Enneagram Help.

[PmjPmj]

Hey all,

I've long believed myself to be a type 5w4, but I'm questioning that now. I'm also wondering to what extent (I'm guessing 'massively') our dominant cognitive functions (and subsequent, should they be pronounced) modify our Enneagram.

Any insights into my own?

I assumed that my '8-ish-ness' came from my growth, but now I'm not so sure.

- Definitely have an avarice around time and energy, but I'm generous to a fault in terms of money, etc. (as in, literally to a fault: financially, I have helped others out to my own detriment many times). I wonder if this (time/energy avarice) is 5, or being an introvert.

- I do worry that I'm operating on a deficit in knowledge, and like to be better informed before I launch into action... but I'm very slow at collecting data (as per the Socionics description of NiTe). Anyone watching my recent Mafia performances will also see that in spite of what I say, it doesn't always ring true: "I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO PLAY THIS GAME! FUCK YOU ALL! YOU'RE ALL SCUM! RARGH!"

- Accurate self-knowledge and self-perception came with a time and a great deal of effort (4 wing?)

- I am an observer... but I'm also Ni dominant, so - duh

- I am quite outspoken when the situation calls for it

- I have been known to be rather too blunt; I can quite happily call a spade a spade

- I'm not actually pro conflict, in spite of the above. Conflict, unless absolutely warranted, is typically avoided because it:

1) drags me into the moment (ugh)
2) drains my energy unnecessarily (ugh)
3) can cause (and has previously cause) irreparable damage to relationships... because I don't tend to hold back once someone decides they 'want to have ago' or demand the truth. I did seek to mitigate this for quite a while, but began to question why I should be responsible for the feelings of others. I realised that I shouldn't. Those who seek provocation...


Bullshit thread really. Just wondering if anyone is au fait enough with the enneagram to challenge me on some points, and perhaps get me to reframe my thinking.

For the record, my NiTe status is not up for debate: of this, I am 100% convinced. I've done lots of self-study over the past 6 years, and have been typed by some of the best in the field. So yeah.

Penny for your thoughts, my lovelies.

 

[Alias]

Well, I'm not much of an expert for your case, but Enneagram has always been weird for me. I used to think 5w4, but now I'm between 3w4 and 4w3. There's just not enough easily accessible information out there to look into the specifics of Enneagram. In your case, I guess you're still 5w4. It's a normal personality thing with NTs to be blunt/realistic/whatever, but your distaste for conflict kind of seems to go against 8, from my limited knowledge.

Long story short is I probably have no idea.

 

[PmjPmj]

Agree 100% about the lack of decent knowledge out there. I went to a good seminar on the Enneagram once. I think my notes are in the loft. I'll dig them out over the weekend and have a look at your type with you, if you fancy it?

 

[PmjPmj]

Also, laughing at how this thread came about. I was operating with the aid of 'cognitive enhancers', shall we say.

"THIS THING IS ON MY MIND I'D BEST POST IT QUICK. FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!"

Oh dear.

 

[Sinny91]

From what I've learned, I wouldn't focus on reconciling MBTI and Enneagram types.
It appears to me that some combinations are more likely than others, but all are possible.

You don't strike me as an 8.. But you do sometimes strike me as a Gut type.

What are your stackings?
http://similarminds.com/test.html

 

[PmjPmj]

The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...

Type 1 Orderliness |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||| 34%
Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 4 Individualism |||||||||| 38%
Type 5 Intellectualism |||||||||||||||| 66%
Type 6 Security Focus |||||||||||| 50%
Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||||| 42%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||||||| 66%
Type 9 Calmness |||||| 26%

type score type behavior motivation
5 16 I must be knowledgeable to survive.
8 16 I must be strong and in control to survive.
1 14 I must be orderly/planned to survive.
3 14 I must be impressive and attractive to survive.
6 12 I must be secure and safe to survive.
7 10 I must be fun and entertained to survive.
4 9 I must be unique/different to survive.
2 8 I must be helpful and caring to survive.
9 6 I must maintain peace/calm to survive.

Your main type is Type 5
Your variant stacking is spsosx
Your level of health is average

Your main type is which ever behavior you utilize most and/or prefer. Your variant reflects your scoring profile on all nine types: so = social variant (compliant, friendly), sx = sexual variant (assertive, intense), sp = self preservation variant (withdrawn, security seeking). For info on the flaws of the Enneagram system click here.
-------

Hmm.

