"Everything happens for a reason"

[cockroach king]

This absolutely drives me nuts. Unfortunately, I am often surrounded by a good number of F types who throw this phrase out like an ivory box of philosophical insight.

If you literally mean that everything is caused by something, fine.

That's not what people mean when they say this though, they are talking about some divine plan that gives everyone a happy ending in the end, a claim that has exactly 0 evidence.

I feel like I'm in Catcher in the Rye where everyone around me is committing intellectual suicide to make themselves feel better

This kind of stuff is driving me insane, how do I tolerate these people?

 

[Brontosaurie]

you read much smarter more credible stuff into their braindead maxims, and then proceed to live and let live.

 

[Jennywocky]

This absolutely drives me nuts. Unfortunately, I am often surrounded by a good number of F types who throw this phrase out like an ivory box of philosophical insight.

If you literally mean that everything is caused by something, fine.

That's not what people mean when they say this though, they are talking about some divine plan that gives everyone a happy ending in the end, a claim that has exactly 0 evidence.

I feel like I'm in Catcher in the Rye where everyone around me is committing intellectual suicide to make themselves feel better

This kind of stuff is driving me insane, how do I tolerate these people?

I dunno. But I'm sure it's happening for a reason.













I would just explain your POV and then let it go. They're saying what they think, so you can say what you think. Keep it detached and personal, as if you are explaining how you view things, without directly attacking them.

Getting into a heated battle over it usually just pisses everyone off, rather than getting them to rethink.

 

[Grayman]

It is a matter of believing in the Almighty all knowing and powerful God who killed your family so that you would come closer to him.

It makes a lot of sense once you put up a few mental walls and ignore some key points and start to just feel the LOVE!

 

[Jennywocky]

^^ ... well, you'll all be together in heaven, so....?

 

[Reality is Optional]

I have the same problem you do. Instead of getting frustrated, I try to tell myself that their beliefs have essentially become a security blanket they couldn't cope without. It is, for some of them, mentally impossible for them to ever understand where I'm coming from. As a result, I try to stay away from those type of conversations, and if they ever do come up, just nod and smile.

 

[nanook]

use thinking to develop empathy (theory of mind) about these people.

their statements are often really much more meaningful, than you give credit for, but are formulated "incorrectly", however this mistake is like an encryption, if both participants are wired in the same way, inclined towards the same "incorrect" interpretation (language), then the intended meaning is transmitted, which is why the comment is often received with gratitude.

unencrypted version:

"heads up. if life gives you lemons, you will find a way to make lemon juice from it, because you create meaning in your life and that is sweet. bitter sweet, but sweet."

or even more unencrypted:

"everything will have the meaning, that you are about to invent automatically, when i remind you of the possibility. if the loss of your family brings you closer to spiritual autonomy, aka god, because you use the opportunity to find a home in yourself, instead of looking for a replacement family, then you have invented reason. unconsciously. "


feeling types are actually good at doing this.
consciously or unconsciously, depending on their stage.

and Ti doms tend to be borderline-retarded at it. judging by what i have seen on this board. many would just use workaholism to pretend that nothing has happened, when their family get's wiped out. superior objectivity, aha.

> "you read much smarter more credible stuff into their braindead maxims, and then proceed to live and let live. "

hahaha

like looking at the tombstone of a baby and thinking: this one intended to walk the earth. it's true. even though it had no concept of walking. it tried.

 

[Bock]

and Ti doms tend to be borderline-retarded at it.

Yeah the problem is surely not with the people who say something and mean something else

 

[nanook]

nope, all problems are thy own

(a typical Ti response)

 

[redbaron]

Yeah the problem is surely not with the people who say something and mean something else

What are you talking about? INTP's are the undisputed gods of doing this. You even did it just now.

 

[Black Rose]

reason is a mental attribute so just attribute mind to the universe and it reasons all things into existence

all is mental is idealism

 

[Anktark]

Your patience, temper, will and intelligence are being tested. Those people have been placed in your life for a reason. Just as you were placed in theirs. I hope this helped.

 

[Bock]

What are you talking about? INTP's are the undisputed gods of doing this. You even did it just now.

