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Everything CT

Artsu Tharaz

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Your mistyping of me is concerning, and a barrier (not too major) in accepting your ideas.

Now, I would say my video ("Discussing MBTI - INFJ?") was a bit misleading, in that about 2/3 of it (from around 1 minute to 7 minutes) was Ti based, but how you could get Ne from that is a bit beyond me at the moment. There might be something I'm missing, like maybe parallel cognitive processes overlapping so that the Ne from say, my ESTJ or INFP cognition (if my model of multiple function orders is correct, that is) was being displayed - however what this means overall:

You are identifying function use, but don't seem to be recognising where in a person's stack the respective function lies. So, even though my Ti is tertiary, you were unable to notice this fact, and supposed it to be in the top 2, since it formed the majority of the video.

Given that, in my view, we use all 8 functions, and it is often not so much a difference in quantity, but in quality which distinguishes their position in a stack, I can't find that I have too much agreement with your overall method of typing.
 

QuickTwist

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Your mistyping of me is concerning, and a barrier (not too major) in accepting your ideas.

Now, I would say my video ("Discussing MBTI - INFJ?") was a bit misleading, in that about 2/3 of it (from around 1 minute to 7 minutes) was Ti based, but how you could get Ne from that is a bit beyond me at the moment. There might be something I'm missing, like maybe parallel cognitive processes overlapping so that the Ne from say, my ESTJ or INFP cognition (if my model of multiple function orders is correct, that is) was being displayed - however what this means overall:

You are identifying function use, but don't seem to be recognising where in a person's stack the respective function lies. So, even though my Ti is tertiary, you were unable to notice this fact, and supposed it to be in the top 2, since it formed the majority of the video.

Given that, in my view, we use all 8 functions, and it is often not so much a difference in quantity, but in quality which distinguishes their position in a stack, I can't find that I have too much agreement with your overall method of typing.

How do you know you haven't mistyped yourself? I mean I think people can pretty much type themselves whatever they want. But when you have objective material you are dealing with, its hard to argue with. Not saying Auburn has objective material on you either.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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How do you know you haven't mistyped yourself? I mean I think people can pretty much type themselves whatever they want. But when you have objective material you are dealing with, its hard to argue with. Not saying Auburn has objective material on you either.

Eh it's hard to explain fully but I'm somewhat able to "see" it now, both through text, video and by looking at how my mind functions.

It comes down to function order: a section of thought is initiated by the dominant function, and then moves into the auxiliary and then tertiary then inferior. So, if you can map text to function at least somewhat well, then the function order becomes clear.

So, for me, I see the Ni-Fe-Ti-Se function order manifest quite clearly.
 

QuickTwist

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Eh it's hard to explain fully but I'm somewhat able to "see" it now, both through text, video and by looking at how my mind functions.

It comes down to function order: a section of thought is initiated by the dominant function, and then moves into the auxiliary and then tertiary then inferior. So, if you can map text to function at least somewhat well, then the function order becomes clear.

So, for me, I see the Ni-Fe-Ti-Se function order manifest quite clearly.

And what if someone doesn't have an order of functions that fits so nicely into a box? What if someone has Fi-Ni-Se-Ti?
 

Artsu Tharaz

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And what if someone doesn't have an order of functions that fits so nicely into a box? What if someone has Fi-Ni-Se-Ti?

Then I would probably end up misreading them as Fe-Ni-Se-Ti and hence use incorrect data points to better understand how Fe works and get confused as a result.

I'm not expecting that to happen, though.

If it were conclusively shown that someone uses a function order outside of the norm, then this would have important ramifications for the theory as a whole.
 

TheManBeyond

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Your mistyping of me is concerning, and a barrier (not too major) in accepting your ideas.

Now, I would say my video ("Discussing MBTI - INFJ?") was a bit misleading, in that about 2/3 of it (from around 1 minute to 7 minutes) was Ti based, but how you could get Ne from that is a bit beyond me at the moment. There might be something I'm missing, like maybe parallel cognitive processes overlapping so that the Ne from say, my ESTJ or INFP cognition (if my model of multiple function orders is correct, that is) was being displayed - however what this means overall:

You are identifying function use, but don't seem to be recognising where in a person's stack the respective function lies. So, even though my Ti is tertiary, you were unable to notice this fact, and supposed it to be in the top 2, since it formed the majority of the video.