 

[PmjPmj]

I can see 8 as a growth wing, but compared to INTP 5s I know, I am a shit 5. On the 'gathering of information' side of things, at least. On the 'probing the great mysteries of the universe/reality' scale, I'm right up there - it's my MO... but how much of that is Ni? I'm willing to wager quite a bit.

IDK. I'm a weird one.

When I'm in my zone, I'm indomitable like the 8 descriptions would have you believe. I'm at my best when (obvious statement incoming) I'm eating well, sleeping well and working out frequently. If I'm doing martial arts on top of that, wow. 8 all the way.

But I don't get much sleep. I eat like shit and I genuinely do not (no excuse here - I wish it fucking were) have the time to exercise, odd 10 minute blast on my dumbbells aside. Thus, I'm more of a 'wet lettuce' version of myself for the most part.

IDK. Thanks for your input guys. I guess it'll be one of those 'let's see how it plays out'. I think overall my identity has been harder to pin down because so much has been going on in my life, and I've been pushed out of my comfort zone time and time again. In the space of about 2-3 years I went from being a single, bedroom-dwelling gamer to a husband, father, manager, and so on.

Fuck it. Let's just say I'm an ENTJ 8.

^_^

(I wish >_>)

 

[viche]

Do you identify any with Phil Anselmo? http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=24526
Not over his daily habits, but in his views and attitudes towards life.
He's a rather obvious 8, albeit a sensor in MBTI.

 

[Sinny91]

If you had to choose between:

Type 5
Basic Fear: Being useless, helpless, or incapable
Basic Desire: To be capable and competent

Key Motivations: Want to possess knowledge, to understand the environment, to have everything figured out as a way of defending the self from threats from the environment.

Holy Idea: Omniscience
Vice: Avarice
Virtue: Detachment
Basic Drive: Conservation of Resources

or

Type 8
Basic Fear: Of being harmed or controlled by others
Basic Desire: To protect themselves (to be in control of their own life and destiny)

Key Motivations: Want to be self-reliant, to prove their strength and resist weakness, to be important in their world, to dominate the environment, and to stay in control of their situation.

Holy Idea: Innocence/Truth
Vice: Lust
Virtue: Magnamity
Basic Drive: Survival (edit: since this is the same as a 6's drive, I'd suggest that the basic drive for an 8 is securing resources?

?

Ha, not much difference between the two in this context, actually.

Simple litmus test: Do you have anger issues?

 

[PmjPmj]

Do you identify any with Phil Anselmo? http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=24526
Not over his daily habits, but in his views and attitudes towards life.
He's a rather obvious 8, albeit a sensor in MBTI.

I can't really tell from this. I don't have a clue who he is (but christ is his voice seductive - ha!) and he's a lot more 'stop / start' than I am, which I'm guessing is indicative of Ti (ESTP?) The way he makes his points though (eyes squint, 'heavy' gesticulations, a forceful 'this is the way it is' tone) - yes, I can relate to that.

If you had to choose between:

Type 5
Basic Fear: Being useless, helpless, or incapable
Basic Desire: To be capable and competent

Key Motivations: Want to possess knowledge, to understand the environment, to have everything figured out as a way of defending the self from threats from the environment.

Holy Idea: Omniscience
Vice: Avarice
Virtue: Detachment
Basic Drive: Conservation of Resources

or

Type 8
Basic Fear: Of being harmed or controlled by others
Basic Desire: To protect themselves (to be in control of their own life and destiny)

Key Motivations: Want to be self-reliant, to prove their strength and resist weakness, to be important in their world, to dominate the environment, and to stay in control of their situation.

Holy Idea: Innocence/Truth
Vice: Lust
Virtue: Magnamity
Basic Drive: Survival (edit: since this is the same as a 6's drive, I'd suggest that the basic drive for an 8 is securing resources?

?

Ha, not much difference between the two in this context, actually.

Simple litmus test: Do you have anger issues?

From the Type 5 section, I absolutely do want to be useful and competent - but how much overlap are we talking here? An NTs basic drive is for competency. In fact, in one assessment I was subjected to (FIRO B) it transpired that my drive for competence was leagues ahead of anything else. Inversely, my desire to be liked was left by the wayside, my justification being "I seek to do no harm; I am fair, I am kind. If a person decides they do not like me, they are well within their rights. So long as I haven't harmed them in any way, fuck 'em".

