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F types, please help me understand your decision making process

grey matters

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Call me a dunce if you will, but I have tried over and over to understand how one can make decisions using the F function instead of the T function. In my head I have tried to simulate what it would be like to make a decision using the F function but every time I try, I find myself reverting back to my old friend, detached logic. I really try to put myself into the "F" shoes so to speak, but I just can't seem to do it. I just don't get it. Help, I seek to understand.

Can anyone help with an example or two of how you think or make decisions?
 

naberus

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I'm no F but when I was very little, I had an over-developed F function so let's see how much help I am.

F's tend to get personal satisfaction from being useful to others on an intimate level, that is, they like to have an emotinal impact and knowing they have achieved something which balances their needs as well as other people's. It's like when we Ts discover the answer to a complicated problem (such as a technical, philoshopical or mathimatical one) and are able to solve it and it's relatives with ease, sometimes making other people realise the logic behind it.
 

FF

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This is how I distinguish between T and F, in the simplest way:

T =
a person who has an opinion and sticks with it, no matter if others agree with it or completely hate it.

a person who cares more about their own well-being rather than the emotions of others.

a person who uses logic and reasoning to make decisions.

F =
a person who has an idea, but would rather go along with something everyone is comfortable with.

a person whose emotions are dependent on the emotions of others (if you're happy, i'm happy...if you're sad, i'm sad.)

a person who makes decisions based off of their own feelings and the feelings of others.

Simple as that. :)
 

mm1991

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I'd rather be a 'T' than an 'F' any day.......
 

grey matters

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According to a book I read recently called "Type Talk" "It's possible for T's and F's to arrive at the same conclusion via their different paths, or for people who employ similar modes of decision making to come to opposite conclusions. It's the rute to the decision, not the decision itself, that characterizes them.

"For others, the decision-making process is driven by an interpersonal involvement that comes from subjective values. Words like harmony, mercy, and tenderhearted come to mind with the group. The impact of the decision on people is extremely important to this group's final action. These people have a tendency to identify with and assume other' emotional paths, preferring to make Feeling decisions."

Perhaps I just have a severe case of head up the ass, but I can't see how anyone can come to a sensible, correct conclusion using subjective values. I can acnowledge that these things exist, but I can't seem to string them together into anything that makes any sense. Logic always gets in the way.
 

didyouknow

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INTP speaking here, tell me if this is wrong please F's.

F types are a lot more pleasant, but personally I wouldn't trust them to make accurate, logical decisions. They seem more likely to come to a decision everyone likes, whether that's the 'right' answer or not doesn't matter as much to them. I make decisions based on evidence and a lot of personal thought. (Are we more selfish decision-makers??)
 
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Perseus

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Call me a dunce if you will, but I have tried over and over to understand how one can make decisions using the F function instead of the T function. In my head I have tried to simulate what it would be like to make a decision using the F function but every time I try, I find myself reverting back to my old friend, detached logic. I really try to put myself into the "F" shoes so to speak, but I just can't seem to do it. I just don't get it. Help, I seek to understand.

Can anyone help with an example or two of how you think or make decisions?

It is quite easy. Just drink a whole bottle of Calvados and go with the flow. I suspect that I run on Intuition though. Still don't trust my Feelings. My Intuition is very powerful and my Feelings are not.

I do not come across as cold though. Hot rather than warm. But that is because I run permanently on Inferior Function right now, unless I descend into the shadow functions. Not sure why this is?
 

Perseus

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Snake in the Cathouse

According to a book I read recently called "Type Talk" "It's possible for T's and F's to arrive at the same conclusion via their different paths, or for people who employ similar modes of decision making to come to opposite conclusions. It's the rute to the decision, not the decision itself, that characterizes them.

"For others, the decision-making process is driven by an interpersonal involvement that comes from subjective values. Words like harmony, mercy, and tenderhearted come to mind with the group. The impact of the decision on people is extremely important to this group's final action. These people have a tendency to identify with and assume other' emotional paths, preferring to make Feeling decisions."

Perhaps I just have a severe case of head up the ass, but I can't see how anyone can come to a sensible, correct conclusion using subjective values. I can acnowledge that these things exist, but I can't seem to string them together into anything that makes any sense. Logic always gets in the way.

