and tophats. So I think I'm fighting genetics to some extent. I'm done with trying to figure it out on my own. In about two weeks I'm going in for a comprehensive readout on my body's chemistry and biology, then a thought-out plan for getting this under control.

I'm in as close to full distress mode as it's possible for me to get, because nothing that's worked in the past has had the least effect. It just keeps going up, now at the rate of about a pound a month.

I'm at 229 now, after managing to stay at 205 for decades. Five-foot 11, still quite strong and relatively active (not a lumberjack, but not a desk jockey either). Nothing has changed, except I'm now in my sixth decade.

229 does not jibe with my self image. It is additionally raising hell with what used to be my good knee. :-)

I'll keep everyone posted on whether the "seek professional help" alternative actually works out.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Dont avoid calories - USE calories. Get your vitamins and whatnot - eat plants and animals. Exercise is far more important than diet.

I was a personal trainer for several years. I learned that the most important factor for sticking with it - for creating a healthy LIFESTYLE, is finding exercise you love. There are so many ways to "workout". Find fun stuff. It may take a little while, some experimentation, but the body wants to move. There are a number of positive reinforcement mechanisms the body will employ on its own to promote more movement. Believe in the body. You can trust it.

Yeah, you can either work out before or after a meal, and considering that, work out on a small snack you ate before hand (such as an apple or energy bar). People get mad if you don't do the right one. I remember a conversation with a relative and she said it's better to eat after a workout so you can keep it. It depends on what you're exercising for.

But.. On the whole I agree and that's good to know, coming from a professional. I certainly used to be more active in my youth, parents took us to the gym until I got busy enough so I couldn't find the time. Instead of that I would mostly skate. Now when I haven't in a while I certainly feel my body getting the urge to do so; I figured that's what it was. It's like Gohan from Dragon Ball S.

I suppose certain things wouldn't take that much time out of a day, when forcing oneself to devote to other projects. As a plus you can sweat out a lot of stuff, I would sweat more doing that than working out at the gym. Pretty sure that's why I wasn't fat growing up and didn't have a lot of time for much else.

But considering the notion of eating plants and animals, is that ideal or optimal as far as obtaining calories? Either way they say the best diet is to just make sure you get more plants than anything else.

 

[bvanevery]

Too much thought in the water. If water supplies bother you just buy bottled where totally filtered water is accessible. Clean, clear, 100% water. Just to be sure you aren't getting extra crap.

Buying bottled water in order to get greater purity / fewer contaminants can be a really bad move. Unlike public water supplies, private vendors of water are held to few standards of accountability. Their products can definitely be contaminated with things like industrial solvents such as hexene. I'm not well versed in the frequency of such occurrences, but if your driving issue is being absolutely sure you're not getting anything you don't want, then you have to do your homework on the company bottling your water. Your best bet is probably to invest in high grade filters and decontaminate your water that way. Or learn how to build such filters if you want to do it cheap.

 

[nanook]

I suggest you invest a couple of years of your life trying everything that doesn't work until you know for a fact, that those who have inspired you along the way were full of shit. You can probably do it within 5 years or so, if you make diet your #1 special interest. Or, you know, just maybe, limit yourself to the advice of people who have made it long term (having been truly fat in the first place and then really keeping it off after loosing it), without drugs and without regularly beating themselves up with calory counting, unnatural amounts of exercise or intermittent fasting to correct for the fact, that their super smart and healthy nutritional habits and choices are actually inherently fattening.

No, that might be too straight forward. Better to invest most of your money in products that are not in their raw state naturally appealing nutrition for your species. Invest in protein powders and all sorts of pills and lots of doctor visits, blood tests, medication and avoid anything that isn't thoroughly cooked, roasted, fried. Otherwise you haven't really tried everything, you know.

 

[PaulMaster]

Yeah, you can either work out before or after a meal,



But considering the notion of eating plants and animals, is that ideal or optimal as far as obtaining calories? Either way they say the best diet is to just make sure you get more plants than anything else.

Every single workout will be before and after you eat. Over time, you'll find the timing your body prefers. For an actual meal, you'll probably be somewhere in the couple/few hour range. For smaller snacks, the one hour-ish range. After workouts, eat when you're hungry.

