Eye contact with strangers.

[Bryson]

I noticed I'm really bad on eye contact, specially with females.
Usually when we make eye contact I look away right after, pretending I wasn't looking. When the person is smiling it gets worse, as I can't shift from my usual impassive face and bring in some warmth.
It's safe to say I'm not giving a good impression that way.

Can you INTPs do it naturally with strangers? Does it get better with age?

 

[Astealthydonut]

Same here.

 

[thoumyvision]

I don't do it naturally, I have to concentrate on it. I did start doing it though in an effort to gain confidence. I observed that confident people walk with their heads up and look people in the eye, so I started emulating that. It was pretty hard at first but it's easy now as long as I remember to do it.

Confidence, I've realized, is is a strange attitude which does not necessarily need to start from within. An external change can spark the internal change, mostly because we get a lot of our confidence from how other people treat us. If we start acting differently we'll start getting treated differently, even if our inner confidence hasn't changed. Then, by being treated differently, our inner confidence does change.

Anyone else experience this?

 

[curiousbored]

I don't do it naturally, I have to concentrate on it. I did start doing it though in an effort to gain confidence. I observed that confident people walk with their heads up and look people in the eye, so I started emulating that. It was pretty hard at first but it's easy now as long as I remember to do it.

Confidence, I've realized, is is a strange attitude which does not necessarily need to start from within. An external change can spark the internal change, mostly because we get a lot of our confidence from how other people treat us. If we start acting differently we'll start getting treated differently, even if our inner confidence hasn't changed. Then, by being treated differently, our inner confidence does change.

Anyone else experience this?

I also agree. I'm sure plenty of us have heard the "why do you look so angry", when really you are just being non-expressive. I'll extend from what you said to just a general statement, which may or may not be true of the OP. Monitor your thoughts. Are you thinking negatively, are you putting yourself down, are you always assuming the worst? I got trapped by my intp brain when I was younger and I got into a habit of thinking negatively to excess. Take steps to treat yourself better, Self Love and Self Acceptance are two very key things in life, and will ultimately help your self esteem/confidence, because you will know that you are enough (because each one of us is, most just don't realize it). hope that helps

 

[Bryson]

I don't do it naturally, I have to concentrate on it. I did start doing it though in an effort to gain confidence. I observed that confident people walk with their heads up and look people in the eye, so I started emulating that. It was pretty hard at first but it's easy now as long as I remember to do it.

Thanks for the tips. Seems it requires a conscious effort.

Are you thinking negatively, are you putting yourself down, are you always assuming the worst? I got trapped by my intp brain when I was younger and I got into a habit of thinking negatively to excess. Take steps to treat yourself better, Self Love and Self Acceptance are two very key things in life, and will ultimately help your self esteem/confidence, because you will know that you are enough (because each one of us is, most just don't realize it). hope that helps

I've been there when I was a bit younger but nowadays I have a pretty healthy self esteem. It just feels weird.

 

[boondockbabe]

I always feel like ...like when leodardo DeCaprio and that girl are walking through the dream and they have been noticed. in Inception. you guys see that? I can pull it off, but I never feel right.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

I have a really hard time with eye contact. In fact the only time i can think of that i actually maintain eye contact is when i am angry.

Then again i have trouble with pretty much all aspects of my own facial expression and eye movement. I dont even know what i look like when i am just idly thinking, i know i am always contorting my mouth and slightly chewing the inside of my lips. Then when i do notice people looking at me and i try to maintain, i end up being overly expressive, with rapid eye movements, fake facial expressions etc.

I have been told before that my lack of eye contact stems from low self confidence, which i dont think is right. I always walk around with my head held high, and have no problem looking people in the face. There is just something about it that never feels right when i look people directly in the eye, it makes me feel intrusive and disrespectful. That and direct eye contact is an inviting gesture, and i have no interest in talking to most people so, eye contact would be false advertising.

 

[boondockbabe]

I can definitly agree. No problem with eye contact when I am pissed.

 

[EditorOne]

"I observed that confident people walk with their heads up and look people in the eye, so I started emulating that. It was pretty hard at first but it's easy now as long as I remember to do it.

Confidence, I've realized, is is a strange attitude which does not necessarily need to start from within. An external change can spark the internal change, mostly because we get a lot of our confidence from how other people treat us. If we start acting differently we'll start getting treated differently, even if our inner confidence hasn't changed. Then, by being treated differently, our inner confidence does change.