Given that, in my view, we use all 8 functions, and it is often not so much a difference in quantity, but in quality which distinguishes their position in a stack, I can't find that I have too much agreement with your overall method of typing.

i was also going to say you gave me Ne vibes when u posted your pic in the right now thread, cuz i was looking at the vultology code in Auburn's website but i didn't want to start a fight :D

what i can say is that i find auburn's work interesting at least, even tho i see contradictions here and there as in everything related to typology

For example, today i was randomly checking interviews by trent reznor, the engine behind nine inch nails, i never really hear him talking about his stuff, and i haven't listened that much to his band either besides hurt and closer which are top songs
but as soon as i got to see these two videos it popped in my head that this is so subjective, specially when looking at the vultology code.
From what i read there this first video shows quite a few more Ne trait than Ni. In fact it reminded of the way i act when being in a conversation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JXFCq5QaE0

but then this one, a few years later, Ni all the way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAGtlgwFdhM

at some level it seems it reduces everything to, hey you look naive, Ne, you look Deep, Ni.
but is it really as superficial as that?
also, i had a gf who had quite of what you would call hypnotic eyes and was the most crazy Pe dom ever, dunno if Ne or Se but she was all about new experiences and going to visit every place on planet earth and collecting rocks from the beach to remember the moments.
:D
for the sake of science!
 

QuickTwist

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LOL, Trent is a guy not fit for a box, really. Its hard to categorize someone that is always changing and always evolving.
 

QuickTwist

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Then I would probably end up misreading them as Fe-Ni-Se-Ti and hence use incorrect data points to better understand how Fe works and get confused as a result.

I'm not expecting that to happen, though.

If it were conclusively shown that someone uses a function order outside of the norm, then this would have important ramifications for the theory as a whole.

I mean... The functions themselves are nothing concrete. But then to say that they HAVE to fit a specific order is kinda short sighted. I don't think Jung thought it worked the way the system has evolved.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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^Reznor is an INFJ right? (going by those videos; I type by the words someone says)

How do you type yourself, TMB? (all I know of your type for pretty much certain is that you share the same type as one of my friends, but I'm not sure of his type)

I mean... The functions themselves are nothing concrete. But then to say that they HAVE to fit a specific order is kinda short sighted. I don't think Jung thought it worked the way the system has evolved.

What do you mean by not concrete? They're states of mind, and can be viewed in many ways.

Jung was only just finding out about this stuff, there's no reason that his view of the system really needs to be taken into account if we have better ways of doing it.

I say they have to fit that order because... that is what I am observing. I am seeing function order manifest over and over again just as it is told.

--

Actually what I find more significant, is not that functions tend to cycle in a formulaic way, but that most cognition falls under the banner of one of the 8 functions.

I want to find ways of thinking that move outside of the scope of the functions - I know such cognition exists, but I don't quite know what it consists of. (I might make a thread for this, actually)
 

TheManBeyond

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^Reznor is an INFJ right? (going by those videos; I type by the words someone says)

How do you type yourself, TMB?

Celebrity types says he's ISFP
I always had a hunch that i was a Ni type but people keep labelling me as a Ne dom, normally they go with ENFPs but i don't relate to their descriptions that much, i don't consider myself a person who's good at understanding others feelings, i'm rather bad at listening. I have been called insensitive by almost all of my exgfs, not because i say mean things but because i don't know how to match their emotions and give emotional support, in don't know how to abstractly talk about emotions if that makes sense? so i just give practical advice.
Also one of them said i had a problem at expressing my emotions. Emotions not equal to excitement or drive for something you want. The way i deal with my feelings is rather childish, like a kid with a lollipop, extremely impulsive and not deep at all.
What i can say is that i am without a doubt a P type, i was thinking lately i could be a ISFP but they seem too little expressive for what i am so i've been thinking about ENTP, ESFP and ESTP.
This by having as a primordial rule the assumption that by definition J types have their shit together and are able to fit within different scenarios.
I consider the lack of those my main basic characteristics.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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Celebrity types says he's ISFP
I always had a hunch that i was a Ni type but people keep labelling me as a Ne dom, normally they go with ENFPs but i don't relate to their descriptions that much, i don't consider myself a person who's good at understanding others feelings, i'm rather bad at listening. I have been called insensitive by almost all of my exgfs, not because i say mean things but because i don't know how to match their emotions and give emotional support, in don't know how to abstractly talk about emotions if that makes sense? so i just give practical advice.
Also one of them said i had a problem at expressing my emotions. Emotions not equal to excitement or drive for something you want. The way i deal with my feelings is rather childish, like a kid with a lollipop, extremely impulsive and not deep at all.
What i can say is that i am without a doubt a P type, i was thinking lately i could be a ISFP but they seem too little expressive for what i am so i've been thinking about ENTP, ESFP and ESTP.
This by having as a primordial rule the assumption that by definition J types have their shit together and are able to fit within different scenarios.
I consider the lack of those my main basic characteristics.