I am of the mind that the further removed something is from its living state - from being literally alive - the fewer nutrients you'll get from it and therefore the lower quality food it is. Every time a food is changed, processed in some way, altered, frozen, boxed, canned, etc. it loses some nutrients. Eventually they're all gone.

 

[bvanevery]

I don't know about losing weight. I do know about managing Irritable Bowel Syndrome. This is probably some huge disturbance of my gut fauna, when it's really bad. Empirically, the best and most obvious thing I did to improve my situation over the past year, was start eating lots of that 10% milkfat yogurt I was talking about. Primarily, the benefit is receiving probiotics all the time.

Secondarily, cutting down on coffee is important. I used to think coffee was my #1 negative for my guts. The most obvious thing that getting rid of, helps. Could see clear cause and effect. But, since then, maybe my guts have healed enough that I can handle a certain amount of coffee no problem. I've proven that I can still overdo it though. My Mom always has it available around the house when I'm visiting. I can get into a "coffee cascade," where I just keep drinking more and more. Then at some point I've done too much and I have to dry out.

I'm not sure whether it's the caffeine, the acidic compounds, or the industrial solvents and pesticides in the coffee that damages my guts. Could be all 3. If it was only the solvents and pesticides, organic coffee should address that. There was a time when I thought switching to organic coffee was a big help. Maybe I should try that idea again. I'm not clear on the cause and effect though. I do know that less coffee = better gut health. It's proven to my personal satisfaction, my empirical observation of my own body response.

Cutting down on sugar helps. But I don't think it's as important as the above 2 factors. I eat a fair amount of sugar still and my guts are ok. On the other hand, that 10% milkfat yogurt, and increased fat consumption in general, cuts down on the desire for sugar. So although I still perceive myself to eat a lot of sugar, I may actually eat a lot less sugar than I used to. Hard to say. Writing this while chomping on Walmart fudge mints, their knockoff of Girl Scout thin mints. Only good product that company makes. Even then "good" is relative, I'm sure there's plenty of unnatural junk in these cheap cookies. But I don't think they're hurting me any.

I cut down on sugar and carbs to protect my brain. There's a school of thought that alzheimer's is diabetes of the brain. I think it probably also has a beneficial effect on my guts. It isn't as noticeable as consuming yogurt or cutting down coffee though.

I think healthy guts probably have something to do with weight gain, as well as preventing other diseases. I have books that say so. I just can't remember the details, as I've been doing what's operationally important to me, and getting some observable results.

I was strongly motivated in this, because when I make dietary mistakes, I experience pain. I don't just gain weight and look bad or something. I actually feel lousy. Too bad fat people don't have a feedback mechanism like that.

So I will continue with my pitch that 10% milkfat yogurt solves some of the problems.

Then of course the other pitch from the books, is that you need to eat FAT, not carbs and sugars. Personally, I wouldn't go to the extreme of eliminating carbs. I tried it, and within about a week, I started feeling pretty bad. Like, I really need to eat some carbs. Quite beyond jonesing for them, I felt like I was malnourished and really missing something. So I have adopted a "fat emphasizing" diet. I still eat carbs. But I won't usually eat something that's only a carb. For instance, peanuts will give you carbs, protein, and fat, not just carbs. Beans will give you carbs and protein. I don't eat sides like rice or bread for the most part anymore. Recently I relented and will eat a small bit of rice with cuisine that typically calls for it, like Chinese or Thai food. But no more. If a waiter asks if I want bread before dinner, I say no. If Mom wants to buy some bread when I visit, I make it clear that she's going to be eating most or all of it. So that hopefully she won't buy some big expensive loaf that just petrifies.

I've gone through periods of eating no sugar, i.e. sweets, desserts, at all. Didn't substitute fruit either. Books say, sugar is sugar. Fructose isn't magically better for you than sucrose. It's quite possible to remove a sweet tooth, simply by making sure to keep stuffing down enough fat. Fat makes the sugar craving go away, has to do with glycogen levels.

However nowadays I do eat some fruit, and will do it in preference to eating something "worse", like those mint cookies I just mentioned. I think the fruit tends to provide other nutritional benefits that outweigh the sugar you're taking in. As long as you're not going crazy on fruit. The point is, eating fruit doesn't get you off the hook. It isn't some consequence free food. But, it's a good tool for avoiding something worse. I definitely think eating several mandarin oranges is better than eating the box of cookies I'm currently consuming.