What book is this. Cats (ISFP) with feeling high, do not ever see eye-to-eye with the Eagle (INTP). Just can't understand each other at all. Snake (ENTP) in the Cathouse.
 

grey matters

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It's called "Type Talk" by Otto Kroeger and Janet M. Thuesen.

How about an an example of how (according to the book) a Feeler makes a decision. Here's the situation: two parents had agreed to let their teenage daughter borrow the car to go to a friends house. Then the weather turned ban and they had to reevaluate their original decision.

Feeler: "I remember when I was a teenager, one of the ways my parents told me they loved me was to not always give me what I wanted. Even though I felt crushed and wounded at the time, when I got over it I really felt as though they cared about me enough to look out for my best interests. The only loving thing to do is to not let her use the car."

Thinker: "Parenting is a tough role and difficult decisions must be made. They are not always decisions liked by everyone and sometimes they lead to temporary unhappiness. However, I am not called upon as a parent to be liked or to make others happy. As a parent I must make responsible decisions that reflect a competent role model and that are in the best interest of everyone."

Now in this case, the T parent and the F parent came to the same decision but used different routes to get there. Personally I don't know how accurate those examples are. I think the Thinkers logic is too F, but maybe I'm just a hard ass.

If faced with the same situation, the first thing that would come to mind would be risk assessment. I.e. what is the weather condition, could it get worse or improve, how much trust can I put in my daughter's driving ability in terms of skill and mature decision making, what are the traffic conditions, time of day etc.

If the risk was too high I would bypass trying to make me feel good about my decision, and say "no, You are not skilled enough to handle the driving conditions, you can not borrow the car. I will have to drive you there." Now I'm not that much a pain in the ass. For consolation I would offer to teach her how to drive in nasty weather conditions (I'm thinking snow), like take her out to an empty parking lot and have her do "doughnuts" and sudden stops and turns.
 

Perseus

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The more obvious one is if two people fancy a girl. Do you rush in like a Horsemen (ESFJ) or use guile like a Snake (ENTP)? Or do you rise above such unfortunate circumstances like an Eagle (INFP)? Or take some pharmaceuticals and behave like a Leopard (ESTP) or go to the picnic as a Bear (ISTP). Or put on the Hawk (INTJ) act?

The Bear one is the most dangerous.
 

grey matters

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My husband is an ENTP . You made me laugh when you said "or use guile like a Snake (ENTP)." Believe me its true.

I almost afraid to ask this but, why is the Bear the most dangerous?
 

echoplex

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I'm an INTP, but I think I may have some insight here...

I think it could be said that emotions are, in many ways, our most pure expressions of absolute desire. Whereas thinking is how we express absolute logic. And even though I'm an INTP, I can see the benefits of making decisions purely on desire, and I sometimes envy those who can do that. The problem is that sometimes in order to make sense of things, we have to detach ourselves, which F types don't like to do.

It's like
T: "does this make sense?"
F: "does this feel right?"

I mean, I guess you can't blame Fs for wanting things to feel right, anymore than you can blame us for wanting things to make sense.

Another way to simplify it would be:
Ts strive to be Pure Logic
Fs strive to be Pure Desire
 

MissieSue

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When you say you can't understand how an F comes to the correct solution... that would be a value statement. "Correct" is subjective and based on each person. You may value efficiency, I may value mercy. So we would both come to different or the same conculsions based on different ideas of "correct" and "right".

ENFJ here...
 

Ghost1986

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INTP speaking here, tell me if this is wrong please F's.

F types are a lot more pleasant, but personally I wouldn't trust them to make accurate, logical decisions. They seem more likely to come to a decision everyone likes, whether that's the 'right' answer or not doesn't matter as much to them. I make decisions based on evidence and a lot of personal thought. (Are we more selfish decision-makers??)


from what ive seen F tend to focus more on people than facts.

an example would be a state ruler.

T=my goal to to keep this state intact, and gather resources as needed.

F=my people will be upset if invaded so i must protect them, i need to make sure supplies gets to every group that needs them.

my example is most likely wrong.

i noticed working with people who were F, i think, that they always like to dig deeper than the facts.
 