With avarice, I do try to get as much alone time as possible. I am a fan of solitude. I like to be by myself. Not necessarily to indulge pondering or pursue intellectual goals, but just to 'be'. I like my own company; I like my own space. For better or worse, I tend to see people as unwarranted distractions / inconveniences. I'm working on this, but my base level seems to be "This meatbag is in my way. I do not wish for this meatbag to be in my way. This meatbag is a waste of time and energy; move out of my way, or I will go through you". I do not like the additional noise and general commotion created by other individuals in 'my' environments. I'm quick to anger in public, too. So many people don't give a fuck about where they walk. Inconsiderate cunts everywhere. Rage.

I am rather detached too. Again, though - NT.

From the 8 section, yes - I do like to be in control. I don't seek to control others, mind... although I do like people to fall in line when I decide that it's go time. My wife (probably an 8!) tells me that I can be downright aggressive when I'm pursuing a goal. She said that you just have to get out of my way, or I'll mow you down. I think that's a fair assessment.

Basic fear rings very true, as does vice I suppose.

Sorry, this quickly descended into a shitpost because I was interrupted THREE FUCKING TIMES, and now I have shit to do.

As for your question: yes. I have historically had issues with anger. Anger is about the only emotion I do well. I'm *a lot* more patient now I'm older; my fuse is far longer, but even now I can and do break shit when enough is enough. As a kid I was always wrecking things that pissed me off because they caused me problems due to ineffectiveness / whatever. These days you can push, and push, and push, and p- "FUCK!" *boom*. Oh look. There's a nice dent in the fridge and the internal light no longer works. But it's ok. I'm fine now - I just needed to beat the shit out of something.

 

[PmjPmj]

Heh, I've been reading some feedback I had via PM on a video I uploaded back in 2012. Both Architect and Auburn conclude that I'm an ENTJ, because Te. Te everywhere!

At the time, I was under the impression that I was an INFJ, and so thanked them for their input (it was very much appreciated) but went on thinking I used Fe (?!)

... I wonder if I'm just a dysfunctional E, who likes to be the master and commander of his own domain to such an extent that I actually look I, because fuck the world and its many disappointments.

Long shot maybe, but interesting to contemplate.

 

[PmjPmj]

Oh, fucking hell:

http://www.preludecharacteranalysis.com/types/intj/vs/entj

... you think you have this shit nailed...

I've been through the Step II, III, spoken at length with so many type pros I've lost count. Yet here I am, now wondering if I've massively fucked up and all this time, I've just been a disgruntled ENTJ. So, so much of the linked analysis screams ENTJ at me.

 

[Sinny91]

Ha, okay.. Time to refer to Character & Neurosis

Type 5
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-f...naranjos-character-neurosis-ennea-type-v.html

Type 8
http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-f...ranjos-character-neurosis-type-8-chapter.html

If you can't choose between these, you're just not trying hard enough. 

As a side note, I've been haunting PerC (Personality Cafe) the last few days, and I've found amusement in the fact that 60-70% of the old self typed Ennea 8's all ended up correctly typing themselves as something else farther down the line. That's a hell lot of mistyping.

I've never mistyped myself.. and I roll my eye balls at those who do, I don't see how there's room for confusion.

Type 8 from Character and Neurosis:

“In his behavior towards others he is openly arrogant, often rude and offensive, although sometime this is covered with a thin veneer of civil politeness. In subtle and gross ways, with or without realizing it, he humiliates others and exploits them. He may use women for the satisfaction of his sexual needs with utter disregard for their feelings. With a seemingly naive egocentricity, he will use people as a means to an end. He frequently makes and maintains contacts exclusively on the basis of their serving his needs for triumph: people he can use as stepping stones in his career, influential women he can conquer and subdue, followers who give him blind recognition and augment his power. He is a past master in frustrating others —frustrating their small and big hopes, their needs for attention,reassurance, time, company, enjoyment. When others demonstrate against such treatment it is their neurotic sensitivity that makes them react this way.” Another expression of his vindictiveness, according to Horney, is that “he feels entitled both to having his neurotic needs implicitly respected and to being permitted his utter disregard of others’ needs or wishes. He feels entitled for instance to the unabridged expression of his unfavorable observations and criticisms but feels equally entitled never to be criticized himself.”

Like, boom! shove your fist through to my guts, pull em out and hang me with em!

 

[PmjPmj]

Fuck, that's a lot of text

I'll get back to you on that one. Cheers.