 

[bvanevery]

I am of the mind that the further removed something is from its living state - from being literally alive - the fewer nutrients you'll get from it and therefore the lower quality food it is.

That really depends. In some cases, your claim is provably scientifically false. Cooking does increase the bioavailability of various nutrients in various cases. On the other hand, sometimes it destroys nutrients. It really depends. The point is you can't get away with blanket statements like "raw only!" or "cooked only!"

I have trouble thinking up examples off the top of my head, but a good one is dry beans. Beans contain anti-nutrients, things that will bind with nutrients and render them useless. Soaking and warm water cooking will remove some of the anti-nutrients, and I've read papers proving it, but it won't remove all of them. I think it was only a 30% reduction. To really get rid of them, I think you have to ferment them, which is the basis of miso for instance. But that's a lot of extra preparation, and I've never really managed it while on the road in my car. I tried at one point, but coming up with distilled water without paying for it is a problem.

Many world cultures have turned poisonous plants into something edible with nutritional value, by many steps of cooking / boiling. If you don't follow the steps, some of this stuff will literally kill you. There's some plant like that in Florida, can't remember its name. Killed some US Civil War people when they processed it incorrectly. Saw the plant in a garden park down here, thought hey, I wonder if that's edible?? Well yes, but there's a big catch. It's certainly not edible raw.

Every time a food is changed, processed in some way, altered, frozen, boxed, canned, etc. it loses some nutrients. Eventually they're all gone.

I do agree that long shipment delays, and definitely industrial processing, destroy nutrient values of foods. But, I mostly notice this as a matter of taste. Just because something is older, doesn't necessarily mean it's lost that much nutrition compared to fresh off the tree. But it can certainly lose taste. I don't know what scientific studies, if any, would substantiate nutritional loss over time. It might be a mildly interesting area to investigate, but for my life purposes, I'm insufficiently motivated.

There are all kinds of bad industrial processes to be avoided. I won't belabor them.

 

[PaulMaster]

That really depends. In some cases, your claim is provably scientifically false. Cooking does increase the bioavailability of various nutrients in various cases. On the other hand, sometimes it destroys nutrients. It really depends. The point is you can't get away with blanket statements like "raw only!" or "cooked only!"

I have trouble thinking up examples off the top of my head, but a good one is dry beans. Beans contain anti-nutrients, things that will bind with nutrients and render them useless. Soaking and warm water cooking will remove some of the anti-nutrients, and I've read papers proving it, but it won't remove all of them. I think it was only a 30% reduction. To really get rid of them, I think you have to ferment them, which is the basis of miso for instance. But that's a lot of extra preparation, and I've never really managed it while on the road in my car. I tried at one point, but coming up with distilled water without paying for it is a problem.

Many world cultures have turned poisonous plants into something edible with nutritional value, by many steps of cooking / boiling. If you don't follow the steps, some of this stuff will literally kill you. There's some plant like that in Florida, can't remember its name. Killed some US Civil War people when they processed it incorrectly. Saw the plant in a garden park down here, thought hey, I wonder if that's edible?? Well yes, but there's a big catch. It's certainly not edible raw.

I do agree that long shipment delays, and definitely industrial processing, destroy nutrient values of foods. But, I mostly notice this as a matter of taste. Just because something is older, doesn't necessarily mean it's lost that much nutrition compared to fresh off the tree. But it can certainly lose taste. I don't know what scientific studies, if any, would substantiate nutritional loss over time. It might be a mildly interesting area to investigate, but for my life purposes, I'm insufficiently motivated.

There are all kinds of bad industrial processes to be avoided. I won't belabor them.

I was making a generalized statement for sure. When discussing nutrition with new exercisers, broad and general tend to be more useful than details and exceptions. Those can come later. Ideas like "eat fresh veggies" and "minimize processed foods" are what I was aiming at. There are plenty of exceptions. For example, I believe its fairly well accepted that frozen vegetables are more nutrient dense than out of season fresh veggies.

I believe the general idea of "the further removed..." to be a pretty good rule of thumb.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

Just fall in love and the pounds will roll off.