Deleted member 1424

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'Digging deeper' into fact is an intuitive, not feeling trait. Intuitives think theoretically about facts, where an S takes a more realistic and concrete approach.
 

chocolate

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From what I understand, logical thinking can equally apply to the F's or T's. I know some very logical F's and illogical T's. It's the material that one puts into the logic that differs -- personal vs. impersonal -- that determines an F vs. a T.

So I don't think it's that different than how we make decisions; it's just that the premises and factors are different ones (include more -- and more weighting on -- personal matters).

I am familiar with this because my sister is a feeler and we usually both come to the same conclusions, but when I hear her reasoning, it's fascinating (different). We both try to make the best decision logically (and we both found logic classes trivially easy in university), if that makes sense...
 

watermelon

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From what I understand, logical thinking can equally apply to the F's or T's. I know some very logical F's and illogical T's. It's the material that one puts into the logic that differs -- personal vs. impersonal -- that determines an F vs. a T.

Concur. We're just more personal. I think also, since emotions exist, you can't just take them out of the formula. I'm sure when you use your 'T' in a group-setting amongst friends to reach an agreement, you consider the 'F's, otherwise little would get done, no? Hence, it's pretty logical to utilize feelings of compassion and what not.

But I guess that's a bit too logical to be 'F'.
Consider, have you ever wanted to protect the under-dog? Felt love for animals? Thought they were at least, cute?? Haha um.. ever wanted to hug someone? Looked at a sunset and thought "that was beautiful, I wish I could stare at it forever"? Or any feeling of longing and wistfulness? Passion? I think those are some examples of 'F'.
 

didyouknow

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But I guess that's a bit too logical to be 'F'.
Consider, have you ever wanted to protect the under-dog? Felt love for animals? Thought they were at least, cute?? Haha um.. ever wanted to hug someone? Looked at a sunset and thought "that was beautiful, I wish I could stare at it forever"? Or any feeling of longing and wistfulness? Passion? I think those are some examples of 'F'.

I disagree with this. I have thought all of those things before (except the hugging part) and I am an INTP.

I think T types search for a truth that overcomes all personal boundaries whereas F types search for a truth that will satisfy those present... a kind of personal truth. It does not mean Thinking types cannot feel or empathise.
 

Razare

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I think something any INTP will have trouble understanding about those who make decisions with feeling is that their sense of feeling is far more complex than most any T is going to experience.

When you practice using your feelings from an early age to make decisions, then you build up "emotional experience" like experience points in a video game if you will. A certain situation reminds you of an emotionally similar situation, from which you draw experience from. They probably do it half the time without even realizing where their experience is being drawn from. By the age of adulthood, it could very well be a trained response within them, without complete recollection of all the factors affecting their current emotional calculation. Maybe they have complete recollection too? I'd be curious on this.

Feelers become emotionally mature in a way that an INTP who represses their emotions will never experience. INTP emotions I believe to be raw, simple, and intense when felt. They are uncomplicated emotions that did not have to learn the rigors of decision making, where you feel the emotional state of others to assist in reaching a conclusion. Sometime long-long ago in our childhoods, something clicked in our heads that told us, "We can use logic to solve this!" and from that day forth our feelings have mostly been left on the bench, only to be used in seldom circumstances.

The emotional maturity developed in some feeling types would be difficult for us INTP's to grasp because of the sheer complexity of the emotions being felt. Essentially at it's core, it originated from the pure emotions that us INTP's do feel. Anger, sadness, happiness, ect. yet different flavors of those, combined with an emphasis on other people's emotions (for those feeling types that are emotionally mature.) Non-emotionally mature feeling types would probably put supreme importance on their own emotions rather than those of others, and base their decisions on how they personally feel.

I think many INTP's lack emotional maturity because we do not use our feeling function. Even when we improve our emotions in adulthood, I don't think it'll ever catch up to those who use it constantly.

For an INTP to walk in the shoes of a feeler, you'd have first be able to recognize all of your emotions when you're feeling them. This is a problem as much of the time, I don't feel anything, and I'm sure many of you would agree.

Now if you pass the first step and can detect your emotions well enough to understand what their motivation is, you would then act upon those emotions, for the sake of those emotions. Yet if you do this without emotional maturity, you're going to behave like a child. Remember, the feeling types spent their childhoods doing just this, acting rashly upon their feelings and learning from the experience. If you have not done this before and start today, you're going to effectively become a child in the process.