Anyone else experience this?"

Absolutely. Carry it far enough and you'll end up in charge of something, with absolutely no idea how it happened.

Eye contact: It doesn't have to be low self esteem. Eye contact is often a prelude to engagement. We are inward-directed; avoiding engagement (the intrusion of external stuff) is probably more the instinctive (intuitive) reason we drop our eyes.

Of course, there's also the "you must be a weirdo" factor. A couple of years ago I ran into a woman I knew professionally but had never met in person, a local Realtor who was in a leadership position within her calling. We quoted her at times in the paper and we had each other's Facebook stuff. It was at a deli, she was ahead of me in line, so I looked right at her and smiled. She looked away, and when she looked back I smiled again. So I figure out what's wrong and tell her "OK, I think you don't recognize me without my beard," and introduced myself. "Thank goodness you're a creepy staring guy I know," was her rejoinder. Is that motivation for averting your eyes or what?

 

[Dimensional Transition]

A while ago I made the same thread and 50% of the people seemed to have no trouble with eye contact, while the other had troubles with it, like you and me.

It just creeps me out a little. I still try looking in people's eyes every now and then, but they're just quick shifts over their eyes, really. I've had this as long as I can remember. When I was little my mom always used to tell me that I should look at people when I talk to them, but I still can't. I hate it, it makes me really uneasy. In return, I am seen as insecure and detached, which adds to my 'weirdness'.

When people are looking at me in my eyes for a long time and they're angry, I usually burst out laughing because I see how ridiculous the whole situation looks... or something.
In every other situation eyes creep me out, they're like two dark black holes in which someone's soul is captivated, and the fact that they're looking into my soul-abysses too just feels like it's hurting or violating me in some way... I hope this makes sense.

I even have it with my best friends and family.

 

[Hadoblado]

Sometimes if i stare in the mirror at my own eyes i will freak myself the fuck out with the 'ol soul-abysses. My housemate can bring me to tears of fear/laughter when he stares intensely, he has vision problems which I believe to have affected the size of his pupils, their huge! He makes me actually cringe in fear every time he does it. Nice bloke tho.

I will look people in the eye if I am in a really good mood a.k.a high self esteem. Otherwise I'll look at them from about 20m, see all I need to know and never look at them again.

 

[digital angel]

I'm probably not good with eye contact either. I do try to remember to keep eye contact. It shows you're interested.

 

[lucky12]

There is just something about it that never feels right when i look people directly in the eye, it makes me feel intrusive and disrespectful. That and direct eye contact is an inviting gesture, and i have no interest in talking to most people so, eye contact would be false advertising.

Totally my view on it.

I like making eye contact if I'm talking to people though, it brings depth to conversations usually. Most people in my life seem to take it was a sign that I am truly paying attention to what they are saying and that I understand it.

 

[Words]

@op

Depends on how much interested I am. Turning it into a social game makes it easy but disrespectful. Kind of Works for obligations.

 

[TheAndroid]

I think that naturally dominate people are able to maintain eye contact for longer periods of time. My friend (an ESFP) makes me very uncomfortable whilst talking to me because it feels like shes staring into my soul (if souls existed) (it also makes me feel like a bit less of a man, because my friend is female).

I may have read somewhere that people subconsciously pick up on your eye movement and automatically recognize whether you are a dominant or submissive type person. Even if they don't know it.

They talked about the angle and degree to which you look away and how they indicate the level of confidence/dominance that the person in question has. For example if you look down, it indicates that you are not confident and the distance you look down tells them how 'in-confident' you are. So therefore if you want to appear confident you don't have to maintain eye contact, you simply should look up, sideways or down to a small degree. (thus solving the awkwardness issues)

My conclusion is that this function of the psyche is used partly for identifying possible sexual or intimate partners by using, somewhat primitive, instincts. By that i mean dominant people are able to easy identify submissive (or more submissive) partners.

I hope all this makes sense (I am an INTP and find it difficult to explain things clearly). Is there anyone that can confirm my hypothesis?

PS- this was my first post on any site, ever.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I always feel like ...like when leodardo DeCaprio and that girl are walking through the dream and they have been noticed. in Inception. you guys see that? I can pull it off, but I never feel right.

That's a great way to put it. It's the same way for me. For some reason "being noticed" is about the worst feeling in the world to me. Of course, I have other psychological problems that may contribute...