Celebrity types is BS lol

I'll most likely get around to doing a more careful analysis of you at some point, but have you considered INFJ? I don't think J's necessarily have their shit together, I'm lazy as hell.

(hm, I feel that we're getting too off topic now)

+ I'll add that lacking skills in emotional support can just be a male thing, since we're generally not encouraged in that regard, but that listening skills are associated especially with Fi
 

kora

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TMB reminds me kind of in attitude of my ENFP friend. I don't see Ni in you. I don't think Fi entails great listeners either, maybe if it's the first function then yeah, all it means in his case is he likes describing how he feels and pays a lot of attention to it, but he's pretty self centered. Like if he is in a bad mood he will just leave without saying goodbye, or he'll describe in detail how something makes him feel or how his life is. He's aware of how he makes others feel to some extent but it's not like a necessity to make the atmosphere welcoming or whatever like it can be with Fe. Dominant Ne is obvious he's highly imaginative and playful.


But the way you're describing yourself now I see you as ESTP ESFP. You have the same spontaneous vibe as him which could be Se or Ne dom (or what you call P) Ur not ISFP, they feel more "gentle" than u seem. I would guess at your second function being Fi from my superficial experience of you on the forum. I don't know ESTP much though so I haven't gotten a sense of them so much so you could be that too.

ESFP are really cool imo.

I wondered about alternate cognitive orders, i thought I met an Ne Te once but I think they're Ne Ti now. Imagine being like Ne Ni lol

As for the guy who changed over time, I think as you mature you become more balanced, so cognitive functions should be more obvious in a way in younger people maybe ?
 

QuickTwist

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redbaron

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Good thing we didn't turn this into a typing thread.

Problem with CT is that it's way too hard to look past the circular data verification.

> Bobble head is Ne
> look 4 bobble hed
> dis wun is entp
> rinse and repeat until have many bobble hedz
> look @ my robust data

This stuff would just get shredded by any kind of scientific scrutiny. Not aiming to discourage but it's a very real issue that CT relies first on MBTI and doesn't have its own method of establishing a control group for any kind of study that would actually have scientific merit.

It's cool and all to say that you should approach CT scientifically but it's pretty hard when the data isn't even remotely worthy of being called science. Kudos for putting in a lot of effort, but I think the methodology needs...much more refinement to ever be considered something empirically valid in any way.
 

redbaron

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I actually think CT would be much more valuable if it didn't try to correlate things with MBTI or Jungian terminology or descriptors, and instead simply grouped them according to what actual data indicates.

It falls apart and becomes shit right at the starting line because it begins with the assumption that the CT observations will fit into MBTI personality descriptors. That's a very absurd and unscientific leap to make from step 0 and it's just ridiculous to refer to this as scientific.

It COULD be really good and (potentialy) scientifically viable, but not with the current methodology.
 

QuickTwist

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I was thinking the same thing, rb, but I didn't want to be an asshole...
 

redbaron

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I mean just to be somewhat helpful, the first problem that you should be tackling is really:

"How do we establish a control group?"

Even then it's still all very subjective and I don't even know how you'd go about establishing one... but if you could, it'd immediately make this the most robust and useful personality/typology method around.

But the only real way to establish control groups is to use brains and neurons... Which is why Dario Nardi does that, instead of this.
 

QuickTwist

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But the only real way to establish control groups is to use brains and neurons... Which is why Dario Nardi does that, instead of this.

No, has more to do with his life path, tbh.
 

Auburn

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@redbaron - Thanks for the feedback.

So, I know what you're saying. The phenomenon being described here actually needs no prior framework of reference to be observed. When you look at the videos (like the TeSi one), you'll see that the clustering of visual qualities and cognitive qualities happens on its own, void of any specific language scaffold.

But it's only via language that we can really understand it; so a taxonomy gets applied. This is not unscientific, this is entirely to be expected. As I pointed out to Gopher earlier in the thread:

I would actually totally support a double-checking of CT theory starting from zero premise/models. In fact, CT started out precisely that way (but it became far too tedious and time consuming for us to do it manually (i.e. we need computers/programming to really crunch statistics)).