The next step would be to learn as you go, trial and error, living by your experiences and letting them reshape you and mold your feelings into something new.

I believe this is how you would describe the path of Feeling. It's not something a normal INTP can just sit-down and comprehend, we can only rationalize it, not experience it.

---------------------

Disclaimer: I'm sure there are some emotionally mature INTP's out there who grew with a healthy outlet to express their emotional side, and therefore, have progressed beyond the point of emotional childhood.
 

The Fury

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We make decisions based on emotion every day. In "Your Brain is (almost) Perfect", we're told that we use either logic or feeling when coming to a conclusion, based on the situation. If we only used rational thinking in making our choices then we would have to examine every possibility before we take an action. There are those that can only use logic in decisions and because of this it can take them hours to make the simpliest choices such as "Which pen should I use, the black one or the blue one".
 

sagewolf

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I can't believe I never posted here...

I think echoplex was right-- T preference types prefer to decide on things based on objective values, and F preference types prefer to decide things based on subjective values. Ti decides whether or not a concept makes sense logically, and Te decides whether or not it makes sense and will work in operation/application--whether or not it will fit into what surrounds it. (I am very hazy on what that function is, though-- If I'm wrong, please correct me.)

Fi decides how concepts fit into the value system of the person evaluating them; Fe decides how actions will affect the interaction of the person making the decision with other people/expresses emotions, concepts and values considered important by the person expressing them.
 

Chronomar

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F =
a person who has an idea, but would rather go along with something everyone is comfortable with.

a person whose emotions are dependent on the emotions of others (if you're happy, i'm happy...if you're sad, i'm sad.)

a person who makes decisions based off of their own feelings and the feelings of others.

Simple as that. :)

What if everyone in a community/world was an F? What would they do? How would they decide things?
 

secretsmile

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Can anyone help with an example or two of how you think or make decisions?

Here's one. My husband and I met at work, and although he was into me, there was some hesitation on his part to be involved with a coworker, especially being that he is in the military and where we worked there were a lot of issues with gossip and crappy bosses. I was willing to throw caution to the wind. I had no hesitation at all. So I was making an emotional, feelings-based decision. It took some convincing to get him to go along with it. Or at least it took him truly falling for me before he was ready to jump in head first. In my mind (heart?), the consequences of our relationship couldn't be nearly as bad as never finding out what we could possibly become. I guess in the end my emotional decision-making worked out, because I am head over heels and happily married.

Needless to say though, it did turn into a HUGE MESS at work and he got in a lot of [ridiculous] trouble over our relationship. And I lost my job there. Heh....
 

Ulysses

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So what you guys are trying to say is that F types have more empathy than T types? I can be empathic at times, but only when I choose to. Is that considered normal for a T type?
 

zephryi

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I don't think it's that F types have more empathy by default. What having a feeling function really means is that you make decisions on things such as values, and how other people feel- you may see others' emotions and pick up on cues such as tone of voice, subtle expressions, and such easily, and be able to express your own emotion easily, but actual empathy, I believe, is a learned skill; children aren't empathic when they are young, and most still aren't through adolescence. ;) However, feeling types are more likely to be (more) empathetic since they pick up on and transmit emotions better, and have a better understanding of them, typically.
 

meshram.alok

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I often experience my (underdeveloped) F side these days, and here's the difference, according to me:

Thinkers are usually detached, even from themselves. This is how they are comfortable. When trying to attach to something or someone, they would feel turbid and unstable. Similarly, when trying to detach from something they like a lot (such as personal possessions, even something as small as a cellphone), they would feel intense emotions and are more likely to react very immaturely.

Feelers, on the other hand, are used to the attachment process, and express it freely. They understand how it works, and how their own reactions might be due to some kind of changes in these attachments, and hence understand and adapt to the new situation quickly. When forced to detach, however, they will feel horribly empty and "cold", something which makes them think will make them cause harm to whatever they value the most.
 

Beat Mango

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Well there was a test done recently where they cut off the emotional part of the brain in order to ascertain the effects of emotions on decision making, and they found that these people were unable to make the most banal decisions. I figure that's because either 1) without emotions, you have no desire, therefore every option seems equally valid, or 2) you are forced to rely completely on your logical mind, meaning you're unable to find any ultimate certainty in your decisions (I am a skeptic).
 
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