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I don't have an issue with this, although other people have difficulty making eye contact with me for long periods of time.

 

[kantor1003]

I noticed I'm really bad on eye contact, specially with females.
Usually when we make eye contact I look away right after, pretending I wasn't looking. When the person is smiling it gets worse, as I can't shift from my usual impassive face and bring in some warmth.
It's safe to say I'm not giving a good impression that way.

Can you INTPs do it naturally with strangers? Does it get better with age?

It's seems like what you are describing, looking away as soon as eye contact is established to pretend one wasn't looking, is something I am inclined to do as well. However, I've been experimenting with letting go of that particular habit. By looking away in that matter I don't think you will fool anyone most of the time, and more likely it will be interpreted as you being nervous. When I look into someones eyes, and they catch me doing it, I will continue looking them in the eyes for a few seconds more, making it clear that "yes, I've been looking into your eyes" then gradually look away.
I find eye contact to be really interesting. A nice way to pass time on public transportation as well. One time when I was caught by a female looking into her eyes I just kept eye contact to see how long she dared to do the same. Usually, they will look away after a few seconds because eye contact can be quite intense. In this instance though, she kept looking right into my eyes and wouldn't let go for what felt like the longest time. I actually really enjoyed it, even though it was uncomfortable in some ways. After what in reality amounted to about 30 seconds (which is a really long time) I let go of the contact, trying to act as naturally and comfortable as I could by gradually shifting my focus to something else. It was weird and it left a smile on my face. I'm glad I didn't talk with her, as that would certainly have ruined what felt like something "special" we shared.

When the person is smiling it gets worse, as I can't shift from my usual impassive face and bring in some warmth.

How come?

 

[Bird]

I had a staring contest with my friend Parker.
My eyes started watering profusely after about
forty seconds. That's the only time I maintain
eye contact.

 

[EditorOne]

Interestingly enough, we all seem to be approaching "direct eye contact" as a desirable thing. You may be surprised to learn it isn't universal. Among the traditional Navajo, it is considered rude for a younger person to look directly at an older one while carrying on a conversation. Any other departures from Western cultural norms out there?

Footnote: I think a serious study of traditional Navajo culture from a Myers-Briggs perspective would be a fascinating thing. In some ways it's like the whole bunch displays INTP traits. Even their religion is aimed mostly at explaining why things got to where we find them today.

 

[thoumyvision]

Interestingly enough, we all seem to be approaching "direct eye contact" as a desirable thing. You may be surprised to learn it isn't universal. Among the traditional Navajo, it is considered rude for a younger person to look directly at an older one while carrying on a conversation. Any other departures from Western cultural norms out there?

Footnote: I think a serious study of traditional Navajo culture from a Myers-Briggs perspective would be a fascinating thing. In some ways it's like the whole bunch displays INTP traits. Even their religion is aimed mostly at explaining why things got to where we find them today.

Huh, that reminds me of my first day in boot camp. Prior to the Navy I only looked people in the eye if they were an authority figure and I was making some sort of formal request. In boot camp you got yelled at for looking the instructors in the eye, "you eyeballin' me!?", so I had to retrain myself not to look authority figures in the eye. Then, when boot camp ended, I had to retrain myself yet again to look people of higher rank in the eye because it's apparently only in boot camp that one gets yelled at for it.

It will always be a mystery to me why so many things in the military, an organization which is supposed to be focused on efficiency and getting the job done, make no logical sense whatsoever.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

My conclusion is that this function of the psyche is used partly for identifying possible sexual or intimate partners by using, somewhat primitive, instincts. By that i mean dominant people are able to easy identify submissive (or more submissive) partners.

I fucking hate those 'physical attraction theories', when I apply them to myself, I always find out I'm an extremely undesirable weakling.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I had a staring contest with my friend Parker.
My eyes started watering profusely after about
forty seconds. That's the only time I maintain
eye contact.

I had several staring contests this morning with one of the people I am in a group with, and he consistantly lost, attributing his failings to my "creepy" stare. I have found that the best way to win staring contests is not to try to win, but to make your opponent lose.

 

[Bryson]

When I look into someones eyes, and they catch me doing it, I will continue looking them in the eyes for a few seconds more, making it clear that "yes, I've been looking into your eyes" then gradually look away.

Interesting. Probably the best tactic.

How come?