Oh, and I spent a good few years on PerC. It's mistype central.

 

[viche]

Ha, okay.. Time to refer to Character & Neurosis

Type 5 http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-f...naranjos-character-neurosis-ennea-type-v.html

Type 8 http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-f...ranjos-character-neurosis-type-8-chapter.html

If you can't choose between these, you're just not trying hard enough. 

As a side note, I've been haunting PerC (Personality Cafe) the last few days, and I've found amusement in the fact that 60-70% of the old self typed Ennea 8's all ended up correctly typing themselves as something else farther down the line. That's a hell lot of mistyping.

I've been lurking on some enneagram forums and it does look like 2/3rds people mistype themselves at their first go at the Enneagram and end up changing their enneatype down the road.

Sixes and Sevens typing into Eights seems to be the most common mistyping. Some 7w8s and 6s continue holding onto their 8 self-typing very tightly, even when it becomes apparent to everyone else that they aren't that type.

Claudio Naranjo has mentioned that 8s are actually very rare in typology communities. With so many mistypes from other types, and the number of actual 8s present being very low, it seems like few people have an understanding of what this type is like.

Naranjos' lecture on type 8 starts at 19:40:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmWKFFCGBPc

 

[Sinny91]

Cheers for the vid links, Viche.

I like this chick - "The Archetypes of Sucky-ness"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB8lQo1SW7I

 

[Sinny91]

I think you're right.. I don't think you're a 5 core...

Neurosis of the 5 is inherent detachment, even from the self.
You seem a lot of things PMJ, but detached from self is not one of them.
Tberg's a really good example of a 5, I think.

UNLESS.. You are a 5, well on your way to 8th growth, like you said.

I think your core should score higher than 66%, regardless... I think you're being weird with your tests, or the tests are being weird with you.

If 9 weren't so low, I'd be suggesting 9w1 or 1w9.

I vote that you fucked the up the test/s.. somewhere.

...

Anyway, you've hurt my head thanks xD

 

[PmjPmj]

Lots of boring words were here.

 

[Sinny91]

Oi, I want answers!!

Which is your neurosis? lol

Anyway, if that quote on 8's I offered earlier didn't ring true, you're not an 8.
From my POV.

It actually really annoys me that 8's seem to get the least attention... Like in the video I linked above..

Anyway, I don't think I try to dominate people... Unless their in my space, then they can fuck right off, domination is game.

 

[PmjPmj]

Oi, I want answers!!

Which is your neurosis? lol

A cursory glance tells me 5, but I'll have a proper look in work tomorrow. Busy weekend here :< it's the wife's birthday tomorrow, so I'm being descended upon by multiple Spaniards for 'celebrations'.

Today, FML.

Fortunately, I have aid

 

[PmjPmj]

Happy times... and as an aside:

I knew the wife was an ENTJ, but we've just had her Step II done by one of the best practitioners in the business. ENTJ confirmed.

INTJ / ENTJ pairing.

... we'll remember you guys when we rule the world

 

[Sinny91]

Can I get in on this world domination somehow?

5 makes sense.. you're a .. well developed personality

 

[PmjPmj]

I wish :/

BTW, wife is 100% an 8. I don't even need to subject her to any analysis

 

[Reluctantly]

This was a good book I used to have - Character and Neurosis: An Integrative View

As a clinical psychologist/psychiatrist, he went off his vast experience with different patients to delineate the enneagram types in a much clearer and scientific manner by looking at their neurosis. It's kind of a negative way of looking at people, but probably also the most insightful in that regard.

Might want to look at it, if you're willing to spend some money on it.

 

[PmjPmj]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JVX0BXxj2Q&feature=em-uploademail

I swear to fuck that I sound 100% like a repressed ENTJ. The descriptions (the more in depth ones) often describe me far better than the INTJ variants... yet I seem to have a clear preference for introversion.

But do I, or is it just a learned thing? Fact is, I was fucking giga-social back in my youth.

Bleh.

 

[PmjPmj]

http://jupiter-34.appspot.com/

Test complete! (restart)
47% ENTJ
19% INTJ
15% ENTP
5% ESTJ
3% ENFJ

That's it, then.

Fuck all y'all. I'm officially (a piss poor example of) the best type ever.

*Flips everyone off*

*Somersaults into his Ferrari and speeds off into the sunset*

 

[Bad Itch]

?!

