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Everyone is good at mathematics?

Thurlor

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I've been considering the notion that on an unconscious level everyone is good at mathematics, or to be more precise everyone's brains are good at mathematics.

There is mathematics involved in everything we do. Signal processing, movement and cognition are just a few examples.

I'm not sure that any of this means anything. I just thought it was interesting and was wondering what others thought.
 

Tannhauser

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I think one should consider the distinction between mathematical models of natural phenomena like human cognition, and the brain's function in those phenomena. When you are trying to catch a ball flying through the air, you are not actually solving differential equations in your brain. Instead you rely on various lightning-fast heuristics. And surely we cannot say that since a dog's brain performs signal processing, the dog must be good at mathematics.

The interesting part about mathematics, I think, is that the human brain is fundamentally bad at it.
 

Thurlor

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I think one should consider the distinction between mathematical models of natural phenomena like human cognition, and the brain's function in those phenomena.

I think people have it backwards. It's not a mathematical model of nature. Rather, it's a natural/physical expression of a mathematical structure. Maybe that's a distinction without a difference.

When you are trying to catch a ball flying through the air, you are not actually solving differential equations in your brain. Instead you rely on various lightning-fast heuristics. And surely we cannot say that since a dog's brain performs signal processing, the dog must be good at mathematics.

The interesting part about mathematics, I think, is that the human brain is fundamentally bad at it.
I think this is an issue of dualism though I may be misunderstanding you. I believe we are our brain/body. I realise that consciously many people are bad at mathematics but a person is more than their conscious thoughts and actions.
 

Tannhauser

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I think people have it backwards. It's not a mathematical model of nature. Rather, it's a natural/physical expression of a mathematical structure.

What reason do you have to believe such a conjecture?
 

Thurlor

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I can give no rational reason. I only have my intuition to guide me which is fallible.

It seems to me that many natural phenomena can be explained with few mathematical concepts. Mathematics are the 'building blocks' of nature.
 

Turnevies

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This is all a bit ironic in my opinion.

Mathematics as a study is about deriving straightforward consequences from a number of elementary rules, so it is one of the simplest things possible in this sense (it is much simpler than, let's say, life).

A computer contains simple logic elements that are efficient in solving these problems for mathematics.

A human mind consists of neurons, which are by themselves also simple things that follow the laws of physics. Still, unlike in the computer, the neurons as a whole make some complex network, giving rise to conciousness. It is funny in some sense that this much more complex system is no longer so efficient to deal with the simple rules of mathematics.
 

Hadoblado

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Feels like a misuse of intuition.

Ordinarily the argument for intuition is that you're able to take in so much data subconsciously and the gross outcome of all that data becomes apparent to your consciousness. It's useful in processing data your conscious mind did not or could not process because consciousness is in such high demand.

But for this, there's a lack of evidence for your subconscious to witness. What's more, while all it would take for a mathematical model to be born from nature is observation of a consistent pattern, it's not so easy to explain how nature would spring forth from maths, as maths is not sufficient for existence. I can go through all kinds of hypotheticals mathematically but those hypotheticals don't breathe life into the maths. So you're assuming some third factor that actualises the content of a mathematical model, one for which there is no evidence (or, at least, you're begging the question).

I'm inclined to agree with Tann on the maths/cognition distinction. The brain is very modular and complex, and while I can't tell you exactly which part of the brain is used for which processes, it's highly unlikely they're all the same. For instance, all things spatial can be reduced to maths, but you need spatial awareness at all times, even while doing math. The motor cortex is used to guide the pencil you use to complete your maths exam, and each movement is reducible to a mathematical model, but you don't need to stop thinking about maths in order to write down the maths you're thinking about.

All of the abstract higher level processing is in the cerebral hemisphere, including maths. But a lot of stuff that can be mathematically modeled is subcortical, and is stuff that many non-human animals are capable of (emotion, memory, hormonal nonsense etc.).

So I guess the question becomes "is all modeling of reality necessarily maths". Is the perceptual and predictive model that the dog uses to catch the thrown ball actually maths? To which my answer would be that it's interesting but probably no maybe? As far as I'm aware maths has a symbolic element and is characterised by an absolute level of precision (or the option to have it, yes people round numbers). Instead I'd say that these other brain structures enact processes parallel to maths without actually being maths. It's causal. The information enters the brain and is computed just like raw material enters a factory and comes out as ice-creams. While there is a model that explains how the factory/brain came to be effective at doing what it does, the thing that it does requires no additional maths. The blades are set to cut pieces at a particular length, ingredients are added based on the time a hose is open rather than weight, the wrapper is applied perfectly without anyone having thought about how this specific wrapper should fit the specific icecream. Individual components of the process are so far removed from the outcome that you might not recognise their function if viewed in isolation.

Guh sorry for ramble. Just woke up.

Super interesting topic, even if I disagree with your conclusions.
 
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