My mind is usually busy trying to figure something or planning what I'm supposed to do next, so the transition from that state can be pretty slow.

 

[Bryson]

I think that naturally dominate people are able to maintain eye contact for longer periods of time. My friend (an ESFP) makes me very uncomfortable whilst talking to me because it feels like shes staring into my soul (if souls existed) (it also makes me feel like a bit less of a man, because my friend is female).

I may have read somewhere that people subconsciously pick up on your eye movement and automatically recognize whether you are a dominant or submissive type person. Even if they don't know it.

They talked about the angle and degree to which you look away and how they indicate the level of confidence/dominance that the person in question has. For example if you look down, it indicates that you are not confident and the distance you look down tells them how 'in-confident' you are. So therefore if you want to appear confident you don't have to maintain eye contact, you simply should look up, sideways or down to a small degree. (thus solving the awkwardness issues)

My conclusion is that this function of the psyche is used partly for identifying possible sexual or intimate partners by using, somewhat primitive, instincts. By that i mean dominant people are able to easy identify submissive (or more submissive) partners.

I hope all this makes sense (I am an INTP and find it difficult to explain things clearly). Is there anyone that can confirm my hypothesis?

PS- this was my first post on any site, ever.

I think that makes sense. I think some women will put a lot of weight on that factor, and some won't.
Welcome.

 

[TheAndroid]

I fucking hate those 'physical attraction theories', when I apply them to myself, I always find out I'm an extremely undesirable weakling.

Haha, your not alone there. I take solace in knowing that as an intp, I have no desire to lead or follow anybody and therefore have no intention of being either dominant or submissive. So now I don't care whether people think im a fucking weakling, I leave that sort of thinking to the more
Primitive types who I couldn't care less about.

For me respect comes from how intelligent someone is and their value/moral systems, not how long they can look me in the eye (I've found alpha males respect other dominant males regardless of there smarts eg-footies). Of course this is different towards females, whom I must also find physically attractive.

 

[Bird]

We were in a bar, he was smoking, blowing
it in my face. He and you think alike (;

 

[Col]

When I was quite young, about 15 or so, I was in an IT lesson. In this lesson I used to sit next to a lad who now in retrospect I think was perhaps ENFP. In school I was always one of the cleverer ones, although I did get in quite a bit of trouble. He was one of the people who was always in trouble, smoking etc, but he wasnt unintelligent either. Anyway enough with the background... One day he told me that I couldnt look anyone in the eye while speaking to them. I was like.. sure I can! So it was put to the test. I had to look him in the eyes and then say something. The moment I opened my mouth I instantly looked away. I was shocked! I physically could not do it... but with a bit of mind over matter I managed it once. It felt so strange! Ever since that day, iv been able to do it. Sometimes when speaking to people though, I feel like im staring or that it is wierd. I now have to make a concious effort not to look people in the eyes!!

 

[Lobstrich]

@ OP - Yes and no. With strangers I don't look in their eyes unless I'm talking to them, or I try not to. It's obviously unavoidable sometimes. But if I'm having a conversation I have no trouble looking people in the eyes. But I still get this feeling sometimes that it just gets "too intense" so I after looking them in the eye for a while, I start looking elsewhere. And then back at the eyes some time after.

I feel a lot like http://intpforum.com/member.php?u=519Ifloatthrulife actually. In terms of the signs that I think eye contact send out.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Can you INTPs do it naturally with strangers? Does it get better with age?

It took years of practice, but, it got easier for me.

Dave

 

[basickatie]

I've always had the problem, but have forced myself into looking people in the eye everywhere. I repeat a mantra in my mind while I'm out -
"walk with confidence and purpose"
you keep your head up,
now you look like a dominant person.
fake it.
force it.
and smile so you don't look like an ass.
usually they smile back.

 

[basickatie]

@ OP - Yes and no. With strangers I don't look in their eyes unless I'm talking to them, or I try not to. It's obviously unavoidable sometimes. But if I'm having a conversation I have no trouble looking people in the eyes. But I still get this feeling sometimes that it just gets "too intense" so I after looking them in the eye for a while, I start looking elsewhere. And then back at the eyes some time after.

I feel a lot like http://intpforum.com/member.php?u=519Ifloatthrulife actually. In terms of the signs that I think eye contact send out.

I am no good with holding eye contact while having a conversation with anyone. but i am good at staring. i'm complex.

 

[Lobstrich]

i'm complex.

Most people are