31%*INTP
18%*INFP
15%*ENFP
11%*ISFP
8%*ENTP

 

[PmjPmj]

Seems legit.

 

[Sinny91]

http://jupiter-34.appspot.com/

Test complete! (restart)
47% ENTJ
19% INTJ
15% ENTP
5% ESTJ
3% ENFJ

That's it, then.

Fuck all y'all. I'm officially (a piss poor example of) the best type ever.

*Flips everyone off*

*Somersaults into his Ferrari and speeds off into the sunset*

I bet that's not your final answer down the line.

 

[PmjPmj]

Sorry, what? I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

*Continues to bathe in ENTJ glory*

I'm not sure tbh. I was chatting with a close friend today (Dan) and making a case. We agreed that there is a possibility that I'm an E. As has been stated many times, E does not = social butterfly just as I does not = shy recluse. There are SO many reasons E can look I and vice versa.

I'm going to chat with someone who knows their shit. Soon.

Right now I feel like it could go either way. Either I've had everything wrong for the past few years, OR the six week break / drugs have supercharged me

 

[Sinny91]

I suppose time will tell.

 

[PmjPmj]

TBH, the more I read the more I realise that TeNi makes more sense than NiTe. Apparently, ENTJs tend to jump in feet first and adapt on the fly; INTJs tend to plan first and then act with precision. I'm definitely the former.

I now realise that at my old job, my colleague was probably an INTJ. He'd sit on his arse and plan for fucking ages, and I'd just get up and get the job done. Admittedly he would almost always work out a more efficient route to the goal, but by the time he had it was too late. I'd nailed that shit all over the place.

:/

Wildcard: I'm an ISFP.

D:

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I'm probably ENTJ and I'm a social recluse.

INTJ seems to fit for you from what I can see. You certainly seem to know yourself better than I know myself.

Try and see what your inferior function is maybe.

I think Se seems like your inferior function and I would have sooner considered INFJ for you (which I did consider, however not based on much).

I thought you were INFJ when I heard you speak, however that may just be the accent which sounded Fe to me.

INFJ seems unlikely to consider themself ENTJ or E8. So INTJ sounds the most likely option.

Will get back to you if I build a stronger case.

 

[PmjPmj]

I actually thought I was an INFJ for a while but my Fe is terrible.

I'm aware of group dynamics and how words and actions may affect people, but truth be told I'm often incorrect in my assumptions. Te is very apparent in me. Whilst polite and even charming at times (so I'm told) I'll always call a spade a spade if the situation warrants it.

I'm looking more at the TeNi / NiTe dynamics rather than sociability and stuff like that.

As for my inferior... yeah, my Se is bad - but my Fi seems to be pretty sensitive too. I've cut people out of my life for making baseless negative assumtions about me and, like an ENTJ, I'm prone to explosive anger rather than emotional suppression.

Also, going back to the Ni and Te dynamics, I tend to look briefly and leap, rather than extensively analyse and execute with precision. I refine the process on the go. In work, I'm very much a 'get shit done > action stations' person. Contrast that with my INTJ colleague who would ''''waste time'''' planning.

Sorry for typos. On phone. iPhone 6 Vs my spade hands = lol.

 

[Sinny91]

I'm aware of group dynamics and how words and actions may affect people, but truth be told I'm often incorrect in my assumptions. Te is very apparent in me. Whilst polite and even charming at times (so I'm told) I'll always call a spade a spade if the situation warrants it.

Is Dan ever polite and charming at times but then blunt at others? Perhaps even simultaneously? I don't see how the parameters you're using only solely relate to Te.

I'm looking more at the TeNi / NiTe dynamics rather than sociability and stuff like that.

As for my inferior... yeah, my Se is bad - but my Fi seems to be pretty sensitive too. I've cut people out of my life for making baseless negative assumtions about me and, like an ENTJ, I'm prone to explosive anger rather than emotional suppression.

Also, going back to the Ni and Te dynamics, I tend to look briefly and leap, rather than extensively analyse and execute with precision. I refine the process on the go. In work, I'm very much a 'get shit done > action stations' person. Contrast that with my INTJ colleague who would ''''waste time'''' planning.

Sorry for typos. On phone. iPhone 6 Vs my spade hands = lol.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I actually thought I was an INFJ for a while but my Fe is terrible.

I'm aware of group dynamics and how words and actions may affect people, but truth be told I'm often incorrect in my assumptions. Te is very apparent in me. Whilst polite and even charming at times (so I'm told) I'll always call a spade a spade if the situation warrants it.