In whatever case, I would hypothesize that such an approach would have to arrive at a similar conclusion/clustering, because these signals cluster themselves together without the need for a model to be applied onto them. And I'm not just saying this; I can demonstrate this organic clustering.
It does seem suspicious that I would affiliate an experiment like this with Jung's archaic concepts (btw, this isn't mbti this is a sister theory to mbti just like socionics is). This just happens to be where the theory came out; but it's long since taken on a life of it's own.

For example, the majority of the terms in CT theory are entirely new, and this is because they had to be created to describe things hitherto lacking terms. So it's really incorrect to say CT has just taken mbti and tried to reverse-justify it. CT has been following its own trajectory of research, following the evidence. But most psychology theories start out with a scaffold or hypothesis, then that is put to the test and what survives the rigor of testing is what remains accepted.

This has already happened, and CT abandons many concepts that aren't represented in the data; leaving only what can be verified. I kid you not, every concept in CT is simultaneously visual and psychological -- so that there's minimal semantic ambiguity.

But the same whittling-down process will certainly happen further to CT, as others test it in more rigorous ways. I don't expect 100% of it to pass the rigor of testing, but having tested these ideas myself and found them consistent, I do expect a fair bit of it to be verified and pave the way toward a higher understanding of psychic differences. But without a starting point --- and starting hypotheses --- it's often a lot harder to structure even the research itself.

So "CT" isn't a closed system/theory or an endpoint in itself, CT is a vehicle to deliver a new information medium to the world; aimed to be assimilated eventually into the rest of our (presently rather sparse) understanding of human psychology.

I realize CT is making a lot of claims all at once. But each claim can be succinctly delineated and independently put to the test. I'll try to explain what I mean.

#1: Hemispheric Dominance (Right/Left) and Closure vs Openness

[bimgx=300]http://imgur.com/FFaERYe.jpg[/bimgx]

There's been plenty of research that points to a legitimate specialization of brain hemispheres in our human anatomy. Added to that, certain people have higher brain activity in one hemisphere over the other, and this demonstrates in temperamental differences.

What CT would postulate is that the people that demonstrate the highest concentration of "J" signals would also demonstrate the highest levels of activity in the left hemisphere, and "P" types in the right hemisphere.

#2: Extroversion & Introversion (Brain Activity Levels)

I believe research also exists, which Nardi also points to, suggesting that introverted people show higher brain activity in a default state, and excessive activity in a stimulated state. Inversely, extroverts show low activity in a default state (i.e. boredom) and medium activity in a stimulated state.

CT postulates that those who show a high concentration of introverted signals (Ji & Pi) would show brain activity that matches this, and vice versa for extroverts.

----

These first two, if verified, compound to create four types of people which actually correspond generally to the four Humors. They would actually create categories of their own, which have predicted personality traits that can be verified further:

#3: Four Temperaments

a. Right Hemisphere + Extroverted [Pe]

Expected Signals:
* Alert/Wide Eyes
* Darting Eyes
* Perk Ups
* Bubbling Momentum
* Body Swaying

Expected Psychology: Unorganized, spontaneous, adaptable, creative, impulsive, artistic, improvisational, etc.

b. Right Hemisphere + Introverted [Pi]:

Expected Signals:
* Inertial Energy
* Fixed Gaze
* Diagonal Drifts
* Worldview Rambling
* Searching Scowling

Expected Psychology: Relaxed, referential, peaceful, open-ended, reserved, prone to think in narratives, etc.

c. Left Hemisphere + Extroversion [Je]:

Expected Signals:
* Head Nods
* Head Shakes
* Shoulder Shrugs
* Pointed Emphasis
* Projecting Hands

Expected Psychology: Organized, charismatic, methodical, articulate, controlling, leader-like, etc.

d. Left Hemisphere + Introversion [Ji]:

Expected Signals:
* Receding Energy
* Disengaging Eyes
* Exerted Push
* Momentum Halting
* Meticulous Hands

Expected Psychology: Withdrawn, analytical, serious, particular/finicky, reflective, precise, etc.

~~

So we can suppose that if 4 out of 5 signals are prominently present in a person, consistently across multiple video sessions, said person would be hypothesized to have the personality traits listed in that category. This can be verified or negated. If verified, then that means we can predict at least this much about personality from video footage alone.

So then if a new person shows all signals of Pe and P in general, then if put under a brain scan we would expect to see high levels of brain activity in general, and stronger activity in the right hemisphere.