Irony versus life advice

Your patience, temper, will and intelligence are being tested. Those people have been placed in your life for a reason. Just as you were placed in theirs. I hope this helped.

placed

for a reason

 

[Jennywocky]

Right after I posted earlier in this thread, my mom sent me an email. Her medical procedure on Wednesday was canceled because someone in the doctor's family died, so he's flying to the funeral, so now she can come to my son's singing concert on Sunday since she won't be recuperating and how excited she was over getting to come and even having people available to bring her.

She said, "God knew all about this so I believe this is the way it is to be."

I don't think she realizes the insinuations of what she is saying, much of the time. At this point, I'm kind of used to it and know she doesn't mean anything by it; some people just have this view entrenched.

 

[The Grey Man]

...maxims....

This word (rather, what it describes) interests me deeply...

...particularly as it relates to implicit suggestions for your perception of the world.

More often than not, a maxim is used when the speaker has no desire or is unable to articulate the underlying principles of an idea.

This type of speech is not restricted to the use of maxims however. What I wish to describe generally is the use of language whose essential meaning is not understood as it is used by the speaker, who is thus relying on the intuitive meaning of their words to communicate.

And this fits within an even broader pattern of behaviour: the assumption of like-mindedness, or at least the ability of the listener to "clue in to the truth."

When he who addresses me fails to explicitly define his moral proposition, instead acting as if he invokes some objective authority (even if some authority exists physically), I cannot abide it.

I take issue with people who bristle at my most minute deviation from the course of action I "ought" to take, based on their projection of values, especially when I know that they have little regard for the ends to which rules are means, and just want to live in their own little organized world where people are compelled to unthinking observation of tradition and convention.

/incoherent venting

 

[Badec]

I believe everything is more of consequence, as opposed to being for a reason. Reap what you sow, and all that cool stuff.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

I like to flip this saying to: Life circumstances give you an opportunity to imbue your own meaning to your struggles.

 

[nanook]

i think it's a high standard, if you expect people to say what they mean. you can't live up to it. people don't know what they mean most of the time. to know something is to say it silently in your head, to know a "meaning" is to put it in language, but meaning making does not originate in language, language is always just the end product, a bit like houses are the endproduct of stone masonry, they are made out of stones, all right, but stones ain't houses. we can think something through, then we can claim that we know what we mean, then we can repeat that thing over and over again. but if you respond to challenges of life spontaneously, that is not an option, you need to create new meaning on the flow. and it's not just arising meaning and approved & finished thoughts in your mind, you have building blocks that are more like half finished thoughts fragments and chain them together creatively to create new meaning. think of typology. what do you even mean when you say Ti? you think you know it? ahaha. i have been thinking it through for years and i am not finished yet. nevertheless the yet to be figured out meaning of it is very functional in my mind, so i won't be resentful of it.

 

[computerhxr]

This absolutely drives me nuts. Unfortunately, I am often surrounded by a good number of F types who throw this phrase out like an ivory box of philosophical insight.

If you literally mean that everything is caused by something, fine.

That's not what people mean when they say this though, they are talking about some divine plan that gives everyone a happy ending in the end, a claim that has exactly 0 evidence.

I feel like I'm in Catcher in the Rye where everyone around me is committing intellectual suicide to make themselves feel better

This kind of stuff is driving me insane, how do I tolerate these people?

Isn't "everything happens for a reason" similar to saying "cause and effect"? I think the consensus misrepresent this to mean "purpose and effect". Same concept, different interpretation.

Physics determines that there is an equal or opposite force. So they believe in a natural phenomenon and are claiming the force is god instead of physics. Two different schools of thought. One is very abstract, the other is ridged.

To me, it means that you should expect consequences for your actions. Or to the same effect, there may be benefits of your actions.

 

[Jennywocky]

Isn't "everything happens for a reason" similar to saying "cause and effect"? I think the consensus misrepresent this to mean "purpose and effect". Same concept, different interpretation.

Physics determines that there is an equal or opposite force. So they believe in a natural phenomenon and are claiming the force is god instead of physics. Two different schools of thought. One is very abstract, the other is ridged.

To me, it means that you should expect consequences for your actions. Or to the same effect, there may be benefits of your actions.

I think the main complaint is when people to use it to basically appeal to the Big Guy in the Sky (as in, "He has a plan for you, and everything that just happened that is invariably bad has some wonderful reason for occurring which you might one day learn so just have faith hallelujah").