 

[nanook]

> Just fall in love and the pounds will roll off.

always had the exact opposite effect on me. i'd diet for months, loose a fuck ton of weight until suddenly a girl would show up in my life. then, after chatting for a while, we would meet up in real life and begin to, you know, cook together and ... watch TV and eat. and that's always the end of my diet ... also my last girlfriend had studied nutrition and i was on low carb at the time and she got mighty pissed off at me, because she knew that low carb is the biggest anti-scientific bullshit ever. since insulin resistance, related weight gain and diabetes are actually caused by fat, not by sugar or any other carbs - but hey, i don't want to ruin the subjective flow of this thread with science or anything. i won't even tell that alzheimers, at least the aspect of it that is associated with the term "diabetes type III", is mainly caused by dietary cholesterol (animal products), which is the one that is clogging the arteries of the whole body, except that some people have genes that allow them to unclog the arteries of their brain so quickly, that they will die off clogged arteries in their heart, before they can experience the pleasure of full blown dementia, while others don't have that ability, so they die of alzheimers, before their heart breaks down, because the arteries in the brain are thinner and more quickly closed up ....

http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=diabetes
http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=alzheimers
http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=arteriosclerosis
http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=dairy
http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=osteoporosis
http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=leaky+gut
http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=irritable+bowel
http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=diverticulosis
http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=heart+disease
http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=how+much+fruit+is+too+much
.... enter your own search terms


did you know that snake venom contains toxins that can kill you, when you consume it raw? clearly that means you should cook it and consume some every day.

did you know that consuming small quantities of snake venom every day can allow you to build up a tolerance against it? clearly this means that snake venom is healing any irritability of the gut, that was previously caused by consumption of the occasional unprepared dosis of snake venom. regular consumption of small quantities of snake venom will probably give you eternal life as well, since it obviously contains the magical power to prevent death, anytime you took it so far. it may still kill you after a while, but you will find out in a couple of years ...

yeah, careful with those subjective logical conclusions, when it comes to nutrition. better to look at long term results that people all over the globe have in their real life. what do people eat, who get very old with the least disease? (and you can bet these are also the leanest people ...)

 

[Pizzabeak]

Maybe if you cut dairy and wheat and sweets, that will take care of the calorie excess. Eating will be a bit of a challenge and you will be forced to rethink, which creates a buffer against stupid decisions. Replace dairy and wheat with more vegetables and poultry. Also add oats if you don't consume that regularly. There are further things you could eliminate, like corn and legumes. They aren't super nutrient dense or healthy. As long as you get some protein, some good fats and plenty of micro-nutrients, you are on the right track. The most crucial and beneficial foods are what our ancestors consumed: Small game-ish meat, nuts, fruits and vegetables. I believe it helps if you view these diet alterations not only as a means of reducing calory intake but also as treating your bodily systems better overall. There are many benefits beyond weight reulation.

If you like sweets you can make your own using stevia instead of sugar.

Fasting for a few days can be good, but you should not starve your body. IIRC you are doing strength exercises? Losing muscle and gaining fat despite that would indicate something quite alarming i guess. Overall i'd urge you to seek medical attention if your changes in physique aren't a response to any lifestyle changes and especially if they are accompanied by mood changes.

Perhaps too basic suggestions to be of use.

Do you know any good stevia brands to use? I believe it turned out that Stevia in the Raw actually does not use all natural ingredients, making it not that different from regular sugar. I'm guessing you can also just go ahead and use Splenda at that. Now that I think about it I don't add sugar to anything. Might be too much to ask large corporations to replace all their sugar usage with stevia though.

 

[bvanevery]

> also my last girlfriend had studied nutrition and i was on low carb at the time and she got mighty pissed off at me, because she knew that low carb is the biggest anti-scientific bullshit ever. since insulin resistance, related weight gain and diabetes are actually caused by fat, not by sugar or any other carbs - but hey, i don't want to ruin the subjective flow of this thread with science or anything.

I guess we'd have to start citing sources. Mine were mostly from the Pearlmutter books. I never did get into fact checking his sources, but the appendix in the book is extensive. It looks well researched. That's not enough to gain certainty, but this isn't tabloid level material.

You quoted some searches on a nutrition oriented website. One thing I've learned about internet websites is that where facts are concerned, populist easy to digest websites do not count. You have to engage in primary peer reviewed materials. If you offered something concrete in that regard, I might look into it, but offering popular nutrition sites and saying "throw in some search terms" is not evidence.