And as you can see I'm making very specific claims, quantifiable down to individual signals/motions. So CT isn't lacking in the precision department, at least I don't think. I don't know how much more methodological vigor we want to insert.

I mean just to be somewhat helpful, the first problem that you should be tackling is really:

"How do we establish a control group?"

Even then it's still all very subjective and I don't even know how you'd go about establishing one... but if you could, it'd immediately make this the most robust and useful personality/typology method around.

But the only real way to establish control groups is to use brains and neurons... Which is why Dario Nardi does that, instead of this.
I wonder if the above adequately answers this, hmmm.
I do need help structuring an actual experiment though.
I did buy an EEG device, to do my own preliminary testing of this sort. And I finally have the funds to buy the missing electrodes too.

But yeah. When I actually read about the methodological procedures of most psychology studies, I find them laughable. o.O A lot of it is just questioning the subject, getting their interpretation of things, etc.

We need way more than that.
 

QuickTwist

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@Auburn,

I don't have a problem with your signals or psychology, but dominant hemisphere's and that leading to logical/emotional dominance is a myth.
 

Auburn

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@Quicktwist - Yes, it was debunked that left/right hemisphere is related to logical vs emotional dominance.

But the latest understanding of brain hemispheres is more complicated; essentially being more about narrowing/closure/conclusion versus amorphous/receptive/alert-to-novelty/interpretation. This video describes it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFs9WO2B8uI

This is how the mind works, and it just so happens we abbreviate this difference as "judgment" vs "perception" but we can swap out the language and it'd make no difference. The psychological qualities described as left hemispheric are precisely those that we see in people who have a very strong concentration of J (specifically Je) signals:

vwvkAdd.gif


zQwky40.gif


Sustained
Delineated Language
Power to manipulate the:
- known
- fixed
- static
- decontextualized
- explicit

Think of a judge, or an officer, or any sort of person in a CEO position and think of their body language. Rigid, astute, militant like the sharp swings of a sword. This is by no accident.

~~

Inversely, the qualities described as the right hemisphere are precisely those we see in people who have strong P (specifically Pe) signals:

yDrHkUP.gif


IzEuL2l.gif


Changing
Evolving
Interconnected
Implicit
Incarnate

Think of the musician or artisan stereotypes, with their amorphous, uncertain bodily expression. Fluid in a way, passive in others. Open-ended and transient. The guitar player on the corner. Or the actress. Or the improviser or opportunist.
 

QuickTwist

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Interesting.

Who is the psychiatrist in the video who is speaking?

Based on what he has said, I am far more right brained.
 

Black Rose

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Auburn, if I am INFJ then by your new findings my right hemisphere is introverted and my left hemisphere is extroverted. How does this match up to the video you present "The Divided Brain"?

Also I think my depression could be giving me ADD symptoms. How does energy and emotion fit into cognitive type?

I am also interested in chris langan
 

OmoInisa

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@Quicktwist - Yes, it was debunked that left/right hemisphere is related to logical vs emotional dominance.

But the latest understanding of brain hemispheres is more complicated; essentially being more about narrowing/closure/conclusion versus amorphous/receptive/alert-to-novelty/interpretation. This video describes it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFs9WO2B8uI

This is how the mind works, and it just so happens we abbreviate this difference as "judgment" vs "perception" but we can swap out the language and it'd make no difference. The psychological qualities described as left hemispheric are precisely those that we see in people who have a very strong concentration of J (specifically Je) signals:

vwvkAdd.gif


zQwky40.gif


Sustained
Delineated Language
Power to manipulate the:
- known
- fixed
- static
- decontextualized
- explicit

Think of a judge, or an officer, or any sort of person in a CEO position and think of their body language. Rigid, astute, militant like the sharp swings of a sword. This is by no accident.

~~

Inversely, the qualities described as the right hemisphere are precisely those we see in people who have strong P (specifically Pe) signals:

yDrHkUP.gif


IzEuL2l.gif


Changing
Evolving
Interconnected
Implicit
Incarnate

Think of the musician or artisan stereotypes, with their amorphous, uncertain bodily expression. Fluid in a way, passive in others. Open-ended and transient. The guitar player on the corner. Or the actress. Or the improviser or opportunist.
Fascinating
 

Auburn

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Auburn, if I am INFJ then by your new findings my right hemisphere is introverted and my left hemisphere is extroverted. How does this match up to the video you present "The Divided Brain"?