I don't have an issue with cause/effect, i think it's the governing law here in the material world and in fact is my primary view; but I wouldn't label it as "karma" either.

 

[Direwolf]

My brother gave me sage advice. He said everything doesnt happen for a reason which is "god", everything is a consequence of someone elses action whether it is yours or someone in a far away land. A smoker doesnt get lung cancer because god willed it they get lun cancer because they smoked. The nukes didnt hit hiroshima and nagasaki cause god was like "meh" they hit them because a certain party wanted to make sure they didnt go into the war again.

Said examples might not be 100% accurate but since your all smart people, you get what i mean.

 

[StevenM]

The only reason I would be annoyed by this, is when said people use it to shirk responsibility of their actions, like computerhxr said.

When grieving for something no one had control of, I can see the power of a greater purpose ideal.

I have also seen it used though as a means to avoid thinking about one's consequences of their actions. Their wisdom seems to evolve too slowly.

 

[computerhxr]

My brother gave me sage advice. He said everything doesnt happen for a reason which is "god", everything is a consequence of someone elses action whether it is yours or someone in a far away land. A smoker doesnt get lung cancer because god willed it they get lun cancer because they smoked. The nukes didnt hit hiroshima and nagasaki cause god was like "meh" they hit them because a certain party wanted to make sure they didnt go into the war again.

Said examples might not be 100% accurate but since your all smart people, you get what i mean.

Exactly! Everyone just has a different internal model for interpreting reality. If your internal model is god, then everything else in reality will be twisted to fit the model. If your model is calculus, then everything else in reality will be twisted to fit this model. Neither model accurately represents reality so both are just abstractions of similar phenomena.

The purpose of the saying should be interpreted to this effect:

Actions have consequences. (cause and effect, a catalyst, tip the first domino)

You should accept the consequences of your actions. (dominoes are falling)

If you cannot change the consequences, even if your actions caused them, then let it go. (can't stop them from falling, so focus your energy on something productive)

Perpetuating a causal effect is a catalyst to other effects. (don't be reactive, be proactive)

I can go on and on...

Reactive = no free will, proactive = choice.

You can interpret that to mean god's will. So they are taking the "proactive" approach to choose to let god's will determine reality. This is paradoxical because allowing god's will to overpower your own is the same as no will. So their interpretation is incorrect, and the correct interpretation would be to be proactive instead of reactive.

 

[Jennywocky]

My brother gave me sage advice. He said everything doesnt happen for a reason which is "god", everything is a consequence of someone elses action whether it is yours or someone in a far away land. A smoker doesnt get lung cancer because god willed it they get lun cancer because they smoked. The nukes didnt hit hiroshima and nagasaki cause god was like "meh" they hit them because a certain party wanted to make sure they didnt go into the war again.

Said examples might not be 100% accurate but since your all smart people, you get what i mean.

Yeah, that falls under what I would label cause/effect. (There's even some variability there -- my dad smoked enough for the first 40 years of his life that he was coughing up blood since his late 30's... but he never got lung cancer. This kind of thing can make it hard sometimes to recognize cause/effect. But everything's part of the system, so if you ping something in the system, the vibration travels throughout.)

 

[computerhxr]

Yeah, that falls under what I would label cause/effect. (There's even some variability there -- my dad smoked enough for the first 40 years of his life that he was coughing up blood since his late 30's... but he never got lung cancer. This kind of thing can make it hard sometimes to recognize cause/effect. But everything's part of the system, so if you ping something in the system, the vibration travels throughout.)

I like your idea of pinging the system, and the vibrations travelling throughout the system. A high vibration lifestyle is likely to result in cancer or other radioactive effects.

He probably also worked hard, and got healthy amounts of sunlight, was relaxed, and ate foods with anti-oxidants. So the cause/effect of these other actions caused him to avoid getting cancer.

If you smoke, eat like crap, and never exercise you will most likely get more than one type of cancer. It's the overall cause and effect of many different things. Most things have almost no effect if taken in moderation. Just do the math and see what you can get away with and where to draw the line.

 

[StevenM]

If you smoke, eat like crap, and never exercise you will most likely get more than one type of cancer.