This fits me quite well too, I think.

I'm still sorting out a lot of issues regarding my own type, and how to type people in general. I seem to change my self-typing every few days.

Even since I posted that last post, my level of confidence that I would be ENTJ has dropped a lot.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

89% INFP
4% ENFP
2% INTP
2% ISFP
1% ENTP

Occam's Razor... INFP has always been the simplest explanation.

Pardon talking about myself in your thread.

 

[PmjPmj]

Is Dan ever polite and charming at times but then blunt at others? Perhaps even simultaneously? I don't see how the parameters you're using only solely relate to Te.

Stop invalidating my points by countering with valid points. I'm right, ergo fuck off.

;(

Occam's Razor... INFP has always been the simplest explanation.

Pardon talking about myself in your thread.

Talk away!

Dominant Fi should be fairly easy to identify though, right?

 

[Sinny91]

Stop invalidating my points by countering with valid points. I'm right, ergo fuck off.

 

[PmjPmj]

So, I spoke to my MBTI friend who is fucking amazeballs.

She listened to me for a while, smirking. Then (in a very professional manner) told me to stop being a stupid cunt.

I just wanted to be an ENTJ, guys. I wasn't asking for much.

;____;

 

[Sinny91]

Lol.

Told you so.

 

[PmjPmj]

I'm being an ENTJ anyway. Fuck the rules.

\m/

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Talk away!

Dominant Fi should be fairly easy to identify though, right?

I am terrible at MBTI lol.

Are any cognitive functions easy to identify through internet text?

I try to figure out how to identify them, I made some theory, however it may not work.

My Ne should be easy to identify though, right?

Like... all my wordplay and things like that.

Also, being silent irl and talkative online would be quite Fi, wouldn't it?

You've seen me one time and I was putting on somewhat of a performance, given what I believed the purpose of the call to be... so I was probably less INFP-ish than would be expected so I wouldn't base anything on that. :P

So yeah. Fi may or may not be easy to identify since it is an introvert function... those are more hidden from people right, which is why there J/P dichotomy is how it is in MBTI?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I thought this article was interesting if not insightful:

A Directional Theory of the Enneagram
http://www.9types.com/writeup/Theory20.htm

Spoiler

Type 1: the confronting ideal-seeker. -/0

The 1’s compulsion moves against others on the surface, but away from others underneath. This explains how the 1 may outwardly seem quite efficient and engaged, while underneath they are thinking more about some ideal world that they are trying to create in the long term. Ideals are descriptions of best possible worlds, and the 1’s ideals are filtered through their confronting exterior, which is proactive and practical. Hence, their ideals are active and practical, involving rules, principles, morality, truth and justice. Like all the inspiration-seekers, the 1’s ideals are essentially infinite. Everything, no matter how good, orderly, or just, can always be better, more orderly and more just. Like all the ideal-seekers, the average 1 can become extremely frustrated, because the world chronically falls short of the ideal. Although 1s could relax by setting reasonable limits, they resist this because they can’t bear the thought that their ideals, the things they most live for, might be unattainable.

Type 2: the embracing power-seeker. +/-

The 2’s compulsion moves toward others on the surface, but against them underneath. This explains how average 2s can be warm, helpful, and even seductive on the outside, while harboring a hidden agenda and a strong will underneath. This willpower is masked by their embracing exterior; hence, they seek power through other people, rather than through direct force. The 2 may befriend powerful people, exerting influence as the "power behind the throne". All power-seekers have a strong sense of ownership, which often comes across as a possessive tendency. The 2’s possessiveness applies to people, analogous to the 5’s possession of information (hoarding), or the 8’s possession of physical resources (territorialism). The 2 often gets particular credit for the universal human need to be loved. This may be because 2’s use their inner will and exterior charm to make people love them, thus making their desire for love more noticeable than in other types.

Type 3: confronting approval-seeker. -/+

The 3’s surface compulsion moves against people, while the underlying compulsion moves toward people. This explains why the 3 seems pushy and competitive, while underneath they paradoxically want the approval of others. These conflicting surface and deep compulsions make the average 3 seem deceptive, as they claim to be a bold, aggressive leader, while denying the deeper compulsion that makes them follow the leadership of the society around them. This is analogous to the 2, who is deceptive in the other direction – the average 2 claims to only be helping others, while denying the aggressive motives hidden underneath.