Hm? The introverted/extroverted neural activity is brain-wide, from what I've read. I don't know that specific hemispheres can be intro/extro.

Also I think my depression could be giving me ADD symptoms. How does energy and emotion fit into cognitive type?
Emotions, depression, anxiety, and other conditions are presently outside the domain of CT. But I have looked into it briefly. The only thing I can say with some conviction is that (and Jung first introduced this idea), mania/hysteria is a type of rampant extroversion and depression is a type of excessive introversion. He phrased it this way:
"To this extent, extraversion and introversion are two modes of psychic reaction which can be observed in the same individual. The fact, however, that two such contrary disturbances as hysteria and schizophrenia are characterized by the predominance of of the mechanism of extraversion or of introversion suggests that there may also be normal human types who are distinguished by the predominance of one or other of the two mechanisms. And indeed, psychiatrists know very well that long before the illness is fully established, the hysterical patient as well as the schizophrenic patient is marked by the predominance of his specific type, which reaches back into the earliest years of childhood."

Psychological Types, par. 862
I don't know enough about schizophrenics yet to say, but I do know that manic and hysterical people often have visually demonstrable extroversion in excess.

I am also interested in chris langan
Interesting person. Without even knowing about his personal life... we can see his vultology has the same attributes (mentioned earlier in the thread) of some form of mental illness:

[bimgx=400]http://imgur.com/R2T2onJ.jpg[/bimgx]

Heaviness of eyes (distinctly different from Ni), which are a mix between being frightened and defeated in spirit... or just apathetic. There's pain there.

Then, looking at videos of him giving an autobiography... well, it becomes quite self evident why he looks this way. Abusive step father, broken home, bullying in childhood, among other tragedies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ak5Lr3qkW0
 

TheManBeyond

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scary guy actually
what do you think about active and passive eyes? we all have got a open minded eye and the vigilant one
 

Black Rose

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Hm? The introverted/extroverted neural activity is brain-wide, from what I've read. I don't know that specific hemispheres can be intro/extro.

But you said J is left brain and P is right brained

If my cognitive type is PiJe (NiFe) then my left brain has high activity and my right brain has low activity. You said extraversion and introversion is about level of stimulation of activity. So to be symmetrical if I is high and E is low and J is left brained and P is right brained. PiJe means my right brain is Introverted (low activity) and my left brain is Extroverted (high activity). If the brain in total (left and right) was one level of activity (high or low) then Cog type would be PiJi and PeJe. See what I mean by the symmetry?

Also, I have mental illness like Langan. I think you said psychosis when you saw my video.

What does excessive introversion look like in the brain?
 

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This is so interesting. I've been browsing the forum these last few days and found your CT website that way. Been reading through bits and pieces, really intriguing. And far more convincing than other visual typing theories I've heard of so far. You do a really thorough job of explaining the reasoning behind typing and providing more convincing evidence, so it sounds way more plausible.

I'm definitely going to keep my eye on this theory of yours, I've already bookmarked that link you gave of all the video samples :p I might even be able to get through all of them eventually, I can be pretty stubborn.
 

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An update on the signals. Added:

@BronzeBlue - You're most welcome! Yes, it's quite a slog. The learning curve is high right now. And so my aim is also to make the learning process as easy as possible for people. :)

To help alleviate this, we've been putting together 10 minute segments of clear footage (no noise/interviewer/misc) for each type. That way people can see the pattern with back-to-back videos without digging through the mindmup. So far we have:

TeSi (ESTJ)
FeSi (ESFJ)
FiSe (ISFP)
TiSe (ISTP)
NeFi (ENFP)
SeFi (ESFP)

 

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@Auburn , oh I'm excited. I'll check it out soon.

As a side note, I was reading through some Ji-leading stuff and it's actually amazing. I can already sort of spot that 'disjointed' internal 'emotion' vs how it plays out on the face in the clips you posted, even though their Fi is secondary. There really is something very specific around the mouth (discounting the bits where it's done purposefully). I think once I've got your theory down enough I'll try my hand at attempting this in real life.
 

Black Rose

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Hi Auburn,

I just was curious on the symmetry of energy levels in the right and left the brain. It seems you did not address that. And I am totally curious of what energy levels you find in my brain. I made several new videos in my thread: New Maps of Hyperspace.
 

Black Rose

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But you said J is left brain and P is right brained

If my cognitive type is PiJe (NiFe) then my left brain has high activity and my right brain has low activity. You said extraversion and introversion is about level of stimulation of activity. So to be symmetrical if I is high and E is low and J is left brained and P is right brained. PiJe means my right brain is Introverted (low activity) and my left brain is Extroverted (high activity). If the brain in total (left and right) was one level of activity (high or low) then Cog type would be PiJi and PeJe. See what I mean by the symmetry?

Also, I have mental illness like Langan. I think you said psychosis when you saw my video.

What does excessive introversion look like in the brain?

Auburn I still have not gotten a response.

First:
E = Low activity
I = High activity
J = Left brain
P = Right brain

Pi = left high activity
Pe = left low activity
Ji = right high activity
Je = right low activity

What CT would postulate is that the people that demonstrate the highest concentration of "J" signals would also demonstrate the highest levels of activity in the left hemisphere, and "P" types in the right hemisphere.

#2: Extroversion & Introversion (Brain Activity Levels)

I believe research also exists, which Nardi also points to, suggesting that introverted people show higher brain activity in a default state, and excessive activity in a stimulated state. Inversely, extroverts show low activity in a default state (i.e. boredom) and medium activity in a stimulated state.

According to the symmetry:

Pi and Ji would mean both hemispheres are in high activity.
Pe and Je would mean both hemispheres are in low activity.

This is impossible since J must be the opposite of P in I and or E.

Example.

Introverted Judgment is low high activity in the left brain.
Extroverted Perception thus must be in low activity in the right brain.

JiPe = IxxP

By the level of activity in both hemispheres, there are 4 possible type JiPe could be.

INTP
INFP
ISTP
ISFP

What do you think Auburn?
Rember what you said in your quote verifies hemispheres J/P and activity levels I/E.
J and P cannot be the same (I or E) so hemispheres must have different activity leveles.
 

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Animekitty - As far as I know the high/ low activity & E/I observation is not localized, but brain-wide. So introverts display a generally higher frequency of activity across the whole brain, not just across the area of their primary function.

Actually, here is an article I wrote up about the essential patterns outlined by Dario Nardi:
http://cognitivetype.com/2016/01/03/type-and-eeg/

Until I can conduct my own EEG studies (working on that), I can only point to what's been done by others.

E = Low activity
I = High activity
J = Left brain
P = Right brain

Pi = left high activity
Pe = left low activity
Ji = right high activity
Je = right low activity
But I should mention nothing in biology is so cut and dry as the above ^ . The brain is by no means reducible to such simple categories, and I suspect the aforementioned tendencies for certain energetics (J/P/E/I) to cause varied activity is more general than specific. What would be most compelling is to identify the precise patterns of each of the cognitive functions at work.
 

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QuickTwist

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Jordan Peterson is an very intelligent man.

Is he more like an INTJ or an INTP? What would you classify him as in both your own typology and big 5 Auburn?
 

Auburn

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Jordan Peterson is FeNi with fully conscious Ti.
Both visually and psychologically.

He has a somewhat suppresive relationship to Pe, but all other functions are conscious. He identifies his own big five as what would correlate with E+N+F+J+neuroticism if translated over cruedly into MBTI.

He knows himself very well, and knows psychology very well too.
 

QuickTwist

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Jordan Peterson is FeNi with fully conscious Ti.
Both visually and psychologically.

He has a somewhat suppresive relationship to Pe, but all other functions are conscious. He identifies his own big five as what would correlate with E+N+F+J+neuroticism if translated over cruedly into MBTI.

He knows himself very well, and knows psychology very well too.

Interesting that I biased him as an introvert and a thinker.

He does deliberate himself rather passionately, I will say that. What made me think INTP was the way he used his hand gestures and what made me think INTJ was because he seems to really like order. Clearly my typing skills are not up to snuff.
 

PmjPmj

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Interesting that I biased him as an introvert and a thinker.

Me too.

Have you subbed to his podcast yet? Definitely worth a listen. I had no idea the bible was so full of interesting titbits pertaining to the nature of the human psyche.
 

QuickTwist

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For me it has partly to do with the fact that he's so damn deliberate with the words he uses.

Have you subbed to his podcast yet? Definitely worth a listen. I had no idea the bible was so full of interesting titbits pertaining to the nature of the human psyche.

No I haven't. I have been occasionally looking through his youtube. IDEK how to listen to a podcast. I should prolly start paying attention to that. Does he have a channel on iTunes?
 