Type 4: the withdrawn ideal-seeker. 0/0

The 4’s surface and deep compulsions both move away from the environment, making them the most introspective, individualistic type of all. This doubly-withdrawn compulsion gives the 4 an unusual freedom; they are psychologically less bound by the real-world constraints that other types feel. This freedom makes them highly original and creative, and highly attuned to the emotional nuances that other types block out in order to deal with practical life. However, this freedom also gives rise to the average 4’s self-absorption and alienation from ordinary life. Like the other ideal-seekers, the 4 seeks a utopian ideal that makes reality forever seem inadequate. All the ideal-seekers feel a chronic sense of "something missing", which in the 4 applies to their inner life. The 4’s ideals are withdrawn and intensely personal, making the 4 the romantic idealist as opposed to the 1’s practical idealism.

Type 5: the withdrawn power-seeker. 0/-

The 5 moves away from others on the surface, but against others underneath. Hence, average 5s may seem apathetic and laconic on the surface, but underneath they are not as detached as they act. The power-seeking drive seeks control, and is fearful of being overwhelmed and losing control. The withdrawn types by definition conserve physical energy, and so 5s prefer intellectual or strategic endeavors over active labor. Like all power-seekers, the 5 often acquires a "sphere" of influence and a strong sense of owning this sphere. The 5’s sphere is usually mental, as opposed to the 2’s social sphere and the 8’s worldly sphere.

Type 6: the compliant (embracing) alignment-seeker. +/+

The 6’s surface and deep compulsions both move toward others. This doubly-embracing nature makes 6s more attached to their surroundings than any other type. Unfortunately, sooner or later 6s attach to a person or organization who is selfish, incompetent, malicious, or neglectful. When the 6 realizes they have done this, they often feel betrayed and afraid of their own instincts. Because their own trusting nature led to being hurt, they may develop defense techniques to mask their own compliance. Skeptical thinking, counterphobic lashing out, are examples of type 6 tactics which had their root in their doubly-compliant drives.

Type 7: the embracing ideal-seeker. +/0

The 7 embraces the world on the surface, but moves away from it underneath. So while the 7 seems focused on enjoying the real world, their mind is actually attending to a glorious fantasy of how things could be even better. Like the 1 and 4, the 7’s unbounded fantasies make the real world seem forever inadequate by comparison, leading to a chronic feeling of "something missing", or in the 7’s case, of having "missed out" on something. However, the 7’s disappointments are often hidden behind their embracing exterior, which has a large capacity for positive, appreciative emotions. Like the other ideal-seekers, the 7 is satisfied only with the best of whatever they become interested in. However, because they have so many positive feelings for so many things, they may start to define "best" in terms of quantity rather than quality. The 7’s inspiration-seeking qualities are under-recognized, because many view the 7 as a glutton, seeking merely to consume everything in sight. However, the 7’s higher aspirations are evident in creations such as Mozart’s extraordinary music, or the "Camelot" ideals and lunar mission inspired by President Kennedy.

Type 8: the confronting power-seeker. -/-

The 8 moves against others in both their surface and deep compulsions, hence is the most aggressive type overall. The power-seeking compulsion is hence most obvious in the 8, with their willpower, self-reliance, and possessive tendencies quite evident to others. Also, all the power-seeking types tend to acquire a "sphere of influence", and in the 8’s case, this sphere tends to be physical and worldly, unlike the 5’s intellectual sphere and the 2’s social sphere. The terms "aggressive" and "moving against" often carry hostile connotations which really only apply to unhealthy or average 8s. In healthier states, the 8’s doubly-aggressive compulsion makes them particularly able to rise above incredible obstacles, giving them an unusual ability to acquire a heroic stature.

Type 9: the withdrawn approval-seeker. 0/+

The 9 moves away from others on the surface, but toward others underneath. Hence, the 9 is caught between wanting to detach from others while still wanting to identify with others in the long term. Their habitual solution is to withdraw in non-threatening ways, to allow themselves to reconnect later. Average 9s seem calm on the surface, but their underlying feelings resonate with the atmosphere that surrounds them, making 9s fairly sensitive to the emotional states of people around them. Like the 3 and 6, the 9 is prone to the mistake of unquestioningly taking on the values of others around them. In the 9, this behavior often takes the form of passive acquiescence.

@Sinny since you've posted here as well I was wondering if you ever considered E1 for selftype?