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Auburn said I was INFJ but I am not sure because what if I am just and ENFJ that does not talk much. Jordan Peterson and I both share our insights. I just do so on the internet because my early depression isolated me from people. But if you see my videos I talk almost exactly like him, just not to an audience. (my recent finding is that I have partial simple seizers and psychosis, that should mess up my type reading if I am not mentally healthy)
 

TheManBeyond

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animekitty, stop trying to understand what u are, just be.

XD

sounds like paulo cohelo but, if it's so imposible because of ur mind then just look at it as a game for when u are bored.
i guess u do that already, just try not to cover boredom with mbti more than 15% of the time, do meditation, yoga, read a book, learn Photoshop, learn a language, i dunno.
i'm saying this also to myself.
i could be doing tons of things and here i am. GODDAMN EGO
i need to make money not think about what my type is
 

QuickTwist

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Auburn said I was INFJ but I am not sure because what if I am just and ENFJ that does not talk much. Jordan Peterson and I both share our insights. I just do so on the internet because my early depression isolated me from people. But if you see my videos I talk almost exactly like him, just not to an audience. (my recent finding is that I have partial simple seizers and psychosis, that should mess up my type reading if I am not mentally healthy)

You don't state things with the same fervor, the same intent that Jordan Peterson does tho. I will say there are some similarities within the facial animations that you both exhibit, however - a kind of intenseness that you both exhibit, his are just much more pronounced IMO.
 

PmjPmj

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IDEK how to listen to a podcast. I should prolly start paying attention to that. Does he have a channel on iTunes?

Yeah, I think it's just called 'The Jordan B Peterson Podcast'. iTunes should do the trick.

My work phone is an iPhone, so I have to endure Apple products / solutions. Bleh.
 

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I'm gonna start this thread off deliberately with a polar opposite type; one I think the least amount of members will have personal attachments to. This is what an SeFi looks like via 3 samples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKzAgTpk4F8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deXSDTr3LF4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNZNWj81vYo


I wonder if you guys can see the similarities in the above 3? :cat:

Tip: Try playing all three videos while muted, and scroll up and down the post to see them.

Do any of you know girls like these, or have you ever encountered girls like this before?

Anyone have an idea why most of the imbedded vids & pics aren't showing up for me like the ones referenced above? Kinda annoying. I've checked my settings and allowed popups and whatever basic general stuff a not totally noob would try. Ideas?

I find all of this pretty interesting but I find myself thinking "I don't really need a guide or instruction manual for reading people's expressions and get a good sense of them & their makeup. I just kinda usually know." And then my next thought is that's probably a very typical ESFJ thing to think and not completely accurate.

I wonder if this is the sort of formula will be used in the future to read/type people and utilize that information. Perhaps a shortcut for negotiations (understanding how to speak the other person's language), interrogations, manipulations, etc.
 

Black Rose

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Anyone have an idea why most of the imbedded vids & pics aren't showing up for me like the ones referenced above? Kinda annoying. I've checked my settings and allowed popups and whatever basic general stuff a not totally noob would try. Ideas?

If you take the title of the video, highlight it, then use the link button in the tools bar above the comment box, it will make a text link. But you can only see the link if you use the quote tool. This is what it looks like:

 

QuickTwist

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Yeah, I think it's just called 'The Jordan B Peterson Podcast'. iTunes should do the trick.

My work phone is an iPhone, so I have to endure Apple products / solutions. Bleh.

I found Jordan Peterson's Podcast and I also found, strangely enough, an INTP channel on youtube that is developing an audiobook of 'Maps of Meaning'.
 

PmjPmj

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Yeah, I need that book in my life.

I was listening to one of his talks earlier about finding yourself at 30+, not knowing where you are in life, etc. It resonated. By objective standards I'm doing fine for myself, but internally I'm unhappy with the direction I'm heading in. I guess I'm trying to figure out 'where to now?', but at 31... doors are closing. Hm.
 

TheManBeyond

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U need meaningful experiences to develop yourself.
At least that's the only thing that I have noticed that works.
I changed so much from when I was 22 to now 27. A world. A totally different person.
That came from living with strangers, being part of a foreigner community and doing tons of stuff in other countries.
If you can do it. Don't think twice, go abroad.
 

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I've been trying to catch up on all the previous comments but forgive me if this has already been addressed (on this thread or another on the forum) and I've missed it:

What makes the study of personality types like this so important to us? What is the benefit of this type of information? Most of the psychologists I know aren't very interested in personality types.
 
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